Guild Wars 2

I’ve seen every current meta / relevant build called “brainless,” OP, etc. So PvP forum, my question to you: which build so do you actually think is skilled?

Drennon.7190:

I’ve seen every current meta / relevant build called “brainless,” OP, etc. So PvP forum, my question to you: which build so do you actually think is skilled?

Any build that requires you to:

a.) Move

b.) Press buttons to not die

is skilled.

turret engi has a lot of skills

Every zerker build excluding medi guard and s/d thief. (just an opinion)

any thieves build against Mesmers are pretty hard in sPvP, Mesmers are easier than turrent engis…

Naked, no-utility and one weapon zerker builds

rchu.8945:

any thieves build against Mesmers are pretty hard in sPvP, Mesmers are easier than turrent engis…

lol wat……

If you seem them as hard as having a high barrier….There really arn’t any that fit that. The issue is how to optimize them. thats where individual skill comes in.

I can’t think of any builds so far that I couldn’t grasp atleast the method of play with. Its all in how long you play/practice/learn with that build thats gonna decide how much of its potential you bring out.

Edit: If you want builds that demand key timing and heavy awareness. Could always go with some of the less meta mesmer builds and a full concecration guardian. You wont be meta by any means. But concecration dps guards have quite a bit of combat potential that maybe one in a hundred guardians ive met actually are able to reach.

“Every build but mine’s is cheap and cheese when I have an alt using them they are hard.” -Usual GW2 PvP player-

Mace/Shield + Axe/Mace Zerk Warrior. Why? Skull Crack actually takes skill to land specially when trying to land a 1/2 second casting time right after an evade ends. Every other Warrior build (specially with long bow) is kinda braindead compared to that.

Actually scratch that, many specs are pretty braindead compared to that. I’ll give you an example, Over-charged shot is pretty much skull crack with instant cast. And I guess Slick Shoes is like a braindead version of bulls charge.

It isn’t a bad spec because Warrior DPS cleave and down potential is not a joke and DPS Warr can delay a point pretty well, but it’s not easy mode either. Therefore it isn’t “meta” because “meta” by definition is EASY and EFFECTIVE. For example, D/D Ele, Cele Engi, shoutbow, soon to be turrets, and etc.

Drennon.7190:

I’ve seen every current meta / relevant build called “brainless,” OP, etc. So PvP forum, my question to you: which build so do you actually think is skilled?

None of the builds in GW2 are especially hard to play. But some builds like Necro MM, Turret Engi/Cele Rifle, Medi Guard, Shoutbow, D/P Thief, PU Mesmer, RTW Ranger etc just require exceptionally little player input to do well with. While builds like S/F FA Ele, SD Engi, GS/LB Warr may be very unforgiving to play I’d still not call them skill heavy builds.

Low Demand on Player Skill / Knowledge / Timing
- AI Builds (Turret Engi / Minionmancer / Spirit Ranger / etc)
- Power Necromancer
- Shoutbow
- PU Mesmer

Medium Demand on Player Skill / Knowledge / Timing
- Bunker Guardian
- MediGS Guardian
- Condi Necromancer
- Condi Engineer

High Demand on Player Skill / Knowledge / Timing
- CeleDD Elementalist
- CeleRifle Engineer
- Fresh Air Elementalist
- P/D and S/D Thief
- MediHammer Guardian
- Shatter Mesmer

I didn’t cover everything but I covered a lot. Some of these builds are on the edge of one classification into another, but this is generally how I see things in the current meta.

It really depends on what you consider part of player skill with a class. I included rotational knowledge with a build because knowing where your class belongs (in the team fight, roaming, defending 2 points, etc) is important. Some are better at certain roles than others. Complex mechanical rotations are definitely more demanding of player skill, which is why double kit CeleRifle Engineer and CeleDD Elementalist are tougher mechanically to play.

Another factor is “how easy is it for you to be bad at this build”. Most high burst glassy builds are very easy to be terrible with, meaning you get burst easily or you rely on getting in/out of combat reliably. It’s easy to say that a Thief is braindead because it hides in Stealth a lot, but knowing where to be and how to effectively rotate on a Thief is something I see a lot of even high-tier Thieves be ineffective at. It’s tough to always be in the right place at the right time.

I think builds that have minimal mechanical complexity and typically sit on or around points and are very defensive are extraordinarily forgiving of a player being awful and are very rewarding even in spite of that. Meanwhile, I consider things like Power Necromancer very braindead to play because they rely on spamming the 1 key a lot and have extremely simple burst rotations (if any at all). It gets even sillier in Lich Form.

Rising Dusk.2408:

Medium Demand on Player Skill / Knowledge / Timing
- PU Mesmer

Aight.

PU Mesmer is definitely something I think is on the easier side to use; I ended up bumping it down in an edit before refreshing and seeing your post. That said, the lack of Dire in SPvP makes it less bulky than it is in WvW for instance (and less deadly without the +40% condi duration food), which makes it easier to burst down and get rid of. I think it’s borderline in the context of SPvP.

Rising Dusk.2408:

Another factor is “how easy is it for you to be bad at this build”. Most high burst glassy builds are very easy to be terrible with, meaning you get burst easily or you rely on getting in/out of combat reliably. It’s easy to say that a Thief is braindead because it hides in Stealth a lot, but knowing where to be and how to effectively rotate on a Thief is something I see a lot of even high-tier Thieves be ineffective at. It’s tough to always be in the right place at the right time.

lol…

Cele meta builds may have a high skill ceiling but they are generally very forgiving and not all that difficult to play effectively. Pretty sure that’s partly why they are meta.

Zerker specs and the non meta classes are the hardest to play right now, IMO.

Roe.3679:

Cele meta builds may have a high skill ceiling but they are generally very forgiving and not all that difficult to play effectively. Pretty sure that’s partly why they are meta.

Zerker specs and the non meta classes are the hardest to play right now, IMO.

Let’s make sure to emphasize that.

easy to hard
engie
ele
ranger
warrior
necro
mesmer
thief
guardian

it depends on the opponent. i’ve had very frought 1v2s that i won on turret engineer, and also killed thives with three hits from zerker warrior rampage. it’s a combination of the quality of your opponents play, and how their build matches up against yours really.

A safe answer would be, anything that isn’t easy and effective.

By that logic anything that isn’t a Guardian, Ranger, Turret Engi, D/D ele, shoutbow, cele engi, and many more.

Though you have to be careful when you “easy and effective” because certain specs are easy and effective in their own way. There is no specific pattern. For example, Guardian Ring and Slick Shoes being an unblockable evade frame eater AND hard CC at the same time. Ranger being the easiest dodge bait in the game while having indefinite evades. Or like D/D Ele having decent damage, stupid tankiness AND can abuse z-axis teleports being a tank with so many jail-card options. Or shoutbow being a second healing for other team mates can pretty much hard counter condi pressure (though this one is easy AND balanced, it is still a very easy build).

Lexiceta.4156:

easy to hard
engie
ele
ranger
warrior
necro
mesmer
thief
guardian

wot?
how so guardian and ranger are harder then engi? how is that even possible?
as multiclasser and guardian main my opinion is that ranger is the easiest
and as a fact – guardian isn’t hardest, there is NO WAY

as for engi you might meant turrets
engi =/= turrets , turrets is turrets, engi is engi and engi has ANY skillfloor to it unlike turrets and skillceiling is even very high
Edit: not only this is completely wrong – certain builds is what matter more than class itself; like terror necro takes skill believe it or not and zerk necro – lulz i just procd my entire build thief diered lulz
also goes to show that zerker does’nt necessairly mean hard spec

fresh air

From a QQ’er perspective it’s pretty simple:

The ones “I” play are considered to be legit and hard.
The ones “I” get beaten by are considered cheesy and OP.

Pretty much every meta build can be considered easy relative to the alternatives for each class. Meta builds tend to be optimal and forgiving, which is why they are so popular.

D/D celestial elementalist may be “hard” relative to other meta builds, but it’s still way easier than D/D berserker or staff, or even S/F since it lets you stay alive much longer while still dishing out high damage.

If meta builds were meta because of ease of use, turret engi and MM necro would be at the top of metabattle’s PvP section. They’re meta because they bring the most to the table when played properly. Whether or not they’re easy to play properly has nothing to do with it.

Aktium.9506:

Rising Dusk.2408:

Medium Demand on Player Skill / Knowledge / Timing
- PU Mesmer

Aight.

what exactly is PU memser…is that the condi mez build with scepter or is it something else?

Rising Dusk.2408:

High Demand on Player Skill / Knowledge / Timing
- CeleDD Elementalist
- CeleRifle Engineer

These two should be in medium. Both of them require you to know your skills but theyre both fairly forgiving and allow you to survive while dishing out a lot of damage. I would rank enige as harder than ele tho between the two builds. Maybe its just because i know all my ele skill instinctively from Pve, but the few times i hop on my d/d ele in pvp it seems like i cant be killed…..

The weaker build it is, the harder it is to play, it’s that simple.

Also, number of buttons that have to be mashed on the keyboard has nothing to do with the difficulty. Proof for that are ezpz to play cele eles and engis.

Sins.4782:

If meta builds were meta because of ease of use, turret engi and MM necro would be at the top of metabattle’s PvP section. They’re meta because they bring the most to the table when played properly. Whether or not they’re easy to play properly has nothing to do with it.

Define “easy of use”. MM necro suffers from broken AI that will literally sit there idle while you’re in a fight, making you effectively have 0 utility skills. MM necro might as well be called “locked utility skills necro”. Not sure why it is on metabattle, but it is: http://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Necromancer_-_Minion_Master

Also, Turret engi is on metabattle: http://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Engineer_-_Turret

1. Anything glass, 2. Requires set up to burst, 3. has relatively easy to avoid burst, 4. having said burst requiring defensive cooldowns or resources, and 5. limited and/or restrictive ports.
+
Let’s not forget all while being countered by almost everything else in the competing slot, and naturally soft countered on point/a flat by every current meta low risk bruiser or condi cleave.

Only thing that fits all that criteria is Shatter mes. Call me bias but I cannot understand how anyone can say anything else is objectively harder than that status quo.

Power ranger, Fresh Air, Medi Guard, and both D/P or S/D thief all have very little set up. Thief, Ranger, and Guard, in this context have more damage AND more survivability (Theif and guard not even needing to worry about LoS). Although Fresh air may get the shaft a little bit more in the defensive department they still have more defensive cooldowns.

But the other glass builds I mentioned are definitely the runners up… except maybe medi gaurd.

Ele’s are ezpz to play? My, people’s definitions of easy differ. Apparently rotating attunements for a might rotation, timing water attunement use to not get locked out of it, and landing things like burning speed with lightning flash not to mention blasting your fields must be braindead.

It seems people love to define classes as “easy” if they happen to have a hard time against them and can’t just 2-3 shot them in their berserker gear.

Any build that relies on attrition and interrupting enemy key skills instead spamming stuff and running around, and has a 50% chance to win against other balanced builds, making the final result depend mostly on player skill.

If you can defeat anything under 3 seconds or can defeat more than 2 players attacking you at the same time in less than 30 seconds without ever getting your health under 80%, you are likely using a build that abuses loopholes and flaws in balance and/or requires little skill.

So what I’ve learned from this thread is, “my build is hard and yours is easy.”

Rising Dusk.2408:

Low Demand on Player Skill / Knowledge / Timing
- AI Builds (Turret Engi / Minionmancer / Spirit Ranger / etc)
- Power Necromancer
- Shoutbow
- PU Mesmer

Medium Demand on Player Skill / Knowledge / Timing
- Bunker Guardian
- MediGS Guardian
- Condi Necromancer
- Condi Engineer

High Demand on Player Skill / Knowledge / Timing
- CeleDD Elementalist
- CeleRifle Engineer
- Fresh Air Elementalist
- P/D and S/D Thief
- MediHammer Guardian
- Shatter Mesmer

I didn’t cover everything but I covered a lot. Some of these builds are on the edge of one classification into another, but this is generally how I see things in the current meta.

It really depends on what you consider part of player skill with a class. I included rotational knowledge with a build because knowing where your class belongs (in the team fight, roaming, defending 2 points, etc) is important. Some are better at certain roles than others. Complex mechanical rotations are definitely more demanding of player skill, which is why double kit CeleRifle Engineer and CeleDD Elementalist are tougher mechanically to play.

Another factor is “how easy is it for you to be bad at this build”. Most high burst glassy builds are very easy to be terrible with, meaning you get burst easily or you rely on getting in/out of combat reliably. It’s easy to say that a Thief is braindead because it hides in Stealth a lot, but knowing where to be and how to effectively rotate on a Thief is something I see a lot of even high-tier Thieves be ineffective at. It’s tough to always be in the right place at the right time.

I think builds that have minimal mechanical complexity and typically sit on or around points and are very defensive are extraordinarily forgiving of a player being awful and are very rewarding even in spite of that. Meanwhile, I consider things like Power Necromancer very braindead to play because they rely on spamming the 1 key a lot and have extremely simple burst rotations (if any at all). It gets even sillier in Lich Form.

Medi Hammer and P/D Thief demanding, Condition Necromancer medium in this meta. Alright.

I’m not sober after easter party either.

I play staff ele so obviously it’s the hardest and skillful and everything else is just brain dead easy cheese.

Well it all comes from personal perspective and has many others have said, a lot of people think everything they don’t play is easy and everything they play is hard. Another common misconception is that burst builds are hard to play, I find this is rarelly true. For instance, medi guard is one of the easiest builds to play effectively, yet may people list it as being harder than many other builds that are way harder to play imo. Just because you die easily when your out of cooldowns doesn’t make the build hard to play, many builds don’t have those cooldowns in the first place and can be considered significantly more difficult. This is also why thieves are often vastly overrated in their skill level because people say, “oh well you die so quickly if they catch you.” Well when your on a class that has about a hundred ways to prevent getting caught that isn’t impressive. It would be way more impressive if a power necro could survive a whole game than either meta thief build, while still having an impact.

hard: shatter and condi necro
easy: everything else since panic strike covers thief and hammer covers guardian

Engi is so hard (if not the hardest) to play well A good engi is a wonder to watch.

Sagat.3285:

“Every build but mine’s is cheap and cheese when I have an alt using them they are hard.” -Usual GW2 PvP player-

fresh air ele and any mesmer at all levels of play. in terms of competitive play, dagger pistol thief and power ranger are hard to play defensively. also cele rifle engi is a bit harder than most builds.

Drennon.7190:

So what I’ve learned from this thread is, “my build is hard and yours is easy.”

…you’re my hero

[img]http://static.celebuzz.com/uploads/2014/06/17/bravo-clap.gif[/img]

Drennon.7190:

So what I’ve learned from this thread is, “my build is hard and yours is easy.”

Yup, 100% correct.

What builds are ‘hard’ depends on the tier and player, so I’ll say what I personally feel takes the most effort and awareness to make effective.

Shatter Mes
D/P executioner
Fresh Air Ele
Condi Necro

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fhAQNAsdRl0npKtFpxGNcrNipxc6qiaJSFQpHZ8FA-TpBFwACOEA12fIxJAYxDAoaZAAHBAA

Good luck, have fun…

…you’re certainly going to need it.

(anyone who can play a full bar of mantras as a glassy zerker mantra mesmer in pvp successfully has my utmost respect)

Azure The Heartless.3261:

Drennon.7190:

I’ve seen every current meta / relevant build called “brainless,” OP, etc. So PvP forum, my question to you: which build so do you actually think is skilled?

Any build that requires you to:

a.) Move

b.) Press buttons to not die

is skilled.

This and just this. Movement including heavy evading and kiting

It depends from player to player what is considered hard to play.
In my case I consider hard any zerk build. It needs a lot of experience, right positioning, knowing of when attack or not, etc.

Nyx.7342:

…
what exactly is PU memser…is that the condi mez build with scepter or is it something else?
…

Prismatic Understanding is a GM trait that grants boons while in stealth.

Glass Staff for Ele is tough to play at a high level. Anything is tough if you aren’t suited to it. It’s why we all have different choices for what’s toughest.

GoogleBrandon.5073:

Naked, no-utility and one weapon zerker builds

Its hard to say because it depends on what you find hard. Reality is none of the builds are actually very difficult to get into once you have a decent base skill level, most builds are also generally equal as far as how hard they are to play. There are exceptions, Turret Engi is extremely easy to play on all fronts for example, whereas something like Thief is pretty unforgiving.

Hardest build ingame is Zerk Staff ele.

You are counterplayed so hard by pretty much any class and if you get focused, then GG.

Your CCs suck and are basically non existent half the time since its hard to hit with Air 3, Earth 5. As well as people just beating you down with range attacks, Your hp pool is pretty low so a Longbow ranger would pretty much wreck you if you already used Earth 3.

Warriors move faster with melee weapons so theyl pretty much just stay ontop of you beating you down if you try to run. Half the time Earth 4 doesnt work cause they step over it while its forming on the ground or have stability on.

Thieves just teleport to you with venom and daze. GG here. Gaurdians the same way especially if there Medi.

theres more then this…but why bother when you already get the point lol.