Guild Wars 2

EDIT: Yes, staff got good QoL improvements! Now onto focus and dragon’s tooth! DONT forget arcana VIII blasting staff which cuts too much into our build!

More than 8 months since release, Anet, yet the state of staff ele keeps deteriorating. Every nerf that ele have received have been aimed at D/D, which is arguably a very strong choice [still] but it has effectively weakened an already borderline bad staff.

Do not mistake the staff as a support weapon, due to us lacking the option to switch weapon mid-fight, we have to do and adapt to each situation as it appears, therefore 4 attunements have to fill in the role of 2 weapons each best at each scenario. Im not saying staff is useless, just that it is lackluster, underwhelming, easily replaced and could use some QoL improvements and some buffs.

Staff ele should be in a constant arms race vs gap closers, capable of hitting hard and reliably on foes at range, while trying to keep its distance from everything, failure to do so would mean a swift death. I dont mind blowing up in close combat, Im used to it from other games, all Im saying is, give us an equal chance to kill stuff at range as they have to finish us off up close. Right now seeing a staff ele means only 1 of two things; it is either a bunker, CC punching bag (aka, no damage, and in a 5v5 tournament where most of the time you are alone or in pairs, there is no denying that this scenario has to be heavily considered) which makes you dead weight to your team, or you are a zerker/valkyrie which blows with the press of D/D thief #5>#2>#2, [easy kill] unable to hit him even once because every. single. ability. is. aoe. and . near. impossible. to. hit. at. range.

Before you go; “but ele is impossible to catch, have you seen the D/D?!” Let me redicrect you to the beginning of this thread; STAFF. Every single nerf directed at this class has only indirectly nerfed eles (the nerfs to water healing, boon durations, arcana nerfs, etc) while getting absolutely nothing in return for the underdog staff. Im willing to lose some of my wasted utility to gain some killing potential if possible, but that would mean staff is in a “good state” and that is not the case.

But enough bashing, now to the suggestion, easy fixes;
Fire;

1. fire #1 please, reduce the 1 second casting time, ONE, plus travel time is almost 1 3/4 , thats nearly 2 second to hit an ability, winding time is horrible, oh, and it can be sidestepped.
2. fire #4 ; please make it go the full 1200 range, 900 plus casting means that you can almost walk next to the person and be on top of him in no time (tested it with a mate) Like I said, we should be in a constant arms race to keep our distance, not a self stun that leave us in no better situation than before)
3. fire #2 Why the skill has an animation time, PLUS activation time of 3/4 till first tick is beyond me, you can literally (not exaggerating here) walk out of it, even with the increased staff radius on arcana. Please make it like necro’s marks. No negotiations on this one.
   Fire should be the element of damage, right now it does not reflect this.

Water;

1. water #1; can we please increase the splash radius so that it can….actually hit a mate who isnt right on the very top superimposing axis of the enemy?
2. water #5 same treatment as guardian’s staff #5, self root has to go away, period.

Air; air is supposed to be the 1v1 element….

1. air#1 needs to be a little bit faster (a lot) , make it so that the first hit REALLY hard, 3 bounces and each consecutive hit is 50% weaker (meaning the last hit hits for 12.5% of the original damage)
2. air #3 please make it actually connect something that isnt an Af(. Away from Keyword is a censored word?!)k player or a gollem
3. air #5 targets inside receive either fumble or a DoT.

Earth;

1. earth #2 mixed feeling here, if I decrease the winding up time then I cant use the blast finisher, on the other side, right now even critters can walk out of it. This is the moment where I mean that Im willing to give away some support for killing potential.
2. earth #4 ; only 2 seconds cripple? two? cmon.

Overall we need to distribute some power to the other elements, right now fire has a lot of potential but, once out of fire you are pretty much sitting ducks, the decisions we should be taking are; “ok, a thief is coming at me, I better earth into air once he pops out of stealth, finish with a fire if he tries to run, or wear him down if he stays with water” NOT " crap, im out of fire and i cant cast AoE on top of myself, GOTTA RUN UNTIL FIRE IS UP! here, let me blow ALL CDs in the hopes i can stale long enough to survive until fire is up"

Please mind you, this is sPvP and tPvP.

edit; another suggestion is; spread out damage. Example, lets say X skill hits 1000 damage to a single person, but if say, 2 people are there, then it hits 750 each, and 3 people would be 600 each.

Fortus.6175:

But enough bashing, now to the suggestion, easy fixes;

there is no such thing as an Easy Fix when you are talking about ArenaNet.

Staff Water 1 should be ground target-able that way you might be able to aim at allies
Earth 2 should be able to be activated early that way you can choose between a weaker bleed and an instant blast finisher or the other way around.
Earth 4 should knockdown since 1 of the 2 CCs on staff never lands and the cripple is not strong enough.

It’s definitely not a joke, it’s very close to being viable.

It’s CC and group support is definitely greater than scepter or dagger weapon sets. The only thing it lacks is good consistent damage, which can be easily helped by just adding some damage to some of the abilities that currently don’t do any damage and maybe messing with some cast times.

I think arena net should stick with their method of slow and steady balancing because buffing staff too much could get insane.

Still waiting for a ranged weapon that’s more 1v1 oriented.

…And is actually EFFECTIVE at range, unlike the scepter.

Something people fail to recognize is; because they face mostly D/D they think the class overall is fine [OP], but the fact that we cant change weapons midfight renders this argument null. Going staff requieres investement into Arcaba 20 for the VII staff radius increase, which is mandatory. Couple with the fact that they cant do any reliable damage and lack the option to go from “group support” to “ooouh, im on my own now?!”. The entire class seems to be agaisnt staff atm, it is fun, yes, but defintiely underwhelming.

Chaosky.5276:

Still waiting for a ranged weapon that’s more 1v1 oriented.

…And is actually EFFECTIVE at range, unlike the scepter.

Scepter is effective at range. Air #1 and #2 is probably the most reliable 900 range damage in the game.

Without any doubt, Staff ele is the most beautiful and fun to play build in the whole game.

And its so sad because its very weak compared to other weapon sets but anet keep indetectly nerfing it. Its a true fact that ele had way more viable builds on release than now. At one point I even had one different build for every map in the 3 round tournies.
Now you can only run the same mindless 0-20-0-20-30

From my pov the main issues with staff are:

Fire:

1. 2 ticks too late. Anyone can just walk out of it even if you land the skill.
2. 5 is bugged. The last 6-7 seconds of its duration never hit. We should also be able to move while casting it

Water:

1. 1 should be reworked to provide more utility. In its current state is an always unused skill no matter the situation
2. 5 again, we should be able to move while casting. In the current format, stay in the same spot vs a hgh engi and you are dead in less than 5 seconds. You receive more damage and conditions during the cast time than you can heal/cleanse. Also, the skill received a huge nerf that was intended for cantrips builds.

Air

1. 1 and 2 should have reliable damage.
2. 3 is bugged/bad designed and misses most of the time. This skill requires some dev attention imo

Earth

1. 2 should be harder to evade. Anyone can walk out of it without much problems. Even if you traited aoe size.
2. 4 is a really bad joke. Its effect in a fight is close to none

If the aoe damage in the game is nerfed, staff ele should be improved.

I dont understand why there are so many single target unblockable op skills in the game, and then you look at staff and it’s so weak…

Aoe are harder to land so they should be more rewarding. But that’s too far from reality. Even if you land the aoe anyone can walk out of it without taking any damage.

Im sure devs have stats on this, 8 or i would even say 9/10 ele players go for D/D or S/D most (if not all) of the time, and there is a reason to this; while D/D sure is refreshing twist to the mage archetype, most people (like me) are old gamers who have been taught since little by books like LoTR and older MMOs games that wizards wear staves, are weak physically and they are scary if you dont close on them, and do it fast. Right now staff ele are the laughing stock of weapons and its going to take more than;

-fixed a tooltip on Burning Retreat where it would let you try to escape the enemy and give you hopes of survival.

or

-increase damage to a whooping extra 10 power on Lava Font

to fix the profression. Please Anet, look into it, please also check the elementalist forums, we have been CRYING for well deserved buffs!

Phantaram.1265:

Chaosky.5276:

Still waiting for a ranged weapon that’s more 1v1 oriented.

…And is actually EFFECTIVE at range, unlike the scepter.

Scepter is effective at range. Air #1 and #2 is probably the most reliable 900 range damage in the game.

‘Cept eles don’t spend all their time in the Air attunement, and you still need to close in with the scepter for Might stacking, Phoenix, and the offhand dagger skills (because the focus offers pretty much zero damage).

Phantaram.1265:

It’s definitely not a joke, it’s very close to being viable.

It’s CC and group support is definitely greater than scepter or dagger weapon sets. The only thing it lacks is good consistent damage, which can be easily helped by just adding some damage to some of the abilities that currently don’t do any damage and maybe messing with some cast times.

I think arena net should stick with their method of slow and steady balancing because buffing staff too much could get insane.

Yeah that would be good enough.

1)reduce casting time of eruption
2)unsteady ground should be reworked
3)remove ground projectile from gust and add wave pattern

i play a fire glass cannon staff build in hotjoin, its a blast!
the damage is insanely high and its all AoE.
its a very squishy build though so probably not suitable for Tpvp

Liewec.2896:

i play a fire glass cannon staff build in hotjoin, its a blast!
the damage is insanely high and its all AoE.
its a very squishy build though so probably not suitable for Tpvp

I have tried, once you are singled out you drop in a sec without a chance for much retaliation…

Disagree.

I main a staff ele in s/tPvP. People that think staff eles are weak are simply using them wrong.

Staff eles provide excellent support to a team. The support comes from excellent heals, excellent CC, and good aoe damage support. On top of that, we have access to many shared boons / auras through the use of blast finishers and combo fields. When you’re running with a team (by this, I mean you have one or two other people with you), you’re a great asset.

What you shouldn’t expect to do is consistently 1v1 particular professions and builds. You’re simply not meant to if you’re using a staff. Furthermore, staying at maximum range is not you’re biggest priority (unless you’re running a GC build, but I don’t see why you should be). With all the CC and heals, you’re fairly tanky if built correctly, so if you’re opponents are choosing to go after you rather than you’re teamates, you can actually do a good job at surviving while still supporting your team, who will hopefully finish the job for you. If the focus has shifted off of you, you should still be in the fray, stacking might with your fire 2 and using either earth 2, earth dodge roll (with evasive arcana) and arcane blast. Note that 2/3s of these require you to be in the middle of everything. With 12+ stacks of might (shared with your teamates, mind you), even the tankiest of builds won’t hit like wet noodles.

Some comments on you’re changes:

Earth 2 / Fire 2 : Yes, they are easy to walk out of. Quickly in fact. Which is fine, considering that you hopefully placed them on a cap point. Which is what you should always be doing with your AoEs. Furthermore, these two sync up greatly for a might blast finisher. While I can understand the 3/4 seconds before Fire 2 even ticks may be frustrating, it’s not too terrible considering its purpose.

Earth 4: I must disagree with this one as well. Yes, running through it once provides a meager 2 seconds of cripple. Nothing to write home about. But if you place it on a point of interest, and hell, even kite back and forth on it, you’ll see your opponents moving back and forth across it too. This is why it stays on the ground for a decent amount of time. I actually love how this skill works right now.

Fire 1: OK as is, though I do think it hits quite enough at times, considering it’s your main auto-attack for damage. Still, it’s great spammable AoE damage. Being farther away should make it easier to dodge, lots of abilities are like that. As I stated above, being at maximum range will prevent you from working at peak efficiency anyways.

Fire 4: Eh, I can’t say I have a problem with the ability. On one hand, with arcane blast off CD, I can use them both for a quick 3 stacks of might. If I really need to escape, I can use this, switch to air, and use 3. I really don’t see a need to change this ability; it’s not exactly meant to be used as an escape; it’s more for the quick fire field.

Water 1 : I agree, I dislike this ability. I never use it because, like you said, it’s impossible to get meaningful heals out of it. +1 to this’n.

Water 5: While it would make it very convenient, I think this could potentially make it borderline OP. This ability is great for your team battling on a capture point, hell, the radius is even larger than the point itself. This is not meant to be a heal on the fly, that you use when you’re running away or even being focused. It’s situational. And in the right situation, it’s amazing (especially with the trait that removes conditions when you apply regeneration to allies).

Air 1: Not necessary; it’s fine how it is. To me, it sounds like you just want to be able to do more single target damage.

Air 3: This ability does miss a lot, but I find that when it does miss, I used it at the wrong time. Say, if a target was fleeing, strafing, dodging, or simply too far away. As is, this ability is great in the right situation, such as interrupting a res, a powerful move on an ally, giving yourself breathing room if an enemy is up in your grill. It shouldn’t be something you just mindless press of cooldown, or when you happen to be in air attunement.

Air 5: Why? This move is amazing as is. Throw one of these bad boys down in the middle of a capture point, and you’re entire team has an instant advantage.

What this boils down to, is that you want staff to be able to do everything the other weapon sets can do, and do it at a greater range on top of that. This is simply not how the weapon was designed. Do you really think that you should be able to do tons of damage, while still having access to chill, cripple, a mass stun, the ability to stack godly amounts of might, great AoE heals, etc. etc.? Stop trying to Rambo it up with every weapon and spec you stumble across; the very fact that they all play differently is where diversity comes from.

My advice to you is to get a good handle on the different combo fields and your blast finishers, spec with defense in mind, and stick with a couple of teamates focusing on different cap points. And don’t go chasing that thief that got away for kittens sake.

Muramasma.1570:

What this boils down to, is that you want staff to be able to do everything the other weapon sets can do, and do it at a greater range on top of that. This is simply not how the weapon was designed. Do you really think that you should be able to do tons of damage, while still having access to chill, cripple, a mass stun, the ability to stack godly amounts of might, great AoE heals, etc. etc.? Stop trying to Rambo it up with every weapon and spec you stumble across; the very fact that they all play differently is where diversity comes from.

My advice to you is to get a good handle on the different combo fields and your blast finishers, spec with defense in mind, and stick with a couple of teamates focusing on different cap points. And don’t go chasing that thief that got away for kittens sake.

Staff ele is underpowered. Almost no one runs it not because none of them know how to play, as you imply, but because it’s underpowered, which does not mean useless. Your whole post most makes a case for what it can do but does not change the fact it does not do enough.

Julius.1094:

Staff ele is underpowered. Almost no one runs it not because none of them know how to play, as you imply, but because it’s underpowered, which does not mean useless. Your whole post most makes a case for what it can do but does not change the fact it does not do enough.

Well, I’ve addressed the points the OP cited as being the reasons staff ele is UP, and I’ve explained why each point is invalid as those particular abilities are being used incorrectly and the overall playstyle he has employed is contradictory to what the staff ele excels at. When played correctly, the staff ele is far from UP.

Muramasma.1570:

Disagree.

I main a staff ele in s/tPvP. People that think staff eles are weak are simply using them wrong.

Staff eles provide excellent support to a team. The support comes from excellent heals, excellent CC, and good aoe damage support. On top of that, we have access to many shared boons / auras through the use of blast finishers and combo fields. When you’re running with a team (by this, I mean you have one or two other people with you), you’re a great asset.

What you shouldn’t expect to do is consistently 1v1 particular professions and builds. You’re simply not meant to if you’re using a staff. Furthermore, staying at maximum range is not you’re biggest priority (unless you’re running a GC build, but I don’t see why you should be). With all the CC and heals, you’re fairly tanky if built correctly, so if you’re opponents are choosing to go after you rather than you’re teamates, you can actually do a good job at surviving while still supporting your team, who will hopefully finish the job for you. If the focus has shifted off of you, you should still be in the fray, stacking might with your fire 2 and using either earth 2, earth dodge roll (with evasive arcana) and arcane blast. Note that 2/3s of these require you to be in the middle of everything. With 12+ stacks of might (shared with your teamates, mind you), even the tankiest of builds won’t hit like wet noodles.

Some comments on you’re changes:

Earth 2 / Fire 2 : Yes, they are easy to walk out of. Quickly in fact. Which is fine, considering that you hopefully placed them on a cap point. Which is what you should always be doing with your AoEs. Furthermore, these two sync up greatly for a might blast finisher. While I can understand the 3/4 seconds before Fire 2 even ticks may be frustrating, it’s not too terrible considering its purpose.

Earth 4: I must disagree with this one as well. Yes, running through it once provides a meager 2 seconds of cripple. Nothing to write home about. But if you place it on a point of interest, and hell, even kite back and forth on it, you’ll see your opponents moving back and forth across it too. This is why it stays on the ground for a decent amount of time. I actually love how this skill works right now.

Fire 1: OK as is, though I do think it hits quite enough at times, considering it’s your main auto-attack for damage. Still, it’s great spammable AoE damage. Being farther away should make it easier to dodge, lots of abilities are like that. As I stated above, being at maximum range will prevent you from working at peak efficiency anyways.

Fire 4: Eh, I can’t say I have a problem with the ability. On one hand, with arcane blast off CD, I can use them both for a quick 3 stacks of might. If I really need to escape, I can use this, switch to air, and use 3. I really don’t see a need to change this ability; it’s not exactly meant to be used as an escape; it’s more for the quick fire field.

Water 1 : I agree, I dislike this ability. I never use it because, like you said, it’s impossible to get meaningful heals out of it. +1 to this’n.

Water 5: While it would make it very convenient, I think this could potentially make it borderline OP. This ability is great for your team battling on a capture point, hell, the radius is even larger than the point itself. This is not meant to be a heal on the fly, that you use when you’re running away or even being focused. It’s situational. And in the right situation, it’s amazing (especially with the trait that removes conditions when you apply regeneration to allies).

Air 1: Not necessary; it’s fine how it is. To me, it sounds like you just want to be able to do more single target damage.

Air 3: This ability does miss a lot, but I find that when it does miss, I used it at the wrong time. Say, if a target was fleeing, strafing, dodging, or simply too far away. As is, this ability is great in the right situation, such as interrupting a res, a powerful move on an ally, giving yourself breathing room if an enemy is up in your grill. It shouldn’t be something you just mindless press of cooldown, or when you happen to be in air attunement.

Air 5: Why? This move is amazing as is. Throw one of these bad boys down in the middle of a capture point, and you’re entire team has an instant advantage.

I’m sorry, i dont intend to be rude or anything but:

- what rating did you get in tpvp with staff? I cant find you on the leaderboards.

^ I doubt that I am rated as I have only been solo queuing. On top of that, I quit playing the game until earlier this month. The rating system is rather subpar on this game anyways, if you’re trying to invalidate my points through this, then good luck having a constructive discussion.

Muramasma.1570:

^ I doubt that I am rated as I have only been solo queuing. On top of that, I quit playing the game until earlier this month. The rating system is rather subpar on this game anyways, if you’re trying to invalidate my points through this, then good luck having a constructive discussion.

I’m not trying to invalidate your points (some of them were really solid). Im only trying to say that the tactics you describe are only useful vs very low skilled players.

And I was curious to find out your rating, because I never happened to see a staff ele in a decent ladder position.

Rerroll.9083:

I’m not invalidating your points. Im only saying the tactics you describe are only useful vs very low skilled players.

And I was curious to find out your rating, because I never happened to see a staff ele in a decent ladder position.

You raise a good point, there are practically no staff eles in any decent teams. In my opinion, while the staff does give great support CC and decent group heals, the game focuses too much on spike damage, which is why support damage is viewed as undesirable. Furthermore, with spike damage as an emphasis, to be a good support, you must focus on support alone to be effective in high level play. That’s why an ele, which provides good support in multiple fields, may fall short in high level play. I’d say this isn’t because staff ele is weak, this is solely because spike damage is out of hand, which is something I’ve brought up in several posts. Were it to be toned down, support / pressure damage would be much more viable, and the eles brand of support would be nothing short of incredible.

Muramasma.1570:

Rerroll.9083:

I’m not invalidating your points. Im only saying the tactics you describe are only useful vs very low skilled players.

And I was curious to find out your rating, because I never happened to see a staff ele in a decent ladder position.

You raise a good point, there are practically no staff eles in any decent teams. In my opinion, while the staff does give great support CC and decent group heals, the game focuses too much on spike damage, which is why support damage is viewed as undesirable. Furthermore, with spike damage as an emphasis, to be a good support, you must focus on support alone to be effective in high level play. That’s why an ele, which provides good support in multiple fields, may fall short in high level play. I’d say this isn’t because staff ele is weak, this is solely because spike damage is out of hand, which is something I’ve brought up in several posts. Were it to be toned down, support / pressure damage would be much more viable, and the eles brand of support would be nothing short of incredible.

look, im ok with staff being a “support”, in fact most of these “supports” skills can be used almost completely without the use of special equipment (you wont see much difference in the amount of healing/CC a zerker ele brings to one with say cleric, since the scalings are quite low and CC remains the same regardless of your build/traits)

I read your points to my op, and I have to say is, even with all you’ve said, we fall short. I will bring this one to the table; GS/Staff mesmer, shatter zerker build. He will be killing people, giving the entire party (5v5 tPvP) stealth (maybe you are going in pairs, still , stealth) or quickness, [all this without counting utilities, which in eles case, most of them are plain bad, except for cantrips, which guess what; they are selfish] will be providing a staff #5 in a capture point which is arguably stronger than any field eles have except for frozen field, since it will be giving aegis, swiftness, might and will be debuffing the enemies in several ways; team wide. GS will provide reliable on-the-call CC AoE while still putting out an ENORMOUS amount of damage.

Here is my counter point, you keep throwing CC to the table, but CC is in all classes, some have more than others, but CC doesnt scale with gear nor (in eles case) get better with traits (except for arcana Blasting wand which increases radius).

My point is; having CC does not justify the lack of…..oomph, CC is our only way of survival and as such (just like warriors have 28k hp pool and heavy armor, guardians have enourmous amount of damage mitigation, mesmers have stealth/clones and thieves have stealth) is just a form of defense which can be used offensively if we decide to forsake safety. But none of the afore mentioned classes have to sacrifice damage to become a live punching bag who is only capable of spamming CC. I would rather have the other classes which bring arguably as much CC and still can do damage.

Rigth now you are suffering from stockholm syndrome. Trust me, i went throught it, I thought the class was strong and I just needed to get better, that I couldnt kill stuff cuz i hadnt reach a certain skill-level. Then I played mesmer, guardian, warrior, thief (just to try them out, learn their mechanics and how to counter them) and I got depressed. It is not that they were easier, no, they were just as hard to master, only that one unit of effort into accomplishing something was 5 units of effort on the ele. Once again, im not talking about skill-ceiling, I might not be the best player NA, but I can certainly hold my ground. But you know something is wrong when I bring more to a team as a zerker mesmer GS/Staff than as an staff ele in any possible build you can imagine.

Fortus.6175:

Rigth now you are suffering from stockholm syndrome. Trust me, i went throught it, I thought the class was strong and I just needed to get better, that I couldnt kill stuff cuz i hadnt reach a certain skill-level. Then I played mesmer, guardian, warrior, thief (just to try them out, learn their mechanics and how to counter them) and I got depressed. It is not that they were easier, no, they were just as hard to master, only that one unit of effort into accomplishing something was 5 units of effort on the ele. Once again, im not talking about skill-ceiling, I might not be the best player NA, but I can certainly hold my ground. But you know something is wrong when I bring more to a team as a zerker mesmer GS/Staff than as an ele in any possible build you can imagine.

This

you can’t kill a thing with a staff unless you have an ally with you. You’re more like a supporter on the side-line cheering y’r allies on compared to D/D where you’re the one doing actual damage and controlling the battlefield.

The moment you are seen as a staff ele is the moment you die.

D/D is doing all the damage?
wat?

katniss.6735:

D/D is doing all the damage?
wat?

You do know this is a pvp forum right? And that unlike mobs any decent pvper will simply move or dodge roll out of staff AOE and take no damage, right? But please, link some more pve damage logs. So helpful to the discussion.

katniss.6735:

D/D is doing all the damage?
wat?

please enlight me in how you will have PvE set, food and 25 might stack on sPvP and tPvP, this is truly relevant to us all and i might even consider doing it myself, people might call me a hacker but if you did it then its possible! [/sarcasm]

No staff is not viable in tpvp..I mean here in eu people are even debating wether d/d is viable compared to s/d and you think staff would have a chance?
Its too slow,too unreliable,has little damage.And also…its support is lackluster!!!
Yeah you heard that.Tell me how it can match the burst healing of s/d ,the lock down of target that d/d offers plus high chill uptime,the d/d aurashare ,the amazing mightstacking of s/d,the mobility of d/d s/d,
You keep saying staff is a support weapon and yet i find it 10 times more difficult to heal people with it.It has water fields but so is engie and ranger for example only those either have a crazy radius and faster by far casting time or they last ages on point for allies to utilise.
Only thing it has in spvp is range but when a thief can port to you from the other side of the map in a few seconds and take you down then that doesnt matter kitten!
I personally envisioned staff as the ultimate versatilty ele weapon..something like engies bomb builds for example.You have the team support and if you play extremely well you can manage 1vs1.Perhaps onjure weapons would help.
But atm its just too slow..

katniss.6735:

D/D is doing all the damage?
wat?

Thanks PvE.

Also: Remembering 5 fire is bugged. It doesn’t deal any damage in the last 7 seconds of its duration

Give us a weapon swap or give us a staff that is capable of 1v1.

kostbabis.8791:

No staff is not viable in tpvp…

Its too slow,too unreliable,has little damage.And also…its support is lackluster!!!…

Only thing it has in spvp is range but when a thief can port to you from the other side of the map in a few seconds and take you down then that doesnt matter…

QFT.

There have been several threads on how to improve the staff for PvP in the ele forum over the last few months (actually since release) but since then nothing happened. They actually nerfed staff builds by nerfing multiple traits and skills.

It feels like there is no interest in making the staff (and focus) viable for PvP.

Also, everytime a new player asks me if there’s any viable high support build i have to say " well, you have staff ele but it’s not really viable. Try s/d or dd, but it’s more of a dps or bunker".

First, I think arcana’s #20 trait for the staff is so mandatory, that it should be implemented into the weapon itself. Or at least, some of it. For example, the auto-attacks, fire #2, air #2 and earth #2 could really benefit from having increased radius naturally. Air’s #5, meanwhile, doesn’t needs it, and it’s sometimes even worse for having it (IMO). Some other skills,like meteor shower and healing rain, already have a pretty good radius, so they’re fine as they are, without the trait. So yes, I suggest a revamp for that trait, and having its current effect work naturally on most (but not all) of the staff’s skills.

Second, we should only focus on the weaker skills. Some of the fields or blast finishers are hard to hit,yes, but they feel good enough to me (as long as they have the increased radius, of course). And I agree with Phantaram, that some damage could be added here and there for more dps over-time.

Fire #4 = Add a burst of aoe damage at the location the dodge is cast. Kinda like a reversed version of dagger’s burning speed. It doesn’t needs to be as strong, I think. This would make a big difference to fire’s damage output in general, and also make it a more satisfying skill to use, imo.

Water #1 = Twice the damage? It’s underpowered right now, but I don’t think the healing is that bad.

Air #2 = Slightly more damage to compensate for the long casting time.

Gust/ Shockwave = Improved functionality.

Shockwave = 3 stacks of bleeding instead of one for more damage over-time.

Unsteady Ground = Either more damage per second, of have it apply a single big stack (4s or more) of cripple instead of 2s each second.

I wouldn’t buff anything else.

Blackhat.4016:

There have been several threads on how to improve the staff for PvP in the ele forum over the last few months (actually since release) but since then nothing happened. They actually nerfed staff builds by nerfing multiple traits and skills.

It feels like there is no interest in making the staff (and focus) viable for PvP.

Sadly enough this is true. Me being a major contributor to this, I have made several threads but none has gotten any atention. Meanwhile ranger, warriors and even thieves get attention and are “underpowered”. I dare any dev to actually try to stand their ground with staff on sPvP and tPvP and then come tell us they are ok….

Staff is actually pretty strong in the right hands in tPvP. However, I would certainly enjoy seeing more Staffers than the annoying ones.

Why are people stating pve when clearly my targets are players in WvW?
The link to this post was in the Elementalist sub-forums. I wasn’t specifically talking about spvp at all, but in WvW. I have no earth or water in my staff spec. If I get downed, I rally instantly. Every single time.

katniss.6735:

Why are people stating pve when clearly my targets are players in WvW?
The link to this post was in the Elementalist sub-forums. I wasn’t specifically talking about spvp at all, but in WvW. I have no earth or water in my staff spec. If I get downed, I rally instantly. Every single time.

1- You’re not fighting idiotic zergs in tpvp that stand in aoe.
2- You’re not fighting upscaled players that you can hit for 8k meteors.
3 Your petty little channel still gets outdone by a simple burning speed>circle of fire, and if you even want to pump it up a fire grab as well.

Staff does pretty terrible sustained damage on a target player, and it brings no burst. Its use is basically the chill field, the stun field, and the line root. Everything else the other weapons do better.

I think people really underestimate how bad the loss of pressure is with the staff. If you can’t pressure opponents well by yourself, you are an easy target to shut down. Counterburst/conditionbombing is an important aspect in the classes that are faring well now. If you can constantly be put on the defensive without being able by yourself to do the same to your opponent, that’s a big disadvantage.

katniss.6735:

Why are people stating pve when clearly my targets are players in WvW?
The link to this post was in the Elementalist sub-forums. I wasn’t specifically talking about spvp at all, but in WvW. I have no earth or water in my staff spec. If I get downed, I rally instantly. Every single time.

while Im interested in your build (seriously am, send me a private message with it if you can please) the matter at hand being discussed involves a smaller pvp scenario, the one that you tend to find outside zergs or in sPvP.

The reason why it is not wise to bring PvE into sPvP matter is that; you cant mix-and-match stats, you pretty much are stuck with one of the 9 different stats combination, and the other one just as important; stats do not scale as much. On PvE you can go up to 102% crit increas (without ascended counting in) meanwhile in PvP you cant get any higher than 65% i belief.

Also many skills (like arcana trait 30 for effects at the end of dodges, which in PvE heals a full dagger #5 water, but in PvP heals half of it only) and condition coefficient work differently. hp pool of a warrior is ~28k hp on sPvP while on PvE (specially wvw) I have seen it close to 40k hp.

While I agree staff elementalist is not that viable in tpvp, but staff eles are very common and good in WvWvW.

I really Arenanet wouldn’t buff staff elementalists so that the changes would also affect WvWvW, since this would make them overpowered in WvWvW.

So far almost every skill “balance” decision has been made based on tpvp, even though anybody can see that WvWvW and spvp/tpvp are completely different game modes. Tpvp is mostly about holding and contesting points, while WvWvW has much larger scale battles, much more big open field fights, groups of tightly packed enemies (perfect for large AoE tagging), siege war and moving around a bigger map. So far there has been very little split between WvWvW and tpvp.

Deniara Devious.3948:

While I agree staff elementalist is not that viable in tpvp, but staff eles are very common and good in WvWvW.

I really Arenanet wouldn’t buff staff elementalists so that the changes would also affect WvWvW, since this would make them overpowered in WvWvW.

So far almost every skill “balance” decision has been made based on tpvp, even though anybody can see that WvWvW and spvp/tpvp are completely different game modes. Tpvp is mostly about holding and contesting points, while WvWvW has much larger scale battles, much more big open field fights, groups of tightly packed enemies (perfect for large AoE tagging), siege war and moving around a bigger map. So far there has been very little split between WvWvW and tpvp.

The only reason staff works in wvw is because the current wvw playstyle is a zergfest. If skirmishes would be more prominent you’d see staff in decline.

You guys are coming off very aggressive, and making it sound like I came here to brag while having no actual knowledge of my class.

I can play glass staff with my guildies who I know are using their own class skills defensively to keep people away from me. I use all of my CC’s and heals as well as drop bombs. Staff puts out more damage than D/D. It’s just that D/D can spread it out more. I play every weapon set in spvp and wvw. I swap weapons in WvW more often.
We call the eles and necros back-liners. And we’re all on voice comms.

I bought full zerkers specifically for my WvW staff build and s/d. I don’t PVE. I have 10% of the dungeon master achievement done, and 32k kills (not a lot) in WvW. As for spvp, I’m only rank 13 because I queue solo, and find it boring. I just test specs there and that’s it. My server is rank 7 NA. I firmly believe my guild to be the best WvW guild on the server.

In a lot of times when a zerg has over 40 people, I probably am not going to be playing staff unless I’m with at least 8 guildies or I won’t be able to rely on the extra CC going out. Staff’s main goal above damage is CC, then heals, then damage. You see enemy drop veil, you have 3 different CC’s you can drop there. With 20 in arcana for increased radii, you can start with frozen ground. Then go to static when you see the clump, then earth for unsteady ground. Then hit magnetic shield if you are taking ranged damage, and drop an eruption, or switch to fire for group might and begin your fire on a cluster.

In spvp as staff I hang back, or try to get to high ground where I can play pretty much the same way as I do in WvW. I use zerkers there as well, otherwise what’s the point of playing staff at all?

Worst thing IMHO about Staff Eles are the Traits and the 1 Sigil-Slot, especially the Trait “Blasting Staff” is so annoying, because it means you’ll loose perma-vigor on basically every build that isn’t a cantrip-bunker (which is much weaker on staff anyways than on any other weapon-sets). So I basically have to get the Energy-runes on the Staff, which means compared to other Ele-builds, I loose 2 Sigils. The amount of DPS I loose on that is huge; +5% Crit or +5% DMG and Might-Stacks or Signet of Fire or anything like that. It’s already hard enough to make a decent balanced-build with sustain and DMG, because it’s hard to get to any good amount of Crit-Chance (nothing good on Air for Staff anyways).

What I want to see is basically:

1) Change Blasting Staff to be incorporated into one of the useless Fire-Traits (Lava Tomb or Burning Fire for example).
2) Give the Staff a second Aura (So you can get to a decent amount of Fury together with Zephyr’s Boon).
3) For Gods Sake, make 2-handed Weapons have 2 Sigil-Slots, I see no reason why not, because 2-handed Weapons are in no way inherently better than 2 one-handed Weapons.

Why do you need to dodge more in staff when fire gives you a third dodge?
I still use three cantrips. Arcane blast when not near the enemy for might stacking or swiftness. But mostly it’s not worth using at all. I have energy sigil on my off-hand in d/d.
If anything needs to be changed in staff, it should be the speed of auto-attacks, or increased aoe caps. But neither are necessary.
You need to remember all of the combos that can come from various fields.

Off-Topic:
Scepter does even higher burst than staff, but is equally dangerous, if not more dangerous to play in WvW. S/F has high survivability vs a lot of things. But the mobility is minimal. It’s not impossible to be full zerkers. My mf set for PVE is S/D, 3 cantrips, D/D build 0/0/20/20/30, zerker/pvt jewellery for southsun shore, because the mobs can do a ton of damage, and have a ton of projectiles that need to be dodged.

katniss.6735:

D/D is doing all the damage?
wat?

If you can hit enemy 4 times with meteor shower, it means the enemy was trying to catch meteors.

There comes 60 individual meteors but it hit max 2 or 3 times on a stationary target, seriously Anet?

Agreed on most, but not fully on the reasoning part.

15 second cooldown to burning retreat (20s atm) for better avoidance. (mesmer version is 10s CD, and being the sole reason for the incredible survivability off staff/- mesmer).
Much more reliable Gust – faster and/or wider.
This should already be massive boost for surviving. Even just the BR alone would be massive.

Then 1/4 seconds off from the cast time of eruption or ability to blow it up for half damage (still blast). And Lava Font ticking right away. For more reliable damage.

These alone would get me solo roaming with staff in wvwvw.

Add couple boosts to that, like 3s cripple or add a blind (fix the trigger area) for Unsteady Ground, mobile Healing Rain … And there would be no doubt.

However if I had to choose between
- Burning Retreat CD reduce + Eruption&Ice Spike cast&explode time reduced + lava font insta tick
vs
- Burning Retreat CD reduce + all the CC boosts you can think of.
I would go for the DPS reliability boost without a question.

fake pic, meteor doesnt hit people

Id like to see an official answer on the 1 sigil restriction to 2hand weapon when they are clearly not superior (they are actually worse, if we talk about the ele class).

Also, the staff should be improved separately in pvp than wvw and pve, because as far as I know it’s stronger there.

Rerroll.9083:

Id like to see an official answer on the 1 sigil restriction to 2hand weapon when they are clearly not superior (they are actually worse, if we talk about the ele class).

Also, the staff should be improved separately in pvp than wvw and pve, because as far as I know it’s stronger there.

It’s stronger in WvW because people don’t dodge.

I’ve racked up loads of kills firing a mortar’s Incendiary shells onto a bridge. People just stood there and burned to death (500 damage per tick….to death). I wouldn’t say that that makes Incendiary Mortar “viable.” I’d say that makes zerglings dumb.

Staff in pve is decent, but not that great, even taking into consideration the simple AI. Several pvp chances to the staff could also help it in pve.

WvW really is the exception here, due to the mass player zerging and the fact that you’ll have a wall between you and your opponent most of the time, making any 1200 range weapon (+ aoe) optimal.

In pve, 1200 range does not makes as much difference as it does in wvw, and you won’t always be fighting versus groups. Besides, scepter and dagger have plenty of good aoe to burst an entire group. Generally, pve’s staff is cool as a safe/ easy-to-play weapon for parties/ dungeons, but it doesn’t stands out otherwise.