Guild Wars 2

Im sorry anet but i cant wrap my head around this. I havent been playing as much i admit but when i PvP everyone is using a condi build.

Warriors with mace/shields and sword/torch, mesmers scrappers, all of them are going full condi. The only classes that are not is ele which is a support build atm and a bunker druid. Thief and DH are still falling behind.

Even the OP rev is going back to condi for alot of the average players because simply put its almost impossible to deal with all the conditions being thrown around.

You changed warriors gun flame for its dps in WvW so not its not really all that useful in PvP. You changed the staff 5 skill of rev. Now revs are struggling to kill the more bunkery/sustain players in the time needed since everyone has ridiculous sustain and bursts.

Im sorry but HOT brought nothing to this game WvW and PvP wise. Seriously this is horrible.

You brought back old borderlands because you threw out crap. Now every class in the game PvP has literally 1 decent build. Im not gonna write a thread like chaith did on how to fix a class because its your job to make the game playable.

Hot brought guild halls which kind of suck, a new WvW which you took away because it sucked and PvP has become a complete joke with no leader boards, build diveristy, and a dying Ag tournament which use to be very good and active.

I will congratulate you on PvE areas because they are alot of funs, havent been able to find a raid group at my time which i put on myself but seriously the 2 areas i play most are completely useless as a expansion.

I bring it up because i just watched the Spring Update video and im sitting here like you are talking dynamics/ build changes for better improving raid teams.

Talking about slivers just being handed out and heres the thing, people dont want it it to be easy. Raid players dont want raids to be easy, people who scribe dont want it to be easy, PvP players dont want builds to be brain dead and easy.

This has to be the most frustrating aspect listening to Hugh talk. Hes talking about balance and god mode and the beta situation. UMMMMMMMMM we had it for HOT and no one listened.

Each forum for each class outside of PvP has threads with great suggestions on how to fix classes yet Anet takes a rocket launcher to that idea.

The d/d god meta? The burn damage? Before HOT these things were insane and it took forever to fix. Now these 2 things are completely gone and are useless.

Nobody wanted burn guardians to die and no one wanted core builds to be wiped from the face of GW2. Not only that no one wanted people taking those crappy builds and walking into Legendary in Season 2.

Rant is over but just like most of the people in that spring update video were laughing at all the messed up things in the game. I am to but mostly at the idea that things were fixed.

why not? or you want to lose ….

etc. a condi warrior can make 50000-70000+ damage in one or two sec with control. i don’t think a power warrior can do this.

xeonage.1253:

why not? or you want to lose ….

I think s/he would want to play the game and not let the game play it for you.

Fat Disgrace.4275:

xeonage.1253:

why not? or you want to lose ….

I think s/he would want to play the game and not let the game play it for you.

In this HOT patch. you have no choice or go lose. Condi is out of control.

May be for conquest maps (which are boring anyway) but the likes of wvw roaming and even champions dusk, power builds are still very strong

Fat Disgrace.4275:

May be for conquest maps (which are boring anyway) but the likes of wvw roaming and even champions dusk, power builds are still very strong

WvW is very different since you can have different builds. I see alot of old school bunker guardians with shouts and reflects. Heck i have even seen ventari revs who are incredibly useful. The builds for this are different since you are fighting in groups of 20-30-40-50.
Thats very different.

Also please dont say its the same as stronghold ummmm no its not. This is me and 2 guild mates with 2 necro MM condi builds and a condi engy from last season. Condi has been the meta since HOT came out for PvP. Not just for 1-2-3 classes but every class.

I see 3 professions using condi right now as it is more viable than their direct dmg options, the other professions all go for direct dmg. U can also watch ur dmg eaten after each game and u will most likely never have a game where condi dmg will be higher than direct. So classes using condis right now to be useful are necro, mesmer and warrior. Engi has to play direct dmg cause the pp condi is just to troll ppl, thief uses direct dmg, rev same, druid also, ele cause cleric has power and guard is not viable but would also play a direct damage orientated build. Where is the condi meta?

kdaddy.5431:

Im sorry anet but i cant wrap my head around this. I havent been playing as much i admit but when i PvP everyone is using a condi build.

Warriors with mace/shields and sword/torch, mesmers scrappers, all of them are going full condi. The only classes that are not is ele which is a support build atm and a bunker druid. Thief and DH are still falling behind.

Even the OP rev is going back to condi for alot of the average players because simply put its almost impossible to deal with all the conditions being thrown around.

You changed warriors gun flame for its dps in WvW so not its not really all that useful in PvP. You changed the staff 5 skill of rev. Now revs are struggling to kill the more bunkery/sustain players in the time needed since everyone has ridiculous sustain and bursts.

Im sorry but HOT brought nothing to this game WvW and PvP wise. Seriously this is horrible.

You brought back old borderlands because you threw out crap. Now every class in the game PvP has literally 1 decent build. Im not gonna write a thread like chaith did on how to fix a class because its your job to make the game playable.

Hot brought guild halls which kind of suck, a new WvW which you took away because it sucked and PvP has become a complete joke with no leader boards, build diveristy, and a dying Ag tournament which use to be very good and active.

I will congratulate you on PvE areas because they are alot of funs, havent been able to find a raid group at my time which i put on myself but seriously the 2 areas i play most are completely useless as a expansion.

I bring it up because i just watched the Spring Update video and im sitting here like you are talking dynamics/ build changes for better improving raid teams.

Talking about slivers just being handed out and heres the thing, people dont want it it to be easy. Raid players dont want raids to be easy, people who scribe dont want it to be easy, PvP players dont want builds to be brain dead and easy.

This has to be the most frustrating aspect listening to Hugh talk. Hes talking about balance and god mode and the beta situation. UMMMMMMMMM we had it for HOT and no one listened.

Each forum for each class outside of PvP has threads with great suggestions on how to fix classes yet Anet takes a rocket launcher to that idea.

The d/d god meta? The burn damage? Before HOT these things were insane and it took forever to fix. Now these 2 things are completely gone and are useless.

Nobody wanted burn guardians to die and no one wanted core builds to be wiped from the face of GW2. Not only that no one wanted people taking those crappy builds and walking into Legendary in Season 2.

Rant is over but just like most of the people in that spring update video were laughing at all the messed up things in the game. I am to but mostly at the idea that things were fixed.

Correction.

They are not pure condition builds. They are hybrids.

1050 power is a LOT of damage contribution.

Remember condition requires skill. Only intelligent and skilled people play condi. This rubbish is the main argument thrown arround to defend condition builds. They are supposedly more skillfull. I have my doubts about that, as far as i can see condition dmg has several… Let’s say blind spots with regards to balance. This may be the main reason i detest condition builds. Quite often they are used to kill the unknowing easily and pose a thread to those familiar with them, while the user has quite often to put less effort into playing it. Those people tend to gloat and advertise uncomplete game mechanics like this as a l2p issue.

To end this late night rant: yes the increase in condi play is, imho, a direct result of people taking the most effective route to killing lots of players that are not prepared for them. The more condition application and dmg are increased the more people will use it.

If you can dodge dmg they should give more anti condi stuff. More resistance and more condi cleanses to all.

You can dodge condi attacks too mang.

kdaddy.5431:

Fat Disgrace.4275:

May be for conquest maps (which are boring anyway) but the likes of wvw roaming and even champions dusk, power builds are still very strong

WvW is very different since you can have different builds. I see alot of old school bunker guardians with shouts and reflects. Heck i have even seen ventari revs who are incredibly useful. The builds for this are different since you are fighting in groups of 20-30-40-50.
Thats very different.

Also please dont say its the same as stronghold ummmm no its not. This is me and 2 guild mates with 2 necro MM condi builds and a condi engy from last season. Condi has been the meta since HOT came out for PvP. Not just for 1-2-3 classes but every class.

why did you show me 2 screen shots of a score bored? and i know stronk hold is different, thats why power builds work there. much more freedom and nothing to fight over (only supply and lord rooms) compared to 5 nodes.

Condition comes in when condi removal goes out. When condi removal comes back in, condition builds go out. It is a vicious cycle called meta trends.

Cecilia.5179:

Condition comes in when condi removal goes out. When condi removal comes back in, condition builds go out. It is a vicious cycle called meta trends.

But what is the meta?

No Condition builds.

They are hybrids.

You still get direct damage.

Best way imo to start messing with condi balance is to revert the stacking of all condis outside of bleeding, torment, and confusion in pvp. (basically pre condi free stack change) Every other part of the game would remain the same so condi can be used in pve but pvp is not capable of being balanced with condis able to stack as much as they can. Remember, the game was pretty balanced right before HoT came out. I think rather than scaling everything up to new power levels and making everything else stronger, they need to tone down the game to pre HoT levels. If that means nerfing the hell out of all especs and things relative to the expansion then so be it. The point is the game will never be enjoyed fully until relative balance is achieved and gimmick builds are destroyed.

Fat Disgrace.4275:

kdaddy.5431:

Fat Disgrace.4275:

May be for conquest maps (which are boring anyway) but the likes of wvw roaming and even champions dusk, power builds are still very strong

WvW is very different since you can have different builds. I see alot of old school bunker guardians with shouts and reflects. Heck i have even seen ventari revs who are incredibly useful. The builds for this are different since you are fighting in groups of 20-30-40-50.
Thats very different.

Also please dont say its the same as stronghold ummmm no its not. This is me and 2 guild mates with 2 necro MM condi builds and a condi engy from last season. Condi has been the meta since HOT came out for PvP. Not just for 1-2-3 classes but every class.

why did you show me 2 screen shots of a score bored? and i know stronk hold is different, thats why power builds work there. much more freedom and nothing to fight over (only supply and lord rooms) compared to 5 nodes.

Those screen prints if you actually took the time to look.

• Is a stronghold match
• Us winning 3 vs 5 in a ranked match
  *All 3 of us using hybrid condi builds

Sure you can say power builds work but guess what condi still rules the land and im showing it threw the screen prints which you couldnt put together.

Fat Disgrace.4275:

May be for conquest maps (which are boring anyway) but the likes of wvw roaming and even champions dusk, power builds are still very strong

um yea…except the king of wvw roaming is a Dire PU spec cancer perplexity condi mesmer build.

StickerHappy.8052:

Cecilia.5179:

Condition comes in when condi removal goes out. When condi removal comes back in, condition builds go out. It is a vicious cycle called meta trends.

But what is the meta?

No Condition builds.

They are hybrids.

You still get direct damage.

They are hybrid thats a fair point but we are using condi to kill people. You know this build and its built on passive life stealing/ passive damage/ and condi pressure.

We do decent actual dps but we were trying to constantly bleed/chill/ and poison. This is the exact same necro build my guild used in season 1 and 2 to get a 24th and 27th ranked guild team.

And 2 people on that guild team have not even hit level 50 in pvp and are beating legendary ranked players.

Now these players are not bad but it hits 2 points.

1- Its more build and team comp
2- Knowing how to play the match ups and rotations

In this match we have players who could not deal with our 3 man condi pressure and minions.

What im trying to say is there is no power build other then rev that out plays a condi build. You call them a hybrid which is fine but 75% of these builds damage are coming from condi.

Warriors are doing burn,confusion,bleed and weakness damage. The 1050 power damage is just a bonus.

To me this is why HOT is failing from a PvP perspective. Every class can easily apply heavy amounts of condi damage and constantly reapply it. Yet only rev can put out the dps to beat all the sustain hybrid builds in the game.

I am still playing POWRR WARRIOR.. condi warrior is probably the opest build atm, but it’s not challenging enough for my liking.

And yes, we need an anti condi stats since condi has overtaken powrr as the main source of dmg.

Darknicrofia.2604:

Fat Disgrace.4275:

May be for conquest maps (which are boring anyway) but the likes of wvw roaming and even champions dusk, power builds are still very strong

um yea…except the king of wvw roaming is a Dire PU spec cancer perplexity condi mesmer build.

ONLY if the enemy facing this sort of thing hangs around and trys to fight it.

xeonage.1253:

Fat Disgrace.4275:

xeonage.1253:

why not? or you want to lose ….

I think s/he would want to play the game and not let the game play it for you.

In this HOT patch. you have no choice or go lose. Condi is out of control.

True that Condition is OP and Condi is out of control, but saying you have no choice is a lie, I play a spec close to pre-patch engi power hammer meta and is doing really good. 1vs1 fights I mostly win and are doing really good in team fights. What I think is wrong though is that there are so many condi aplications that are AoE and needs no timing or planning, just spam your skills and hope you oponents can’t cleanse it in time.

I don’t mind condi being this strong though but what I think is wrong is that a strong condi build can be a stong tanky build too compaired to a stong power build who needs atleast Pow and Prec (but would be best with Fero too) to do great damage but with that the build loses survivability (Called glass cannon).

Somewhere along the way ArenaNet stopped asking themselves if new things would be fun/engaging to fight against.
I get why a lot of people like to play condition heavy builds. They’re typically very efficient, easier to play and far more forgiving then their power counterparts. But I don’t think I know a single person who prefers to play against a condi spec over power (and I suspect that group is a very tiny minority). Power builds simply tend to cause more dynamic fights with more visibility/clarity, better counterplay options and less focus on hard counters.
I can see why, as a designer, you might get caught in this one-sides perspective (especially when such a large portion of the game is PvE) but it’s a trend that’s been going for a while now, and it’s really taken a big toll on the game.

problem is many people think that who is attacking condi dmg in this game is refering to carrion or similar type of amulets, wich is 100% based on condi dmg. Instead the problem come out from those hybrid, causing the direct dmg doing more than 60% of the dmg, and the condi doing the finisher, while maybe the opponent start to kite or start trying to gain time for his cds. The difference between a full zerk and a condi ibrid, is that against a full zerk if you dont get oneshotted in a few combo, you can recover from it very easily, just by managing your coldowns/healing/evades, or just by CC the opponent! Cuz when the opponent zerker is CCed, there’s no condi putting pressure on you at that time!!!

Oh also i can add that is true that usualy direct dmg recieved is higher than condi dmg recieved (not for me i’m playing revenant and i always have more condi dmg recieved, like a lot!!), but would be interesting to see how many kills in the match have been caused by direct dmg or a condi thick… i already have the answer, cuz no matter wich class i use, is rlly rare that i die from a direct attack, while often i die cuz running out of condi cleanser and not be able to kite that condi thicking.

Fat Disgrace.4275:

Darknicrofia.2604:

Fat Disgrace.4275:

May be for conquest maps (which are boring anyway) but the likes of wvw roaming and even champions dusk, power builds are still very strong

um yea…except the king of wvw roaming is a Dire PU spec cancer perplexity condi mesmer build.

ONLY if the enemy facing this sort of thing hangs around and trys to fight it.

That’s like saying “ONLY” if the mesmer logs in that given day and plays the build.
I hope you see the flaw in arguing against something being OP in a supposedly PvP game mode by stating “only if you fight it”

You are supposed to fight it, it’s PvP. Any build encouraging passive gameplay and dodging fights should be permanently deleted (should not even exist in the first place)

This is true. Direct damage is the major damage, but condi often finishes the job.
I did build mesmer on this concep long ago even using ramapger. It was for PvE but its clearly the concep to maximize damake due to power + condi.
I also mixed viper into my WvW elementalist to increase punch for a hybrid.
There is no true condi meta and only 3 classes(propalbly meta builds) are condi. But there are a lot of side conditions like criple, blind …. And death often comes from condies after beeing hit multiple times.
I have an alt warrior. Its power based but i use bleed and weakness on CC. This leaves the impression of condi spam .. I use weakness to reduce damage but CC like stomp, kick and rifle butt even hit multiple targets. And this warrior has seven CC skills.

Its kittened how ppl thinks that condi dmg is more relevant than power dmg when even condi builds are actually hybrid builds.

Typical kdaddy complaint thread

Jelzouki.4128:

Typical kdaddy complaint thread

lol thank you

This game would be so much better if they had deleted all that condi dealing damage crap. Conditions should be opposition of a boon – debuffs, nothing else.

Burtnik.5218:

This game would be so much better if they had deleted all that condi dealing damage crap. Conditions should be opposition of a boon – debuffs, nothing else.

i proposed this so many times, i would save:
weakness
blind
cripple
immobilize
chill
slow
poison no more deal dmg, but your heal skills lose 90% of their effectiveness and 50% effectiveness outgoing healing to allies
vulnerability would be buffed, so that when you reach 25 stack, protection and any trait/skill that reduce dmg lose any effectiveness. You are still able to block/evade skill when you have 25 stack.
confusion and torment deleted, they are stupid conditions that punish the opponent to play and reward him to not playing, their mechanic is bad designed. I have a nice idea on confusion, making it work somelike caos in FF, means 20% of your dmg is dealt to allies too, like if you trow an aoe on allies and enemy when affected by confusion, you deal normal dmg to opponents but 20% to allies also. This would be to counter mindless aoe spam affecting this game.
Burning deleted. It’s not a DoT, just compensate any skill/trait that apply burning by increasing his direct dmg. Same goes with bleeding.
Delete condition dmg stat, only condition duration allowed.

Result: easier balance, no kittened carried by conditions. More funny gameplay.
But this will never happen thx to pve, so many boss created in pve are based on condi.
Remember that is thx to pvers that we had condi buff, they asked for it, time to separate balance between pvp and pve?

War, Mes, Nec are the only viable condi builds. Rev is the second most viable but often situational and not as efficient. Then you have everyone else.

Classes who have 0 issues with condi 1v1,
Druid – unless they’re heavily cc’d in the process (like war), but druid should win 100-0.
Engi – The fight will either last way too long to even care, or engi will win.
Ele – Basically same as engi.

Everyone else will likely lose to War (50% chance but depends on the war) or Mes but Necro has the shorter end of the stick when it comes to 1v1 effectiveness.

The only condition they should fix is confusion. that condition is down right brain dead.
It’s completly biased due to how conditions are cleared. It should always be the first one cleared.

If you bury that trash vs a thief or low clearing profession it’s an instant win. the thief will have to blow all his ultilties to clear while dodging. which means he just took a kitten ton of damage(if not dead), he is on full CD (ulti) and out of Initiative (if they used inf strike to clear). it’s just plain dumb. considering a ranger can hit a button and clear 12 conditions.

Why the rebuffed that kitten is beyond me. it was litterly one of the first thing they nerfed in this game. and it was pretty much one of the few legitimate nerfs.

Im just gonna leave it here. Tbh i dont even know how i managed to kill this dude with 3 attacks but w/e. Back in the old days it wouldnt happen cause condiw as designed to wear ppl slowly but not it can “burst”. I mean this is ridiculous and you go full defensive stats while still hitting just as hard as berserker.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XlQE9coHRco

^ is WvW. WvW balance is compleeetely different.

If people don’t know how to deal with condis after so many years, there’s really no words. No…. words.
I feel like posting that “when will you learn!” Kid again.

MethaneGas.8357:

^ is WvW. WvW balance is compleeetely different.

If people don’t know how to deal with condis after so many years, there’s really no words. No…. words.
I feel like posting that “when will you learn!” Kid again.

Makes no difference. Conditions are broken and insane both wvw and spvp. That shouldnt happen, at all. There was never such thing as “condition burst” before. Conditions were “balanced” at the aspect of slowly ramping up damage and outsustaining your opponent with defensive stats. Due to pve complains now conditions hit just as hard if not harder than power. That kitten is out of control.

Old Terrormancer Necro (and then afterwards Dhuumfire) had decent condi burst. Condi engi (after perplexity), condi mes (after perplexity).. condi ranger, condi thief and condi warr… it all always had burst if you let it burst you, but before it was easier to cleanse by yourself. You used the example above, sure, but if you had 3 peeps with you and fought 3 enemies and they had a shout warrior, you’d deal like no damage. I can just as easily say cleansing is broken because there’s times where you deal like no damage in a condi build because of crazy enemy cleanse.

Saying condi is broken in sPvP also couldn’t be farther from the truth. One of the biggest things carrying condi mes (imo) is moa because moa disables your cleanse and all other defenses except dodge. Condi Reaper doesn’t have as much burst with the new Deathly Chill.

we can just as easily bring up the “broken” druid pet damage and revenant burst which is power.

MethaneGas.8357:

I can just as easily say cleansing is broken because there’s times where you deal like no damage in a condi build because of crazy enemy cleanse.

Saying condi is broken in sPvP also couldn’t be farther from the truth.

Power builds are a play style. Condition builds are a crutch

Cleanse should prioritize the most damaging condition currently on the player. It is far too easy to cover conditions.

Alex Shatter.7956:

Power builds are a play style. Condition builds are a crutch

LOL
we’ll keep playing condi builds and you can keep playing power to feel like a special snowflake

MethaneGas.8357:

Alex Shatter.7956:

Power builds are a play style. Condition builds are a crutch

LOL
we’ll keep playing unfun condi builds and you can keep playing power to feel like a special snowflake

Some of us like to have fun while winning.

BeepBoopBop.5403:

Some of us like to have fun while winning.

If you don’t find something fun, don’t play it.

MethaneGas.8357:

BeepBoopBop.5403:

Some of us like to have fun while winning.

If you don’t find something fun, don’t play it.

Exactly, which is why I don’t play condi cheese lol

BeepBoopBop.5403:

MethaneGas.8357:

BeepBoopBop.5403:

Some of us like to have fun while winning.

If you don’t find something fun, don’t play it.

Exactly, which is why I don’t play condi cheese lol

Give in to it… you know it’s delicious.

MethaneGas.8357:

BeepBoopBop.5403:

MethaneGas.8357:

BeepBoopBop.5403:

Some of us like to have fun while winning.

If you don’t find something fun, don’t play it.

Exactly, which is why I don’t play condi cheese lol

Give in to it… you know it’s delicious.

No thanks, I like active play.

BeepBoopBop.5403:

MethaneGas.8357:

BeepBoopBop.5403:

MethaneGas.8357:

BeepBoopBop.5403:

Some of us like to have fun while winning.

If you don’t find something fun, don’t play it.

Exactly, which is why I don’t play condi cheese lol

Give in to it… you know it’s delicious.

No thanks, I like active play.

Hmm tbh I do like active play too…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fRscYVvEFt8

BeepBoopBop.5403:

MethaneGas.8357:

BeepBoopBop.5403:

MethaneGas.8357:

BeepBoopBop.5403:

Some of us like to have fun while winning.

If you don’t find something fun, don’t play it.

Exactly, which is why I don’t play condi cheese lol

Give in to it… you know it’s delicious.

No thanks, I like active play.

Active play is reserved for cheeseboxes like Daredevils, DHs, Revs, and Berserkers.

6k per Vault on 2300 toughness. For power shatter to do any kind of meaningful damage, you have to go glass. Good luck with that.

The rise of the cheese is easily attributable to the tardmode power creep of these “active” power builds with their one-shot skills. People don’t enjoy getting 80% of their life being blown away by a single skill by classes who can bunker up and still deliver these cheesy numbers.

Active play. Oh please.

msalakka.4653:

BeepBoopBop.5403:

MethaneGas.8357:

BeepBoopBop.5403:

MethaneGas.8357:

BeepBoopBop.5403:

Some of us like to have fun while winning.

If you don’t find something fun, don’t play it.

Exactly, which is why I don’t play condi cheese lol

Give in to it… you know it’s delicious.

No thanks, I like active play.

Active play is reserved for cheeseboxes like Daredevils, DHs, Revs, and Berserkers.

6k per Vault on 2300 toughness. For power shatter to do any kind of meaningful damage, you have to go glass. Good luck with that.

The rise of the cheese is easily attributable to the tardmode power creep of these “active” power builds with their one-shot skills. People don’t enjoy getting 80% of their life being blown away by a single skill by classes who can bunker up and still deliver these cheesy numbers.

Active play. Oh please.

Yeah vault spam is just as bad as dd condi spam but s/d an d/p is far from cheese (what ever that means

All class has some sort of easy gimmicky build to play.

msalakka.4653:

BeepBoopBop.5403:

MethaneGas.8357:

BeepBoopBop.5403:

MethaneGas.8357:

BeepBoopBop.5403:

Some of us like to have fun while winning.

If you don’t find something fun, don’t play it.

Exactly, which is why I don’t play condi cheese lol

Give in to it… you know it’s delicious.

No thanks, I like active play.

Active play is reserved for cheeseboxes like Daredevils, DHs, Revs, and Berserkers.

6k per Vault on 2300 toughness. For power shatter to do any kind of meaningful damage, you have to go glass. Good luck with that.

The rise of the cheese is easily attributable to the tardmode power creep of these “active” power builds with their one-shot skills. People don’t enjoy getting 80% of their life being blown away by a single skill by classes who can bunker up and still deliver these cheesy numbers.

Active play. Oh please.

You can walk out of Vault, you know that.

BeepBoopBop.5403:

No thanks, I like active play.

If you liked active play then you wouldn’t be playing a game that aims most of your skills for you (and what little you do aim barely requires any aim at all), is full of passives, has no meaningful resource management, is pretty undemanding in terms of mechanical ability and so on…