Guild Wars 2

For those of you who are much more knowledgeable that I am about how ELO works, please tell me if I am right.

Basically, it will always put you on a team that has a 50/50 chance of winning. Your performance is only 20% of the win or loss…80% is based on the performance of the other team members.

The law of averages means that the teams you are assigned to, will always tend to perform at their rating level: and have 50% wins and 50% losses.

So your rating remains the same, and you never rise?

To actually rise fast you would have to suddenly CARRY your team every match and start winning 90% of the time.

I just can’t see that happening.

good point…

Basically. Solo queing isn’t mean for leaderboards.

It’s good for eSports, but bad for people who want to “be the hero”. That’s why other games let that happen with gear advantage earned simply from time spent in game.

ensoriki.5789:

Basically. Solo queing isn’t mean for leaderboards.

Honestly, this type of comment is indicative of no knowledge on PvP.

Go look at some MoBAs. Solo queuing in a ranked environment works fine. It just doesn’t work here because of a variety of reasons I can’t be bothered listing at the moment.

the idea is good players will eventually get paired together and rise up it can take a while but it works. there are people who have made top 500 from solo queue and we don’t even have separation yet

I’m assuming he meant “Solo queueing isn’t meant for gw2 leaderboards in their current state”.

I agree that it works fine in games that have it supported.

Valkyriez.6578:

ensoriki.5789:

Basically. Solo queing isn’t mean for leaderboards.

Honestly, this type of comment is indicative of no knowledge on PvP.

Go look at some MoBAs. Solo queuing in a ranked environment works fine. It just doesn’t work here because of a variety of reasons I can’t be bothered listing at the moment.

How the hell does it make sense for gw2?
I’ve played wot 1 Moba so I won’t comment but it makes very little sense here given how the game is operating. About as much sense as Random Arenas in gw1 having a leaderboard. Well maybe slightly more then that.
Especially if they follow up on that goal of removing profession swap.

I don’t understand why people expect different results… I mean obviously if you face team that use team speak, have already prepared strategies that work well together, and are playing together most of the time, and if you joining as solo q, no voice com no strategy, not to mention no experience playing together most likely you gonna lose.
I can say for euro servers, its very hard to enter top 1000 as solo q. And I’m not talking about playing with one buddy or two, I’m 95% of time solo q, and I’m around 90% rank cant cross this mark yet. Also I’m way over 50% in win/loss, closing to 60%.
But just so you understand how hard on euro is, look at first team, they are around 65-70%. Even for number one team they are not so dominant because competition is really though.

Not trying to claim that I’m amazing or anything, but I’ve managed to progress up to #298 atm doing solo queue as War. Some if it’s luck of the draw, I only have 60% wins, and matches are almost always very close.

TBH I think it just comes down to making small, good decisions more than anything. There’s been a lot of close losses where I think of something stupid I did that could have got some more points. Usually just choosing to fight outnumbered when I could use my mobility to take the other point.

Brigg.6189:

Not trying to claim that I’m amazing or anything, but I’ve managed to progress up to #298 atm doing solo queue as War. Some if it’s luck of the draw, I only have 60% wins, and matches are almost always very close.

Brigg,

Did you used to play lots of tournaments with a premade team, to get your basic ranking up there? Or did you start below the 1,000 rating and work your way up to #298 soloing?

Not only is it hard to rise up in solo Q, but as you do get your mmr to rise, you eventually end up more likely to face premades and cause your mmr to plummet again.

It’s different in MOBA’s because you can just farm all game and 1v5 the whole enemy team in the end.

That’s the way it works if there’s enough people around for it to put you against said people.

In reality, you’ll often just be playing whoever is available, which can mean premades well above you. Of course if you’re solo queueing you’ll probably lose those, but the opportunity is definitely there.

Brigg.6189:

Not trying to claim that I’m amazing or anything, but I’ve managed to progress up to #298 atm doing solo queue as War. Some if it’s luck of the draw, I only have 60% wins, and matches are almost always very close.

TBH I think it just comes down to making small, good decisions more than anything. There’s been a lot of close losses where I think of something stupid I did that could have got some more points. Usually just choosing to fight outnumbered when I could use my mobility to take the other point.

Not to discredit you, but seems like lots of people get to top 1000 in american servers by solo q. In euro its very hard like that. I’m fighting pre made teams or 3 or 4 players already at 80-90% range on euro. I wonder if there is any player on euro that go top 1000 just by solo q.

I’ve been getting close matches, and it has been fun. But I just faced against a premade right now, and pretty much lost it 500vs15, with one leaver on my team at the middle of the match, and with half the team pretty much having given up early on.

I’m gonna do another match, let’s see if it’s worth it.

EDIT: Against another premade hehe. But we pugs actually won this time.

daydream.2938:

Not only is it hard to rise up in solo Q, but as you do get your mmr to rise, you eventually end up more likely to face premades and cause your mmr to plummet again.

well if those premades are any good they should be higher ranked so you dont lose much, the problem is the mid tier premades who can only beat pugs.

I started at around 800 rank, and have kinda inched up since then. I’ve done very few premades ever (sometimes with a couple friends not over voip, or forming a group with a good solo q pug for a few matches).

And yes, maybe there is some Euro/NA difference. I don’t often get matched up against premades, probably ~10% of matches. Even then premade quality isn’t always that high, can still be beaten sometimes.

Do you only get matched against EU players if you are from EU? And US only against US players?

Laserbolt.6731:

For those of you who are much more knowledgeable that I am about how ELO works, please tell me if I am right.

Basically, it will always put you on a team that has a 50/50 chance of winning. Your performance is only 20% of the win or loss…80% is based on the performance of the other team members.

The law of averages means that the teams you are assigned to, will always tend to perform at their rating level: and have 50% wins and 50% losses.

So your rating remains the same, and you never rise?

To actually rise fast you would have to suddenly CARRY your team every match and start winning 90% of the time.

I just can’t see that happening.

You don’t need to carry your team to beat 50/50 odds, you just need to play at a level above your current MMR. If we maintain your assumptions that, on average, everyone else plays at the level of their MMR, then your team should consistently win so long as you are playing at a level above your own MMR. Ofc, this is pure theory.

In practice, it seems to me that one person making the right decisions can make a huge difference in games. Furthermore, the advantage a team gets tends to snowball over the course of the game. Stated differently, your small “extra” contribution will contribute more than 20% because it will benefit your teammates, too, who will then be able to contribute more.

In my view, the deciding factor in SoloQ is less about your 1v1 or 1vX skills and more about playing intelligently (that is, knowing when and where to move to a different point or to commit to a fight, etc.). In other words, Playing strategically at a level above your MMR is going to make a bigger difference than having superior 1v1-skills (although both are obviously important).

Problem is: If everyone else plays on level of their real rating and they win because 1 player is playing a bit better… then their rating will also go up…

meaning it should not be that uncommon to have players that have a rating higher than their real skill.

Also it could be the other way round.

Luthan.5236:

Problem is: If everyone else plays on level of their real rating and they win because 1 player is playing a bit better… then their rating will also go up…

meaning it should not be that uncommon to have players that have a rating higher than their real skill.

Also it could be the other way round.

Well, this problem only occurs if those people consistently get teammates who are underranked (ie play at a higher level).

The bigger problem, as others have pointed out, is that there just doesn’t seem to be enough people playing for the law of numbers to work out.

kaplis.7195:

It’s different in MOBA’s because you can just farm all game and 1v5 the whole enemy team in the end.

Something to be said for this. in a moba a much stronger player in the lane can outclass and outgear his rivals. Leading to a mechanical advantage later on the game that might allow one to carry. this is not true in gw2.

daydream.2938:

kaplis.7195:

It’s different in MOBA’s because you can just farm all game and 1v5 the whole enemy team in the end.

Something to be said for this. in a moba a much stronger player in the lane can outclass and outgear his rivals. Leading to a mechanical advantage later on the game that might allow one to carry. this is not true in gw2.

Whilst that is true, in end phase if your team can hold them out you will eventually catch up. It just depends on the snowball.

Solo que would work in this game to a degree if it was split from teams with an effective MMR.

Check this out.

I soloqued for 2 days. From 520 I went to 60percentile.
I played last night from 8:30pm to 2am and got my self back to 560.

So before I collapse,

moral of the story – NEVER soloque again.

What im saying is that the high win ratio of Solo quers WONT translate into GW2 . its clear that a solo Q will correlate more highly with skill ( and class balance expression) than what we have now.

I think you will see mostly eles and guardian bunkers, are they are probably the classes that can make the most difference in a solo Q environment. having said that, some classes might be weak at carry but very strong in organized team games, like a necro, or possibly a Mesmer.

Bunkers are definitely the way to go for soloq. They have been indirectly buffed last patch (and that will only change from next patch and on), and usually, if they can hold the points at the beginning of the match, the match is probably won for them.

I’ve been playing a bunker ele, and I’ve definitely noticed that bunker eles and bunker guardians are this month’s soloq meta. There are many times where I feel like I carried the team, especially in closed matches where I can successfully hold an ally or neutral points multiple times or for long periods of time. Usually, I get killed against coordenated spikers, the occasional really good duo, or zergs, but, especially for the later case, that gives space to my team to get the other points back.

Also, this bunker meta is a bit stale. Lol. When your team is losing and you know each point is being guarded by a good bunker ele/ guardian, 1v1, 2v2 or even 3v2 point battles take forever, all the while their team is scoring. When (if) a team gets to reverse the tides, the other one is usually winning by 100-200+ already.

It works alright in a perfect world, but issues like 5v4s, unfair team comps etc can screw it over.
Basically if your team’s average rating is lower than the enemy team’s average rating and you win, then your rating will go up to match it. If you lose it doesn’t matter since they were likely to win anyway. Their rating does not go up and yours does not go down.

Eventually you will catch a break and be fighting people above your rank, and you may have the team mates to pull it off (lol like the matchmaking here works). You will either be carried or pull your weight in order to win. Either way, your rating goes up to match your enemies if you win, and theirs will likely drop since they lost to a low rank player. If you lose your rating won’t change much since they were higher rank. Chances are theirs won’t either.

Now, next game. After last game your rank went up. If you were carried then you’re going to have a bad time. Because your mirror on the other team is genuinely high rated.

If you are sure of your skills , create a premade with skilled players. When you beat an enemy team with a high rating, your own rating will shoot up to match theirs. Next game you will be surrounded by high rank players, but you better be prepared.

It’s just very hard to carry in gw2, just like daydream said. So I wonder how you’ll get to the top solo-queuing when they split the leaderboards besides being lucky with your teammates. But that might change when we actually get the split.