So, what do you think of Warriors in sPvP?

So, what do you think of Warriors in sPvP?

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Posted by: Plague.5329

Plague.5329

I ask this because my main is a Warrior. In Guild Wars 1, I didn’t have a “main” exactly, but I usually RA’d, TA’d and HA’d as one. Obviously being good in one (and I indeed was a good Warrior in GW1) won’t translate to the other, but so far my experience with the class in 8v8s has not been a favorable one. I’m not interested ranking professions, but more in your overall impression of playing Wars and fighting them. Do you ever find them threatening? What do you think of their utility? Build variety? Traits?

I’ll give you my general impression:

Warriors are a melee class, foremost. The Warrior has two ranged options: rifle and bow. Rifles have low base damage and some rather poor utility. The #1 slot is a basic attack that does nothing but damage+bleed, #2 is a cripple, #3 is another basic attack with no utility, although it’s the rifle’s primary source of damage but easy to dodge when it starts, #4 is low damage and adds some vulnerability (5), which may get you 10-15 more damage a hit on average, and #5 is a short range knockback. So, its main utility is a cripple and a knockback. It’s mainly a distance weapon, but not a particularly good one. Its F1 attack is 95% worthless, as it has an obvious animation anyone will avoid. Use it only when your target cannot see you. The bow has its own problems. Its main attack again has no utility, although it does hit twice, meaning it can act as a carrier for runes. #2 is very low damage and inflicts burning for about 1s, #3 is Arcing Arrow, a very slow, obvious attack that is very easy to avoid at long ranges. #4 blinds, buying you one hit, and #5 is a cripple. Again, low damage for the most part, slow, obvious attacks. You have to use the longbow as a melee weapon almost. Its F1 is the Warrior’s only option to create a combo field in the game, so you may find yourself walking into enemies, laying it at your feet and firing an arcing shot directly into the ground. Good in PvE and in WvW at times, not so much in PvP. Your worst weapon choice in sPvP.

So, most Warriors you will ever see will be running melee builds. Melee is easy to avoid. Evasions, cripples, freezing, stuns, dazes, immobilizes, blinds, knockbacks, knockdowns, turning people into moas and so on. Stability will allow you to avoid some of this, although the Warrior’s only stability options are Balance Stance and Dolyak Signet. Both do the same thing: grant 10 1/2s of stability. You basically have to have one of these on your bar in every single build, or you will never begin dealing damage to anyone, regardless of whether your target is crippled, etc, themselves. I feel like this starts off being the primary problem with Warriors, as they lack a lot of innate utility that other professions are built around, meaning they have a very low amount of build variety that ends up revolving completely around countering CC. GW1 was the same way, although mending touch made it tolerable.

People usually mention the HB+Frenzy build, which was nerfed prior to release and is easy to counter. Hundred Blades locks you in place, necessitating a lengthy stun prior to using the move, in addition to needing to isolate targets to begin with, unless you want his buddy to melt you while you Frenzy. It’s not a very good build, but on a class with few options, it’s one of the few unique things it can do.

The main “advantage” a Warrior has is its high health pool – a few thousand more than other professions, on average. Of course, many classes can deal well over that amount in a single hit, meaning this is mostly worthless. Survival in sPvP is all about utility, not health or armor. This is why a mediocre Guardian can outtank a perfectly specced Warrior with ease. Similarly, the Warrior’s strength is not DPS, which many other classes can exceed with ease (and more importantly, at range. )The main advantage Warriors have, or used to, is burst damage. This has gone down a lot since betas, and most weapons don’t do it particularly well to begin with. Axe and GS are your only real options here, and both rely heavily on a single attack that, again, has no innate utility and require a lot of awkward weapon switching or skill chaining to work, with a lot of drawbacks and not much payoff. So far I’ve found hammer to be the most useful in 8v8s just because it offers the most disruption, and hence, is the only real utility option in the game for a Warrior.

Again, I’m not asking if other professions are overpowered, or if another is worse off. I’m just asking your opinion on the Warrior. I’m not heavily experience in sPvP like I was in GW1, so I’m open to ideas, but my impression is that the Warrior does not do anything better than another profession and is hampered by its weapons’ terrible innate utility, meaning you have to waste secondary skill slots on mitigating that – not to accessorize your build, but to make it viable.

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Posted by: Teabaker.9524

Teabaker.9524

Well, I think Warriors are only playable because HB-Damage is completely absurd. Without that, warriors would be extremely weak. Also stacked teams of mesmer, thiefs and guardians are impossible to deal with as warrior.

Though I have to say that Warriors are pretty fine. It’s just that thiefs and guardians (And maybe mesmers) are too strong. But they will get nerfed and that should fix it.

In my opnion, the bigger problem is that next to GS/Axe+1h shield we have no viable builds (well, maybe a tanky rifle-specc I’m trying atm. It’s okay). Another possible build is tank-warrior but it is completely outclassed by tank-guardian.

(edited by Teabaker.9524)

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Posted by: mouse.1689

mouse.1689

Warriors are actually one of the stronger classes in competitive sPvP right now. Mesmer, Thief, and Guardian are by far the strongest, but Warrior is just below that, and all other classes are below that.

Warrior fulfills a very specific niche in sPvP: they do huge damage in a supportive role. They’re not particularly strong in 1v1 scenarios, but in group fights where their teammates can provide CCs for them, their spike damage is through the roof, and a lot of it is AoE. That’s what they’re good at, and they’re definitely viable in a competitive environment.

Incidentally, a properly specced glass cannon Rifle warrior can do some of the most single target burst damage in the game. A properly specced glass cannon Longbow Warrior can do more AoE damage than any other class in the game. Bear in mind that these specs are awful in 1v1 scenarios, but when backed by teammates in group skirmishes, they’re very effective.

If you want to be a roamer or lone point defender, Warrior isn’t for you. If you want to do amazing damage in a group scenario, Warrior is unmatched by any class in the game.

EDIT: For a longbow AoE build in action, see this video.

For the Longbow build used, see this video.

For Rifle crit build in action, see this video.

For the Rifle build used, see this video.

(These aren’t my videos, but Ayra is a talented player with a lot of good info.)

(edited by mouse.1689)

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Posted by: Teabaker.9524

Teabaker.9524

Lmao, the videos. Playing without defensive talents, block or endure pain. You can’t be serious. Any thief will jump and kill you in a couple of seconds. Those builds are not viable in a higher level of play against better players.

EDIT: Though the longbow-one seems very interesting. I just would like to know how he managed to avoid the teams full of thiefs, mesmer and guardians.

(edited by Teabaker.9524)

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Posted by: Plague.5329

Plague.5329

My impression of the videos is that they worked because it was organized play against somewhat poor opponents. He rarely actually got targeted. Coincidentally, what he’s running on that longbow build is almost just like what I run… in PvE.

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Posted by: Pete.6037

Pete.6037

I havn’t had a warrior kill me without using hundred blades.

All I need to use is a stun breaker and they are dead.

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Posted by: Malakree.5912

Malakree.5912

HB needs a change so its not a one shot wonder. If the prof needs a buff to other builds in order to bring it up to par then it should have it.

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Posted by: Grundlius.7201

Grundlius.7201

I havn’t had a warrior kill me without using hundred blades.

All I need to use is a stun breaker and they are dead.

If you’ve got a stunbreaker with a shorter cooldown than Bull’s Rush, they can’t kill you WITH Hundred Blades. Their fight-winning burst just never hits.

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Posted by: SgtSarcasm.1653

SgtSarcasm.1653

I’m running Hammer + Mace/shield combo for sPvP, mostly a defensive build with 20 toughness, 30 vitality and 20 in the last one (crit damage and burst damage). That combined with Berserker accessory (with berserker gem) gives me almost 40% crit chance and 60% crit damage, while still having healing shouts, ~23k hp and 1500ish toughness, and a lot of control abilities from the hammer and mace.

I do pretty decent in sPvP for the most part, usually strolling between points to assist whichever point needs help, or defending, as I can survive for quite a while against multiple attackers.

Khaine [80 Guardian] – Night of Wallachia [80 Warrior]
Minister of Fear [80 Necromancer] @Far Shiverpeaks EU

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Posted by: Lasica.5068

Lasica.5068

I’m pretty new at this whole pvp thing and only queue as a pug in some quick games each evening. My warrior uses a rifle with axe + shield offset and it is extremely powerful when enemies ignore you are you are with a group. I’ve taken out several at a time simply because I can do absolutely tonnes of damage to them in a couple of hits. I am a bit squishy (although getting better at surviving) and most 1v1 and 1vX contests end up with me dead, but when I’m with a group I go on a rampage while the enemies attack my companions.

Why make sense, when it’s so much more fun to make nonsense?

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Posted by: pinkglow.3429

pinkglow.3429

First of all, most teams would choose a warrior above a mesmer any day =) Except for trebucher last tournament map.

I believe that they need to increase the cooldown on hundred blade and reward weapon swapping and different builds. Atm most warriors build around hundred blades and since game isnt balanced around 1v1, hundred blades together with a hs thief for example is way too strong and impossible for anyone to counter. Either a proper damage nerf or increased cd would balance warriors out. With that fix I would guess warriors would be in a balanced but still viable state

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Posted by: mickers.2715

mickers.2715

I look forward to fighting warriors on my ranger its probably the most equal fight i have. Although if they dont take endure pain + the talent that procs it when they get low its pretty much a win for me no matter what. Unless its in a team fight then you can just get instant killed by a frenzy warrior without your stun breaker ready.

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Posted by: Shelledfade.6435

Shelledfade.6435

warrior is imba. OP class.

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Posted by: Irishbrewed.6537

Irishbrewed.6537

I wish I could put my finger on it, but unless I trait into tough/vitality my warrior spvp expirence is rather “meh” tbh. Maybe I’m doing it wrong, as they say. But either way it’s not as sexy as I hoped. I use mine as a support control type ATM.

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Posted by: Malakree.5912

Malakree.5912

I wish I could put my finger on it, but unless I trait into tough/vitality my warrior spvp expirence is rather “meh” tbh. Maybe I’m doing it wrong, as they say. But either way it’s not as sexy as I hoped. I use mine as a support control type ATM.

It’s because the GS burst warrior is a skill less build. It’s there for bad’s who don’t have any skill in order to allow them to get kills. If you fight opponents who have skill and are reasonably skilled yourself then the GS just stops getting any more effective. It’s the big reason it needs to be changed.

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Posted by: Irishbrewed.6537

Irishbrewed.6537

I wish I could put my finger on it, but unless I trait into tough/vitality my warrior spvp expirence is rather “meh” tbh. Maybe I’m doing it wrong, as they say. But either way it’s not as sexy as I hoped. I use mine as a support control type ATM.

It’s because the GS burst warrior is a skill less build. It’s there for bad’s who don’t have any skill in order to allow them to get kills. If you fight opponents who have skill and are reasonably skilled yourself then the GS just stops getting any more effective. It’s the big reason it needs to be changed.

Greatsword is what you’re referring too?

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Posted by: Irishbrewed.6537

Irishbrewed.6537

obviously you have only participated in spvp and have yet to step into the realm of tpvp (against full teams, not randoms). It is not a “skill less” build, please go try it yourself against a tpvp and see how well you do. It is a high risk high reward build, and requires a certain finesse to pull off against competent player. Just because it stomps bads such as yourself does not mean it needs a nerf, it is the one of the few things warriors have going for them atm besides going into a support/cc build.

I am not a big fan of the greatswords abilities and haven’t ran a GS heavy build, but at least it works. My only success has come in the way of the CC/Support build like you mentioned. Yeah i am pretty positive nothing about the warrior needs a “nerf”

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Posted by: Chi Malady.2015

Chi Malady.2015

Warriors are a melee class, foremost. The Warrior has two ranged options: rifle and bow. Rifles have low base damage and some rather poor utility. The #1 slot is a basic attack that does nothing but damage+bleed, #2 is a cripple, #3 is another basic attack with no utility, although it’s the rifle’s primary source of damage but easy to dodge when it starts, #4 is low damage and adds some vulnerability (5), which may get you 10-15 more damage a hit on average, and #5 is a short range knockback.

WRONG!

Warrior is arguably the most effective ranged profession in the game. Ranged warrior is actually the only warrior build I play right now.

The #2 skill coupled with “Leg Specialist” is deadly (even without it, a 6s cripple is an amazing skill).

Volley hits for fairly high damage. Every attack can be dodged, you just need to learn to use control skills.

The #5 skill is a “short” knockback? LOL? It has a range of 450, nearly twice that of “Kick”.

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Posted by: Dragzter.3810

Dragzter.3810

they’re well balanced now (minus str runes and celestial ammy)
gj anet

*golf claps

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Posted by: Dee Jay.2460

Dee Jay.2460

I think Double Endure Pain is pretty stupid.

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Posted by: rsq.3581

rsq.3581

You just necro’d a year-old thread…

Salphir | Salfir | Falana
jo0 Binder

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Posted by: Deimos Tel Arin.7391

Deimos Tel Arin.7391

ah, a year ago, before the much needed healing signet buff.

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Posted by: Caedmon.6798

Caedmon.6798

Its like Back in the future all over again.Without the hoverboard that is.

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Posted by: Julie Yann.5379

Julie Yann.5379

I main a Warrior and my impression is that the Longbow+Cleansing Ire+Burst Mastery is slightly OP.

Be careful what you wish for, Anet might just give it to you “HoT”
“…let us eat and drink, for tomorrow we shall die;.”

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Posted by: Eurantien.4632

Eurantien.4632

For a second, I thought everybody was kittening crazy.

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Posted by: Liza.2758

Liza.2758

a lot of op stuffs right now come from might stacking. if only they fix this thing will be very more balance.

or maybe add some more Boon striping ..

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Posted by: azuzephyr.7280

azuzephyr.7280

For a second, I thought everybody was kittening crazy.

IKR; mesmers the most powerful class in pvp? warriors underpowered?

I almost spat out my Earl Grey and lost all of my tea time etiquette