Guild Wars 2

I play a P/D Acro 30, Shadow 10, Trickery 30 anti bunker build. I enjoy it. It’s fast paced, very annoying and high survivability based solely on how well I can predict my opponent. Although I will occasionally play other builds including D/D to keep a more well rounded experience.

I’ve seen countless… COUNTLESS… threads whining about thieves. Ranging from their burst (the most common complaint) to their downed state. No matter what the build, dollars to dimes, there’s a group of people out there ready to do a sit in at ANet’s HQ until it gets nerfed.

This is the part I don’t understand: Thieves aren’t the only ones who can do this stuff; so why all the hate?

Whether it’s a warrior stunning > 100b, a guardian CC’ing you to death, a mesmer shatter nuking, a D/D ele putting the kaibash on you ever having control of your character or an Engi KD>root trolling you into oblivion… it’s the same difference.

“It’s a matter of skill. It takes no skill to play a thief.”

Last I checked thieves have the same number of ability slots as everyone else. And last time I played my warrior and guardian it took the same amount of key strokes to down my opponents. The only difference being my Guardian takes 7 seconds to kill someone as they’re forced to watch helplessly as I smash them to bits and my Axe/Axe warrior obliterates opponents so fast that sometimes I confuse even myself as to what’s going on.

I simply don’t understand the mindset.

My CC engi is just nuts. Completely nuts. Compared to my Anti Bunker thief I mentioned at the open of this thread, my CC engi is a beast. And I’m not even good with him. And don’t even get me started on my D/D ele. I called out how powerful D/D could be long before D/D ele started getting popular. You can check my posting history on that. It’s amazing more people haven’t caught onto this.

The point is I play a pretty eclectic list of classes and I simply don’t understand why only one class is being singled out here. The skill to kill ratio isn’t vast between these builds. If you TRULY believe it takes less skill as a thief in comparison to the aforementioned combos…

You’re on a level of self delusion I simply cannot fathom.

Devs state it, that means it must be true… burst damage is to high on some classes. I find thiefs fine b/c they just die faster to me on my guard…. So dunno /shrug

1- guardian 100b build,doesn’t have hide skills.
If 100 blade warrior rush on me,and fails,cannot relay on CandD to start backstab me and abuse the rendering problem.
2-guardian:the same as 100b warrior.
3-mesmer,they are also able to abuse the rendering problem,so as thief class,they need a review.

The biggest problem wth hide class like thief and mesmers,is the rendering.In some case is the dps.
If they nerf(balance) the dps,without adjust the rendering problem,they will solve nothing.

Also,last time u checked the number of your skills,did you also checked the fact that thief skills work on initiative?
Usually,the strongest skills on a common class,have a long CD.
Not in the case of thief,that can spam 2+ time the same skill,and wait just 5 seconds to spam it again.
Initiative is another problem that may be addressed.May be it charge to fast?
No class should be able to spam a skill that provide awesome benefits,like the 5th skill of the thief(on all his weapons :blind on pistol,hide on dagger,teleport/blind on bow).

I have a thief,parked because easy to play,no challange=boring.

Also,we can complaint as much as we want,but,if you pay attenction,Anet devs play the game,have statistics, in short they have many way to gain data about classes and balance.
The last things they have the forum feedback.
They can easly detect what is a fake QQing , from what is a real problem,checking the tons of data they have.
In the end,don’t worry about thief complaint on forum ,the nerf (aca balance) update that will hit classes,is mainly based on DATA,not on QQ .

I apologize for my english.
Regards

If they want to remove the burst I agree but the damage shouldnt just be removed it should be spread out across abilitys, provide alternative builds, improve flanking strike for example.

The Devs stated they’re looking at things. They have admitted to nothing and committed to even less.

That, however, is not my point. I’m not arguing that Thieves do not need an adjustment on some builds. Nor am I saying they do.

I’m saying they’re not alone nor even close to the worst offenders this game has to offer yet they’re the most whined about.

I would like to know why.

From what I understand from reading various threads and posts on here it is a number of things. I think it all comes down to whether or not people feel like they have a chance:

-Stealth drives many folks up the wall. High burst builds coupled with stealth is a lot of damage with a lot of defense. This is primarily a case with thieves and mesmers for obvious reasons. If a person manages to survive the burst and retaliate effectively, the thief or mesmer can often times just vanish and leave the battle altogether. People do not like that these two professions do not necessarily have to commit to a fight once they engage in one and fail to see driving the thief or mesmer off as a victory.

-Using cc in sequence for long duration control while you kill the opponent is undoubtedly something that is also frustrating to many players, but it isn’t burst in the same regard. People do not care about how many key strokes, per say, but by how long it takes. If they get jumped and do not have their cooldowns up, die in 2-3 seconds, then they feel powerless. If a cc queen does the same thing the player has more time to consider what is going on and a greater window of opportunity for their cooldowns to come up or other players to intervene. This window may not be effectively very large depending on the builds being used, but in many cases it is long enough to give people a greater feeling of control … even if it is only illusionary.

-Raw probability. Jump into hot join and there is a good chance you will see a surplus of thieves in regards to other professions. As far as I can tell, hot join is played over free/payed tournies from a strict number of users point of view. If more people play hot join, and hot join is made up significantly by thieves, then you should expect more complaints regarding thief abilities. I’ve played hot join games where there were no thieves to be found, but that is a rare case. It is true that you can come across games where any profession is dominating in population, but I am not talking about what is possible in hot join composition, only what is more common.

I’m not defending, advocating, or crying. This is just how I understand the sentiment you are referring to.

TheZeus.8617:

Devs state it, that means it must be true… burst damage is to high on some classes. I find thiefs fine b/c they just die faster to me on my guard…. So dunno /shrug

LOOK AT THIS GUY. ALL POWERFUL n STUFF

rickshaw.5279:

The Devs stated they’re looking at things. They have admitted to nothing and committed to even less.

That, however, is not my point. I’m not arguing that Thieves do not need an adjustment on some builds. Nor am I saying they do.

I’m saying they’re not alone nor even close to the worst offenders this game has to offer yet they’re the most whined about.

I would like to know why.

Thats obvious, the backstab build, it is indeed powerful but its a one trick pony where you blow all cooldowns and it doesnt reflect the overall performance of thiefs which is the problem when they nerf.

The OP misses the point: it’s not about how powerful the build is, it’s how cheesy it is: it’s a matter of fun.

At the end of the day, we all play this game for fun, and unfortunately ANet has for some reason created a game chock full of super-cheesy builds where every encounter is essentially rock paper scissors based on what build you happen to be running. That makes the game very frustrating at times, and that’s why there’s so much hate.

For thieves specifically, it’s not as if you get down 80% HP and then have a chance to rally and even out the encounter; personally if a glass cannon thief jumps me, I’m dead before a single animation plays out. And I’m running a beast of a machine.

It’s just not fun.

Right now as it is, an engagement with a thief isn’t fun. Only for the thief. Every time I get jumped by a thief, I give a silent sigh and proceed to pop my defensive CDs so I won’t die in 2 seconds (even though I have close to 1.9k toughness). If my CD happens to be up, I’m effectively gone. Not only that, the thief will just stealth stomp you. Its not like fighting warriors or mesmers.

Imagine a new player, trying out SPVP. He’s going to get so frustrated and maybe even stop playing PVP all together. Balance will bring more skill- and fun to SPVP. Less cheap burst and more substained and “skill required” damage. Then perhaps we won’t see like 8 thieves in a match, or everyone running bunker builds.

CakeOrDeath.4859:

The OP misses the point: it’s not about how powerful the build is, it’s how cheesy it is: it’s a matter of fun.

At the end of the day, we all play this game for fun, and unfortunately ANet has for some reason created a game chock full of super-cheesy builds where every encounter is essentially rock paper scissors based on what build you happen to be running. That makes the game very frustrating at times, and that’s why there’s so much hate.

For thieves specifically, it’s not as if you get down 80% HP and then have a chance to rally and even out the encounter; personally if a glass cannon thief jumps me, I’m dead before a single animation plays out. And I’m running a beast of a machine.

It’s just not fun.

I play an Ele without any points in toughness(only in vitality) and I have never been killed as fast as people describe here on the forums by a single thief. Ever. I always have a chance to react. Granted, sometimes my defensive spells are on CD, but that happens in PvP..

OT: When did cheesy start being used? People use in so many different contexts. Most annoying trend I’ve seen so far on a game forum.

Thief burst is a little different because it doesn’t show an animation to speak of. A d/d thief at a rnage going 5, f1 is more difficult for most players to avoid than axe/axe – even if it is less lethal.

Personally I don’t think thief damage needs a nerf, maybe make mug master or grand master? I think we just need a greater selection of neck options to allow hybrid builds (non bunker non dps non pure control) to be more viabe. The big problem with the d/d thief combo is that it literally 1 shots several classes using several necks. This forces some classes to play only with the defensive necks, which often don’t offer the correct blend of offensive attributes to be viable for anything but bunkering.

rickshaw.5279:

If you TRULY believe it takes less skill as a thief in comparison to the aforementioned combos…

There’s only one class that has multiple videos of people quite literally random smashing their keyboard and getting kills on other players in PvP. I wonder which class that is….

Could be the one that only class capable of this is setting a new high of most braindead MMO class design ever, and we’re not talking about top tier tourney play vs highly coordinated teams but just in general play which is where the majority of pvp occurs. Yes, the top 1% deal with thieves fine that’s true. Most of that top 1% have still commented on how stupid easy the class/spec is at the same time. Also the top 1% is not the only factor in maintaining a pvp player base no matter how much they like to think so.

For the record if you have a mouse or keyboard with the functionality built in you can reduce the thief to 1 button via macro for complete backstab burst ability chain and then bind this macro key to every key on your keyboard and then smash it even more randomly while watching tv. I like ANet and think they show great care with their community that far exceeds other MMOs. I also think they designed the most stupid easy “invisible ganker” thief/rogue/assassin class in an MMO in a long long time.

People complain about thieves because their damage is almost entirely frontloaded (exception: Deathblossom/Bleed oriented builds and other oddball stuff). While a Thief might do the same dps over 30 seconds as an Ele, most of that damage comes in huge spikes with periods of downtime (back to stealth) as opposed to constant high pressure while rotating defensive cooldowns/dodges/heals.

Since the vast majority of people playing the game are pretty casual, their window to deal with a thief is much smaller than their window to deal with some kind of sustained dps class. More time to react means more opportunities for your opponent to mess up or more opportunities for you to outplay them by shutting down part of their damage combo. Throw in the fact that most classes are vulnerable while doing damage simply by virtue of having a limited number of dodges and damage mitigation cooldowns, giving people the impression they at least have a fighting chance.

So that’s why people complain about Thieves. Tiny window to react to immense frontloaded damage combined with no ability to really respond effectively should you manage to survive it (if you don’t know what signs to look for and/or aren’t well-versed in thief mechanics). A couple of builds from other classes can achieve similar results from a frontloaded damage point of view, but are almost always left significantly more vulnerable in return, should the burst fail, because they don’t have the luxury of lolinvisible!

CakeOrDeath.4859:

The OP misses the point…

I’m not missing the point I’m, in fact, asking for one. So actually, of the two of us, in this exchange I’m not the one “missing the point.” Irony.

But I understand your sentiment.

Allarius.5670:

From what I understand from reading various threads and posts on here it is a number of things. I think it all comes down to whether or not people feel like they have a chance:

-Stealth drives many folks up the wall. High burst builds coupled with stealth is a lot of damage with a lot of defense. This is primarily a case with thieves and mesmers for obvious reasons. If a person manages to survive the burst and retaliate effectively, the thief or mesmer can often times just vanish and leave the battle altogether. People do not like that these two professions do not necessarily have to commit to a fight once they engage in one and fail to see driving the thief or mesmer off as a victory.

-Using cc in sequence for long duration control while you kill the opponent is undoubtedly something that is also frustrating to many players, but it isn’t burst in the same regard. People do not care about how many key strokes, per say, but by how long it takes. If they get jumped and do not have their cooldowns up, die in 2-3 seconds, then they feel powerless. If a cc queen does the same thing the player has more time to consider what is going on and a greater window of opportunity for their cooldowns to come up or other players to intervene. This window may not be effectively very large depending on the builds being used, but in many cases it is long enough to give people a greater feeling of control … even if it is only illusionary.

-Raw probability. Jump into hot join and there is a good chance you will see a surplus of thieves in regards to other professions. As far as I can tell, hot join is played over free/payed tournies from a strict number of users point of view. If more people play hot join, and hot join is made up significantly by thieves, then you should expect more complaints regarding thief abilities. I’ve played hot join games where there were no thieves to be found, but that is a rare case. It is true that you can come across games where any profession is dominating in population, but I am not talking about what is possible in hot join composition, only what is more common.

I’m not defending, advocating, or crying. This is just how I understand the sentiment you are referring to.

This is probably the best response so far. I thank you for that and your time.

Arc.9374:

A couple of builds from other classes can achieve similar results from a frontloaded damage point of view, but are almost always left significantly more vulnerable in return, should the burst fail, because they don’t have the luxury of lolinvisible!

While I agree that people will always complain about frontloaded builds, this last part isn’t true.

While a thief can stealth 4 seconds after his initial failed burst attempt and teleport away with shortbow, other classes have escapes as well.
Warriors have endure pain/whirlwind/charge/shield block/leap.
A mesmer has distortion and either stealth or teleport.

Those 3 are the main frontloaded burst classes you see. All of them have ways out of failed burst attempts. If anything, being immune to all incoming damage is infinitely stronger than being invisible, especially with the amount of AoE abilities in the game.

People whine about theives because they run glass cannon, and are downed by a theif in 1.5 seconds before their rig can even render them into existence.

It feels cheap, when really its not all that bad.

rickshaw.5279:

…
The point is I play a pretty eclectic list of classes and I simply don’t understand why only one class is being singled out here. The skill to kill ratio isn’t vast between these builds. If you TRULY believe it takes less skill as a thief in comparison to the aforementioned combos…

You’re on a level of self delusion I simply cannot fathom.

Besides the other 2 op classes (guardians and mesmers), bunker ele’s and engi’s are the best for consistently standing up to thief cheese builds. They all have varying degrees of extremes that need to be adjusted, and some classes need to be brought nearer to their level of sustainability.

I think thieves take alot of heat because:

They are the most annoying class, arguably gamebreaking for some. It’s already bad enough when a class or build can kill you in 2-5 seconds (non-bunkers), but thieves do it best and then simply disappear or run off if things don’t work out. Suffice to say they’d easily have the highest kill/death ratio, and it has more to do with stealth, high mobility, AND the highest burst capability rather than sheer skill.

Not to disrespect skilled thief players, but they have the upperhand of being generally uncatchable + extremely dangerous. Still, there’s plenty of talk about other class eccentricities, even when thieves are catching the most flak.

If they made steal a 300% move speed charge type deal instead of a shadowstep it would probably be fine since it could be reaction evaded instead of prediction evaded. Who knows what they will do.

Hopefully remove the teleport and instead allow the mug trait to steal gems from the player.

I think it will be much easier to bring the dps numbers in line to balance the class out.

To me, a rouge, or thief, or assassin should be known for their stealth, mobility, escape-ability, and cunningness to seek out vulnerable and weak targets, strike, then get away.

But I see how some players also wanna have them as ‘3-shot death strike assassins’ or something. Well let’s just call this class ‘the killer class’ while the rest of us stand around swinging at the air. We’ll just hope they don’t come back while we’re fighting the others (with most of our health now missing), because we can’t drop target too.

As a Warrior, I wish they’d change the 100B functionality just so people would stop talking about it as though it’s actually a problem. “Warriors are overpowered!” “How?” "Well, HB is – " Yes, yes. Anything else? No. I didn’t think so. What, Eviscerate? You want to talk about that? Not really? How surprising.

@Plague

It’s not just 100b, Plague. My ranged warrior build is I-N-S-A-N-E. Completely over the top. Spec for crit, Adrenaline Regen, Weapon swap, slot strength on both Rifle & Bow, util signets across the board.

You’re looking at a RANGED wrecking ball with 28k health, nearly 3k armor, upwards of 70% crit and dumping adrenaline bursts every 6 seconds. And on top of all of that you have the single most synergistic ranged weapon sets (rifle/bow) in the entire game. EVERY slot is used and works well with one another and the damage is just phenomenal. My ranged warrior is probably my strongest performing PvP toon. If left to his own devices he just wrecks, completely wrecks entire groups.

Add to that, the fact that warriors have been almost unilaterally buffed every patch since launch whilst other mediocre professions (i.e. necros & rangers) are left to languish with an unforgiving sum of bugs; the vast majority of which have not been addressed let alone acknowledged. Warriors are in an extremely favorable position ATM.

To say that 100b is the only gripe players have with warriors is simply naive. People gripe about not being able to react to thieves. I can drop a player just as fast from 900+ away. Players, literally, don’t know what hit them.

While I don’t subscribe to the philosophy that Devs, in any game, play favorites; it’s hard to argue against that position given warrior’s current state and the previous 2 months of patch notes.

Please go to the Warrior forum for a while. Warriors have a MASSIVE amount of problems and need buffs across the board. You’re just only aware of a couple of skills, all of them DPS/spike/glass cannon related. The class’ problem is with build viability. Please just forget about the kitten rifle and greatsword for just five minutes and look at all of our secondary skills and traits. Most you’ve probably never even heard of before, and for a good reason.

Warriors have NOT been “unilaterally buffed every patch.” In fact they’ve only been patched ONCE. And that was making tremor able to be used while moving. They’re not touching the class because they consider it to be where it should be in terms of power. It’s the other classes that are out of whack, as far as ANet is concerned.

Plague.5329:

Please go to the Warrior forum for a while. Warriors have a MASSIVE amount of problems and need buffs across the board.

No, they don’t. Warrior is one of the most finished classes, argueably the most finished one.

Plague.5329:

The class’ problem is with build viability.

No, it doesn’t. Warrior is also one of the most flexible classes. Flexibility isn’t having 10 options to omgwtfbbq an opponent down in 2 seconds flat though and that seems to be what most of the whiners struggle with.

Just saying “nuh uh!” isn’t proving anything. How many banner builds do you see in higher tier play? How many signet builds? Stance builds? Anything that isn’t healing shouts with soldier runes? How about trait lines? Those sure are fleshed out, huh? 10% damage to this, 5% damage to that. Damage reduction while above 90% health? What? How about that discipline attribute line? 0.1% burst damage per point huh? That sounds great.

ALL professions have a large number of minor or major problems right now. Warrior may be the “most complete,” but like everyone else, it’s far from done.

Let me clarify it to you.

Thief comes hits me from stealth for 5k in one hit and stealth again.

Problem, you whine about 100b. 100b Is a multi hit skill, in other words if it dealt you 8k now cause some hits crit and you didn’t evade any, chances are the next one will hit you under 2k because evaded most of it or it didn’t crit. A warrior who cones at you this way either goes into frenzy which makes him death meat or charges with bull rush bolas whatever, in the end you can still evade most of the damage. Warriors got cool downs in their weapons meaning you won’t see another instant HB and he can’t move while doing it. Thief’s back stab hits you once hits you hard and can be done enough to down anyone.

Same number of skill:

With NO, 0, Ningún cool down.

Now here comes the next. Thiefs can close combat anything in seconds due to their ability to shadow step around, in other words the fight is always on their terms. A 100b warrior cannot do this, even most of our get close skills don’t work lol.

A hammer warrior can CC you a lot. Stability and he is F. Or dodge his first CC which by the way is stupidly easy to predict if your brain functions property which I’m certain it does.

Now in long range, I go with my warrior and I got 1 skill in each of my ranged weapons that deals any damage, the rest is crap. I go with my thief. His short bow auto attacks in a back stab build hit like a truck and they bounce between targets. See some enemies downed shoot em they will die all at once so no rally crap. Use your AoE and you will see some stupid numbers and enemies dying everywhere.

Axe warriors don’t kitten anyone, after Beta nerfed them to the ground they are somewhere between useless and lol I am just trying to be cool. The highest eviscerate I done was 5.2k with a crit against a glass cannon. I was heavily spec into damage and only saw it happen once, normally eviscerate is lucky if it hits pass the 2k mark. Yet I got a cool down and need full adrenaline to do it. While thief only needs to pop and kill.

Hope this clarifies why people puts so much hate on Thiefs and not on other classes.

Lyonell.1753:

Let me clarify it to you.

Thief comes hits me from stealth for 5k in one hit and stealth again.

Problem, you whine about 100b. 100b Is a multi hit skill, in other words if it dealt you 8k now cause some hits crit and you didn’t evade any, chances are the next one will hit you under 2k because evaded most of it or it didn’t crit. A warrior who cones at you this way either goes into frenzy which makes him death meat or charges with bull rush bolas whatever, in the end you can still evade most of the damage. Warriors got cool downs in their weapons meaning you won’t see another instant HB and he can’t move while doing it. Thief’s back stab hits you once hits you hard and can be done enough to down anyone.

Same number of skill:

With NO, 0, Ningún cool down.

Now here comes the next. Thiefs can close combat anything in seconds due to their ability to shadow step around, in other words the fight is always on their terms. A 100b warrior cannot do this, even most of our get close skills don’t work lol.

A hammer warrior can CC you a lot. Stability and he is F. Or dodge his first CC which by the way is stupidly easy to predict if your brain functions property which I’m certain it does.

Now in long range, I go with my warrior and I got 1 skill in each of my ranged weapons that deals any damage, the rest is crap. I go with my thief. His short bow auto attacks in a back stab build hit like a truck and they bounce between targets. See some enemies downed shoot em they will die all at once so no rally crap. Use your AoE and you will see some stupid numbers and enemies dying everywhere.

Axe warriors don’t kitten anyone, after Beta nerfed them to the ground they are somewhere between useless and lol I am just trying to be cool. The highest eviscerate I done was 5.2k with a crit against a glass cannon. I was heavily spec into damage and only saw it happen once, normally eviscerate is lucky if it hits pass the 2k mark. Yet I got a cool down and need full adrenaline to do it. While thief only needs to pop and kill.

Hope this clarifies why people puts so much hate on Thiefs and not on other classes.

Its hard to take an argument seriously when the first sentence shows a severe misunderstanding of the class’ mechanics.

rickshaw.5279:

Whether it’s a warrior stunning > 100b, a guardian CC’ing you to death, a mesmer shatter nuking, a D/D ele putting the kaibash on you ever having control of your character or an Engi KD>root trolling you into oblivion… it’s the same difference.

“It’s a matter of skill. It takes no skill to play a thief.”

Last I checked thieves have the same number of ability slots as everyone else. And last time I played my warrior and guardian it took the same amount of key strokes to down my opponents. The only difference being my Guardian takes 7 seconds to kill someone as they’re forced to watch helplessly as I smash them to bits and my Axe/Axe warrior obliterates opponents so fast that sometimes I confuse even myself as to what’s going on.

You’re on a level of self delusion I simply cannot fathom.

To not be able to understand where a nerf comes from is a level of self delusion that I simply cannot fathom.

EVERY person can roll another class, we all get to see these things. People roll thieves when they see them in action, and it blows a persons mind how easy the class is to play. If I where to rate it against play experience, I would say that it is the most faceroll easy character I’ve played since……Duke Nukem. It is the most mindlessly easy class to succeed on that I’ve ever experienced in any MMO, ever, and I’ve been around since the very beginning.

It’s not that thieves don’t have other ability keys or buttons, it’s that they don’t need to use them, and frankly can’t use them with the backstab build because either your opponent is dead or you are long before there is any consideration for the other buttons on your bar. Even 100b warrior takes more skill to land the same amount of damage as a thief backstab, and that’s saying alot.

You aren’t entirely wrong, though. Developers stated that they are “looking at burst damage”, and while only a fool would think that thief isn’t on that list, it realistically includes others, too. I’d look for the axe adrenaline attack and perhaps even 100b(though a person is a kitten if they actually eat a full 100b, even if they do get stunned/immobilized before it) to see a reduction.

rickshaw.5279:

. I called out how powerful D/D could be long before D/D ele started getting popular. You can check my posting history on that. It’s amazing more people haven’t caught onto this.

Could someone please explain this part to me? I don’t understand what’s so OP about d/d ele atm, unless you’re talking about bunker builds, in which case you’d just want a staff?
Of course I don’t d/d much and it’s been buffed recently, so I maybe I just didn’t notice…
P.S. please do get started on it
As for thief gripes, its mostly just about backstab and rendering atm.

rickshaw.5279:

snip.

If you ask me, the real problem is the fact that as long as D/D Burst backstab sins exist, no class other then mesmers/guardians/warriors can run the beserker’s amulet. The backstab build does so much damage over such a little amount of time. ~17k dmg in what, 1 second? That you are literally forced to wear a soldiers amulet as half of the classes which severely limits the amount of viable builds, and that’s already a huge problem with this game. Fact of the matter is Burst dmg is to high across the board for ALL MELEE. Its stupid that in PvE a Knight’s HB warrior does more DoT then my Beserker’s D/D ele. Or that my Soldier’s Thief Can hit 2k Auto attacks with his Sword mainhand. You ever stuck Soldiers on a Necro/Ranger? Your lucky if u hit 700’s with your autos.

Honestly, the problem isn’t thieves like you say. Imo its more about the unbalance of starting stats between the classes.

Daays.4317:

Hopefully remove the teleport and instead allow the mug trait to steal gems from the player.

This is by far the best idea i’ve read on this forum since Beta. Thanks.

Plague.5329:

Just saying “nuh uh!” isn’t proving anything.

I completely agree. Which is why I find the following hilarious:

Plague.5329:

Warriors have NOT been “unilaterally buffed every patch.”

1.) If you’re going to quote… then quote correctly. There’s supposed to be an “almost” in there somewhere.

2.) Feel free to find the last major nerf that Warriors have had. Don’t worry… I’ll wait.

3.) Which ties into this:

Please just forget about the kitten rifle and greatsword…

First it was, I’m paraphrasing here, “Gawd… I wish people would stop complaining about greatsword” and has now evolved into greatsword AND rifle after I just illustrated how fargin’ insane it is. But let’s not stop there…

Plague

10% damage to this, 5% damage to that. Damage reduction while above 90% health? What?

You just described traits in every class across the board. Poor poor warriors have it sooooo rough. No, really. I sympathize. You want a signet build? I gave you one. You want a weapon other than GS and Rifle? Axe, awesome. Axe offhand is ridiculously OP. Shield, awesome. Hammer, awesome. Warhorn, clutch. Sword, awesome.

In fact the only weapon that is “meh” would be Mace. You can feel free to rebut with, “Gawd… would you people stop complaining about GS, Rifle, Axe, Shield, Hammer, Warhorn and Sword please! WARRIORS HAVE SERIOUS PROBLEMS FOR REALS N WE NEEEDS TEH BUFFAGES!!!!11!!”

YOUR problem is the same problem that other warriors in the warrior sub forum have—Which, by the way, is absolutely hysterical to read—you want your cake and eat it too. Bunker Guardians, Mesmers and Ele’s are just over the top. Warriors want that, they’re not gonna get it. Why aren’t they gonna get it? Because mark my words that bunker crap is going to get addressed. In fact, the devs have stated that they’re looking into it. Once that’s taken care of bunker warriors will be more “viable”.

They’re perfectly viable as is. In fact there are videos posted in the Warrior forum which get drowned out by all the whining. Videos showing skilled warriors doing exemplary at both DPS and bunkering buuuuut acknowledging those threads, players and videos would mean that some warriors would, you know… have to learn to play. And we don’t want that now do we?

No, no. Much better to just whine and complain about traits that are identical to traits every other class has or moan that “our bunkers” aren’t as good as those bunkers over there that are actively being watched by the devs.

Yes, it’s much easier to do that.

By the way, next time you want to complain about Warrior traits, which are freaking AWESOME, please feel free to roll a Necro. Get that bad boy up to 80, play some sPvP, then feel free to come on back and lemme know how that worked out for ya.

Thrym.9436:

To not be able to understand where a nerf comes from is a level of self delusion that I simply cannot fathom.

This thread has nothing to do with “nerfs” or “buffs” for that matter; I’m neither questioning nor criticizing either case. In fact I have no idea what “nerf” you’re even eluding to. So… with that in mind… actually read the OP, understand it, then feel free to rethink your post.

You’re so far in left field I’m actually embarrassed for you.

Hopefully remove the teleport and instead allow the mug trait to steal gems from the player.

Heh, I know you’re being sarcastic but if ANet were ever so stupid as to do something like this they could kiss the gem store goodbye along with any cash they’re bringing in from it. Who in their right mind would drop RL money just to have a keyboard slammer class capable of taking it away from you. It’d be like someone playing eddie gordo stealing quarters from your pocket at the arcade everytime he managed to hit you while randomly button mashing.

Rickshaw

You want a signet build? I gave you one.

Signet build is crap. It fails at being even remotely viable in competitive play.

Shield, awesome.

Meh. Good situationally as a weapon to swap to for a second.

Warhorn, clutch. Sword, awesome.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA omg you must be joking or trolling. Or both. There’s no way you said these two were awesome in regards to competitive tourney play. Shenanigans.

Braxxus.2904:

Signet build is crap.

Works perfectly well for me. I’m guessing the error on your part exists between the keyboard and chair.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA omg you must be joking or trolling. Or both. There’s no way you said these two were awesome in regards to competitive tourney play. Shenanigans.

Sword has solid CC as well as leap. In conjunction with hammer it’s phenomenal. Horn? Group wide CC removal as well as group wide vigor? Someone clearly doesn’t skirmish much.

Break out of your box people. There’s more to the meta than what you’re comfortable with. I genuinely feel sorry for the teams that some of these forum goers are on.

The title of this thread is indeed appropriate.

rickshaw.5279:

Thrym.9436:

To not be able to understand where a nerf comes from is a level of self delusion that I simply cannot fathom.

This thread has nothing to do with “nerfs” or “buffs” for that matter; I’m neither questioning nor criticizing either case. In fact I have no idea what “nerf” you’re even eluding to. So… with that in mind… actually read the OP, understand it, then feel free to rethink your post.

You’re so far in left field I’m actually embarrassed for you.

Don’t be too embarassed for me, I probably misinterpreted your purpose based upon the whining tone and twisted misinformation contained therein. I’m ok with being wrong in those circumstances.

The rest of the thread contents……….yeah. There is plenty to talk about when it comes to warriors, and nearly none of it is here.