Just curious if anyone is thinking outside the box on potential bunker or sup builds as well as maybe some hybrid play? Anyone experimenting with a way to still bunk as ele or druid, or maybe even a guardian sup bunk?
Just would like to capture all of our devout pvpers ideas and theories so we can build off of each others knowledge and experience.
I used to play old school bunker guard when the game first came out and loved it. I would like to play a more support style role but every match it seems its just stack 5 dps, slam your keys and see who dies.
I usually try to share my builds, but people tell me they should never work. And then they do.
For Bunker, if you own Hot stick on Chronomancer and drop Mercenary Amulet. Grab stun traits and utilities, then just yolo. You won’t “crush fights” but anyone dumb enough to fight you will experience the purest manifestation of cancer. As for Ele, use Mender’s. Not the same broken level as pre-patch, but fairly decent. Guardian Support is a thing if you get a Reaper with Blighter’s Boon and you run shout. Otherwise, meh. This game has a lot of damage right now as people figure out how to bunker again. My advice is wait for metabattle to declare what is weak and what is strong (something everyone is forgetting and is whining about, forgetting that if they are lost metabattle will show the way) then to build to counter it.
I would like to build a hybrid dragon hunter bunker build. I think it would work depending on team comp.
Sadly everytime I got in a game yesterday on any of my classes, I felt like I was just getting stomped in 10 seconds, or my team killed htem in 10 seconds. Mid fights lasted a total of like 20 seconds and its over.
I usually try to share my builds, but people tell me they should never work. And then they do.
For Bunker, if you own Hot stick on Chronomancer and drop Mercenary Amulet. Grab stun traits and utilities, then just yolo. You won’t “crush fights” but anyone dumb enough to fight you will experience the purest manifestation of cancer. As for Ele, use Mender’s. Not the same broken level as pre-patch, but fairly decent. Guardian Support is a thing if you get a Reaper with Blighter’s Boon and you run shout. Otherwise, meh. This game has a lot of damage right now as people figure out how to bunker again. My advice is wait for metabattle to declare what is weak and what is strong (something everyone is forgetting and is whining about, forgetting that if they are lost metabattle will show the way) then to build to counter it.
Why a shout guard with a blighters boon reaper? Ever since the nerf they don’t have the same synergy.
Just curious if anyone is thinking outside the box on potential bunker or sup builds as well as maybe some hybrid play? Anyone experimenting with a way to still bunk as ele or druid, or maybe even a guardian sup bunk?
Just would like to capture all of our devout pvpers ideas and theories so we can build off of each others knowledge and experience.
I used to play old school bunker guard when the game first came out and loved it. I would like to play a more support style role but every match it seems its just stack 5 dps, slam your keys and see who dies.
The most I wish for is bunkers able to hold capped point vs 1 opponent indefinitely and deal low dmg but that drop rather fast in 1vs2 situations
That’s the problem I see. It seems that Bunker vs A new DPS build, it always goes to the DPS cause bunker does no dmg at all and still cant live. Shouldn’t a bunker be able to last against at least 1 dps, and even 2 dps for a limited time like 20seconds or so. This game feels more like a 1 role game.
If anyone has any builds or ideas they would like to share I would like to get the previous sup/bunker people talking about it.
That’s the problem I see. It seems that Bunker vs A new DPS build, it always goes to the DPS cause bunker does no dmg at all and still cant live. Shouldn’t a bunker be able to last against at least 1 dps, and even 2 dps for a limited time like 20seconds or so. This game feels more like a 1 role game.
If anyone has any builds or ideas they would like to share I would like to get the previous sup/bunker people talking about it.
The problem is they can’t balance it. Bunkers are too strong, then damage is too strong because the’re not doing small adjusments often but rather completely destroy/overbuff classes every 6 months. You’re not gonna balance the game like this, everyone knows that.
Hmm…as far as new ‘meta’ builds, it’s so hard to say since so many builds become meta not only because of how strong they are themselves, but also because of how strong they are against other popular builds. So far, the only clear winners seem to be necros and thieves. Assuming this, here are my guesses for builds that could become viable or even meta:
Shout Bow comeback. The Mender’s amulet seems to be well suited for this build and this build is getting some positive feedback on the war sub forums. If condi necro really becomes popular, this could help shout bow do well, despite the nerfs it’s seen in the past.
Condi bomb kit engi. This has always been a strong counter to thieves and now that thieves are back in the game, they may start to do more than just +1 and decap.
Marauder Engi. Chaithh played this with some pretty good success before the soldier’s variant took over. I’m pretty sure he even used this to hit legendary during last season. This is a solid heavy dps build that seems to only have been improved from the class changes and should fit in well with a burst meta due to the high damage and invulns/blocks.
Shout Longbow Rangers – I’m going out on a limb with this and this may honestly only be something that works in solo queues, but with auras being nerfed and bunker mesmers being pushed out, there should be less projectile hate. The shout buffs also seem like they could be good enough to actually take now. If the thief gets strong enough, this is another strong combo, especially if “Sic ’Em!” is taken.
Pistol Whip Comeback – This is another stretch guess. I still think D/P and Staff will rule the day, but a necro-heavy meta could make the high CC of a pistol whip build shine, particularly since the sword AA is in a better spot.
Well as an elementalist, I feel that a reroll or a 3 month break is in order.
Everything hits too hard, splashes to many aoe conditions, or aoe CC’s too long or to many times for any offensive ele build to be close to viable, there’s just better options. Elementalist right now feels worthless.
Hmm…as far as new ‘meta’ builds, it’s so hard to say since so many builds become meta not only because of how strong they are themselves, but also because of how strong they are against other popular builds. So far, the only clear winners seem to be necros and thieves. Assuming this, here are my guesses for builds that could become viable or even meta:
Shout Bow comeback. The Mender’s amulet seems to be well suited for this build and this build is getting some positive feedback on the war sub forums. If condi necro really becomes popular, this could help shout bow do well, despite the nerfs it’s seen in the past.
Condi bomb kit engi. This has always been a strong counter to thieves and now that thieves are back in the game, they may start to do more than just +1 and decap.
Marauder Engi. Chaithh played this with some pretty good success before the soldier’s variant took over. I’m pretty sure he even used this to hit legendary during last season. This is a solid heavy dps build that seems to only have been improved from the class changes and should fit in well with a burst meta due to the high damage and invulns/blocks.
Shout Longbow Rangers – I’m going out on a limb with this and this may honestly only be something that works in solo queues, but with auras being nerfed and bunker mesmers being pushed out, there should be less projectile hate. The shout buffs also seem like they could be good enough to actually take now. If the thief gets strong enough, this is another strong combo, especially if “Sic ’Em!” is taken.
Pistol Whip Comeback – This is another stretch guess. I still think D/P and Staff will rule the day, but a necro-heavy meta could make the high CC of a pistol whip build shine, particularly since the sword AA is in a better spot.
Anyways, those are my wild speculations so far.
Great. I am a s/p player. For a while. Should I brace for the “3 spamming nerd, go learn to play you slime ball” impact?
Well as an elementalist, I feel that a reroll or a 3 month break is in order.
Everything hits too hard, splashes to many aoe conditions, or aoe CC’s too long or to many times for any offensive ele build to be close to viable, there’s just better options. Elementalist right now feels worthless.
If you’re that inclined to embrace self pity, go for it. However, I can guarantee you that playing PvP a week or two from today will feel totally different from playing PvP today. That’s pretty much been the case for every balance patch since this game was released 3 years ago. It’s about as guaranteed to happen as forum QQ like this is guaranteed to show up regardless. =P
@ Serious Thought: Yup, pretty much. Story of thief: Playing dagger – “Omfg, spam 2 more! Noob!” Playing S/D – “Omfg, spam evade more! Noob!” Playing S/P – “Omfg, spam 3 more! Noob!”
At least the QQ over heartseeker has died down in the past year or so…
Hmm…as far as new ‘meta’ builds, it’s so hard to say since so many builds become meta not only because of how strong they are themselves, but also because of how strong they are against other popular builds. So far, the only clear winners seem to be necros and thieves. Assuming this, here are my guesses for builds that could become viable or even meta:
Shout Bow comeback. The Mender’s amulet seems to be well suited for this build and this build is getting some positive feedback on the war sub forums. If condi necro really becomes popular, this could help shout bow do well, despite the nerfs it’s seen in the past.
Condi bomb kit engi. This has always been a strong counter to thieves and now that thieves are back in the game, they may start to do more than just +1 and decap.
Marauder Engi. Chaithh played this with some pretty good success before the soldier’s variant took over. I’m pretty sure he even used this to hit legendary during last season. This is a solid heavy dps build that seems to only have been improved from the class changes and should fit in well with a burst meta due to the high damage and invulns/blocks.
Shout Longbow Rangers – I’m going out on a limb with this and this may honestly only be something that works in solo queues, but with auras being nerfed and bunker mesmers being pushed out, there should be less projectile hate. The shout buffs also seem like they could be good enough to actually take now. If the thief gets strong enough, this is another strong combo, especially if “Sic ’Em!” is taken.
Pistol Whip Comeback – This is another stretch guess. I still think D/P and Staff will rule the day, but a necro-heavy meta could make the high CC of a pistol whip build shine, particularly since the sword AA is in a better spot.
Anyways, those are my wild speculations so far.
Great. I am a s/p player. For a while. Should I brace for the “3 spamming nerd, go learn to play you slime ball” impact?
I used to play a bomb engi back in the day. I freeking loved it. I even played it with some tanky amulets, sometimes carrion, sometimes even soldier just as a decap and splash field guy. I hope you are right and this is viable again. NOt sure if putting points in scrapper would even be worth it though.
Hmm…as far as new ‘meta’ builds, it’s so hard to say since so many builds become meta not only because of how strong they are themselves, but also because of how strong they are against other popular builds. So far, the only clear winners seem to be necros and thieves. Assuming this, here are my guesses for builds that could become viable or even meta:
Shout Bow comeback. The Mender’s amulet seems to be well suited for this build and this build is getting some positive feedback on the war sub forums. If condi necro really becomes popular, this could help shout bow do well, despite the nerfs it’s seen in the past.
Condi bomb kit engi. This has always been a strong counter to thieves and now that thieves are back in the game, they may start to do more than just +1 and decap.
Marauder Engi. Chaithh played this with some pretty good success before the soldier’s variant took over. I’m pretty sure he even used this to hit legendary during last season. This is a solid heavy dps build that seems to only have been improved from the class changes and should fit in well with a burst meta due to the high damage and invulns/blocks.
Shout Longbow Rangers – I’m going out on a limb with this and this may honestly only be something that works in solo queues, but with auras being nerfed and bunker mesmers being pushed out, there should be less projectile hate. The shout buffs also seem like they could be good enough to actually take now. If the thief gets strong enough, this is another strong combo, especially if “Sic ’Em!” is taken.
Pistol Whip Comeback – This is another stretch guess. I still think D/P and Staff will rule the day, but a necro-heavy meta could make the high CC of a pistol whip build shine, particularly since the sword AA is in a better spot.
Anyways, those are my wild speculations so far.
Great. I am a s/p player. For a while. Should I brace for the “3 spamming nerd, go learn to play you slime ball” impact?
I used to play a bomb engi back in the day. I freeking loved it. I even played it with some tanky amulets, sometimes carrion, sometimes even soldier just as a decap and splash field guy. I hope you are right and this is viable again. NOt sure if putting points in scrapper would even be worth it though.
Yea, I know a lot of people miss this. I wouldn’t be surprised to see Jebro proposing a bomb kit build in a vid soon since he’s always loved that kit so much.
Well as an elementalist, I feel that a reroll or a 3 month break is in order.
Everything hits too hard, splashes to many aoe conditions, or aoe CC’s too long or to many times for any offensive ele build to be close to viable, there’s just better options. Elementalist right now feels worthless.
If you’re that inclined to embrace self pity, go for it. However, I can guarantee you that playing PvP a week or two from today will feel totally different from playing PvP today. That’s pretty much been the case for every balance patch since this game was released 3 years ago. It’s about as guaranteed to happen as forum QQ like this is guaranteed to show up regardless. =P
@ Serious Thought: Yup, pretty much. Story of thief: Playing dagger – “Omfg, spam 2 more! Noob!” Playing S/D – “Omfg, spam evade more! Noob!” Playing S/P – “Omfg, spam 3 more! Noob!”
At least the QQ over heartseeker has died down in the past year or so…
Maybe you’re right, maybe you’re wrong I don’t know. What I know right now is that pvp is not fun for me, call it QQ if you want. The only tactic envolved is to try and destroy the other team as fast as possibel. Its feels like every duel or fight is an old pre specialization Thief vs Thief, and in team fights its chaos and when the dust settles observe the corpses and see who lost less. That to me is not fun.
Not that the Bunker meta that came post HoT was any good either, so I think I just feel disapointed of not getting a groove back.
Well as an elementalist, I feel that a reroll or a 3 month break is in order.
Everything hits too hard, splashes to many aoe conditions, or aoe CC’s too long or to many times for any offensive ele build to be close to viable, there’s just better options. Elementalist right now feels worthless.
If you’re that inclined to embrace self pity, go for it. However, I can guarantee you that playing PvP a week or two from today will feel totally different from playing PvP today. That’s pretty much been the case for every balance patch since this game was released 3 years ago. It’s about as guaranteed to happen as forum QQ like this is guaranteed to show up regardless. =P
@ Serious Thought: Yup, pretty much. Story of thief: Playing dagger – “Omfg, spam 2 more! Noob!” Playing S/D – “Omfg, spam evade more! Noob!” Playing S/P – “Omfg, spam 3 more! Noob!”
At least the QQ over heartseeker has died down in the past year or so…
Maybe you’re right, maybe you’re wrong I don’t know. What I know right now is that pvp is not fun for me, call it QQ if you want. The only tactic envolved is to try and destroy the other tesm as fast as possibel. Its feels like every duel or fight is an old pre specialization Thief vs Thief, and in team fights its chaos and when the dust settles observe the corpses and see who lost less. That to me is not fun.
Not that the Bunker meta that came post HoT was any good either, so I think I just feel disapointed of not getting a groove back.
Fair enough, but just take a few weeks off. I doubt you’ll need to stay away for 3 months.
For ele, menders seems to be a decent substitute for cele. Ran a menders aura tempest in several games today with decent success. I take a little more damage, but I also do a little more damage and have a little better healing, so…it’s different, but still pretty good.
I may try do a block bunker guard build with dragonhunter traits. Every block removes a condition. Maybe the aegis trap and rest shouts. I dunno though. I tried making a bomb build just now in theory, but it seems if I go that route I honestly have like 2 condition cleanses so im screwed. Its like engi have to take Elixir traits to just sustain anymore unless you running the Hammer Scrapper stuff.
Shout longbow ranger still lacks condi cleanse though, and even if they were druid theyd have to invest in glyphs and condi removal on AF, making once again shout less used except heal and the elite. It would still fill a niche role, which the longbow ranger always have been, but yes more viable now if reflects are less present.
Power Ranger PvP I used to be a power ranger, now not sure anymore
I have a mender’s amulet but the build editor didn’t update to include one as its stats compliment a burst healer/fighter hybrid and it was a tough call between eagle runes and runes of the centaur but the added swiftness from passing the tablet through allies was just too good.
Staff and double swords give good point control and rez stopping. Shiro for the typical control abilities and gap closer.
Ventari has on demand AoE cleanse. It’s inferior to druid’s healing seed but can be used more often since healing seed needs CA form and this would free the druid up for more CA lunar beam and black hole.
It’s quite expensive energy wise so I’m in the process of energy management. As for my thief:
Though I might replace sword/dagger with shortbow if boon corruption becomes too much of a problem and replace trickery with shadow arts if I can’t stay on an opponent while in stealth that well. That was acro’s old job but I’d be giving up too much for vigor on dodge and 50% movement speed in stealth since I’d need to take acro and shadow arts.
I have a mender’s amulet but the build editor didn’t update to include one as its stats compliment a burst healer/fighter hybrid and it was a tough call between eagle runes and runes of the centaur but the added swiftness from passing the tablet through allies was just too good.
Staff and double swords give good point control and rez stopping. Shiro for the typical control abilities and gap closer.
Ventari has on demand AoE cleanse. It’s inferior to druid’s healing seed but can be used more often since healing seed needs CA form and this would free the druid up for more CA lunar beam and black hole.
It’s quite expensive energy wise so I’m in the process of energy management. As for my thief:
Though I might replace sword/dagger with shortbow if boon corruption becomes too much of a problem and replace trickery with shadow arts if I can’t stay on an opponent while in stealth that well. That was acro’s old job but I’d be giving up too much for vigor on dodge and 50% movement speed in stealth since I’d need to take acro and shadow arts.
Been there, done that. Sustain is awful it’s weaker than shiro/glint with obviously lower damage…
I think the Ele meta build will be Water/Earth/Tempest, of course. I also think we’re going to be looking at Sage or Mender’s Amulet. Additionally, I think Rune of the Sunless or Hoelbrak will be making appearances with their Condition Duration Reduction.
Shout longbow ranger still lacks condi cleanse though, and even if they were druid theyd have to invest in glyphs and condi removal on AF, making once again shout less used except heal and the elite. It would still fill a niche role, which the longbow ranger always have been, but yes more viable now if reflects are less present.
Eh, not necessarily. I’m thinking MM/WS/BM, which would bring Empathetic Bond and Shared Anguish. Have I tested this build? No. Could it suck? Maybe.
I have a mender’s amulet but the build editor didn’t update to include one as its stats compliment a burst healer/fighter hybrid and it was a tough call between eagle runes and runes of the centaur but the added swiftness from passing the tablet through allies was just too good.
Staff and double swords give good point control and rez stopping. Shiro for the typical control abilities and gap closer.
Ventari has on demand AoE cleanse. It’s inferior to druid’s healing seed but can be used more often since healing seed needs CA form and this would free the druid up for more CA lunar beam and black hole.
It’s quite expensive energy wise so I’m in the process of energy management. As for my thief:
Though I might replace sword/dagger with shortbow if boon corruption becomes too much of a problem and replace trickery with shadow arts if I can’t stay on an opponent while in stealth that well. That was acro’s old job but I’d be giving up too much for vigor on dodge and 50% movement speed in stealth since I’d need to take acro and shadow arts.
Been there, done that. Sustain is awful it’s weaker than shiro/glint with obviously lower damage…
Well of course it’s a tradeoff sacrifice some damage for Ventari utilities and extra healing output. Most players try optimizing damage anyway so there’d likely be no shortage of damage output. Maybe sage with Mallyx in place of Shiro would be better though I don’t really care for playing condition builds.
I have a mender’s amulet but the build editor didn’t update to include one as its stats compliment a burst healer/fighter hybrid and it was a tough call between eagle runes and runes of the centaur but the added swiftness from passing the tablet through allies was just too good.
Staff and double swords give good point control and rez stopping. Shiro for the typical control abilities and gap closer.
Ventari has on demand AoE cleanse. It’s inferior to druid’s healing seed but can be used more often since healing seed needs CA form and this would free the druid up for more CA lunar beam and black hole.
It’s quite expensive energy wise so I’m in the process of energy management. As for my thief:
Though I might replace sword/dagger with shortbow if boon corruption becomes too much of a problem and replace trickery with shadow arts if I can’t stay on an opponent while in stealth that well. That was acro’s old job but I’d be giving up too much for vigor on dodge and 50% movement speed in stealth since I’d need to take acro and shadow arts.
Been there, done that. Sustain is awful it’s weaker than shiro/glint with obviously lower damage…
Well of course it’s a tradeoff sacrifice some damage for Ventari utilities and extra healing output. Most players try optimizing damage anyway so there’d likely be no shortage of damage output. Maybe sage with Mallyx in place of Shiro would be better though I don’t really care for playing condition builds.
Problem is a point bunker has a minimum sustain requirement shiro/ventari can’t achieve that.
If you go mallyx/ventari with retribution/corruption/herald you would get something slightly better, still, team support wouldn’t be amazing.
And currently there isn’t anything that can get close to ventari/glint even after the shield and unwavering avoidance nerf.
The reason for that is that Ventari has a terrible sustain for the investment, and in pvp you can’t do support without being a bunker (you would be the focused imediatly).
Here is a cc spam thief s/p build that has tested well. The missing amulet is paladin amulet. Power 2,050 , armor 2589 , crit chance 62.57% , 17,245 health. I’ve tried the glassier iterations and they aren’t as playable. The idea is to counterplay and lockdown while killing in a 10-15 sec timeframe.
It’s a high mobility 1v1 build that leans on steal and dodge to keep your buffs up. sword 3 is obvious, but you can also pistol 4 or steal to interrupt. Lots and lots of damage from impacting disruption here. Perma swiftness and it self stacks of fury in the 10s range.
I have a mender’s amulet but the build editor didn’t update to include one as its stats compliment a burst healer/fighter hybrid and it was a tough call between eagle runes and runes of the centaur but the added swiftness from passing the tablet through allies was just too good.
Staff and double swords give good point control and rez stopping. Shiro for the typical control abilities and gap closer.
Ventari has on demand AoE cleanse. It’s inferior to druid’s healing seed but can be used more often since healing seed needs CA form and this would free the druid up for more CA lunar beam and black hole.
It’s quite expensive energy wise so I’m in the process of energy management. As for my thief:
Though I might replace sword/dagger with shortbow if boon corruption becomes too much of a problem and replace trickery with shadow arts if I can’t stay on an opponent while in stealth that well. That was acro’s old job but I’d be giving up too much for vigor on dodge and 50% movement speed in stealth since I’d need to take acro and shadow arts.
Been there, done that. Sustain is awful it’s weaker than shiro/glint with obviously lower damage…
Well of course it’s a tradeoff sacrifice some damage for Ventari utilities and extra healing output. Most players try optimizing damage anyway so there’d likely be no shortage of damage output. Maybe sage with Mallyx in place of Shiro would be better though I don’t really care for playing condition builds.
Problem is a point bunker has a minimum sustain requirement shiro/ventari can’t achieve that.
If you go mallyx/ventari with retribution/corruption/herald you would get something slightly better, still, team support wouldn’t be amazing.
And currently there isn’t anything that can get close to ventari/glint even after the shield and unwavering avoidance nerf.
The reason for that is that Ventari has a terrible sustain for the investment, and in pvp you can’t do support without being a bunker (you would be the focused imediatly).
Tested it and Ventari feels gimmicky and its long charge times are impractically long and the condition cleanse doesn’t cleanse enough, should half a half second cooldown at least since the AoE cleanse comes at a hefty energy cost.
I think there should be a panel where you can decide cleanse priority for conditions ensuring that the condition would be washed first in the queue (for all characters not just revenants): like you could set it to confusion first, then chill, slow, poison, weakness, burning, and so on down the line.
Here is a cc spam thief s/p build that has tested well. The missing amulet is paladin amulet. Power 2,050 , armor 2589 , crit chance 62.57% , 17,245 health. I’ve tried the glassier iterations and they aren’t as playable. The idea is to counterplay and lockdown while killing in a 10-15 sec timeframe.
It’s a high mobility 1v1 build that leans on steal and dodge to keep your buffs up. sword 3 is obvious, but you can also pistol 4 or steal to interrupt. Lots and lots of damage from impacting disruption here. Perma swiftness and it self stacks of fury in the 10s range.
, will show it tomorrow