Guild Wars 2

aleiro.8521:

…use defensive abilities if u see the thief so nice to see them backstab you for 0 damage
or backstab your shield
ahhh I just love it

So I have to predict an attack from an invisible opponent who can attack at anytime and I may not even know was there. I have to hope he decides to attack in the 3 seconds i can put up a block ability.

Amazing advice! Any more gems?

Now this may come as a shock to you, but my shield is not infinite, it has a cooldown use. Crazy right? And it even comes with an animation, so any thief could say ’ oh look! he’s blocking, i’ll wiat till it stops, then ill attack him!.’

I see many thieves advocates underestimate the problem. It’s absolutely true that a skilled player can counter thief, or atleast escape him. And in fact any player who at least try to think, will definitely find a way to adjust his class to countering thieves.
But the problem is not a whine of particular person dying from 10k BS.
The problem is that, once i created a thief, in starting set up without even reading my traits I pawned pretty many people on low rank. And this game is not only tPvP, I do really enjoy sPvP because of it being fun, though I’m capable of playing high lvl and have not poor MMO PvP Expirience.
But sPvP is inbalanced way too much. You can’t do it alone, so you watch your teammates die like training golems, and half of a a team are thieves. So there are many skilfull thieves, but there are much more thieves who know only 3-4 buttons.

This doesn’t bother good players. This makes average players adjust their character particulary against thief. And that scares the kitten out of newbie players and makes them reroll thief.

If it would be at least 2 rogue per team limit, then I would be ok even with 20k crits.

I had a great laugh this morning when I saw another Thief post and it had the author as Merciless. I want to shake the hand of the thief that made this guy rage this hard for this long. Kudos to whoever you were… kudos good sir!

Blackrow.4571:

I see many thieves advocates underestimate the problem. It’s absolutely true that a skilled player can counter thief, or atleast escape him.

Oh please, how many tools does a thief have to keep a target in range or even to catch up? I mean seriously…

See now, there’s really no convincing to be made against all the Thieves, or most any other class that is considered OP in any other MMO.

If you get the nerf bat, you will cry and say that the other players cried too hard and Anet just listened to the whiners and babies and noobs and caved in.

If you don’t get the nerf bat, you will raise up a cry of triumph and lambast me and everybody else who has made it a point to show how ridiculous your class is compared to the others’ in game.

We’ll find out in the next 12-24 hours. I will keep playing the game either way.

Backstab doesn’t need a damage nerf.

It needs a function nerf.

All abilities of other classes in this game have cooldowns. If you miss your 30 second cooldown, it still goes on cooldown.
All thief abilities use initiative. If you miss with your ability, you still spend the initiative.

Backstab doesn’t require initiative (because it already has a precursor) but it’s spammable. Meaning if you put up a block, I can spam into it as many times as I want. Blind? Just keep spamming.

Stealth should break when you use backstab. There is no reason a thief should get 2, 3, 4, 5, or 6 chances to backstab someone. It makes well timed blinds/blocks/dodges pointless.

I’d love to see the World of Roguecraft guys get a crack at this in video form, the pwning would be epic.

Oh yes, a World of Roguecraft video with the same dripping sarcasm would be great. The scary thing is, though, that the same lines which were uttered by WoW rogues could be re-used for this video e.g. “we need the damage because we have no real defense” ^^

Daays.4317:

Backstab doesn’t need a damage nerf.

It needs a function nerf.

All abilities of other classes in this game have cooldowns. If you miss your 30 second cooldown, it still goes on cooldown.
All thief abilities use initiative. If you miss with your ability, you still spend the initiative.

Backstab doesn’t require initiative (because it already has a precursor) but it’s spammable. Meaning if you put up a block, I can spam into it as many times as I want. Blind? Just keep spamming.

Stealth should break when you use backstab. There is no reason a thief should get 2, 3, 4, 5, or 6 chances to backstab someone. It makes well timed blinds/blocks/dodges pointless.

That’s a really good point, Daays. A CD on BS would help a lot. Or a massive initiative cost.

Advocating putting CD’s on Thief weaponsets is about as intelligent as saying,

“I don’t understand why I can’t put this cheaper 3 speed transmission from the 50’s in my 2012 Hybrid. They should make it so I can do that. Never mind that you would, quite literally, have to RE-ENGINEER THE ENTIRE VEHICLE… they should do it because I’m a community college drop out that knows better than an entire team of engineers who have been doing this their entire lives.”

THAT’S how ridiculous you sound.

If you add CD’s to thieves you have to redesign the entire class and its relation to everyone else. You can’t arbitrarily say, “do this and it fixes everything” without looking like a doofus to anyone with an IQ greater than that of a tree stump.

No backstab nerf? Prolly will level my thief… and by backstab nerf, I mean the broken mechanic of steal, cnd, bs, dead. The super burst backstab thief. Backstab itself, I think is ok. But the insta-gib has to go.

Daays.4317:

Backstab doesn’t need a damage nerf.

It needs a function nerf.

All abilities of other classes in this game have cooldowns. If you miss your 30 second cooldown, it still goes on cooldown.
All thief abilities use initiative. If you miss with your ability, you still spend the initiative.

Backstab doesn’t require initiative (because it already has a precursor) but it’s spammable. Meaning if you put up a block, I can spam into it as many times as I want. Blind? Just keep spamming.

Stealth should break when you use backstab. There is no reason a thief should get 2, 3, 4, 5, or 6 chances to backstab someone. It makes well timed blinds/blocks/dodges pointless.

I agree. That would not be a nerf, but a fix. Also, steal should break any ongoing action (CnD → steal combo).

“I dont remember the last time i died to heart seaker, roll one, if you have a shield block the other, you may get hit with one, but they can only spam it 3 times in a row far as i know?”

I can do about 7 HS in a row. I think I could do more, but almost nothing lives through 7 HS for me to find out.

If you’re landing 7 HS’s… you’re playing against bads.

That’s a serious lern2play issue. I’ve never been hit more than twice since I learned to, you know, dodge… In fact it’s quite amusing to watch an HS spammer scream around a point like a ritalin deprived toddler and land a whopping two, maybe three, hits.

And yes, HS can be slammed extensively if you spec Acro Trickery but you’re paying for it with less dmg.

I’m all for nerfing thieves damage.

Hopefully your up for the repercussions of this, which means… more group utility.

AOE Perma Swiftness/Vigor is something we need for allies in a build.

Used to play ranger for my team (Alpha Collective) then switched to backstab thief…

I don’t have a HUGE problem with the burst – I think it needs to be toned down a bit maybe, but whatever.

My problem is that there is no counter. You cannot avoid a 10k backstab when its coming from out of an invis. You cannot roll, you cannot block, you cannot blind him. I mean you can roll or block but how are you going to do that? Those are reactive things, you can’t react to a thief thats invisible. if someone wants to argue that you can do something like spam evades when you see a thief stealthed, GL with that. Waste of your stamina and stealths are way too long for that to be a reasonable way to avoid a backstab.

The problem with backstab burst is there is nothing you can do to prevent it via player skill.

If you get instagibbed once… fine. Lesson learned. If you get gibbed twice? That’s your fault.

I’ve been backstabbed to death before. But you know what I do? I REMEMBER WHO DID IT. So when I see him coming at me again I pop a dodge. Easy. Done. He stealths, you dodge TOWARDS him.

If you die, you die. I’ve yet to have a match where I said to myself,

“You know what… if that thief didn’t Instagibb me that one time we could have won that match instead of losing 500 to 200. I could have totally brought us all together.”

That… has never happened.

Not once.

I hope they nerf Thieves. I truly do. 1.) I don’t backstab so it will effect me exactly zero… and 2.) I will continue to play a Thief so when the next round of FOTM nerfs come a knockin’ (cough cough Mesmers Warriors and Guardians cough cough) I’m going to revel in your tears as you try to “defend” your class on the forums.

Same song and dance. Same whiners. Different game.

Uh you do realize he can just keep spamming backstab? It doesn’t matter if you dodge. Only bad thieves will get put off by that.

2 second TTK is bad game design but if a failed backstab actually took the thief out of stealth at least that would be something. But it doesn’t even do that. The only thing you can do is double dodge and hope that takes up the whole stealth window…but then he’ll just c&d again and repeat the combo and guess what? You just used both your dodges.

Well, it depends how you are seeing it:

The Backstab-specc is amazing against anything non-bunker. It completely obliterates people in a 1v1. However, the specc is incredible bad against tanky classes. I played with this specc 7+ duels against a tanky-guardian and I lost all of them. With condition specc I won most of them (Also I had 2 orbs (WvWvW) when I was backstab and he had 3 orbs when I was condition-specced, so it was pretty funny).
Good players know how this burst works and can avoid it, though I agree that a skilled thief should win against the majority of the classes with this specc, unless they have very strong and “fast” defensive abilities (like endure pain or mist form) or if they are very tanky.

In a teamfight you drop one guy in 2 seconds and now he is in a downed state. However, the thief is now pretty useless against the rest of the team: He has to stay in melee range, he has like 12k HP and medium armor. The rest of the team will just focus and kill him. After the initial burst he lost a lot of value to the team, at least compared to a sword/pistol thief or a condition-thief.

I’m also not sure if the specc is OP, I guess it depends if you see the balance from a 1v1-view or a team-view. As thief player, I would play my condition-specc with pistol/dagger anyday over double dagger.

TLDR: Specc OP in 1v1 against anything nontanky, specc bad in teamfights and against tanky speccs.

this is an absolute QQ thread about backstabs, I play as thief and I am a crit build , yet my backstabs deal 2.5k and if people gonna start asking for nerf, I would surely laugh if i’ll be seeing my backstab deals 1k below, but id still lovely play my thief.

Hadn’t played my Thief in nearly a month, and when I did I went DB unicorn. Played it during a few matches last night using a high stealth BS build. Stupidly easy to gib people. Backstab not using ini, and using a few stealth skills, basically ensured that I had 2-5 attempts for it at any given moment. Yes, it can be countered. Yes, I’ve killed BS Thieves many times on my Ele. Yes, it’s a gimmick spec, and very glass cannon. Yes, it’s also stupidly easy to use, and does far too much damage for too little of a sacrifice.

Evis, if you play a “crit build” and only nail 2.5k backstabs, you’re obviously not built or geared correctly. I was hitting 2.5k on bunkers, 4-6k on everyone else.

backstab thief is op the build in general is op theres no reason you should be able to do that much damage in such a short time and no even bunker builds cant kill a backstab thief that actually knows how to play even a lil bit i play thief as main and i tried so many builds that are all viable for pvp yet i would allways get owned by all the op specs memer shatter thief bs warrior hundred blades bomber man engi yet when i switch my spec to bs because i got fed up with my homemade specs only being able to beat other people who dont use the op specs i go in matches and terroize i can take on 3 people easily by just strafing and using stealth steal blacpowder heartseeker combo i can stealth forever i can backstab for 6k on heavy targets without using my signet inf act i dont even use the power signet i just put shadow refuge there so i have blinding powder that healing stealth skill and shadow refuge i also have cnd and bp hs so like 6 stealth not to mention if i fight another thief and steal i then have 7 stealth all of witch i can use whenever the kitten i want i kitten everything and theres no challenge even from a full protect warrior or full protect gaurdian sure i dont kill em in 1 2 3 hits but i kill em 4 or 5 and even tho my health is low i still got like 1200 toughness so i never die

Most thieves are killable. I kill plenty everyday. But, that’s because this profession attracts bad players more than the other professions. However, when the thief is played by any semi-decent player, you just don’t stand a chance. Thieves need more baseline health or toughness and less damage. They are just too far out into the extreme of the build spectrum.

I think theives are fine for the most part, what they need to nerf is the port in and stun lock you bs, alot of classes can stun lock and think that should be nerfed or at least toned down a little. Cause more then 3 seconds of stun lock usually = death.

SlimJim.3087:

alot of classes can stun lock and think that should be nerfed or at least toned down a little. Cause more then 3 seconds of stun lock usually = death.

Skills that break stun and Stability are your friends.

Varyag.3751:

SlimJim.3087:

alot of classes can stun lock and think that should be nerfed or at least toned down a little. Cause more then 3 seconds of stun lock usually = death.

Skills that break stun and Stability are your friends.

Well of course they are, but im a ranger and we seem to be severly lacking in this department.

SlimJim.3087:

Well of course they are, but im a ranger and we seem to be severly lacking in this department.

Rampage As One isn’t a bad skill, especially considering that it would stop you being stun locked for 20 seconds…

Varyag.3751:

SlimJim.3087:

Well of course they are, but im a ranger and we seem to be severly lacking in this department.

Rampage As One isn’t a bad skill, especially considering that it would stop you being stun locked for 20 seconds…

So one skill with a long CD and a 1 sec cast time, what do I do save it for when i see a thief and hope I can get the cast off before he ports in and stun locks me… sounds fun not using my skills to kill all the other ppl.

SlimJim.3087:

sounds fun not using my skills to kill all the other ppl.

It is quite fun to occasionally use a skill in the interests of self preservation.

SlimJim.3087:

Varyag.3751:

SlimJim.3087:

Well of course they are, but im a ranger and we seem to be severly lacking in this department.

Rampage As One isn’t a bad skill, especially considering that it would stop you being stun locked for 20 seconds…

So one skill with a long CD and a 1 sec cast time, what do I do save it for when i see a thief and hope I can get the cast off before he ports in and stun locks me… sounds fun not using my skills to kill all the other ppl.

You have a signit that cures all conditions on you, and breaks stun at the same time, a trap that you can put at your feet that will immobilize, and cripple the thief, and a skill that makes your pet take the damage.

There’s not exactly a lack of ways for the ranger to deal with it…

Rottaran Owain.6789:

You have a signit that cures all conditions on you, and breaks stun at the same time, a trap that you can put at your feet that will immobilize, and cripple the thief, and a skill that makes your pet take the damage.

So you think rangers should all run around with a survive thief BS spec and die to all the other classes instead. It seems strange that everyone should be forced into the same spec or die in 2 seconds over and over from one single class.

If nothing else, that should tell you that the one class is OP.

Thief

Assassin’s Signet: This skill has been updated to grant 15% damage for 5 attacks rather than 50% damage for one attack.

Nice. But I guess the rendering bug(?) is hard to fix, where they stay in Stealth longer than they should on the opponent’s screen. Understandable.

We will see what this does. GG and GLHF

I would have been more happy if they lowered it to 25-35% for one attack than 15% for 5 attacks. Overall I guess it’s more, but not sure if it would be too noticeable IMO. Kinda want to try it out and see if I’ll be keeping Sin’s Signet. O.o

I predict Pistol Whip will make a comeback now, since it got nerfed by 15%. But we will see.