Guild Wars 2

going to try to keep this short. I think the balance patches should be entirely separate. Even though Anet does split some skill effectiveness between Spvp and PvE in general when they move traits and redefine builds they do this across the board. While Spvp get the brunt of these changes PvE basically get nerfed or buffed (on a class by class basis) for no apparent reason.

I think they should balance the 2 independent of each other. Separate teams separate patches.

i could understand pvp and wvw

but pve? how does balance matter in pve?

Romek.4201:

i could understand pvp and wvw

but pve? how does balance matter in pve?

So basically your saying every time Anet randomly changes builds for PvE with no warning or reasoning it is fine. Despite the vast majority of the pop are PvE players who have complained about this repeatedly for a year.

Some players build their gear around there build. In Spvp this is a light investment but in PvE this is months and hundreds of gold in many cases. When balance changes are instituted that have nothing to do with PvE and builds become obsolete along with their gear it is a much heavier burden for the PvE player than any other.

PvE balancing generally has to do with usefulness to the party in respect to DPS. PvE balancing rarely happens in PvE and meta changes in PvE are general spawned by meta changes in Spvp.

but i guess you are in wrong forum for this^^

At no point have I gotten the impression that PvE balance is even an afterthought.

I mean there’s no benchmark for PvE performance anyhow. No DPS meter, no test-fight, nothing. Warriors and Guardians have been the “go to” classes for PvE ever since launch and nothing has changed about that and it doesn’t seem like anything ever will.

Conditions are mechanically broken in PvE and that too was never a concern.

PvE is simply irrelevant to any balance debate in this game.

That leaves sPvP and WvW, both of which are fundamentally PvP content. So I see no reason why both should follow different rule-sets. If something is balanced for PvP it should apply to both WvW and sPvP.

Having different “Revealed” timers for example is just annoying.

TheGuy.3568:

Romek.4201:

i could understand pvp and wvw

but pve? how does balance matter in pve?

So basically your saying every time Anet randomly changes builds for PvE with no warning or reasoning it is fine. Despite the vast majority of the pop are PvE players who have complained about this repeatedly for a year.

Some players build their gear around there build. In Spvp this is a light investment but in PvE this is months and hundreds of gold in many cases. When balance changes are instituted that have nothing to do with PvE and builds become obsolete along with their gear it is a much heavier burden for the PvE player than any other.

PvE balancing generally has to do with usefulness to the party in respect to DPS. PvE balancing rarely happens in PvE and meta changes in PvE are general spawned by meta changes in Spvp.

Isn’t the “meta” for PvE just full zerks? Buffs and nerfs won’t change that frankly. Condi specs have no place in PvE and dungeons anyway due to plaguing issues since launch. Nowadays, you’re shunned and laughed at if you even try and run something other than kitten dps, it’s sad really and if anything reflects a deeper issue with dungeon design. Until they change that and people are actually encouraged to gear out from zerkers, you don’t have an argument here. I know not everyone runs full zerks, but you’re being overly dramatic if each balance patch means having to replace a full set of gear, that frankly doesn’t happen.

If someone’s spec was nerfed in WvW and had to rebuy gear for that, you have an argument there, but not PvE. Lastly, a lot of nerfs and changes to skills are now only in effect in sPvP and have no relations to PvE or WvW anyway (outside of traits getting moved around).

I completely agree. I’ve always said this on every game I’ve gone to that PvE and PvP nerfs and buffs should be seperate and not effect each other. Main reason is because you always get the PvE crowd hating on the PvP crowd and it causes extreme tension and also is probably one of the reasons that buffs and nerfs happen a certain way or take longer to do because they have to keep both play styles in mind. If they seperate them then there would be no arguments, things would get done faster, and the changes would be more efficient and directed at your specific play style whether it be PvE or PvP.

The worst thing that ANet has done with GW2 is attempt to separate PvP from PvE.

ANet could have balanced the entire game around PvP encounters and PvP stats. We could have had enemies in PvE that were similar to the Heart of the Mists dueling NPCs, the Keep Lord and his entourage, and/or Svanir and the Chieftain. However, instead of legitimately dangerous enemies in PvE, we are confronted by health sponges, invulnerability mechanics, and brain-dead trash mobs. To surmount the PvE design, ANet decided to inflate PvE player stats.

Do you really need 25 stacks of might, 1 minute of fury, 3500 base power and 90%+ critical damage to kill another player in this game? No. But you do need it to burn down a typical boss in PvE. That was their mistake.

All of that said, it’s still very possible to rectify this issue, but it would take an enormous amount of work that I don’t think ANet is willing to put in. Even so, further splitting PvE and PvP will only set ANet further down the road of adding in hp-sponge bosses with boring mechanics along with every content update. One of the worst things that ANet could do for GW2 would be to completely divide PvP from PvE.

Lumines.3916:

TheGuy.3568:

Romek.4201:

i could understand pvp and wvw

but pve? how does balance matter in pve?

So basically your saying every time Anet randomly changes builds for PvE with no warning or reasoning it is fine. Despite the vast majority of the pop are PvE players who have complained about this repeatedly for a year.

Some players build their gear around there build. In Spvp this is a light investment but in PvE this is months and hundreds of gold in many cases. When balance changes are instituted that have nothing to do with PvE and builds become obsolete along with their gear it is a much heavier burden for the PvE player than any other.

PvE balancing generally has to do with usefulness to the party in respect to DPS. PvE balancing rarely happens in PvE and meta changes in PvE are general spawned by meta changes in Spvp.

Isn’t the “meta” for PvE just full zerks? Buffs and nerfs won’t change that frankly. Condi specs have no place in PvE and dungeons anyway due to plaguing issues since launch. Nowadays, you’re shunned and laughed at if you even try and run something other than kitten dps, it’s sad really and if anything reflects a deeper issue with dungeon design. Until they change that and people are actually encouraged to gear out from zerkers, you don’t have an argument here. I know not everyone runs full zerks, but you’re being overly dramatic if each balance patch means having to replace a full set of gear, that frankly doesn’t happen.

If someone’s spec was nerfed in WvW and had to rebuy gear for that, you have an argument there, but not PvE. Lastly, a lot of nerfs and changes to skills are now only in effect in sPvP and have no relations to PvE or WvW anyway (outside of traits getting moved around).

That holds the assumption that most players play PvE in full zerker. That the runes they buy and they way they perfectly balance their stats simply do not matter. If that were the case you could say despite the fact you like a build and the way it played then it is fine if we nerf it or change it simply because we needed tot balance something in Spvp. Your basically saying the largest pop in the game fundamentally has no right to separate balance. Now as an spvp player you can say this comfortably but what your really saying is despite the fact that it won;t effect you (balance patches will still be there for Spvp) the concern of the PvE players is not a concern at all. The build you run the gear none of this matters. Just run zerker and what ever build is the current in? It isn’t about drama but fairness.

Let me pose a question to you. If they nerfed a build in Spvp for the sake of PvE would you accept it?

Last but not least

“Lastly, a lot of nerfs and changes to skills are now only in effect in sPvP and have no relations to PvE or WvW anyway (outside of traits getting moved around). "

Really? For example was the continual nerf to S/D thief in PvE was solely due to PvE balancing and not Spvp? Moving traits is changing builds it really is that simple.

Are you really saying PvE players should have no say in the balance of their part of the game?

Romek.4201:

but i guess you are in wrong forum for this^^

Why? Widespread trait, skills, and class change are pretty much decided in this forum and in this forum alone.

Balance team should balance for sPvP to begin with. WvW was never supposed to be fully balanced and is better as a game of server logistics anyways.

Without saying something elitist like “PvE is to easy to matter” The fact still remains that PvE can always be balanced on the side of mobs… and if a skill was so horribly UP in PvE they could split a skill for PvE and keep the balance proper.