Guild Wars 2

Ryuujin.8236:

Angriff.1935:

One again, the solution is easy:
-Make Time Warp a channeled skill. You interrupt the mesmer, you stop Time Warp.
-Make it centered around the Mesmer. The mesmer must risk their own safety to grant a benefit to their team. In a good team, the mesmer will have support, and suffer little to no consequence.

And how exactly is this meant to be any use to a solo PvE mesmer, if he can have quickness just as long as he doesn’t actually cast anything? ¬_¬

Remember; for whatever reason anet has decided no PvE/PvP split for mezzie so whatever strategies emerge here have got to remain useful in story mode too (A part of the game where Mesmer is already one of the weakest classes)

Oh, yes, I only implied it in my earlier post. I do suggest it is split. It’s fine for PvE and WvW. It’s mostly only tPvP where it’s abused.

WvW offers alot more space to move around in and there are no small points you need to hold, so Time Warp is actually pretty situationally effective. Making effective use of it really almost requires a bottleneck.

In PvE, there’s no reason to change it. Theres much less possibility to abuse it, and even so, the ability to abuse it is hampered by spawn timers and HP thresholds on bosses.

Some of these solutions being offered sound a lot better in theory than it does on paper. The fact that someone said that engi grenadier is a counter is frankly hilarious. The size of time is large enough that someone can easily dodge grenades from 1500 range while remaining in the time warp.

Angriff.1935:

Even if it were true that the ONLY reason people bring mesmer is for Time Warp, that must be one insanely good reason.

The fact of the matter is that Time Warp right now is a bonus. A “no risk” fire and forget(and abuse) button to turn just about any fight in the caster’s favor. Mesmers actually operate just fine without Time Warp. Notice how long the CD on Time Warp is? Most of the time Mesmers aren’t even using it and they’re STILL considered by many to be OP.

I would like to hear of all these elites that other classes have that can “turn the tide of battle.” At best those other elites are highly situational, some of which are COMBINED with Time Warp and abused.

All elites are no risk, and none are fire and forget.

All of the below have the ability to completely turn around a losing battle.

Tome of Courage – Can heal the entire party to full health. Basically, massive burst of healing and support. Doesn’t need much coordination. Things get bad, use it.
Battle Standard – Revives and grants three powerful boons to all allies. Basically, massive burst of boons. Doesn’t require much coordination. Things get bad or need an extra edge, use it.
Supply Crate – Heals, CCs, distracts, and does damage. Basically, a massive burst of everything. Requires some coordination to get the best use of, but still works as a good “oh kitten” to turn the tide.
Entangle – Lengthy CC. Basically, a massive burst of CC. Requires some coordination to get the best out of. Rarely a waste when used.
Thieves Guild – two powerful allies that can’t be ignored by the opponent. Basically, a massive burst of support. Requires no coordination. Use it when you want to win.
Tornado – Position dominance and CC. Basically, a get your * out of my way button. Requires little coordination. Just let your teammates know that you’re going to clear the area.
Time Warp – Speeds up skills for 10 seconds. Basically, a massive burst of damage. Helpful on other skills, if they are not on recharge. Requires the most coordination to use effectively. Can’t just be placed anywhere. Has to be placed at the right place (where all your kittens are standing) at the right time (when your kittens have their skills ready).
Lich Form – Necro on steriods. Requires little coordination.

All of the above are no risk, can turn the tide, and maybe a few can be fire-and-forget (Thieves Guild). However, TW is not fire-and-forget. Unless you have a completely different definition of that. Mesmers don’t need to be punished just because you don’t like them.

How to solve Time Warp, keep it useful and make it “fair”:

1) Keep it’s duration as is
2) Make all allied team players within its AOE subject to +50% incoming damage TO THEMSELVES
3) Disable healing within time warp AOE for all ALLIED team players

Problem solved.

/edited for the special people who don’t “get it”

vitigis.4160:

How to solve Time Warp, keep it useful and make it “fair”:

1) Keep it’s duration as is
2) Make all team players within its AOE subject to +50% incoming damage
3) Disable healing within time warp AOE for all team players

Problem solved.

Hi, I’m a backstab thief. I click backstab, and with 50% increased damage and 100% crit chance, I am literally able to jib half the classes in the game in a single skill for no initiative. I don’t even need to combo anymore. I just click backstab and they die whenever timewarp is up.

And then I can cloak&Dagger and kill another. And another after that.

Or I’m a warrior with endure pain. Guess what, I have MORE than enough time to kill two or more people before endure pain wears off.

Or I’m an allied guardian with the healing tome. I’m now pointless.

You’re basically asking for timewarp to instantly kill everyone the mesmer uses it on. How about we try countering it first (Hint, it’s completely possible, and many a counter that doesn’t require a mesmer has been suggested. Engineers can literaly barrage them from out of range of anyone in timewarp at their leisure. Endure pain + stance duration is half the duration of a warrior wading in and just chopping them up when they have nowhere to run.

It. Is. Not. Broken.

It is strong, yes. So are a few other elites. Mesmer is just the QQ magnet. And nerfing it directly buffs bunker builds. And further gimps a class that takes a long time to come into its own in PvE.

Time warp is fine. Nobody builds to counter it. Hell, even just popping swiftness and grabbing another point wastes timewarp outright, you HAVE to stand and fight for it to be worth it for them.

DaShi.1368:

Angriff.1935:

Even if it were true that the ONLY reason people bring mesmer is for Time Warp, that must be one insanely good reason.

The fact of the matter is that Time Warp right now is a bonus. A “no risk” fire and forget(and abuse) button to turn just about any fight in the caster’s favor. Mesmers actually operate just fine without Time Warp. Notice how long the CD on Time Warp is? Most of the time Mesmers aren’t even using it and they’re STILL considered by many to be OP.

I would like to hear of all these elites that other classes have that can “turn the tide of battle.” At best those other elites are highly situational, some of which are COMBINED with Time Warp and abused.

All elites are no risk, and none are fire and forget.

All of the below have the ability to completely turn around a losing battle.

Tome of Courage – Can heal the entire party to full health. Basically, massive burst of healing and support. Doesn’t need much coordination. Things get bad, use it.
Battle Standard – Revives and grants three powerful boons to all allies. Basically, massive burst of boons. Doesn’t require much coordination. Things get bad or need an extra edge, use it.
Supply Crate – Heals, CCs, distracts, and does damage. Basically, a massive burst of everything. Requires some coordination to get the best use of, but still works as a good “oh kitten” to turn the tide.
Entangle – Lengthy CC. Basically, a massive burst of CC. Requires some coordination to get the best out of. Rarely a waste when used.
Thieves Guild – two powerful allies that can’t be ignored by the opponent. Basically, a massive burst of support. Requires no coordination. Use it when you want to win.
Tornado – Position dominance and CC. Basically, a get your * out of my way button. Requires little coordination. Just let your teammates know that you’re going to clear the area.
Time Warp – Speeds up skills for 10 seconds. Basically, a massive burst of damage. Helpful on other skills, if they are not on recharge. Requires the most coordination to use effectively. Can’t just be placed anywhere. Has to be placed at the right place (where all your kittens are standing) at the right time (when your kittens have their skills ready).
Lich Form – Necro on steriods. Requires little coordination.

All of the above are no risk, can turn the tide, and maybe a few can be fire-and-forget (Thieves Guild). However, TW is not fire-and-forget. Unless you have a completely different definition of that. Mesmers don’t need to be punished just because you don’t like them.

This man just gave the definition of an elite skill!!! NO RISK and CAN TURN THE TIDE!!!! Dun dun dun… All of these are possibly too OP if Timewarp gets nerfed I suggest a supply drop nerf so that I can take out an engineer without getting killed when he does it. Or the whining can just stop all together.

DaShi.1368:

Angriff.1935:

Even if it were true that the ONLY reason people bring mesmer is for Time Warp, that must be one insanely good reason.

The fact of the matter is that Time Warp right now is a bonus. A “no risk” fire and forget(and abuse) button to turn just about any fight in the caster’s favor. Mesmers actually operate just fine without Time Warp. Notice how long the CD on Time Warp is? Most of the time Mesmers aren’t even using it and they’re STILL considered by many to be OP.

I would like to hear of all these elites that other classes have that can “turn the tide of battle.” At best those other elites are highly situational, some of which are COMBINED with Time Warp and abused.

All elites are no risk, and none are fire and forget.

All of the below have the ability to completely turn around a losing battle.

Tome of Courage – Can heal the entire party to full health. Basically, massive burst of healing and support. Doesn’t need much coordination. Things get bad, use it.
Battle Standard – Revives and grants three powerful boons to all allies. Basically, massive burst of boons. Doesn’t require much coordination. Things get bad or need an extra edge, use it.
Supply Crate – Heals, CCs, distracts, and does damage. Basically, a massive burst of everything. Requires some coordination to get the best use of, but still works as a good “oh kitten” to turn the tide.
Entangle – Lengthy CC. Basically, a massive burst of CC. Requires some coordination to get the best out of. Rarely a waste when used.
Thieves Guild – two powerful allies that can’t be ignored by the opponent. Basically, a massive burst of support. Requires no coordination. Use it when you want to win.
Tornado – Position dominance and CC. Basically, a get your * out of my way button. Requires little coordination. Just let your teammates know that you’re going to clear the area.
Time Warp – Speeds up skills for 10 seconds. Basically, a massive burst of damage. Helpful on other skills, if they are not on recharge. Requires the most coordination to use effectively. Can’t just be placed anywhere. Has to be placed at the right place (where all your kittens are standing) at the right time (when your kittens have their skills ready).
Lich Form – Necro on steriods. Requires little coordination.

All of the above are no risk, can turn the tide, and maybe a few can be fire-and-forget (Thieves Guild). However, TW is not fire-and-forget. Unless you have a completely different definition of that. Mesmers don’t need to be punished just because you don’t like them.

Not a single one (aside from tome of courage’s full heal which has a wopping 4 second cast time, cut in half by time warp lolol) has the same scaling effect on large scale (and thereby more important) team fights.

Did you just skip all of what he said. These were all things that can help YOUR TEAM…. Except maybe lich form but still… that’s just cool. Imagine a mesmer/engi team combo lololol two time warps and 3 supply crates… hahaha JUST AWESOME… But lets take it a step further… Do a warrior/guardian/Thief/Engi/Ranger Scenario… Ranger drops his elite entangle… Followed by the engineers supply drop… Oh dang ranger went down…. Here comes battle standard…. Now that people have boons the guardian can use tome of courage while being protected by his four other allies that all just got boons from the warrior and so on…. Wow… Great scenario of how elites can change a battle… Also just using one of these elites like supply drop on an unprepared enemy has a great effect.

yes. Except that entangle and supply drop can be blinded or dodged, warbanner pigeon holes a warrior into being absolutely worthless outside of bunkering (lol bunker warriors) because of signet of rage and their lack of swiftness, thieves guild progressively gets worse (along with supply drop and the guardian’s full heal) until it becomes worthless in large-scale team fights and tornado is currently bugged out have the wearer take a bajillion ticks of confusion while they’re in that form.

The problem is time warp and creates too large of an incentive to take a mesmer in conjunction with portal. Portal in and of itself is pretty large, too.

I have little beef with every other elite. 10 seconds of AoE quickness with such a large radius and drop range as well as the short cast time is game changing.

An Actual Reasonable Solution:

Pull Time Warp from sPvP.
Make Null Field an elite.

At least it’ll give mesmers an extra utility slot to fill. (Null Field and Portal seem to be kitten near required as of late, that’s one utility slot left for personal preference at the moment)

IF that be the case they should make it so that all AOE’s can be blinded/dodged… Or is supply drop target based? An interesting solution would be to change time warp to behave how it does underwater… Like many have suggested it already centers it on the mesmer… IT HAS A CAST TIME 2 seconds I believe… Would that make you people happy?

I’m gonna quote myself here

At best those other elites are highly situational, some of which are COMBINED with Time Warp and abused.

Anyways, I have a different idea for Time Warp.

Turn it into a “transform” skill. Make it work almost exactly like Plague Form for Necro. They could use the animation for the underwater skill “Vortex”

Mesmer enters a Time Warp and gains protection

You have 3 skills which you can pulse in AoE. Maybe they could look like this
-Haste for 1 second
-Chilled for 1 second
-X stacks of Confusion for Y seconds

I favor this a bit to my earlier suggestion, because it gives a bit more flexibility and I think makes it more interesting to use. Not only that, but it can be used in other ways than just granting haste for 10 seconds. The mesmer can still be interrupted, but it wont make the Time Warp end early, so it’s not so risky

It has a 1/4 of a second of a cast time. Shorter than an auto attack. No, entangle and supply drop are not targeted.

And it wouldn’t help very much to have it centered on the mesmer because everyone is gonna run from it anyways. It’s too kittening big.

Ostricheggs.3742:

It has a 1/4 of a second of a cast time. Shorter than an auto attack. No, entangle and supply drop are not targeted.

And it wouldn’t help very much to have it centered on the mesmer because everyone is gonna run from it anyways. It’s too kittening big.

That was something that someone else had already suggested in this thread cant remember who exactly. But I think it would be relatively easy for them to switch something like that since it is already programmed to happen that way underwater…

jportell.2197:

Ostricheggs.3742:

It has a 1/4 of a second of a cast time. Shorter than an auto attack. No, entangle and supply drop are not targeted.

And it wouldn’t help very much to have it centered on the mesmer because everyone is gonna run from it anyways. It’s too kittening big.

That was something that someone else had already suggested in this thread cant remember who exactly. But I think it would be relatively easy for them to switch something like that since it is already programmed to happen that way underwater…

And I use it underwater and the cast time is the same as mass invis and the animation is the same.

i love how 90% of the players on this post are totally ignoring the fact that in spvp and tpvp if a mesmer even brings time warp to the table. (Which is totally kittened because MI is better in every way shape or form.) its still on a 210 second cooldown time. that is only enough for 2 uses or 3 per game and 3 is pushing it really pushing it. because most games dont last long if your up against a good team or your team is good and know wat thier doing.

You guys cry more for nerfs more and more. and once this class gets nerfed to the point of not even bieng pvp viable. people will just move on to the next flavor of the month class. in that case it will be thief. and if you cry out for more nerfs. next Ele. and next lets keep it comming frenzy HB warriors. and next lets keep it comming. super duper beefed up bunker guardians. i can keep going all day x.x soon you mine aswell just shut this game down. This thread has become nothing but a QQ about how your getting wrecked period by mesmers. which is easier to counter than a thief x.x And if the DEVs actually listen.. i feel sorry for this game. It mine aswell have not come out at all. No smart person listens to nothing by cry babies and whiners x.×. You die in WvW and spvp all the same take it like a man and respawn. Sure i get killed by a thief in 2 seconds you dont see me comming on the forums crying out for nerfs. I freakin respawn find that same thief who killed me and kill him just as easily. fragile little things they are.

I win 90% of my 1v1s with mesmers. It comes down to if I kitten up or not. This isn’t about getting “wrecked” by mesmers, it’s about time warp.

TIme warp is on a similar cooldown to most elites as well with only 30 seconds more than supply crate and 30 seconds LESS than the ranger’s spirit and warbanner.

It is the most powerful elite in the game. Stop resorting to insults and ridiculousness.

edited my original post

1) Keep it’s duration as is
2) Make all allied team players within its AOE subject to +50% incoming damage TO THEMSELVES
3) Disable healing within time warp AOE for all ALLIED team players

Lordryux.9785:

i love how 90% of the players on this post are totally ignoring the fact that in spvp and tpvp if a mesmer even brings time warp to the table. (Which is totally kittened because MI is better in every way shape or form.) its still on a 210 second cooldown time. that is only enough for 2 uses or 3 per game and 3 is pushing it really pushing it. because most games dont last long if your up against a good team or your team is good and know wat thier doing.

By saying you should take mass invisibility over time warp you have lost any credibility you might have had in this thread.

Seether.7285:

Lordryux.9785:

i love how 90% of the players on this post are totally ignoring the fact that in spvp and tpvp if a mesmer even brings time warp to the table. (Which is totally kittened because MI is better in every way shape or form.) its still on a 210 second cooldown time. that is only enough for 2 uses or 3 per game and 3 is pushing it really pushing it. because most games dont last long if your up against a good team or your team is good and know wat thier doing.

By saying you should take mass invisibility over time warp you have lost any credibility you might have had in this thread.

All this guy does is insult the credibility of people who disagree with him. Lol, it’s quite funny. This is clearly a mesmer witch hunt. Stop trying to nerf mes. Set your sights on something new that you can’t kill.

Seether.7285:

Lordryux.9785:

i love how 90% of the players on this post are totally ignoring the fact that in spvp and tpvp if a mesmer even brings time warp to the table. (Which is totally kittened because MI is better in every way shape or form.) its still on a 210 second cooldown time. that is only enough for 2 uses or 3 per game and 3 is pushing it really pushing it. because most games dont last long if your up against a good team or your team is good and know wat thier doing.

By saying you should take mass invisibility over time warp you have lost any credibility you might have had in this thread.

Why? Mass invis is freaking amazing and I keep it over time warp any day unless my team BEGS me to use time warp. And by the way I was also going through game update patches and in one I found something funny in the profession updates under Engineers: Grenades…. This was the Nov 15 update

Grenade: This skill’s damage has been decreased by 10% in PvP only.

Shrapnel Grenade: This skill’s damage has been decreased by 15% in PvP only.

Freeze Grenade: This skill’s damage has been decreased by 10% in PvP only.

Grenade Barrage: This skill’s damage has been decreased by 10% in PvP only.

Hmmmm… wonder why that happened…. PvP only… Geez why don’t you see engineers in PvP now. Because people begged the and cried to have a nerf bat brought out… I’m starting to see a trend already. You say its for one skill… Next its gonna be shatter… Then after that you are gonna say that its not fair that we can bring up more clones while the ones on the way to shatter haven’t died yet… This list will go on and on. JUST STOP learn to play the game as designed and let the developers tweak the bugs as necessary with out constant crying. Seriously the game is barely 6 months out and already this is getting old. Get over your sense of entitlement sack up and go earn your kills. It is a team based game and teams must develop strategies for EVERY situation.

Yea no kitten. That’s a grenade nerf coupled with a smoke bomb nerf, an elixir R nerf and a downed HP nerf. And I am a kittening engineer. I have 1900 tourneys on an engi. I earn my kills more than anyone by a decent bit. There is NO STRATEGY TO COUNTER TIME WARP.

And for a guy who doesn’t even run time warp, what’s the big deal? It’s clear you don’t see value in it because you obviously don’t TPvP. Your lack of knowledge about the game shows in nearly every single post you’ve made. You’ve been CORRECTED on the information about time warp by an ENGINEER. Quite literally your input is nearly null value aside from the cautionary tale of too many nerf bats making a class go stale. It’s true. But time warp is kittening broken, plain and simple.

Your repeated assertion that everyone needs to “l2p” is countered instantly by you not running time warp and by you not understanding time warp and by yours and others’ continued assertion that it’s counterable BY RETALIATION AND CONFUSION.

I mained an engi for awhile but the nerfs became too much.. What I am getting at even If I don’t use TW in PvP is that begging for it to be nerfed will just keep the slippery slope going… The whining and qqing needs to stop yes there are counters to it SEVERAL… I really hope the Devs don’t listen to the forums begging for nerfs because there are just as many people that ARENT mesmers asking for it to not be nerfed…. Plus we are arguing that in that 10 seconds if it really tips the battle THAT much then chances are your team was kinda screwed to begin with coupled with its kitten long cooldown that make it viable once every 210 seconds… I am not trying to attack any one person as you may have just done I am stating that the constant ruining of a class to satisfy a small portion of the game play (I know may 10 people out of 100s that play PvP regularly) is RIDICULOUS…

jportell.2197:

I mained an engi for awhile but the nerfs became too much.. What I am getting at even If I don’t use TW in PvP is that begging for it to be nerfed will just keep the slippery slope going… The whining and qqing needs to stop yes there are counters to it SEVERAL… I really hope the Devs don’t listen to the forums begging for nerfs because there are just as many people that ARENT mesmers asking for it to not be nerfed…. Plus we are arguing that in that 10 seconds if it really tips the battle THAT much then chances are your team was kinda screwed to begin with coupled with its kitten long cooldown that make it viable once every 210 seconds… I am not trying to attack any one person as you may have just done I am stating that the constant ruining of a class to satisfy a small portion of the game play (I know may 10 people out of 100s that play PvP regularly) is RIDICULOUS…

For what little it matters, even people who don’t main engis agree those nerfs are a bit much, and are willing to post and post and post until thy’re fixed. Or at least I am.

And thus far, I’m agreeing with everything you’ve said.

Allllso, Battle standard doesn’t force people into being bunker warriors. You don’t NEED signet of Rage to make a good fighter warrior, just a good 1v1 warrior. in tPvP, 1v1’s don’t win teamfights.

Ostricheggs.3742:

Yea no kitten. That’s a grenade nerf coupled with a smoke bomb nerf, an elixir R nerf and a downed HP nerf. And I am a kittening engineer. I have 1900 tourneys on an engi. I earn my kills more than anyone by a decent bit. There is NO STRATEGY TO COUNTER TIME WARP.

And for a guy who doesn’t even run time warp, what’s the big deal? It’s clear you don’t see value in it because you obviously don’t TPvP. Your lack of knowledge about the game shows in nearly every single post you’ve made. You’ve been CORRECTED on the information about time warp by an ENGINEER. Quite literally your input is nearly null value aside from the cautionary tale of too many nerf bats making a class go stale. It’s true. But time warp is kittening broken, plain and simple.

Your repeated assertion that everyone needs to “l2p” is countered instantly by you not running time warp and by you not understanding time warp and by yours and others’ continued assertion that it’s counterable BY RETALIATION AND CONFUSION.

Wow Ostrich is mad. Guess I shouldn’t have owned him on his ele the other night… :/ LOL :P <3

Ostricheggs.3742:

Yea no kitten. That’s a grenade nerf coupled with a smoke bomb nerf, an elixir R nerf and a downed HP nerf. And I am a kittening engineer. I have 1900 tourneys on an engi. I earn my kills more than anyone by a decent bit. There is NO STRATEGY TO COUNTER TIME WARP.

And for a guy who doesn’t even run time warp, what’s the big deal? It’s clear you don’t see value in it because you obviously don’t TPvP. Your lack of knowledge about the game shows in nearly every single post you’ve made. You’ve been CORRECTED on the information about time warp by an ENGINEER. Quite literally your input is nearly null value aside from the cautionary tale of too many nerf bats making a class go stale. It’s true. But time warp is kittening broken, plain and simple.

Your repeated assertion that everyone needs to “l2p” is countered instantly by you not running time warp and by you not understanding time warp and by yours and others’ continued assertion that it’s counterable BY RETALIATION AND CONFUSION.

A complete counter argument to what you have stated for timewarp being OP is that nearly every other class has a UTILITY (rangers, engis, warriors, thieves, off the top of my head) skill that grants them quickness for a predetermined amount of time (not 10 seconds) and brings it at a cost to the player… Time warp is ELITE so there for it should have a bigger advantage and be at little to no cost to the player or the group. It is also THE ONLY skill in the entire bar available to mesmers that has “quickness” in it.

Actually, no one was calling for grenade nerfs. That was done because kits were doing more damage in PvP than in PvE, due to the fact that weapons don’t have stats on them in PvP (thus, the fact that weapon stats don’t affect kits is not an issue in PvP so grenades did more damage in PvP).

The general effect of the nerf was that an already-niche PvP build got a little bit worse. However, it wasn’t done because anyone was calling for the “nerf bat.”

It’s understandable that people don’t want to see their profession nerfed, but this is not a witch hunt. I’m not real concerned about it because I don’t do many paids, which is the only place TW is mandatory—that’s why I haven’t really said anything in this thread. I do think it’s important to be accurate, though. Right now, a lot of people are saying things that just haven’t actually happened.

That said, I do think elites should be game-changing. No one’s arguing about that. It’s the “mandatory” part that people dislike.

Hey Ostrich, fancy meeting you here. Yeah, I do feel that Time Warp is bit OP compared to other elites. With having about 4 people in the timewarp, they gain enough quickness that the quickness to cooldown ratio is 1:5.25, where as just the utility skills for quickness is 1:15 along with a downfall. Usually when I see time warp, i just shadow refuge and wait it out…but then by that time, they probably wiped all my friends.

I feel the Engi nerf was a bit extreme and a bit uncalled for, but what can you do? I felt the same exact way when my S/D thief got caught in the crossfire of the D/D thief ganker.

Ostricheggs.3742:

Yea no kitten. That’s a grenade nerf coupled with a smoke bomb nerf, an elixir R nerf and a downed HP nerf. And I am a kittening engineer. I have 1900 tourneys on an engi. I earn my kills more than anyone by a decent bit. There is NO STRATEGY TO COUNTER TIME WARP.

And for a guy who doesn’t even run time warp, what’s the big deal? It’s clear you don’t see value in it because you obviously don’t TPvP. Your lack of knowledge about the game shows in nearly every single post you’ve made. You’ve been CORRECTED on the information about time warp by an ENGINEER. Quite literally your input is nearly null value aside from the cautionary tale of too many nerf bats making a class go stale. It’s true. But time warp is kittening broken, plain and simple.

Your repeated assertion that everyone needs to “l2p” is countered instantly by you not running time warp and by you not understanding time warp and by yours and others’ continued assertion that it’s counterable BY RETALIATION AND CONFUSION.

And reflection, though. Reflection, alone, can and will decimate a ranged group in a TW field. So, basically, at worst you’re looking at 4 ranged players who are truly benefiting from the 10 seconds of TW (Mesmer abilities are more strongly tied to CDs, not quickness), and all of their abilities can be reflected back at them. That also means that for the rest of the match, you’re only facing off against ranged – who are likely less armored. This also ignores the fact that TW can be boosting a pet instead of a player.

TW has no real benefit to melee if you even stand at the very edge. TW can be countered, and violently, with confusion, retaliation, and – most of all – reflection. It’s been stated before, in this thread, that a single wall of reflection will WRECK an entire group inside a TW field.

How long is Wall of Reflection? 10 seconds. What’s its cooldown? 40 seconds.

Contrary to some claims in this thread, TW absolutely can be countered. Also mentioned in this thread is that it really comes into play in tPvP, where an organized group with a Mesmer can use it in conjunction with portal to take a point and, subsequently, hold it with a bunker. That means 2/5 of that group is not going to benefit, entirely, from TW (the Mesmer and the Guardian). In order to NOT reflect, your group can’t have any guardians, thieves (dagger storm), engineers, rangers, eles, mesmers, or warriors (missile deflection).

Also, in tPvP, your team should also be just as organized as the one with the Mesmer. You mean to tell me that you won’t have any of those other classes – especially a Guardian who can WoR – or even push out the group? That same Guardian who can also, after the initial TW damage has been done, can pop his book and heal the group up?

Again, reflection (which is available to almost everyone) is the real TW killer.

SteepledHat.1345:

All this guy does is insult the credibility of people who disagree with him. Lol, it’s quite funny. This is clearly a mesmer witch hunt. Stop trying to nerf mes. Set your sights on something new that you can’t kill.

I don’t have a problem with Mesmers being able to kill things. I have a problem with the fact that mesmers are essentially a requirement for a competitive team and it hurts the variety of viable team comps because mesmers have abilities which are extremely strong and not closely replicated by any other class.

I attack the credibility of those who make statements which makes it clear that they have no reason to be taking part in the discussion.

Advent.6193:

leman.7682:

Fuzion.7613:

Turn time warp into a signet
Signet of Time

• Passive Movement Speed (20%?) Would have with mesmers lack of mobility.
• Apply 4 seconds of Quickness to Yourself and Ally’s within 600 range
• 140 Second Cool Down

I like.

I also like. Helps PvE and PvP. ANet, kindly offer this person (Fuzion) a job. Thank you. Note, duration could probably use some modding.

I main a mesmer in PvPand hate QQ threads. That being said, TW is probably a bit too good in its present form. The tone of a match is set in the first major teamfight and winning it is a pretty big advantage especially as the mid-points typically give you very good visibility about the map which translates in being able to coordinate your rotations much better than the re-grouping opposition. Not having TW in that teamfight first major teamfight is a pretty large disadvantage.

I like the signet advantage, but for that long of a cooldown I would probably increase the quickness duration to 6s or decrease to cooldown to 100 or 120s. There are also some other flavorful, interesting possibilities for the passive signet: 5% chance on critical to remove the gcd (or reduce by 50%) of that ability, 5% chance on critical to apply quickness to your next ability, 5% chance on critical to finish the cooldown on your other signets (or cantrips), 50% chance to gain swiftness after using a cantrip, but I do like just the base 20% movement speed increase too.

What confuses me so much about this discussion is that people keep talking about the mechanics of timewarp itself rather than its impact on the match:

Timewarp gives a mesmer’s team a good 10sec advantage. Its cooldown is such so that it will probably never have a more than 3x (and most likely 2x) in a match. For 10s 2-3 times a match, the Mesmer’s team will have the advantage (optimally at one point). Honestly it doesn’t sound so bad for me when Mesmer is otherwise a very gimmicky burst? And several bunkers have ways to totally negate incoming damage for a significant portion of Timewarp’s duration?

I’ve got less than 350 games under my belt, so I’m not the legendary PvPer many people here are. But, uh… that seems counter-able and I’ve seen it countered in my play experience? As mentioned, the usual call is for someone to slot reflection abilities or damage negation abilities. And I’ve been in a game where we had a mesmer timewarping and the other team started countering with a very well-organized Area Retaliation (lol light field, I know). I was sort of shocked how that seemingly unimpressive thing totally destroyed us.

Ostricheggs.3742:

I win 90% of my 1v1s with mesmers. It comes down to if I kitten up or not. This isn’t about getting “wrecked” by mesmers, it’s about time warp.

TIme warp is on a similar cooldown to most elites as well with only 30 seconds more than supply crate and 30 seconds LESS than the ranger’s spirit and warbanner.

It is the most powerful elite in the game. Stop resorting to insults and ridiculousness.

It is the most powerful elite in the game IF the team that is using it has good coordination. And if you all think mesmsers are SO MANDATORY in PvP and come across timewarp tell your mesmer ahead of time hey have feedback ready. Or if you have ranger have him do whirling defense. Or if you have a Guardian since they are SO MANDATORY as well have him put up a wall of reflection because one if you are caught inside the time warp alone just LOL… but if your enemies have to range you which lets hope is the case a guardian can put wall of reflection up then all those projectiles that would be combo finishers wind up causing confusion on the team inside the time warp… It is on a similar cooldown as most elites for a good reason. And none of mesmers elites cause direct damage unlike EVERY other profession which has elites that can in some way cause direct damage… So several people including me have given many rational EFFECTIVE counters to time warp… IF you run a team that has no defensive stats what so ever then it is your own fault that you lost the battle from everyone inside that time warp… But even minor defensive skills or a thieves daggers storm (the other most whined about class) will make the team wish they had never even dropped a time warp… IF you want this to turn into I hit you you hit me I don’t need to dodge or think game then go play a traditional turned based RPG… Just because an ELITE skill makes people have to think on their feet does not make it OP.

Question: What if I just don’t like Mesmers? What if I think they’re aesthetically unpleasant and just want nothing to do with them? Does that mean I should be punished because no other class can move my entire team across the map or give me 10 sec of haste with zero drawbacks while every other team uses these to their obvious advantage?

Or to put it in the realm of the eSports aspirations, as a casual observer, why would I watch more than a couple matches when everyone is playing the same comp, with the same tactics, and the same skills? And if everyone is doing the same thing, is there any actual skill involved in that or is it merely GW2’s version of painting by numbers? In short, why should I stay interested?

In truth, these “Don’t Nerf TW” posts are effectively arguing for keeping the status quo. But when I look around in PvP the status quo doesn’t particularly look so good – particularly when measured against the game’s aspirations. So how about we let the “countering TW” argument go, because this isn’t about countering TW. It’s about adding diversity to this already extremely limited and stale game. ANet themselves have already stated that more diversity is a goal so it stands to reason that a change is gonna come. Why prop one’s self up against change? Specially when change is much needed.

2c

Because once people start thinking tactically and countering timewarp then people will also stop using timewarp and diversity will come as a result of player decisions… Also by waiting for the game developers to give us DIVERSITY really shows a lack of adaptability… There is a saying Improvise, Adapt, Overcome…. It is applicable here people just have a sense of entitlement because they lost when the feel they shouldn’t have…

And WHAT DO YOU MEAN BY STATUS QUO? the game is barely six months old… I am by no means bored with it at all.

jportell.2197:

And WHAT DO YOU MEAN BY STATUS QUO? the game is barely six months old… I am by no means bored with it at all.

Today’s lesson for the publicly educated courtesy of Google and Merriam-Webster:

sta·tus quo
/?st?t?s ?kw?/
Noun
The existing state of affairs, esp. regarding social or political issues: “they have a vested interest in maintaining the status quo”.

Status Quo, as we can see here, does not require a particular duration or passage of time. it merely refers to a current or existing state – as we can see from the first 3 words of the definition.

Additionally, the status quo, in regards to GW2 PvP, would include more than just yourself. For instance, it would include all the people who no longer bother with PvP, or GW2 in general, because it is a small game mode consisting of 2 formats (hotjoins and tournaments) and 4 maps with clear player/class favoritism/tendencies that cumulatively redefine the word “repetitive”. So while you might not be bored, the population (or lack there of) within the HotM would beg to differ.

jportell.2197:

Because once people start thinking tactically and countering timewarp then people will also stop using timewarp and diversity will come as a result of player decisions… Also by waiting for the game developers to give us DIVERSITY really shows a lack of adaptability… There is a saying Improvise, Adapt, Overcome…. It is applicable here people just have a sense of entitlement because they lost when the feel they shouldn’t have…

… this is hilariously hypocritical.

you’re essentially telling everyone else to L2P so you don’t have to. Everyone else needs to think creatively about THEIR tactics, THEIR ability to counter, THEIR ability to adapt, THEIR ability to diversify. All so you don’t have to figure out how to carry on with a toned down version of TW.

Hilarious.

hackks.3687:

jportell.2197:

Because once people start thinking tactically and countering timewarp then people will also stop using timewarp and diversity will come as a result of player decisions… Also by waiting for the game developers to give us DIVERSITY really shows a lack of adaptability… There is a saying Improvise, Adapt, Overcome…. It is applicable here people just have a sense of entitlement because they lost when the feel they shouldn’t have…

… this is hilariously hypocritical.

you’re essentially telling everyone else to L2P so you don’t have to. Everyone else needs to think creatively about THEIR tactics, THEIR ability to counter, THEIR ability to adapt, THEIR ability to diversify. All so you don’t have to figure out how to carry on with a toned down version of TW.

Hilarious.

Or perhaps he’s saying that instead of calling for rampant nerfs to everything one by one, lets not nerf everything. We’re seing literally NO effort by the “NErf timewarp” croud to come up with counters, while the pro timewarp croud is trying to give suggestions. Some such as light field area retaliation ACTUALLY WORK. But are completely ignored, because it’s non meta.

Oh, not to mention apparently bunker builds, which timewarp forces into a retreat, are perfectly fine and okay, dispite the fact that in standard pvp, people will often flat out ignore a bunker on a point (Been there, seen it way too many times) because they don’t want to deal with an unwinnable battle of attrition.

hackks.3687:

Question: What if I just don’t like Mesmers? What if I think they’re aesthetically unpleasant and just want nothing to do with them? Does that mean I should be punished because no other class can move my entire team across the map or give me 10 sec of haste with zero drawbacks while every other team uses these to their obvious advantage?

Or to put it in the realm of the eSports aspirations, as a casual observer, why would I watch more than a couple matches when everyone is playing the same comp, with the same tactics, and the same skills? And if everyone is doing the same thing, is there any actual skill involved in that or is it merely GW2’s version of painting by numbers? In short, why should I stay interested?

In truth, these “Don’t Nerf TW” posts are effectively arguing for keeping the status quo. But when I look around in PvP the status quo doesn’t particularly look so good – particularly when measured against the game’s aspirations. So how about we let the “countering TW” argument go, because this isn’t about countering TW. It’s about adding diversity to this already extremely limited and stale game. ANet themselves have already stated that more diversity is a goal so it stands to reason that a change is gonna come. Why prop one’s self up against change? Specially when change is much needed.

2c

I respectfully disagree. These “don’t nerf TW” posts are saying “don’t fix what isn’t actually broken”. TW aside, the most common complaint I hear about fighting Mesmer is “the clones make it impossible to tell who the Mesmer is” – which is a clear indication of the problem. The Mesmer is always the one that’s moving and using different/faster attacks – it’s really not hard to tell. However, this requires going “above and beyond” paying attention to your character and his/her 10 skills.

As has been mentioned, it is ridiculously easy to turn a TW against the entire group that’s using it – reflection. However, there are many other issues (as you mention) that DO affect PvP that are not as easily overcomeable. The persistent culling issue, the fact that Mesmers are punished for 100% world completion, and general warrior balancing are a few that immediately come to mind (the last one is half a joke before any of you warriors freak the kitten out).

Attacking a Mesmer skill that you don’t understand, simply because you don’t understand it and getting it nerfed seems to be the status quo here. So, in a way, defending TW is breaking the status quo. Regardless, defending it is simple – it isn’t what the attackers claim it to be (some insurmountable beast of a skill). In fact, when defended properly, TW can turn the tide AGAINST the caster’s team.

Dude, WvW forum is right below

hackks.3687:

jportell.2197:

Because once people start thinking tactically and countering timewarp then people will also stop using timewarp and diversity will come as a result of player decisions… Also by waiting for the game developers to give us DIVERSITY really shows a lack of adaptability… There is a saying Improvise, Adapt, Overcome…. It is applicable here people just have a sense of entitlement because they lost when the feel they shouldn’t have…

… this is hilariously hypocritical.

you’re essentially telling everyone else to L2P so you don’t have to. Everyone else needs to think creatively about THEIR tactics, THEIR ability to counter, THEIR ability to adapt, THEIR ability to diversify. All so you don’t have to figure out how to carry on with a toned down version of TW.

Hilarious.

A toned down version thats fine reduce the length that it is at…. Half it. I am getting at the people that are screaming for it to be removed… If I have to fight a warrior and wasted my endurance I am screwed. I think tactically I enjoy small team play I assess enemies that I am about to face and if I can get the drop on them because they are un aware of their surroundings good for me… If they get the drop on me because I wasn’t look around or if I get backstabbed by I thief that I see stealth because I wasn’t strafing or stun breaking I deserved it. I think on my feet when I play… The people asking for the removal/reduction of this skill are asking for it from a team of developers that still have not addressed in game bugs that have been there since launch… So if something is working as designed let it work as designed and once they get all the traits effects and so on working properly then lets adjust balance from there because then we will have a full perspective of what is and what is not balanced.

Prelude.3817:

Dude, WvW forum is right below

Culling rendering has also been an issue for some in sPvP.

If they Nerf TW.
I garentee they will come after MI and Veil next.

I’ve come to the conclusion after playing this game for 3months, the community just doesn’t like mesmers and would rather them nerfed to the point of unviability, instead of learning to cope with them.

IMO, time warp is how elite skills should be. It actually fits that description of game changing skill that they were meant to be, rather being like the majority of elites which people would trade for a utility. So yeah, I think other elites should just be buffed. Or people really think its that much of a problem, maybe add an interesting negative effect to time warp, like a ~2second stack of confusion every second.

So people are basically kittening that having a mesmer is required in PVP matches due to mesmers having TW.

Isn’t that basically begging the question, why does every PVP team have a guardian? NERF GUARDIANS PLOX.

If the devs really choose to listen to the QQ, then it will only be a matter of time before the slippery slopes starts to turn into a landslide where either PVP will die or again, become a generic have this class, this class, and this class = win if the other team isn’t the same match-up.

jportell.2197:

hackks.3687:

jportell.2197:

Because once people start thinking tactically and countering timewarp then people will also stop using timewarp and diversity will come as a result of player decisions… Also by waiting for the game developers to give us DIVERSITY really shows a lack of adaptability… There is a saying Improvise, Adapt, Overcome…. It is applicable here people just have a sense of entitlement because they lost when the feel they shouldn’t have…

… this is hilariously hypocritical.

you’re essentially telling everyone else to L2P so you don’t have to. Everyone else needs to think creatively about THEIR tactics, THEIR ability to counter, THEIR ability to adapt, THEIR ability to diversify. All so you don’t have to figure out how to carry on with a toned down version of TW.

Hilarious.

A toned down version thats fine reduce the length that it is at…. Half it. I am getting at the people that are screaming for it to be removed… If I have to fight a warrior and wasted my endurance I am screwed. I think tactically I enjoy small team play I assess enemies that I am about to face and if I can get the drop on them because they are un aware of their surroundings good for me… If they get the drop on me because I wasn’t look around or if I get backstabbed by I thief that I see stealth because I wasn’t strafing or stun breaking I deserved it. I think on my feet when I play… The people asking for the removal/reduction of this skill are asking for it from a team of developers that still have not addressed in game bugs that have been there since launch… So if something is working as designed let it work as designed and once they get all the traits effects and so on working properly then lets adjust balance from there because then we will have a full perspective of what is and what is not balanced.

Dude. 95% of all game breaking bugs have been fixed. You’re just making stuff up defending a blatantly overpowered elite at this point. I’m perfectly happy with it being 5 seconds. I don’t want to see it nerfed into the ground and I don’t want to see mesmers kicked out of team comps because of a time warp nerf. All I want is a bit of balance.

And to the above poster regarding guardians, it’s a far more complicated effort to reign in the king of bunkers. Time warp is a simple fix to an extremely powerful ability that when coupled with the already powerful portal can make a mesmers presence felt with very little effort or time spent in the fight.

I often play a mesmer, i think nerfing it to 6 or 8 seconds would be suffcient. It does after all have over a 3 min cd.

cooldown isn’t a justification for power level if an ability is strong enough to cause a snowball effect in a match that renders that cooldown irrelevant.

Seether.7285:

SteepledHat.1345:

All this guy does is insult the credibility of people who disagree with him. Lol, it’s quite funny. This is clearly a mesmer witch hunt. Stop trying to nerf mes. Set your sights on something new that you can’t kill.

I don’t have a problem with Mesmers being able to kill things. I have a problem with the fact that mesmers are essentially a requirement for a competitive team and it hurts the variety of viable team comps because mesmers have abilities which are extremely strong and not closely replicated by any other class.

I attack the credibility of those who make statements which makes it clear that they have no reason to be taking part in the discussion.

Well you don’t get to decide who has reason to participate in this discussion. Especially when the crying on this forum has an effect on all other game modes. Try to remember that. It’s not just SPvP you’re changing here. Also, you should never feel it necessary to shut someone down like that. If they really lack a point, you shouldn’t have much trouble saying why. If you can support your argument it shouldn’t be an issue if someone is saying something silly.