Guild Wars 2

Some people say that anybody who says a class is overpowered is a scrub and needs to l2p. So I’m going to ask the question on the forums.

Apperently the enginner class is very balanced and not OP at all and I have a big L2P issue to kill this balanced class.

Can some1 tell me how to beat celestial engineer that has perma poison , perma burning , perma weakness and that drops the crate on me?

Help would be much apreciated. Oh also dodigng is not answer because the burning has no counter play at all and the weakness is on autoattack . Oh and the suply crate still immobilises and burns you even if you dodge it :S

So besides from rerolling to engineer is there any way to beat them as D/P thief? I hope so because I dont like playing an easy class if I’m really forced to join them in order to beat them……
Thank you for reading!

So you have perma weakness AND burning on you. What kind of super-engis are you facing.

Browrain.7346:

So you have perma weakness AND burning on you. What kind of super-engis are you facing.

balth IP engi with elixir gun.

Simon.3794:

Browrain.7346:

So you have perma weakness AND burning on you. What kind of super-engis are you facing.

balth IP engi with elixir gun.

Balth IP isnt perma burn.

Browrain.7346:

Simon.3794:

Browrain.7346:

So you have perma weakness AND burning on you. What kind of super-engis are you facing.

balth IP engi with elixir gun.

Balth IP isnt perma burn.

still infinitely close to perma

It’s a team game, sometimes a class has the advantage. Even insert pro thief name here has a terrible time against guardians. SoloQ lacks many key components (communication via voice, total comp synergy, etc.), so I wouldn’t let a few bad experiences there make it seem as if the game is totally unbalanced for your class. One example of how we used to beat turret engis (decap engis or whatever else) back in the day was have our thief train him as soon as he left the base each time. A.) He has to put his turrets and overall defensive and offensive cds to fight a thief in the streets, a terrible idea. B.) Enemy thief has to attempt to 2v1 their thief in the streets, still not a great idea. C.) Ignores thief and dies due to tremendous thief damage, typical outcome. Some classes beat other classes, but in a team game that shouldn’t be a very big issue if you rotate properly. As for actually 1v1’ing an engineer on point with traditional D/P, not sure.

glock.6590:

So besides from rerolling to engineer is there any way to beat them as D/P thief? I hope so because I dont like playing an easy class if I’m really forced to join them in order to beat them……
Thank you for reading!

I will ignore your trolling tentative, and I’ll try to be constructive. I’ll give you a quick hint of what an engineer could do so that you’ll be able to recognize what he’s doing and why. My advice are found at the bottom of the WoT.

Let’s start with the basic!

Regarding Incendiary powder:
If the engineer is Celestial triple kit, he does not have perma burning at all, plus the burning damage is derisory, compared to what an IP proc would do if the engi was Rabid+Balthazaar: it’s something like 4.5 secs 1900+ damage, with no might stacks, and those ~9 might stacks don’t help a lot. It still is a lot of damage, given that a thief is glassy and has like 14k hp.
Celestial Engineer only source of burning is IP, and Crate Turrets burning duration is pitiful (little more than 2 seconds). The problem you are facing with turrets is the stun+immobilize: the burst you receive (both condi and raw DPS) is because the engineer can unload everything on you while you are locked down, not because of the turrets, unless we are talking about a turret engineer, but since you specified that you have problems facing celestial engineers, I’m assuming this is not the case.

Now, regarding perma poison
Perma poison is not that hard to achieve at all, with doom sigil.
Thus, let’s assume he’s running doom sigil, for the sake of it. This means he has to give up on either Battle and/or Energy. Thus, he either has no way of might stacking (very unlikely) or he hasn’t the extra dodge given by energy (more likely). This alone should help you a lot in fighting them. No energy sigil means he relies only on vigor, which cannot be easily countered though, since he can reapply that every every 10 seconds (6 seconds of vigor out of 10), but can be stolen rather easily, since celestial engineers have usually “only” might+vigor+swiftness on them. A simple steal could be enough.
Now back to the perma poison: assuming that the engi is running doom sigil, he has 3 way of applying poison:

• Sigil of Doom
• Grenade Kit #5
• Elixir gun #3
  Sigil of doom applies ~7 seconds of poison + ~5 seconds of poison out of Elixir Gun #3 (which misses a lot, to be honest) + 0~35 seconds due to poison grenade.
  If you get hit by all 3 the poison granades you instantly get 9 seconds of poison. Every time you step on that poison field, you get additional poison (just like choking gas). Thus, assuming the engineer is a skilled one and he hits you with the 3 granades, you get additional 9 seconds of poison out of 25. My advice is simply to not to stand on it. It lasts 5 seconds, so try to avoid it for the duration. Stealth is your friend, in this particular case.

Regarding perma weakness:
Perma weakness is not simple at all to achieve. Weakness being on the autoattack forces the engineer to simply autoattack. Elixir gun #1 has pitiful damage, so he won’t benefit from the raw power part of the Celestial Build and he will not even benefit the condition one, since it applies at most 4-5 bleeding stacks.
The weakness on autoattack lasts 1.25 seconds. The autoattack itself is about 0.75 seconds, but due to aftercast and initial cast you can achieve permaweakness only by keeping autoattacking. It is, though, a very powerfull tool in the hand of a good engineer: it can easily try to counter your burst by predicting it and starting to autoattack. This should be rendered useless if you use a D/P build, though: the duration of the weakness, like I said, is ~1 second, thus you shouldn’t even need to wait for the weakness to end before backstabbing. If you hit with the pistol #5 shot, this should not even be an issue.

Now, my advice!
Engineer vs thief is a tough match for a thief, just like thief vs mesmer is a tough match for a mesmer. I am objective in saying that a thief can potentially beat an engi, but it’s not easy nor likely at all.
The problem, other than a L2P issue, is on your attitude. You can’t seriously expect to beat a (let’s assume good) engineer without having tried the class.
“Nay, I won’t play a faceroll class to learn how to beat it, I prefer to be beaten over and over again” this makes no sense, and I suppose you can agree with me on that (a part from the fact that I do not think celestial triple kit engineer is a faceroll class ).
That is literally the BEST thing you could do to improve yourself. If you are not skilled enough, replace personal skill with knowledge. Knowledge will help you improve your skill. It’s that easy, really.

Now, for what concerns your build: D/P is not optimal to fight an engineer. Another problem with YOU and not your skill level, is that you are not able to adapt. A S/D build would much more useful against an engineer.
Assuming you don’t want to change your build, I’d suggest you to play 6 0 2 0 6 (with Lyssa runes) to bring more condi removal and panic strikes. Engineers hate immobilize. Half of the engineer attacks will miss if his enemy is not in a 90 degrees field of view (fumigate, rifle #2, #3, #4, etc), and immobilize helps achieving that. Also, you being on the offensive helps a lot. Pass through his character model, you’ll receive a guaranteed grenade burst, but not the rest. Lure him in wasting precious cooldown (such as poison granade, granade barrage, magnet).

Engineers have few condition removals. Chocking gas + immobilize + weakness at the same time can help you a lot. The steal ability you get from engineers really hurts them, even if the raw damage is pitiful. Keep them constantly blinded, if possible. Go into stealth as much as possible, since a part from grenades/fumigate many hard-hitting or important skills (like Net Shot, Blunderbuss) “require” a target (or a “manual” aim).
You can stealth-lure him to waste grenades CD. Still, don’t prolong the match too much. Engineers doesn’t have very long cooldowns, thus you need to be able to maximize that window of opportunity.
Your real problem is supply crate. Despite it having a clear animation, it’s not that easy to interrupt at all. You can either daze him or blind him. Assuming you will not, you’ll truly need an “oh-crap” button like shadowstep.

Concluding my wall of text, it is more of an attitude towards the problem than a L2P issue. Still roll an engineer, though. It really helps you. A lot. I hope I’ve brought ray of sunshine in all the toxicness.

They are beatable with thief but its a hard match up and you’ll have to make a build that can beat the balth ip build , not easy tho , good luck :P

Don’t fight them. If the game “demands” you to beat any kind of engi (not zerker of course) on point, it means that you’re doing something wrong.
Thief is not a 1v1 profession, nor a “turn a 1v2 into a 2v2” profession. Thief is a “turn a 1v1 into a 2v1” profession, a decap profession and a “kill the enemy roamers and damage dealers” professions.

It is an l2p issue. Even sizer acknowledges that thief (especially s/d) has an upper hand against engineer and the only way engi even stand a chance is due to weapon swap condi sigil.

OP should L2P clearly.

There are no overpowered classes or w/e else.

You make a build which work against 20 builds across all classes but it’s greatly vulnerable against one build on specific class.
Or rather it’s really difficult to fight such player.

Frankly I prefer to have a build which can easily counter 20 other builds and lose to one build which appears maybe once a week.

Frenk.5917:

Go into stealth as much as possible, since a part from grenades the majority of their skill require a target.

This one is a gold, thanks.

Chapell.1346:

Frenk.5917:

Go into stealth as much as possible, since a part from grenades the majority of their skill require a target.

This one is a gold, thanks.

You are right, I should edit to make it more clear. Most of Engineer skills do not require a target, but without a real target, you have to “manually aim”.

Let me explain: Net Shot does not require a target. However, if you do not have a target, the projectile (the net) is most likely to be aimed towards the ground, due to the camera angle.
In order to not let that happen, you should move your camera angle like if this was a FPS, so that Net shot will actually fly somewhat in a straight line mid-air.
Assuming the stealthed thief is clever enough to not to stand on a radius of 180 around the engineer (unless he has to backstab, operation that requires about 1 second to be completed, less if he’s using shadowshot+bkacstab combo), the engineer is likely to not to hit him unless he’s spamming grenades around (case which I already described in my original post).

The same goes with EG #1, EG#2, RIfle #4, Magnet. Going into stealth prevents these from being used, and, even if it will be hit by grenades/fumigates/toolkit #2, it will still be less damage than the damage he’d get if he wasn’t stealthed.

I hope I explained myself, I’m going to edit that right now! Thanks for the correction, Chapell.

dont worry man with proper build engi cant loose against thief , on solo q i 1v 2 2 thiefs and stomped them with dmg ,1 was r60 on solo q with lot games played ….but u can kill those rifle celstial almost for sure ,tip: when u daze or basilisk them they get prot

Be aware of burn proc. Good engineers will attempt to disable you or cover up the burn with CC. Remove it with HiS if the situation is right.

Dodge magnet.

Be ready for Overcharged Shot, it could easily go into a CC chain with Magnet and Nades. They can do it mid block, mid nades, right after a dodge. I’ve seen thieves fast enough that they stunbreak into a backstab, taking advantage of the self knockback.

Don’t fight an Engineer who just crated, no matter how low he is. He will block and get all the medkits, potentially immob you because you want the kill, then remove all of your health in 1 combo. Reset or shortbow his turrets. Or be useful elsewhere if you are low. Make him waste a 180 sec CD.

One of the best ways to kill an Engineer is to gank him midfight in stealth with a Basi backstab. That usually forces his defensive CD (Elixir S, the stealth etc). If he runs Elixir Gun he will stunbreak into Gear Shield. Then most likely Turret heal.

Oh yeah, strafing in and out of his character + blinds messes up all his rifle setups.