Guild Wars 2

I am happy ArenaNet is mixing up the SoloQ teams so that higher-skilled players are no longer grouped together against low teams.

But now many of these higher-MMR players are complaining that this is just not as enjoyable as being on an “elite” team, winning the majority of your matches, and becoming “famous” on a leaderboard for everyone to notice you as well.

So, they are complaining and many will probably leave. Many have already left to play some other game.

What they should do is make a team and play Team Queue. That is what it is there for: serious, team-based players.

SoloQ is becoming more a set of lower-ranked, casual, less knowledgable players. There is less sophistication in strategy, less teamwork, and more hot-join-like chaos.

But that is the population that is available right now.

Yup thats solo Q. When im doing solo q i give instruction as long as those new player follow instruction everything will be much easier and game would be closer not a landslide game.. But if the newbie doesnt read team chat. and just roam around not knowing wat to do then its over. and will just hope the other team newbie is doing thesame. But yeah mixing it up is better than facing a full stack team on ts. :P

SoloQ would be close to perfect if more people played.

that’s not always true.

I was in a match with Xerrex and since all the classes i’ve been used to have become cheesy and unskillful ( i’m only left with my thief right now) i’m now trying to learn mesmer ( that i obviously don’t play at max, and not on par with my ladder rank).

He gave me advices without being rude and he carried me all the match.

Top players should be also top guys, otherwise they can kitten themselves.

When i’m on my thief and i got bad teammates i always try to carry them without saying a word.

i wonder if matching algo has mixing or uniform feature in it. eg

if there are 10 players r50 and 10 players r10 in the queue pool, will it group

version 1 uniform
(r50 x 5) vs (r50 x 5)
(r10 x 5) vs (r10 x 5)

or

version 2 mixed
(r50x3 + r10x2) vs (r50x3 + r10x2)
(r50x2+ r10x3) vs (r50x2+ r10x3)

i see pro and con in each, but being r20 myself (and interested in learning from more experienced players), i’d rather have v2.

than they are not TOP Players

simple

when you join a match than you have your team – your team is not your enemy, what you have to fight with stupid chat or afk or bad playing or whatever

they are YOUR team and YOU have to do your best to win and when not than you just dont deserve to win and will go down in ranking

its a filter who is rly pro and who need to be carried to be top^^

simple

edit: and being top 100 in the old leaderboard dont mean you are top player – NOW you can proof you are top or just a wannabe^^

I just don’t want a leaderboard on solo q/combined with NO hotjoin.

Much better.

I started to prefer going into Team Queue.

There are many people joining solo, so you don’t have to wait much, and you will often be put against other pugs.

Pros:

You play with more experienced people who will always try to win the game (no teams that fight all together in the middle of Skyhammer while all points are controlled by the enemy)

You play AGAINST more experienced people, so fights are actually challenging. I actually feel to get worse every time I roflstomp a heartseeker spamming thieves or new warriors who still have no clue about the class. I feel like that was unfair, and I get depressed.

NO skyhammer! YAY!
(and it’s not like players who don’t like don’t like to adapt: other new maps like Temple of the Silent Storm and Spirit Watch are actually fun. Problem with Skyhammer is that either you get a beating because you didn’t build for it or build for it and win cheapily. Even if I adapt, I can’t have fun from that map)

I haven’t heard of any top players complaining about the teams not being stacked.

Where are you getting this information?

What I -DO- hear top players complaining about is being in matches where half the players are single digit ranks… Like someone else said earlier, those matches basically come down to who gets the least terrible players on their team. Splitting solo Q pools into tiers would fix this. The common counter-argument to that is that wait times would be insane. However if pvp had more incentive to offer its players population wouldn’t be a problem at all. Funny how the puzzle is fitting together. I hope anet goes through and reaches our expectations.

gesho.9468:

i wonder if matching algo has mixing or uniform feature in it. eg

if there are 10 players r50 and 10 players r10 in the queue pool, will it group

version 1 uniform
(r50 x 5) vs (r50 x 5)
(r10 x 5) vs (r10 x 5)

or

version 2 mixed
(r50x3 + r10x2) vs (r50x3 + r10x2)
(r50x2+ r10x3) vs (r50x2+ r10x3)

i see pro and con in each, but being r20 myself (and interested in learning from more experienced players), i’d rather have v2.

And again we have someone confusion the pvp-glory-rank with the leaderboard rank. Please rename the pvp-glory rank!

gesho.9468:

i wonder if matching algo has mixing or uniform feature in it. eg

if there are 10 players r50 and 10 players r10 in the queue pool, will it group

version 1 uniform
(r50 x 5) vs (r50 x 5)
(r10 x 5) vs (r10 x 5)

or

version 2 mixed
(r50x3 + r10x2) vs (r50x3 + r10x2)
(r50x2+ r10x3) vs (r50x2+ r10x3)

i see pro and con in each, but being r20 myself (and interested in learning from more experienced players), i’d rather have v2.

You don’t learn anything having r50 in your team they’ll just type noob in caps anyways watch streams that teaches you more believe me

Romek.4201:

than they are not TOP Players

simple

when you join a match than you have your team – your team is not your enemy, what you have to fight with stupid chat or afk or bad playing or whatever

they are YOUR team and YOU have to do your best to win and when not than you just dont deserve to win and will go down in ranking

its a filter who is rly pro and who need to be carried to be top^^

simple

edit: and being top 100 in the old leaderboard dont mean you are top player – NOW you can proof you are top or just a wannabe^^

dude , i hope you play on EU server. Just wait till you get me in your team , i will teach you some lessons. I went from 0 to top 42 and down to 0 by going afk many games and again back top 50 if i carry all those noobs. But it has come to an end , i dont need to prove anything and i am kittening tired to carry all this kitten out there.

like someone said on forums already —->

savov.3712:

Justin ODell.9517:

I’ve gotten a few PMs about this, so I’ll post what I was going to say to each of them here.

There are only three things being considered in the current matchmaking; 1) your MMR, 2) how long you’ve been waiting, and 3) who is available to play with.

1) MMR is not broken, it works exactly as it should and I’ve personally verified this. Yes, we want to place new players on the curve better, but simply lowering the default rating will only work if the curve has already been established. As a reminder, everyone’s MMR is being reset on the 29th, so that takes changing the default off of the table.

If you’re trying to gauge the correctness of the MMR based off the leaderboards, you will very likely fail because decay makes things much less predictable and consistent. Even more so now that we have increased the frequency of the decay calculation.

For details on the MMR system we use, please go here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glicko_rating_system

We’re open to suggestions regarding other ways of handling MMR.

We’re discussing ways to place new players more appropriately, and we’re open to suggestions in this area as well. The only thing that is off the table right now is splitting the user base, we can’t do this until it gets larger. We have several plans being implemented right now that are aimed at increasing the number of players.

2) When we scan through the queue to find matches, we use your ratings deviation. As time goes on we gradually increase your ratings deviation to increase the odds that we’ll find a match for you. This does lead to lower quality matches, but its very common to do this on the assumption that a lower quality match is better than no match at all.

If you’re on the outer edges of the ratings curve, this is very likely the culprit for why you’re being matched with players with a much different skill level than your own.

3) Related to #2. During low concurrency you will likely need to wait a longer amount of time because there are fewer people around your skill level, increasing the odds #2 will kick in and you’ll get a lower quality match.

That said, a few people that are on the high rating side are upset because they are now being grouped with lower skill players. Before the matchmaking change these higher rated players would be grouped together and they would just stomp the other team. Now they are being shuffled around on teams, which means no more lopsided matches in general. You can still get a lopsided by chance just because of who was available at the time, but even when this happens the match is still much more even than before the changes went in.

I guess that’s the long way of saying “Oh, sorry guys, but for the last year we screwed PvP so much, that now there ain’t enough players for you to get matched up with”.

Edo,

I don’t think you are going to be allowed to play any games for awhile.

Is not about having an elite team…… at all

It’s just frustrating having your team who won’t listen, rotate. Who are always fighting/dying off point, instantly going do and and rallying the enemy team. and regardless of how well you play. you still lose because you’re expected to be expected to carry people who are clueless.

PS: TeamQ is worse. with a pug of decent players you will stomp every other pug, or get stomped by an actual team. over and over because there are so few people doing TQ

google.3709:

Is not about having an elite team…… at all

It’s just frustrating having your team who won’t listen, rotate. Who are always fighting/dying off point, instantly going do and and rallying the enemy team. and regardless of how well you play. you still lose because you’re expected to be expected to carry people who are clueless.

PS: TeamQ is worse. with a pug of decent players you will stomp every other pug, or get stomped by an actual team. over and over because there are so few people doing TQ

You don’t seem to understand that under the old system you benefited by being put on stacked team and facing the type of players you are bad mouthing here a good portion of the time. I don’t know how it’s unfair when everyone is facing the same type of obstacles. Don’t get me wrong I think the very unexperienced say rank 10-15 and under should be in there own kiddie pool but I have been asking for that for months. I didn’t decide it was necessary because I was highly ranked and then somebody took my free wins away and I had to start dealing with newbs in a lot of matches like 90% of the players have had too all along.

Edo Tensei.8254:

Romek.4201:

than they are not TOP Players

simple

when you join a match than you have your team – your team is not your enemy, what you have to fight with stupid chat or afk or bad playing or whatever

they are YOUR team and YOU have to do your best to win and when not than you just dont deserve to win and will go down in ranking

its a filter who is rly pro and who need to be carried to be top^^

simple

edit: and being top 100 in the old leaderboard dont mean you are top player – NOW you can proof you are top or just a wannabe^^

dude , i hope you play on EU server. Just wait till you get me in your team , i will teach you some lessons. I went from 0 to top 42 and down to 0 by going afk many games and again back top 50 if i carry all those noobs. But it has come to an end , i dont need to prove anything and i am kittening tired to carry all this kitten out there.

like someone said on forums already —->

savov.3712:

Justin ODell.9517:

I’ve gotten a few PMs about this, so I’ll post what I was going to say to each of them here.

There are only three things being considered in the current matchmaking; 1) your MMR, 2) how long you’ve been waiting, and 3) who is available to play with.

1) MMR is not broken, it works exactly as it should and I’ve personally verified this. Yes, we want to place new players on the curve better, but simply lowering the default rating will only work if the curve has already been established. As a reminder, everyone’s MMR is being reset on the 29th, so that takes changing the default off of the table.

If you’re trying to gauge the correctness of the MMR based off the leaderboards, you will very likely fail because decay makes things much less predictable and consistent. Even more so now that we have increased the frequency of the decay calculation.

For details on the MMR system we use, please go here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glicko_rating_system

We’re open to suggestions regarding other ways of handling MMR.

We’re discussing ways to place new players more appropriately, and we’re open to suggestions in this area as well. The only thing that is off the table right now is splitting the user base, we can’t do this until it gets larger. We have several plans being implemented right now that are aimed at increasing the number of players.

2) When we scan through the queue to find matches, we use your ratings deviation. As time goes on we gradually increase your ratings deviation to increase the odds that we’ll find a match for you. This does lead to lower quality matches, but its very common to do this on the assumption that a lower quality match is better than no match at all.

If you’re on the outer edges of the ratings curve, this is very likely the culprit for why you’re being matched with players with a much different skill level than your own.

3) Related to #2. During low concurrency you will likely need to wait a longer amount of time because there are fewer people around your skill level, increasing the odds #2 will kick in and you’ll get a lower quality match.

That said, a few people that are on the high rating side are upset because they are now being grouped with lower skill players. Before the matchmaking change these higher rated players would be grouped together and they would just stomp the other team. Now they are being shuffled around on teams, which means no more lopsided matches in general. You can still get a lopsided by chance just because of who was available at the time, but even when this happens the match is still much more even than before the changes went in.

I guess that’s the long way of saying “Oh, sorry guys, but for the last year we screwed PvP so much, that now there ain’t enough players for you to get matched up with”.

Lolz. One thought after reading this: Legend in your own mind. Romek is 100% correct btw sorry it upsets you.

It’s the same type of obstacles tho :/ stacked teams still exist. the definition just of stacked just changed from good players to bad players.

they could just taken those 10 people from the old system and shuffle them up. woulda been perfect. but when you take someone with high MMR and Stack him with 4 people just learning the game. how’s the fair?

• A stacked team used to be 3+ great players in a same team.
• A stacked team now is having 2 decent people who know how to rotate.

that isn’t fair for anybody. and i’m sure like myself, everyone just wants to have great matches and fun games, regardless of win or lose. but its difficult with this system. the same players dragging the team down, usually end up rage quitting making it 4v5 on an already losing game.

Fundamentally it’s a flaw of the game mode, conquest is more punishing towards lack of cooperation/strategy which is exacerbated by new players. Add to this small population, and there is the root cause. Adjusting the formula isn’t going to fix it, only new simpler game type such as deathmatch with grand objective (ie kill guild lord) combined with resurgence of playerbase.

Oh god stop the QQ… Just wait until the reset when there’s going to be an influx of old and new players…

I don’t know why you are all raging about this if you rank is going to be reset anyway. The algorithm is better, the matches are more evened out but there are simply NOT ENOUGH PEOPLE PLAYING. If you’re that good than just go TeamQ^^

Lux.7169:

I haven’t heard of any top players complaining about the teams not being stacked.

Where are you getting this information?

What I -DO- hear top players complaining about is being in matches where half the players are single digit ranks… Like someone else said earlier, those matches basically come down to who gets the least terrible players on their team. Splitting solo Q pools into tiers would fix this. The common counter-argument to that is that wait times would be insane. However if pvp had more incentive to offer its players population wouldn’t be a problem at all. Funny how the puzzle is fitting together. I hope anet goes through and reaches our expectations.

Hey, let’s look at this the other way. If there were more people playing and getting decent then you wouldn’t have the current need-to-carry problems for the veterans either. So adding tiers would just be a quick fix that would make things worse for players overall and not solve the real problem.

Solving the real problem and not adding tiers is the best solution.

Proven.2854:

Lux.7169:

I haven’t heard of any top players complaining about the teams not being stacked.

Where are you getting this information?

What I -DO- hear top players complaining about is being in matches where half the players are single digit ranks… Like someone else said earlier, those matches basically come down to who gets the least terrible players on their team. Splitting solo Q pools into tiers would fix this. The common counter-argument to that is that wait times would be insane. However if pvp had more incentive to offer its players population wouldn’t be a problem at all. Funny how the puzzle is fitting together. I hope anet goes through and reaches our expectations.

Hey, let’s look at this the other way. If there were more people playing and getting decent then you wouldn’t have the current need-to-carry problems for the veterans either. So adding tiers would just be a quick fix that would make things worse for players overall and not solve the real problem.

Solving the real problem and not adding tiers is the best solution.

How is adding incentive and creating tiers a temp fix?
Not once did I mention vets have a “need-to-carry” problem.

It’s kind of sad, really.
They managed to fix the matchmaking but it doesn’t matter too much since the playerbase is low and this isn’t a 1 vs 1 game, it requires 10 players for a single match, so it’s harder to balance the match.

They also have some cool ideas, like balancing teams by professions and whatnot, but what’s the point, if the playerbase is low, it will try to balance the match for 10 minutes and then throw whatever it has so you can atleast play, even if it’s 5 mesmers.

Then there is these amazing ideas that will make the playerbase grow by… by what ? By giving rewards ? So we will have more pve players farming ? Or even better, splitting the already low playerbase into some “leagues”, so queues reach 20 minutes (who is going to play with 20 minutes queues ?, what will remain of the playerbase, people with infinite free-time ? )

The truth is sad and hopeless, spvp will die slowly. It will happen unless they somewhat revive the hype with an expansion with pvp improvements (big improvements) or they do an expansion worth patch of pvp (i don’t see either one coming). The worst thing, is that if the boss that decides what to do is not completely deluded into the spvp madness and is a bit rational, there is no way he or she will think that an expansion woth patch or even an expansion pvp is a good idea to make money. Yeah, let’s put all this money and time into spvp so maybe we can regain the playerbase that we previously hyped and dehyped and maybe be a success (lots of maybes), or let’s do more pve and gain more money… A really hard choice as you can see…
But developers need to eat (and avoid depression), so it’s better for everybody to stay with the nice fantasy (we will do X and Y and players will come again). As some wise man said, life is that kitten that happens while you’re waiting for moments that never come. And here we are, waiting for a moment that will never come.

Lux.7169:

Proven.2854:

Lux.7169:

I haven’t heard of any top players complaining about the teams not being stacked.

Where are you getting this information?

What I -DO- hear top players complaining about is being in matches where half the players are single digit ranks… Like someone else said earlier, those matches basically come down to who gets the least terrible players on their team. Splitting solo Q pools into tiers would fix this. The common counter-argument to that is that wait times would be insane. However if pvp had more incentive to offer its players population wouldn’t be a problem at all. Funny how the puzzle is fitting together. I hope anet goes through and reaches our expectations.

Hey, let’s look at this the other way. If there were more people playing and getting decent then you wouldn’t have the current need-to-carry problems for the veterans either. So adding tiers would just be a quick fix that would make things worse for players overall and not solve the real problem.

Solving the real problem and not adding tiers is the best solution.

How is adding incentive and creating tiers a temp fix?
Not once did I mention vets have a “need-to-carry” problem.

Yeah, I reworded what you said. Why? Because of the overall discussion. Thread title and all.

How is what you’re suggesting adding incentive? How would it help the game? It would make the overall experience worse with longer queue times until more players are brought in. But if more players are brought in, get good at conquest, and move up in the ranks, then you don’t even need tiers.

Tiers are not the answer.