Guild Wars 2

I will make an attempt to describe the current state of the thief and then understand how this state will be changed after the October patch.
Atm thieves are a bit forced into s/d or d/p (s/d being a bit better overall).
I can understand why s/d might needs some nerfing, but that nerfing should consist of evade reduce or a change to infi strike and not boon stealing shaving.
On the other hand d/p is squishy and not so viable against good players since they can predict when your burst is coming and pop defensive abilities (all the classes have sth like invulnerability), which leaves all d/p thieves in a state where they can only use shortbow in team fights and pick up targets between bases but most important not kill em since burst is not high enough and this makes em able to run away to a base and help their team.
So in the upcoming patch d/p is getting nerfed since rangers get a revealing skill.
Anet said taht they want to implement variety in builds, are they going to do that through making both viable builds bad?
Sorry for the wall of text but i wanted to express that feeling that you get when you see someone saying that A is B

To understand why, you have to look at the history of PvP. Originally, PvP was intended to cater to the hardcore player base. Classes were designed with that mindset. As it turned out, PvP tends to be more targeted to casual players or those who want to try new builds. Stealth is a tough mechanic for new players to fight against. That means stealth will always be a target.

inb4 moved to thief forum.

I made the same exact thread saying the same exact thing, sadly mods don’t care that NOBODY HERE CARES ABOUT PVE and if we post here it’s because we want to discuss about how changes to proffs will affect the meta.

All glass cannons are squishy.

So how do you see the thief post-patch?
S/d and d/p will both get nerfed. The question is, will the s/d nerf compensate the difference between the two builds atm in order to make a switch to d/p or we will have to play a simply put “worse s/d build”

ripman.4571:

So how do you see the thief post-patch?
S/d and d/p will both get nerfed. The question is, will the s/d nerf compensate the difference between the two builds atm in order to make a switch to d/p or we will have to play a simply put “worse s/d build”

You can play a superior build called Warrior. Not even trolling , I wish I was.

I think we won’t never be able to realy check the thief status since WvWers will post here their complains about Thieves.
I am not scared to admit that the current status of Thieves in tPvP in this current condition\CC meta, and in this conquest mode, is realy bad.
When I read topic about how to balance perma stealth thief in this subform (sPvP), I realy don’t know what to say.
Speccing for an heavy stealth thief in tPvP, means losing lot of potential damage and losing the ability of contest nodes or even put pressure on someone that is not totally specced glass cannon.
Now we are going to see nerfed the only realy available weapon set for this class.

A-NET 3 months ago, when there was that unkillable bunker meta, where guardians and eles were able to run with full buffed specs, you said that Thieves and Warriors were going to get some Boon hate as a counter to those spec, it was a smart decision for balancing that meta, but people started to complain like always, cos it is easier to complain than to adapt, and now you are going to do a step back once again).
I don’t care cos I have learnt to adapt patch after patch, but I would like to see you guys believe more in your choices.

Now I predict that the next complain about thieves will be the “perma blind” spec. Let’s see if in 1 or 2 months it will be nerfed too without any logic.

Shadow refugees, not thieves. Please fix the title accordingly.

Sword thief will probably get an evade nerf if they have any sense. BS d/p thief is balanced. Its powerful and effective and yet can be countered and killed.

Lordrosicky.5813:

Sword thief will probably get an evade nerf if they have any sense. BS d/p thief is balanced. Its powerful and effective and yet can be countered and killed.

Please tell me how D/P thieves are effective, when you can kill them with a standard necro condi rotation ( DS ( enfeebling blood), dark path, fear).

D/P thieves are no longer effective now due to conditions being out of control.

If they were ever going to nerf S/D thieves into the ground to unplayable ( not going to happen), the thief will simply disappear from the meta.

Mrbig.8019:

Lordrosicky.5813:

Sword thief will probably get an evade nerf if they have any sense. BS d/p thief is balanced. Its powerful and effective and yet can be countered and killed.

Please tell me how D/P thieves are effective, when you can kill them with a standard necro condi rotation ( DS ( enfeebling blood), dark path, fear).

D/P thieves are no longer effective now due to conditions being out of control.

If they were ever going to nerf S/D thieves into the ground to unplayable ( not going to happen), the thief will simply disappear from the meta.

Nah I have played with D/P thieves who are effective recently (not played hardly at all in a month but I have played a few days). I dont know how they are effective but they are. Maybe you should work on your game if you are not effective.

so you don’t know anything about D\P thieves in the current meta situation, but still you’re arguing that they are fine?
GJ mate
people with no clue should learn to don’t make useless statements.
Btw I can play with almost every class except Ranger cos it’s so hard to play with such a brainless class. I will adapt to the new thief post patch, I will check if there are still viable tournment specs, if not I’ll move on another class that fits better the meta.
You can say the same when you’re Necro or Warrior will be finally nerfed?

Lordrosicky.5813:

Mrbig.8019:

Lordrosicky.5813:

Sword thief will probably get an evade nerf if they have any sense. BS d/p thief is balanced. Its powerful and effective and yet can be countered and killed.

Please tell me how D/P thieves are effective, when you can kill them with a standard necro condi rotation ( DS ( enfeebling blood), dark path, fear).

D/P thieves are no longer effective now due to conditions being out of control.

If they were ever going to nerf S/D thieves into the ground to unplayable ( not going to happen), the thief will simply disappear from the meta.

Nah I have played with D/P thieves who are effective recently (not played hardly at all in a month but I have played a few days). I dont know how they are effective but they are. Maybe you should work on your game if you are not effective.

Currently the only good thief in EU running D/P is Starcraft. There’s no comparison between D/P and S/D, S/D is leagues ahead.

Every thief knows S/D is better than D/P, if they play D/P is just for the sake of being hipsters.

Don’t talk about thieves if you have no idea how they fare in the meta ( altough i’ve not been playing for a long time, too).

When every hit is not taking 25% or more of my health I will feel some sympathy.

Mrbig.8019:

Lordrosicky.5813:

Mrbig.8019:

Lordrosicky.5813:

Sword thief will probably get an evade nerf if they have any sense. BS d/p thief is balanced. Its powerful and effective and yet can be countered and killed.

Please tell me how D/P thieves are effective, when you can kill them with a standard necro condi rotation ( DS ( enfeebling blood), dark path, fear).

D/P thieves are no longer effective now due to conditions being out of control.

If they were ever going to nerf S/D thieves into the ground to unplayable ( not going to happen), the thief will simply disappear from the meta.

Nah I have played with D/P thieves who are effective recently (not played hardly at all in a month but I have played a few days). I dont know how they are effective but they are. Maybe you should work on your game if you are not effective.

Currently the only good thief in EU running D/P is Starcraft. There’s no comparison between D/P and S/D, S/D is leagues ahead.

Every thief knows S/D is better than D/P, if they play D/P is just for the sake of being hipsters.

Don’t talk about thieves if you have no idea how they fare in the meta ( altough i’ve not been playing for a long time, too).

I do know. And I know other thieves who run D/P successfully too.

Kolly.9872:

so you don’t know anything about D\P thieves in the current meta situation, but still you’re arguing that they are fine?
GJ mate
people with no clue should learn to don’t make useless statements.
Btw I can play with almost every class except Ranger cos it’s so hard to play with such a brainless class. I will adapt to the new thief post patch, I will check if there are still viable tournment specs, if not I’ll move on another class that fits better the meta.
You can say the same when you’re Necro or Warrior will be finally nerfed?

Ok pro man, obviously I dont have a clue and you on the other hand are bang up to date on the meta :/

Lordrosicky.5813:

Mrbig.8019:

Lordrosicky.5813:

Mrbig.8019:

Lordrosicky.5813:

Sword thief will probably get an evade nerf if they have any sense. BS d/p thief is balanced. Its powerful and effective and yet can be countered and killed.

Please tell me how D/P thieves are effective, when you can kill them with a standard necro condi rotation ( DS ( enfeebling blood), dark path, fear).

D/P thieves are no longer effective now due to conditions being out of control.

If they were ever going to nerf S/D thieves into the ground to unplayable ( not going to happen), the thief will simply disappear from the meta.

Nah I have played with D/P thieves who are effective recently (not played hardly at all in a month but I have played a few days). I dont know how they are effective but they are. Maybe you should work on your game if you are not effective.

Currently the only good thief in EU running D/P is Starcraft. There’s no comparison between D/P and S/D, S/D is leagues ahead.

Every thief knows S/D is better than D/P, if they play D/P is just for the sake of being hipsters.

Don’t talk about thieves if you have no idea how they fare in the meta ( altough i’ve not been playing for a long time, too).

I do know. And I know other thieves who run D/P successfully too.

It seems that while i’ve not been playing this game became full of hipsters.

Who would have known

And after nerf? PW buff much? lol

Mrbig.8019:

Lordrosicky.5813:

Sword thief will probably get an evade nerf if they have any sense. BS d/p thief is balanced. Its powerful and effective and yet can be countered and killed.

Please tell me how D/P thieves are effective, when you can kill them with a standard necro condi rotation ( DS ( enfeebling blood), dark path, fear).

D/P thieves are no longer effective now due to conditions being out of control.

If they were ever going to nerf S/D thieves into the ground to unplayable ( not going to happen), the thief will simply disappear from the meta.

Then you will join the ele/mesmer ranks.

I use D/P extremely effectively, I build for a ton of condi removal, much more than a S/D thief can run. I run it mostly because it happens to be an effective counter to warriors, enemy S/D thieves, and any caster that doesn’t have stability up, along with it’s powerful stomping power on downed enemies. I will also admit i DO run S/D on my weapon swap to deal with occasional eles and guards that are giving me a tough time, or even to kitten soemones stability so i can swap to D/P and land a Headshot. Point is i can tell you from plenty of experience D/P is still very effective in the meta, like it or not.

Heizero.9183:

I use D/P extremely effectively, I build for a ton of condi removal, much more than a S/D thief can run. I run it mostly because it happens to be an effective counter to warriors, enemy S/D thieves, and any caster that doesn’t have stability up, along with it’s powerful stomping power on downed enemies. I will also admit i DO run S/D on my weapon swap to deal with occasional eles and guards that are giving me a tough time, or even to kitten soemones stability so i can swap to D/P and land a Headshot. Point is i can tell you from plenty of experience D/P is still very effective in the meta, like it or not.

Sigh.

Going into Shadow arts is wasting damage potential. TOO MUCH damage potential, unless you can might stack efficiently with signets ( in that case you lose potential good utilities).

Moreover you lose shortbow mobility ( in your specific build).

There’s a reason why S/D is so strong, or rather:

1. contesting capabilities ( something you won’t be able to do in a stealth build)
2. unmatched mobility
3. good 1vs1 capabilities, even against the strongest meta builds, with wars maybe as an exception.
4. AoE cleave
5. Ability to snowball low hp classes everywhere without letting them escape.
6. Better sustained damage than D/P
7. Very good condi removal without sacrificing too much damage

D/P can’t do this, and altough D/P thieves basically counter wars and other S/D thieves, an S/D thief can overall perform better in almost every situation, unless you’re facing a 5 warrior team.

D/P burst doesn’t deal enough damage anymore, D/P far point assaulter is easily countered by any decent team putting a good AoE proff ( like the longbow war) at close, D/P trickery is a good build but the damage is ridicolously poor when compared to S/D, altough hipsters want to make themselves believe it’s a strong build up to par in the meta.

Think whatever you want, i just hope they buff/change Pistol Whip so i can play S/P and leave the bandwagon, altough i’ve been playing S/D from the start.

The only thing that d/p can do better than s/d is the burst, and some blinds.
In a team fights you should better use shortbow or just leave since you might die in 2 seconds if focused.
So if you are not into teamfights you should be either decaping (so you have to go into 1v1 situations, where d/p does not actually shine) or take care of objectives which is boring and you can do that as s/d aswell.
So i dont see an actual reason to use d/p.

Mrbig.8019:

D/P thieves are no longer effective now due to conditions being out of control.
.

A lot of builds are no longer effective because of conditions being out of control.

Mrbig.8019:

Heizero.9183:

I use D/P extremely effectively, I build for a ton of condi removal, much more than a S/D thief can run. I run it mostly because it happens to be an effective counter to warriors, enemy S/D thieves, and any caster that doesn’t have stability up, along with it’s powerful stomping power on downed enemies. I will also admit i DO run S/D on my weapon swap to deal with occasional eles and guards that are giving me a tough time, or even to kitten soemones stability so i can swap to D/P and land a Headshot. Point is i can tell you from plenty of experience D/P is still very effective in the meta, like it or not.

Sigh.

Going into Shadow arts is wasting damage potential. TOO MUCH damage potential, unless you can might stack efficiently with signets ( in that case you lose potential good utilities).

Moreover you lose shortbow mobility ( in your specific build).

There’s a reason why S/D is so strong, or rather:

1. contesting capabilities ( something you won’t be able to do in a stealth build)
2. unmatched mobility
3. good 1vs1 capabilities, even against the strongest meta builds, with wars maybe as an exception.
4. AoE cleave
5. Ability to snowball low hp classes everywhere without letting them escape.
6. Better sustained damage than D/P
7. Very good condi removal without sacrificing too much damage

D/P can’t do this, and altough D/P thieves basically counter wars and other S/D thieves, an S/D thief can overall perform better in almost every situation, unless you’re facing a 5 warrior team.

D/P burst doesn’t deal enough damage anymore, D/P far point assaulter is easily countered by any decent team putting a good AoE proff ( like the longbow war) at close, D/P trickery is a good build but the damage is ridicolously poor when compared to S/D, altough hipsters want to make themselves believe it’s a strong build up to par in the meta.

Think whatever you want, i just hope they buff/change Pistol Whip so i can play S/P and leave the bandwagon, altough i’ve been playing S/D from the start.

Yeh Sword is better. But thats cos it is brokenly OP and annoying. D/P isnt bad just because sword is better. In that case everything sucks

Lordrosicky.5813:

Mrbig.8019:

Heizero.9183:

I use D/P extremely effectively, I build for a ton of condi removal, much more than a S/D thief can run. I run it mostly because it happens to be an effective counter to warriors, enemy S/D thieves, and any caster that doesn’t have stability up, along with it’s powerful stomping power on downed enemies. I will also admit i DO run S/D on my weapon swap to deal with occasional eles and guards that are giving me a tough time, or even to kitten soemones stability so i can swap to D/P and land a Headshot. Point is i can tell you from plenty of experience D/P is still very effective in the meta, like it or not.

Sigh.

Going into Shadow arts is wasting damage potential. TOO MUCH damage potential, unless you can might stack efficiently with signets ( in that case you lose potential good utilities).

Moreover you lose shortbow mobility ( in your specific build).

There’s a reason why S/D is so strong, or rather:

1. contesting capabilities ( something you won’t be able to do in a stealth build)
2. unmatched mobility
3. good 1vs1 capabilities, even against the strongest meta builds, with wars maybe as an exception.
4. AoE cleave
5. Ability to snowball low hp classes everywhere without letting them escape.
6. Better sustained damage than D/P
7. Very good condi removal without sacrificing too much damage

D/P can’t do this, and altough D/P thieves basically counter wars and other S/D thieves, an S/D thief can overall perform better in almost every situation, unless you’re facing a 5 warrior team.

D/P burst doesn’t deal enough damage anymore, D/P far point assaulter is easily countered by any decent team putting a good AoE proff ( like the longbow war) at close, D/P trickery is a good build but the damage is ridicolously poor when compared to S/D, altough hipsters want to make themselves believe it’s a strong build up to par in the meta.

Think whatever you want, i just hope they buff/change Pistol Whip so i can play S/P and leave the bandwagon, altough i’ve been playing S/D from the start.

Yeh Sword is better. But thats cos it is brokenly OP and annoying. D/P isnt bad just because sword is better. In that case everything sucks

Inf strike is OP. Flanking strike is cheap. There’s a difference.

Just fixing Inf strike by putting range requirments in order to use it ( like D/P shadow shot) and blocking z-axis pathing would fix the whole set.

Flanking strike is fine, it’s just a freaking evade.

D/P is bad in current meta, since in order to have good condi removal ( Lyssa in this case ) you lose a very good damage boost due to dagger damage having ridicoolously low base damage but scaling EXTREMELY HIGH with power.

By simply putting power runes with damage multipliers ( ogre or scholar) you boost your overall damage by something like 15-20%.

If you do it , you get demolished by any random condi proffs, and will get melted as soon as you jump on your target by condi cleaves.

If you don’t, and pick Lyssa, you have a slightly better chance to survive to condi cleave, but you lose a good chunk of damage, on a build that already doesn’t deal anymore enough damage even when built full burst.

It’s not that Sword is better, it’s simply that D/P is not even up to par: it’s on the same league of shatter mesmers and eles, and we all know they’re NOT that viable, unless you build them completely differently.

S/D has a good skill ceiling, altough being OP.

Thieves that currently prefer D/P are doing it just for the sake of being hipsters, or because they feel bad when they annhilate mesmers and eles in teamfights.

But again, the culprit is Inf strike, and anyway, S/D thief is barely up to par with meta ridicolousness ( wars, necros, spirit rangers).

If wars had stealth, you would never see a thief again in tPvP as far as we talk about current meta.

Mrbig.8019:

Heizero.9183:

I use D/P extremely effectively, I build for a ton of condi removal, much more than a S/D thief can run. I run it mostly because it happens to be an effective counter to warriors, enemy S/D thieves, and any caster that doesn’t have stability up, along with it’s powerful stomping power on downed enemies. I will also admit i DO run S/D on my weapon swap to deal with occasional eles and guards that are giving me a tough time, or even to kitten soemones stability so i can swap to D/P and land a Headshot. Point is i can tell you from plenty of experience D/P is still very effective in the meta, like it or not.

Sigh.

Going into Shadow arts is wasting damage potential. TOO MUCH damage potential, unless you can might stack efficiently with signets ( in that case you lose potential good utilities).

Moreover you lose shortbow mobility ( in your specific build).

There’s a reason why S/D is so strong, or rather:

1. contesting capabilities ( something you won’t be able to do in a stealth build)
2. unmatched mobility
3. good 1vs1 capabilities, even against the strongest meta builds, with wars maybe as an exception.
4. AoE cleave
5. Ability to snowball low hp classes everywhere without letting them escape.
6. Better sustained damage than D/P
7. Very good condi removal without sacrificing too much damage

D/P can’t do this, and altough D/P thieves basically counter wars and other S/D thieves, an S/D thief can overall perform better in almost every situation, unless you’re facing a 5 warrior team.

D/P burst doesn’t deal enough damage anymore, D/P far point assaulter is easily countered by any decent team putting a good AoE proff ( like the longbow war) at close, D/P trickery is a good build but the damage is ridicolously poor when compared to S/D, altough hipsters want to make themselves believe it’s a strong build up to par in the meta.

Think whatever you want, i just hope they buff/change Pistol Whip so i can play S/P and leave the bandwagon, altough i’ve been playing S/D from the start.

I never said S/D wasn’t strong. I said D/P is still also very strong and should not be ruled out. Idc if you think otherwise, i can only speak from my own experience. I use D/P very efficiently with great results, and actually blow up LB/Hammer wars believe it or not. I have tested many builds on my thief. Many. Many builds, and i have settled on a perfect balance between SA/Acro with enough condi to last in this meta. I also do ALOT of burst regardless of what you say and have no problems taking down my targets in a timely manner, ESPECIALLY as a far node harasser/ second objective assaulter.

ripman.4571:

On the other hand d/p is squishy and not so viable against good players since they can predict when your burst is coming and pop defensive abilities

Wow, how unfair. Devs you must remove this horrible design right now.

GankSinatra.2653:

ripman.4571:

On the other hand d/p is squishy and not so viable against good players since they can predict when your burst is coming and pop defensive abilities

Wow, how unfair. Devs you must remove this horrible design right now.

Yeah, burst should always come from stealth and the target should have no idea when he’s going to get 1-2 shotted. It’s totally unfair to give some sort of chance to react at all before he’s downed.

Gallrvaghn.4921:

GankSinatra.2653:

ripman.4571:

On the other hand d/p is squishy and not so viable against good players since they can predict when your burst is coming and pop defensive abilities

Wow, how unfair. Devs you must remove this horrible design right now.

Yeah, burst should always come from stealth and the target should have no idea when he’s going to get 1-2 shotted. It’s totally unfair to give some sort of chance to react at all before he’s downed.

So lets see, you rly think taht thief can one shot ppl right now? especially d/p build.
Backstab dmg agaisnt warrior,guardian is 5k at best, both of em have sth like 20k hp.
Agaisnt engis,rangers is sth like 7k, i dont think i need to say anything about rangers. Against engis d/p thief has equal chances.
Necros…..nuff said. Mesmers are out of meta so it does not make a difference if they get owned by d/p or s/d and eles can beat d/p if played correctly.
But all of these classes (except mesmers) have some form of invulnerability which helps em avoid being BSed, so where is your problem agaisnt d/p thieves?
Stealth? Why do you feel the need to cry so much about it? Use AoE and the thief will run away, yes you wont kill him but you will be able to capture the node and he will just run away being useless. Grow up ppl. Yes back in 2012 bs builds were broken but now they are just fine, just out of condi meta.

ripman.4571:

So lets see, you rly think taht thief can one shot ppl right now? especially d/p build.
Backstab dmg agaisnt warrior,guardian is 5k at best, both of em have sth like 20k hp.
Agaisnt engis,rangers is sth like 7k, i dont think i need to say anything about rangers. Against engis d/p thief has equal chances.
Necros…..nuff said. Mesmers are out of meta so it does not make a difference if they get owned by d/p or s/d and eles can beat d/p if played correctly.
But all of these classes (except mesmers) have some form of invulnerability which helps em avoid being BSed, so where is your problem agaisnt d/p thieves?
Stealth? Why do you feel the need to cry so much about it? Use AoE and the thief will run away, yes you wont kill him but you will be able to capture the node and he will just run away being useless. Grow up ppl. Yes back in 2012 bs builds were broken but now they are just fine, just out of condi meta.

What Guardian has 20k hp?

So you accept the rest and your problem is the guardian, right. Even if no guardian has that much hp (honest mistake) a d/p thief cant kill bunker guardian, and can not kill a dps guardian unless the guardian desides to pick up a fight. Lets say taht the thief initiates the burst which is 10k dmg if backstab crits lightning procs and steal deals sth like 2k dmg. Guardian can then pop shield, blocks, aegis or whatever he has and run away, heal. Where is the problem?

ripman.4571:

So you accept the rest and your problem is the guardian, right. Even if no guardian has that much hp (honest mistake) a d/p thief cant kill bunker guardian, and can not kill a dps guardian unless the guardian desides to pick up a fight. Lets say taht the thief initiates the burst which is 10k dmg if backstab crits lightning procs and steal deals sth like 2k dmg. Guardian can then pop shield, blocks, aegis or whatever he has and run away, heal. Where is the problem?

So a guardian builds so he won’t die and has next to no DPS unless you spam one while he has retal up.

SHOULD you be able to kill him?

This is what we all bunker guardian (rulling the meta scene since the very beggining)
You think he needs a buff? lol
Get some brain before coming here to prove me wrong

K U T M.4539:

ripman.4571:

So you accept the rest and your problem is the guardian, right. Even if no guardian has that much hp (honest mistake) a d/p thief cant kill bunker guardian, and can not kill a dps guardian unless the guardian desides to pick up a fight. Lets say taht the thief initiates the burst which is 10k dmg if backstab crits lightning procs and steal deals sth like 2k dmg. Guardian can then pop shield, blocks, aegis or whatever he has and run away, heal. Where is the problem?

So a guardian builds so he won’t die and has next to no DPS unless you spam one while he has retal up.

SHOULD you be able to kill him?

Yes.

There are many builds which can easily kill a guardian 1vs1.

Necro
Engi
Ranger
Shatter mesmer.
War.

D/P thief was able to do it pre-nerf. S/D thief was able to do it pre-dec nerf.

The only classes who are now not able to do it are thieves ( unless you fight for an hour against him with S/D) and eles ( unless you fight for an hour against him and land ALL your bursts: probably a fresh air build could be able to do it, never really tested it).

Finally someone with brain….

ripman.4571:

Finally someone with brain….

Still i believe S/D should nerfed.

But again, nor shaving its damage neither its boon stealing will change how S/D works and why S/D thieves demolish other power classes.

The culprit is too much evasiveness, and i’m not talking about FS evade.

Put range requirments to Inf strike and fix how ti goes through Z-Axis and the set will be fixed.

The thief has more needs to be buffed than nerfed.

Mrbig.8019:

K U T M.4539:

ripman.4571:

So you accept the rest and your problem is the guardian, right. Even if no guardian has that much hp (honest mistake) a d/p thief cant kill bunker guardian, and can not kill a dps guardian unless the guardian desides to pick up a fight. Lets say taht the thief initiates the burst which is 10k dmg if backstab crits lightning procs and steal deals sth like 2k dmg. Guardian can then pop shield, blocks, aegis or whatever he has and run away, heal. Where is the problem?

So a guardian builds so he won’t die and has next to no DPS unless you spam one while he has retal up.

SHOULD you be able to kill him?

Yes.

There are many builds which can easily kill a guardian 1vs1.

Necro
Engi
Ranger
Shatter mesmer.
War.

D/P thief was able to do it pre-nerf. S/D thief was able to do it pre-dec nerf.

The only classes who are now not able to do it are thieves ( unless you fight for an hour against him with S/D) and eles ( unless you fight for an hour against him and land ALL your bursts: probably a fresh air build could be able to do it, never really tested it).

I wasn’t serious about that, of course people can kill bunkers. So can D/P thieves. Most just aren’t patient enough for it, and a big majority of them don’t know how to keep up sustained damage.

If you are able to perma anything, I would expect future nerfs.

Perma blind
Perma stun
Perma stealth

None of these things will last.

Thieves needto be nerfed. Certain builds played by people with a pulse have extremely high damage, high damage avoidance, and escapability and are basically unbeatable 1 v1.

Well, S/D and D/P both required very high ceiling of skill level to play effectively. Both build are not easy to play and required long hours to learn in order to play it effectively( not like spirit rangers or regen warrior)

S/D: I rarely find any amazing S/D user in tourney, most of them are just spam #3 and #2 to disengage, they don’t know there are few rotation of #3 + dodge +#1, watch jumper replay. It’s a really HARD build to play effectively.

D/P: Not a easy build as well, most important of using d/p is positioning, and manage ur iniviative and CDs.There are several of burst rotation, for example: Stab/steal, 5/2+infi signet/stab, 3+ infi sig …. and lots more. After u burst ur enemy u have to reposition urself and use SB in a team fight situation. Current D/P meta is 30 trickery ( caed’s build), Caed and Muffinz (30 trickery user) have extremely strong mindset and concept of thief. They burst down enemy real quick, reposition, predicting enemy move in order to counter them.

Finally, i think S/D damage need to tone down a lil bit, and their mobility. D/P is fairly balance but lack of condition remove, biggest problem is weakness if enemy landed a weakness on you u basically GG lol

First of all the whole meta needs to change, warriors can’t have 5 stuns in their arsenal and that endure pain bullkitten needs to have a longer cd. D/p is just fine but it just does not fit in the current meta. As for s/d, there is no reason to nerf dmg, dodge needs to be reduced and change a bit infi strike cuz I feel bad for the enemy when I can just port back on demand. Also dagger offhand needs rework, since it is absolutely useless.

K U T M.4539:

ripman.4571:

So lets see, you rly think taht thief can one shot ppl right now? especially d/p build.
Backstab dmg agaisnt warrior,guardian is 5k at best, both of em have sth like 20k hp.
Agaisnt engis,rangers is sth like 7k, i dont think i need to say anything about rangers. Against engis d/p thief has equal chances.
Necros…..nuff said. Mesmers are out of meta so it does not make a difference if they get owned by d/p or s/d and eles can beat d/p if played correctly.
But all of these classes (except mesmers) have some form of invulnerability which helps em avoid being BSed, so where is your problem agaisnt d/p thieves?
Stealth? Why do you feel the need to cry so much about it? Use AoE and the thief will run away, yes you wont kill him but you will be able to capture the node and he will just run away being useless. Grow up ppl. Yes back in 2012 bs builds were broken but now they are just fine, just out of condi meta.

What Guardian has 20k hp?

Those numbers made me lol too. Move along now. Nothing to see here folks.

who cares about thieves anymore… everyone knows necros, engis and rangers are god teir now… OH wait the only ppl kittening about thieves are the ones that spam aoes and cant dodge a larcenous strike cause their condition spam have made them numb to skill

Gallrvaghn.4921:

What Guardian has 20k hp?

Yeah. Am still laughing. Every time a thief hits you 20-30% of your health vanishes as a Guardian.