Guild Wars 2

Learn the game!

How do you expect to entertain an audience when half the time you’re stuttering, taking your statements back, and you don’t even understand what the skills in the game do…

Listening to a monotonic duo for 10-15 minutes is boring as kitten.

Real.

Recruit me as a caster, so I can call things OP/UP and insult people in a funny fashion.

But seriously, I stopped watching alot of them ages ago when someone said “Plague form does a ton of DoT damage”

right, because i bet you know so much about the game. i got an idea, why dont you start your own casting show on twitch?

ahuba.6430:

right, because i bet you know so much about the game. i got an idea, why dont you start your own casting show on twitch?

I know alot more about the game than alot of people. However, I have no reason or care to start a casting show. This game isn’t an esport anyway. I’d gladly commentate/analyze, however, again: Not an esport.

I’m not sure if today’s thread has anything to do with me, but I’m here so why not type a response.

We had a really good thread going after the MMORPG tournament talking about casters, and while some of my friends with thinner skin might take issue with the tone of these threads, I think there is merit in some of the responses.

I can be biased. It’s mostly because I’ve played with a lot of the NA guys over the past 8 months…some of them extensively. They’re friends at this point, so it becomes hard to seperate “PvP Grouch” with “Shoutcasting Grouch”. I do see the validity in the complaint. I’m working on it!

It’s been great to see people stepping up to cast tourneys. It’s not easy to cast GW2 and without casters, us players wouldn’t have the support we need to showcase our matches. I am very appreciative to the work GW2 casters have put in. In hopes of improving the experience for viewers, I have some suggestions for casters.

1. Learn to pronounce the players names correctly. It builds player identity for those who aren’t familiar and it doesn’t make the casters look like they’re out of the loop.

2. Learn skill names so big plays can be called. Focus on the plays being made and less of “red team fight for keep vs blue team”. Please don’t John Madden us.

3. Refrain from making judgments. There’s no need for it. Generally casters aren’t going to have as much mechanical and strategic expertise as the players. It makes a caster look incompetent when they make a judgement and they are incorrect. I’ve seen countless examples of casters saying a player made a mistake when in fact it was a brilliant play. A lot of very experienced professional starcraft casters focus on laying out strategic options to the viewers and building anticipation rather than making judgments about decisions the player made.

4. Stop reviewing builds pre match. Reviewing player builds comprises competitive value for the players and it takes too much time. There is a definite advantage to the team who doesn’t get their builds reviewed first. It’s easy to stream snipe and counter build whilst not giving the first team reviewed enough time to counter the counter. Learning from guides and tutorials maintains a much higher learning value to new players than just reviewing a specific comp oriented build that often times is meant to specifically counter the opposing teams comp. You don’t see casters requesting starcraft players to give their build orders pre game for a reason. If nothing else, they should have a 3rd person that isn’t casting review the builds and give a general summary to the casters so they can comment in game. Not reviewing builds pregame also opens up the opportunity to cover them in a post game analysis.

5. Do a post game analysis during the down time after matches. This is a great time to review player builds of the previous game.

6. NEVER apologize when casting. It reinforces that a mistake was made and it makes the caster look incapable.

7. Do not predict matches or call GG before the end. It lowers viewer interest if the game has already been called. Even if its a wipe, there are still many interesting events that can be called.

These suggestions are for all GW2 casters and not directed towards any particular individual(s).

Thanks again and good luck casters!

Batmang.5421:

3. Stop reviewing builds pre match. IMO reviewing player builds comprises competitive value for the players and it takes too much time. That’s what guides and tutorials are for. It could also open up an opportunity for post game analysis. You don’t see casters requesting starcraft players to give their build orders pre game for a reason. If nothing else, they should have a 3rd person that isn’t casting review the builds and give a general summary to the casters so they can comment in game.

Please.

So many haters on these forums jeez chill out take some deep breathes. And remember its just a game

Thanks for the great feedback guys. I’ve been trying extremely hard to work on my game knowledge. I try and play 4-8 hours a day, and I have been rotating classes every couple of days, just to help me learn their skills/traits/playstyle. I believe that to cast this game competitively, I think you also need to be able to play this game semi-competitively. I am working extremely hard to get to that level.

Today was the first real tournament that I have been able to cast, and I am working very kitten improving, so I can help to bring quality content to this game.

Again, I really do appreciate the feedback, and I want you to know that I will try to apply any constructive criticism.

Acandis.3250:

Batmang.5421:

3. Stop reviewing builds pre match. IMO reviewing player builds comprises competitive value for the players and it takes too much time. That’s what guides and tutorials are for. It could also open up an opportunity for post game analysis. You don’t see casters requesting starcraft players to give their build orders pre game for a reason. If nothing else, they should have a 3rd person that isn’t casting review the builds and give a general summary to the casters so they can comment in game.

Please.

Shawnbuell.8407:

Thanks for the great feedback guys. I’ve been trying extremely hard to work on my game knowledge. I try and play 4-8 hours a day, and I have been rotating classes every couple of days, just to help me learn their skills/traits/playstyle. I believe that to cast this game competitively, I think you also need to be able to play this game semi-competitively. I am working extremely hard to get to that level.

Today was the first real tournament that I have been able to cast, and I am working very kitten improving, so I can help to bring quality content to this game.

Again, I really do appreciate the feedback, and I want you to know that I will try to apply any constructive criticism.

Keep it up man! Thanks for the hard work.

Solution to #4:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/Custom-Arenas-Online-Tournaments/first#post2185621

Batmang.5421:

6. NEVER apologize when casting. It reinforces that a mistake was made and it makes the caster look incapable.

I find the fact that you’re saying this to be quite sad. If a caster is good and he makes a mistake and apologizes it’s just good manners or sometimes when there are 2 of them they can joke about it a bit.

>>>>>Apologizing doesn’t make a capable and good caster look incapable.<<<<<

I’m also sure that a lot of companies have this business corporate rule for their staff to never say that they kittened up even when they did and apologizing publicly is not even an option. It’s very sad to see you promoting it here.

Also regarding the topic and my experience from watching today’s/yesterday/s SOAC tourney I felt like the map explanation videos were just self advertisement that kept being shoved up my face over and over again which was quite annoying. During the games the things that were mostly called are stomps and players going down which is quite obvious from the HP bars. Calling some of the stomps was quite funny too when it’s just one person stomping another without anyone around, and when the stomp happens the caster tried to hype it up like it was something special and not a completely obvious and inevitable outcome. No calls on wells or other abilities, mostly just players going down/how many people are fighting/rezzing/stopps and self promoting map explanation videos shoved in your face in a repeated manner multiple times.

Iceflame.5024:

Batmang.5421:

6. NEVER apologize when casting. It reinforces that a mistake was made and it makes the caster look incapable.

I find the fact that you’re saying this to be quite sad. If a caster is good and he makes a mistake and apologizes it’s just good manners or sometimes when there are 2 of them they can joke about it a bit.

>>>>>Apologizing doesn’t make a capable and good caster look incapable.<<<<<

I’m also sure that a lot of companies have this business corporate rule for their staff to never say that they kittened up even when they did and apologizing publicly is not even an option. It’s very sad to see you promoting it here.

Also regarding the topic and my experience from watching today’s/yesterday/s SOAC tourney I felt like the map explanation videos were just self advertisement that kept being shoved up my face over and over again which was quite annoying. During the games the things that were mostly called are stomps and players going down which is quite obvious from the HP bars. Calling some of the stomps was quite funny too when it’s just one person stomping another without anyone around, and when the stomp happens the caster tried to hype it up like it was something special and not a completely obvious and inevitable outcome. No calls on wells or other abilities, mostly just players going down/how many people are fighting/rezzing/stopps and self promoting map explanation videos shoved in your face in a repeated manner multiple times.

It has nothing to do with corporate ideals. It’s simply the fact that when casting there are so many things going on, apologizing for a mistake takes away from the viewers experience as well as the casters ability to continue calling plays.

Also, for new casters, apologizing focuses their attention on the mistake rather than the action which can shake their confidence. You will rarely see a professional caster apologize for a mistake. They act like it didn’t happen and move on.

Granted, this is just my opinion. I respect that yours is different.

I originally typed up a pretty big rant but I decided to do some editing and only make a list of a few main points.

1 Shawn plays a ton of spvp and is pretty proficient at most meta builds. Almost r40 and leader of gw2 esports guild.

2 Fox has a nice voice but is completely ignorant of the game and it shows.

Overall I was slightly disappointed with the casting today because I had heard Fox was being schooled in gw2 and I knew Shawn would be there to correct any inaccuracies and talk the meta. Fox failed big time though and frequently made stupid/wrong comments and then Shawn didn’t really seem to speak up that much or correct him which was disappointing but understandable. You don’t want to call out your partner/(maybe boss/senior caster?) over and over.

I could give a big list of errors or things I heard that were stupid/wrong but the basic point is that I want commentary (lead commentary/main commentator) from a person who actually plays the game and can give opinions on the state of the game or a build. I don’t want a commentator telling me the ele is running a staff for real, and then being corrected and telling me he is probably running scepter. I already saw the ele was 0,10,0,30,30 aura share which means I already know he is running D/D. That’s probably the most common build in the NA meta and frankly scepter has no auras so how someone would get confused eludes me.

Batmang.5421:

It has nothing to do with corporate ideals. It’s simply the fact that when casting there are so many things going on, apologizing for a mistake takes away from the viewers experience as well as the casters ability to continue calling plays.

If we talk about this game specifically, then you are indeed correct. I saw that point as general advice for casting and if it was then my point stands strong.

Batmang.5421:

Iceflame.5024:

Batmang.5421:

6. NEVER apologize when casting. It reinforces that a mistake was made and it makes the caster look incapable.

I find the fact that you’re saying this to be quite sad. If a caster is good and he makes a mistake and apologizes it’s just good manners or sometimes when there are 2 of them they can joke about it a bit.

>>>>>Apologizing doesn’t make a capable and good caster look incapable.<<<<<

I’m also sure that a lot of companies have this business corporate rule for their staff to never say that they kittened up even when they did and apologizing publicly is not even an option. It’s very sad to see you promoting it here.

Also regarding the topic and my experience from watching today’s/yesterday/s SOAC tourney I felt like the map explanation videos were just self advertisement that kept being shoved up my face over and over again which was quite annoying. During the games the things that were mostly called are stomps and players going down which is quite obvious from the HP bars. Calling some of the stomps was quite funny too when it’s just one person stomping another without anyone around, and when the stomp happens the caster tried to hype it up like it was something special and not a completely obvious and inevitable outcome. No calls on wells or other abilities, mostly just players going down/how many people are fighting/rezzing/stopps and self promoting map explanation videos shoved in your face in a repeated manner multiple times.

It has nothing to do with corporate ideals. It’s simply the fact that when casting there are so many things going on, apologizing for a mistake takes away from the viewers experience as well as the casters ability to continue calling plays.

Also, for new casters, apologizing focuses their attention on the mistake rather than the action which can shake their confidence. You will rarely see a professional caster apologize for a mistake. They act like it didn’t happen and move on.

Granted, this is just my opinion. I respect that yours is different.

This isn’t entirely true, but to a certain extent its a good rule of thumb. In more developed caster communities, like those found in SC2, DotA2, or LoL, commentators will make predictions about how the matches will play out. If they’re incorrect, they’ll explain what factors they didn’t consider which led to the surprising outcome.

Examples: We’re seeing a reactor with port come up and he’s been playing pretty aggressively all game, given the timing, we’re probably going to see banshees while he secures his expo. Oh, no, we’re seeing quick ravens! It seems that xyz didn’t want to harrass with that port, he wanted to force a fight at his opponent’s nat and he needed energy for PDDs.

The focus isn’t on the ‘error’ so to speak, but rather on the idea that the play being watched is surprising. When actual errors are made (ie: Archer in chat saying that a res was due to ranger ult vs. it being due to IoL), keeping the focus on dynamic elements of the game becomes rather difficult.

Archer Henchman.2534:

Batmang.5421:

Iceflame.5024:

Batmang.5421:

6. NEVER apologize when casting. It reinforces that a mistake was made and it makes the caster look incapable.

I find the fact that you’re saying this to be quite sad. If a caster is good and he makes a mistake and apologizes it’s just good manners or sometimes when there are 2 of them they can joke about it a bit.

>>>>>Apologizing doesn’t make a capable and good caster look incapable.<<<<<

I’m also sure that a lot of companies have this business corporate rule for their staff to never say that they kittened up even when they did and apologizing publicly is not even an option. It’s very sad to see you promoting it here.

Also regarding the topic and my experience from watching today’s/yesterday/s SOAC tourney I felt like the map explanation videos were just self advertisement that kept being shoved up my face over and over again which was quite annoying. During the games the things that were mostly called are stomps and players going down which is quite obvious from the HP bars. Calling some of the stomps was quite funny too when it’s just one person stomping another without anyone around, and when the stomp happens the caster tried to hype it up like it was something special and not a completely obvious and inevitable outcome. No calls on wells or other abilities, mostly just players going down/how many people are fighting/rezzing/stopps and self promoting map explanation videos shoved in your face in a repeated manner multiple times.

It has nothing to do with corporate ideals. It’s simply the fact that when casting there are so many things going on, apologizing for a mistake takes away from the viewers experience as well as the casters ability to continue calling plays.

Also, for new casters, apologizing focuses their attention on the mistake rather than the action which can shake their confidence. You will rarely see a professional caster apologize for a mistake. They act like it didn’t happen and move on.

Granted, this is just my opinion. I respect that yours is different.

This isn’t entirely true, but to a certain extent its a good rule of thumb. In more developed caster communities, like those found in SC2, DotA2, or LoL, commentators will make predictions about how the matches will play out. If they’re incorrect, they’ll explain what factors they didn’t consider which led to the surprising outcome.

Examples: We’re seeing a reactor with port come up and he’s been playing pretty aggressively all game, given the timing, we’re probably going to see banshees while he secures his expo. Oh, no, we’re seeing quick ravens! It seems that xyz didn’t want to harrass with that port, he wanted to force a fight at his opponent’s nat and he needed energy for PDDs.

The focus isn’t on the ‘error’ so to speak, but rather on the idea that the play being watched is surprising. When actual errors are made (ie: Archer in chat saying that a res was due to ranger ult vs. it being due to IoL), keeping the focus on dynamic elements of the game becomes rather difficult.

I was more referring to when a caster misses something or bobbles their words and then apologizes for it as opposed to them predicting something incorrectly.

Acandis.3250:

Batmang.5421:

3. Stop reviewing builds pre match. IMO reviewing player builds comprises competitive value for the players and it takes too much time. That’s what guides and tutorials are for. It could also open up an opportunity for post game analysis. You don’t see casters requesting starcraft players to give their build orders pre game for a reason. If nothing else, they should have a 3rd person that isn’t casting review the builds and give a general summary to the casters so they can comment in game.

Please.

As a viewer seeing the builds used in tournament games is one of the most interesting parts of the game. I believe that due to caster inexperience often the review of the builds does take a long time. With experience, builds could be reviewed very quickly i.e. ~15 seconds per player or a total of ~3min. If casters weren’t having to do all sorts of admin for these tournies it would also be quicker.

The biggest thing missing from guides/tutorials etc. is how different builds fit into the team as a whole. Seeing 5 builds together as a team is much different than seeing a build in isolation, and I think build review during tournies accomplishes something that no guide can.

I love going back and watching VODs of previously casted games to review the builds and then watch their impact on the game. In this scenario if the caster does nothing but open each build, scroll over runes, weapons and amulet then quickly flash the trait tab it would still be useful in a VOD scenario b/c you can pause and study it if you want. It could be accomplished in <5 seconds per player and if casters simply want to say what they think the general role of the player is on the team they’ll be able to say that without explaining every detail. “This is a high physical damage roamer” “this is a condition teamfight build” “this is a backpoint defense build” etc.

I just really hope that builds don’t get totally cut from tournament casting because that is a huge part of the strategy for the game and super interesting for many viewers