Guild Wars 2

ArrDee.2573:

Hello frands! Vee Wee here, #1 Engi NA and world first rank 80!

Please have an option to disable graphic finishers as well and replace them with the basic finisher! Asura visuals were hard to see so you normalized the models! The same thing needs to happen with giant flashy finishers that blind me! How am I supposed to see anything when a giant worm comes out of the ground and covers everything! Oh here comes a hambow right out of the worm’s gullet to Earthshaker me!

Wahoo! Bye frands!

yes, this, please.

Branden Gee.2150:

While there are some arguments to have this available in all PvP formats we want to see how this new feature is used by the high-end, skilled players at the top tier of PvP before considering rolling this out to the more broad PvP user base.

Please include this for solo queue too!

I can sort of understand not including it for hotjoin, but solo queue players are tired of being treated like second class citizens. Solo queue is competitive, so why restrict it from having an option that’s designed for competitive play?

Branden Gee.2150:

While there are some arguments to have this available in all PvP formats we want to see how this new feature is used by the high-end, skilled players at the top tier of PvP before considering rolling this out to the more broad PvP user base.

What do you mean by “how is this new feature used”? There’s not a how, it’s pretty binary: you use it, or you don’t. So it is just a “how much is it used”. And I’ll bet it will be close to 100%.

And, apart from this, who cares how much (only) teamq will use the feature? This has been asked since a lot by so many (not only teamq) players that it’s astonishing and appalling that you will let the soloq players wait for its implementation more time.

ArrDee.2573:

Hello frands! Vee Wee here, #1 Engi NA and world first rank 80!

Please have an option to disable graphic finishers as well and replace them with the basic finisher! Asura visuals were hard to see so you normalized the models! The same thing needs to happen with giant flashy finishers that blind me! How am I supposed to see anything when a giant worm comes out of the ground and covers everything! Oh here comes a hambow right out of the worm’s gullet to Earthshaker me!

Wahoo! Bye frands!

Shhh, that announcement comes on the 19th.

Anet should seriously hire Vee Wee. I would read his red posts everywhere, plus his ideas are legit.

Branden Gee.2150:

While there are some arguments to have this available in all PvP formats we want to see how this new feature is used by the high-end, skilled players at the top tier of PvP before considering rolling this out to the more broad PvP user base.

I’m sorry, but what is there to see?

Players will toggle this option on and will be able to react better to enemies because they aren’t fighting a team of 5 asura. It just sounds like you’re trying to inflate the egos of players who focus on Team Arena —sorry, I mean— high-end, skilled players at the top tier of PvP.

What, exactly, about the usage of this feature do you need to “see”?
What are the reasons for not rolling this out for all of sPvP (and even WvW)?

You’re pandering to the Team Arena community by giving them a shiny new toy while denying it to the rest of your player base even though it would clearly benefit every competitive mode of this game.

This is a huge letdown.

Just heard about this and had to finally come back to the forums is say i cant believe its happening finally. GJ

NOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I want everyone to see my giant norn mesmer.

Branden Gee.2150:

nearlight.3064:

Will the streaming of these tournaments in the future use the standard models when we see the big official ones on twitch?

At this time spectators will not see standard models. This includes shoutcasters.

While there are some arguments to have this available in all PvP formats we want to see how this new feature is used by the high-end, skilled players at the top tier of PvP before considering rolling this out to the more broad PvP user base.

Maybe a public test server for top tier players would help with this, same for the balancing. Many other games do this as well

Branden Gee.2150:

nearlight.3064:

Will the streaming of these tournaments in the future use the standard models when we see the big official ones on twitch?

At this time spectators will not see standard models. This includes shoutcasters.

While there are some arguments to have this available in all PvP formats we want to see how this new feature is used by the high-end, skilled players at the top tier of PvP before considering rolling this out to the more broad PvP user base.

Implying that all of team-queue is populated by high-end skill players… I just got out of a team queue (solo-d into it to avoid skyhammer), where my 4 teammates fought on home all game and couldn’t kill a turret engineer. All while the enemy team’s guardian bunker sat on there home all game. The skill.

If it’s feedback from top-end players… I’d limit this to custom arenas at first. Observe it in action during the weekly tournaments. Otherwise open it up to all of soloQ and teamQ. You’ll get a much larger feedback.

Branden Gee.2150:

nearlight.3064:

Will the streaming of these tournaments in the future use the standard models when we see the big official ones on twitch?

At this time spectators will not see standard models. This includes shoutcasters.

While there are some arguments to have this available in all PvP formats we want to see how this new feature is used by the high-end, skilled players at the top tier of PvP before considering rolling this out to the more broad PvP user base.

i can not believe this

you guyz even realize this is exact the point why we lose playerz? Cause you act like this?

your players dont like TeamQ cause it is kitten broken and has nothing to do with TOP-Tier-Playerz – its all about farming randoms or pugs – and this since day 1 and was the reason why you made soloQ cause people left this game left and right and every psot in this forum was about asking for a soloQ

you guyz know you shipped this game allraedy? its not in beta anymore? we are not kitten testers? we buyd this game? we payed for it? we are the players? can you atleast act like this and start to care for your players?

seriously with this action and your post you jsut say to us soloQ players we are piece of kitten and dont deserve this things and we have to go TeamQ cause you guys think teamQ has to be the big part and is the thing we should have fun with and is the thing this game needes and …. wtf

fix kitten teamQ so people start to like it and dont force players to play it even when they hate it

so annoying

its an kitten mmo not an ego shooter and we (not all) buyd this game as an mmo your e-sport kitten going on my nerves

seriously

Wow really?
No matter what Arena Net fixes, they get chased in circles to fix more

I mean seriously, I tpvp every single night for 2 to 3 hours at least
And I never once was bothered by different character models

Even if you wanted to argue small vs large
Didn’t you ever think that it’s a GOOD thing for your Guardian to be large?
That way you’re protecting your Asuran Elementalist?

Can someone tell me why you have to be a "top-tier pvp’er" to realise that you don’t like seeing asura and want to just see your opponents as standardised models? That is literally the most mind blowing excuse I have ever read as justification for not immediately rolling this feature to *all* PvP modes.

Branden Gee.2150:

nearlight.3064:

Will the streaming of these tournaments in the future use the standard models when we see the big official ones on twitch?

At this time spectators will not see standard models. This includes shoutcasters.

While there are some arguments to have this available in all PvP formats we want to see how this new feature is used by the high-end, skilled players at the top tier of PvP before considering rolling this out to the more broad PvP user base.

You guys are wrong then. Solo Q consists of exactly the same set of players who also team queue. They solo Q until their teams comes on and then they team Q. Because teams are hard to form, most of the “top players” actually put MOST of their time into solo Q.

It is an anet myth that team Q is this high level of play compared to solo Q. It is the same players.

Eugenides.1274:

Branden Gee.2150:

While there are some arguments to have this available in all PvP formats we want to see how this new feature is used by the high-end, skilled players at the top tier of PvP before considering rolling this out to the more broad PvP user base.

I’m sorry, but what is there to see?

Players will toggle this option on and will be able to react better to enemies because they aren’t fighting a team of 5 asura. It just sounds like you’re trying to inflate the egos of players who focus on Team Arena —sorry, I mean— high-end, skilled players at the top tier of PvP.

What, exactly, about the usage of this feature do you need to “see”?
What are the reasons for not rolling this out for all of sPvP (and even WvW)?

You’re pandering to the Team Arena community by giving them a shiny new toy while denying it to the rest of your player base even though it would clearly benefit every competitive mode of this game.

This is a huge letdown.

There is no team arena community. Everyone who team queues (or almost everyone) also solo q’s even more…..

There is no good reason to exclude this option in soloQ. There are plenty of ‘’high-end pvp players’’ playing soloQ. You already have maps like skyhammer and spirit watch which many people express discontent about. Now you finally decide to implement a great change in the name of pvp, but once again you want to screw over soloQ?

It is this simple: People who play soloQ are just as happy for the change as people who play in teamQ. Both populations (which are not exactly mutually exclusive..) join their respective queues to do PVP. It is equally important in BOTH game modes to read your opponents’ animations. That is how you have designed this game. So be sensible and add this feature to soloQ aswell.

Why have you added soloQ if you are going to undermine it by awkward maps AND lack of features? I know a lot of people who play both teamQ and soloQ, and many of them express discontent with asura animations. For these people, only allowing the feature in teamQ just makes no sense. It would be appreciated equally in both game modes.

It simply makes the game more rewarding both in terms of success and failures when you win or lose in a way that seems fair

The case where standard models are allowed in soloQ:
I clearly saw the animation, and I failed to dodge it. Fair enough. I lose.
I clearly saw the animation, I managed to dodge it and capitalized on my advantage. Fair enough. Victory!

The case where standard models are not allowed in soloQ, aka how it is now:
I COULDN’T see the animation, and thus I had no chance to deliberately counterplay my asura opponent. I lose. kitten THIS GAME!
I COULDN’T see the animation, but I randomly dodged the crucial ability of my asura opponent. Phew, I made it this time, but not due to my own capabilities.

I know which case I prefer. And I think the large majority of soloQ players agree with me.

Arenanet, if you want a larger PVP playerbase, do yourself AND US the favor of adding this standard model feature to soloQ also.

Srsly?….What is going on in this game!!!!!

First they made same daily for pvp and pve.
Then they made gold rewards!
Then they removed pvp skins and forced me to get transmutation charges instead of simple switching armor from pvp wardrobe(yes its not hard but i like to change my armor and creating new apearance, sometimes i can do it 4-5 times per day)

Now Anet says that top players cant recognise the animation of Asuras?
Srsly? I am not top player and i know most of animations of all classes and races!!!!

And top players MUST know them…because they want to be top players!!!!

We have faceroling warriors with no skill cap…we have faceroling power necros with low skillcap…

PvP becoming casual? whats next? we would stack in corners and use fgs skill #4 ? or what is going to be next with sPvP????

And just one more cry…i’ve made a cool looking char just for my enemies to see my huge pink human with cool pink quaggan stomping them with a quaggan finisher! and now…i cant show it to my enemies? rly? in the game where apearance is the only valuable thing???? what the censored?!

the hard to telegraph asura animations and the different range scaling were an issue since beginning. stated by many top players from the beginning.
it is an issue. anet listened and did the right thing.
who gives a f about cosmetics in a match.

still you guys are complaining.
if i were anet, at this time i would just drop development.

i wish all of you to get your accounts hacked

I am the one in the camp that believes standard models are the wrong approach to foster better, more sustainable competitive PvP.

Competitive PvP players like to look unique as much as your standard PvE player. But to be honest they are more aware of the surroundings.

What is needed, from my point of view, is enemy cast bars, and target of target support. That will help the game mode more than making everyone look the same ever will.

Altie.4571:

I am the one in the camp that believes standard models are the wrong approach to foster better, more sustainable competitive PvP.

Competitive PvP players like to look unique as much as your standard PvE player. But to be honest they are more aware of the surroundings.

What is needed, from my point of view, is enemy cast bars, and target of target support. That will help the game mode more than making everyone look the same ever will.

oh yes better enemy bar so you will see all pasive skills,effects and casts . I hope one day on all gametypes we will se enemy health,armor etc not only bar which is full or empty even stupid % on health bar .

It’s great that anet is finally doing this, but it’s hard to hand out gold stars when it lacks options and is still two years late.

There is only an option for all enemies or none. Why not allow players to select which races to standardize? Asura are the reason for this, so why make every enemy generic looking when only race is the issue?

Why is the only standard model human when charr and norn are even bigger and easier to read?

There is no good reason to restrict the feature to certain modes.

I’m just jumping in to repeat that this will be the greatest thing ANet has done for pvp so far, so thank you again!

I don’t think the OP is right that people who themselves play human avatars will now have an advantage, as watching ally animations isn’t nearly as important as watching enemy animations (especially if you’re an organised team on voice comms). However, I think it would be nice to have the option to force standard models for allies too at some point.

I think the devs made the right choice to not make standard models visible to shoutcasters. High end pvpers want to be visible and recognisable to promote their image, especially if they’ve got “esports” ambitions, so forcing them to all look alike would drive some of them away.

Liewec.2896:

Exile.8160:

why would anyone care what your enemy thinks.

because “Foegore the Giant” should look like this…
not some skinny rank 1 human!

Let me guess, Foegore is the tiny white-haired asura, right? :p

Teamq = F ur dress up doll
Soloq = F in ur dress up doll
Esports = casters make use of casting bars

What is the reason to exclude this from soloq? It needs it as well!

manveruppd.7601:

Liewec.2896:

Exile.8160:

why would anyone care what your enemy thinks.

because “Foegore the Giant” should look like this…
not some skinny rank 1 human!

Let me guess, Foegore is the tiny white-haired asura, right? :p

lol XD
if only i did play asurans and deserved to be neutered XD
but unfortunately only one of my ten chars is an asuran, but all of them will be turned into default clones by this change.
one of them is already human and uses the 3000g greatsaw skin, so for them to get transformed into a noob with default greatsword is kinds hilariously ridiculous.

asura is the problem, fix asura. don’t nerf us all!

Maybe using the standard model system for watching streamed tourneys will promote the game as a better e-sport by making it easier for people that don’t know much about GW2 pvp too watch.

You’re pandering to the Team Arena community by giving them a shiny new toy while denying it to the rest of your player base even though it would clearly benefit every competitive mode of this game.

This is a huge letdown.[/quote]

Agreed.

@Liewec: spectators, you yourself, and your teammates will always see your characters as you designed them, as will any enemies who don’t have the standard models option enabled (which I believe will be over half the people you play with, as only the people really serious about winning care enough). So why do you mind what you look like to everyone else? Bear in mind also that, while ASuras are the biggest (lol) problem, they’re not the only one: huge Norns that teammates can literally HIDE INSIDE and obscure large bits of the screen are also kinda ridiculous.

Liewec.2896:

style.6173:

Wait, so everyone will look the same? I can’t see the outfit styles of the enemy? They release that at the same time as new PvP reward armor?

Hopefully I am wrong with what I said above. Otherwise, it is just another bad decision.

its an option, so it can be turned off for you personally but lets be realistic, everyone will have it on due to the asura issues, so yep, now you will look like just another rank 1 clone no matter what race you are or how much time, gold and real world cash you’ve spent on your look.

Anet: “upscaling asuran characters was not the answer we were looking for”
but making everyone look like a noob was? bravo anet,
one more fail for your impressively large collection!
R.I.P outfit sales.

Indeed, I honestly don’t want it to happen they are just going to annihilate the little uniqueness that we have and make everything linear.. I also wouldn’t be surprised if they just made all classes exactly the same but with different looking abilities for “competitive purposes”. It’s getting a little out of control.

Let’s say I have a human character, with some design selected by me and my favorite PvE ascended armor. Will my character and armor be standardised for the enemy team even if it is human?

So since this game is to hard now we will make it easy mode by normalizing all actions so everyone can see everything.

Might as well just let ppl que up and give them a participation trophy for just showing up.

Oh wait…

Assassin X.8573:

normalizing all actions so everyone can see everything.

those prestige armors this hardcore pvpers will get i wont see them wearing it XD
and you won the TOL tourney? you won twice? so you have legendary and your toon? i wont see that either

I guarantee that the vast majority of players don’t give a skritt what you’re wearing or using. (They’re more concerned with whether YOU are impressed with what they’re using.)

Forget about trying to impress other people. You don’t need validation from other players to have a good time.

Acrisor.8097:

Let’s say I have a human character, with some design selected by me and my favorite PvE ascended armor. Will my character and armor be standardised for the enemy team even if it is human?

I think yes, probably standardize model will cover everything if the option is enable.

Btw it could be good compromise, if u are a human character, standardize model doesn’t cover your character, weapons and armor.

MarkPhilips.5169:

Acrisor.8097:

Let’s say I have a human character, with some design selected by me and my favorite PvE ascended armor. Will my character and armor be standardised for the enemy team even if it is human?

I think yes, probably standardize model will cover everything if the option is enable.

Btw it could be good compromise, if u are a human character, standardize model doesn’t cover your character, weapons and armor.

I’m increasingly thinking that this standardised model feature should only change the race. The weapons and armor should remain the same (any cultural armour should just be converted to the equivalent human cultural armour, so Tier III Asuran Heavy Armour would be converted to Tier III Human Heavy Armour).

I’ve said this before but I think that this situation highlights again the flaws in ArenaNets development process: they do all the design and implementation behind closed doors and present it when it’s already finished a couple of weeks before it’s released and as a result it feels (to me at least) like it’s never quite right and there are a flood of good ideas that are simply too late to be taken into consideration.

I’m a software engineer and I have to say that the idea of implementing a solution before you actually check that it meets the customers requirements is madness. I think presenting the proposed solution earlier and getting feedback when it would still be useful would be a whole lot better.

Instead we have a situation where the horse – repeatedly – bolts and then a bunch of us tell them what kind of bolt they should have used and how they should have fastened that bolt.

Of course your solution would be ideal, but i think it’s difficult to make in this way.

But i’m not an anet dev, so i’m not sure about that.

MarkPhilips.5169:

Of course your solution would be ideal, but i think it’s difficult to make in this way.

But i’m not an anet dev, so i’m not sure about that.

It shouldn’t be any more difficult. If it was too difficult then serious questions need to be asked about their architecture.

Basically, when a player’s character pops into view in a game like this the server tells your client what they look like by sending a small amount of data that says what their race and class is and what equipment they’re using and so on. Your client will then hang onto and use that information to assemble the model for the character until told by the server that something has changed.

With the solution ArenaNet have given, one of two things is going to happen here. The first is that the server would send back “basic human, basic armour and weapons” instead of what your character is actually using. The second is that the server will sends back everything as normal and the client decides to ignore most of what it receives and to use a basic human model and will just use the rest of the information to look up the appropriate basic armour and basic weapons for the model it creates.

Instead the server could simply send back “human” for race and everything else as normal (unless one or more armour pieces are cultural in which case it would find and send the human equivalent, which is itself a trivial task) or the client could simply take the current data stream and do any “rewriting” itself – so it would change Male Charr in full Tier III Dreadnought to Male Human in full Tier III Seraph.

At the time of coding neither of these options would be all that much more complicated than the other, it’s just probably too late in the day to change it now.

that being said

>>people re-roll to human (team wont benefit from anything else)

>> enemy teams turning off standard models as there’s no longer a need.

I see what you did there Arenanet.

MarkPhilips.5169:

Btw it could be good compromise, if u are a human character, standardize model doesn’t cover your character, weapons and armor.

No. That’s not fair. In that case you’d be penalising everyone not playing a human, as humans will have more customisation options than them.

Plus, this isn’t just about tiny asuras being invisible. It’s about people going into pvp with cook’s outfits so you can’t tell what class they are. It’s about massive shoulderpads which your weapons clip into so you can’t see skill animations. It’s about looking at an opponent and being able to SEE AT A GLANCE what class they are instead of having to look at the target display!

That means one distinctive armour skin for each class, and I’m happy with this meaning a bit of a loss of individuality if it improves pvp. It’s worth it if I’m able to tell warriors from guardians and eles from necros without even needing to target them. In the future, I can see them “vetting” 2-3 additional armour skins per class and let us choose between them, assuming they are also profession-appropriate and highly distinctive. Maybe for instance necros could choose between tribal and dry bones, or eles between Flame Legion and stately – stuff that’s recognisable from a distance and easy to tell apart. But that would be a bonus for me: I’d be happy to stick with 1 skin per class if it improves the game!

Regarding standard human model in PvP I think is bad marketing, simply because in my small gaming experience I saw no other game doing a global modification in race for PvP. Take for or example WoW (a popular game) has not modified their smallest race similar to asura (gnome) to look like other race (tauren or human).

Although I personally do not like this change for GW2 PvP, I do respect other players request, because the players (not ArenaNet) came with the idea for all-human race in PvP. Please read the past topics for more information.

Phaeton.9582:

that being said

>>people re-roll to human (team wont benefit from anything else)

>> enemy teams turning off standard models as there’s no longer a need.

I see what you did there Arenanet.

Was there any headway on this?
Will it be shipped 1/2@ss’ed for a deliberate reason?
Why not make the entire teamQ standardized?
Why even make teamQ and not soloQ standardized if the tournaments for the team players will not be standardized?

it’s not only asuras, Giant norn or charr mesmers take advantage of the size to block your view with giant clones. Not only that Some weapons also cause problems like the legendary greatsword on a giant norn or charr guardian when they start spinning around with those weapons you really can’t see anything because It cover the whole node.

Also having someone with the legendary bow unicorn shooting from behind you It blocks some of your view so you can’t tell what that tiny asura is gonna do in the mix of a big battle.

So In some special cases it’s not only for the Asura it’s for the big ones too.

Edit: Also I believe the reason they didn’t involve solo q with the standardize models is probably They’re gonna remove it and or change it for the a new pvp mode but that’s just speculation

Amstel Steel.2058:

Phaeton.9582:

that being said

>>people re-roll to human (team wont benefit from anything else)

>> enemy teams turning off standard models as there’s no longer a need.

I see what you did there Arenanet.

Was there any headway on this?
Will it be shipped 1/2@ss’ed for a deliberate reason?
Why not make the entire teamQ standardized?
Why even make teamQ and not soloQ standardized if the tournaments for the team players will not be standardized?

Seems like a QA driven thing. If we go on about how great it is, it could be rolled out to other game modes. As you can see from this thread the feedback is alreafy mixed though, and thats not going to help things progress ad quickly as some of us would like…

Amstel Steel.2058:

Phaeton.9582:

that being said

>>people re-roll to human (team wont benefit from anything else)

>> enemy teams turning off standard models as there’s no longer a need.

I see what you did there Arenanet.

Was there any headway on this?
Will it be shipped 1/2@ss’ed for a deliberate reason?
Why not make the entire teamQ standardized?
Why even make teamQ and not soloQ standardized if the tournaments for the team players will not be standardized?

Seems like a QA driven thing. If we go on about how great it is, it could be rolled out to other game modes. As you can see from this thread the feedback is already mixed though, and thats not going to help things progress as quickly as some of us would like…

Phaeton.9582:

Seems like a QA driven thing. If we go on about how great it is, it could be rolled out to other game modes.

It won’t be great if they try to use it as a ploy to entice players to reroll. The point you brought up to see “everyone standardized” in a match needs to go live. Releasing an option to standardize only 5/10 players in a match I see as a joke.

Phaeton.9582:

As you can see from this thread the feedback is already mixed though, and thats not going to help things progress as quickly as some of us would like…

The lord of vain told us that the sun was coming and that bloody sun was a bunch of chick dolls who cluck if you can’t see their hair.

I won’t use standard models if possible, i don’t have problems fighting asuras…if someone does he can do it np, but everyone looking the same it’s just making the games look worse. I’ll stick to the old way if it’s gonna be an activable option….as i hope

Anyway don’t be so confident…if you can’t evade eviscerate from asuras 90% of the times you won’t evade it from humans too..most of the work on dodging skills is not seeing them but KNOWING when they’re coming, if a war goes from lb to axe you know (Or at least you SHOULD know) he has intelligence signet…so you know one of the 3 skills after swap is gonna be an eviscerate..in order to dodge good you need to know what the other guy is gonna use and when (So start reminding cooldowns, looking at weapon swap and stuff) got many ppl while on asura war and those who were not able to dodge while on asura were not able to dodge while i was on human war too…so long story short: bad players are still gonna die with standard models and good players are still not gonna die vs asura models, but if this is gonna make ppl happy i’m totally fine with it…they’re gonna have less excuses at least.

Archaon.9524:

most of the work on dodging skills is not seeing them but KNOWING when they’re coming,

Exactly what I’ve stated in the past and one of the biggest counter statements to what this game was advertised to be without casting bars. Besides don’t act like the asura problem wasn’t compounded by adding particle spamming gear brought on by the gem store and the dip in pvp player population needed to be replaced by the “legendary” pve population.

Let me tell you the real legendary weapon for spvp was a zero added particle spamming dhuumseal weapon. Now its all about the more particle spam you have the more camouflage you have.

This isn’t about me being better at the game from this option, this is about what has been said by both bottom and top players alike since beta.

Amstel Steel.2058:

Archaon.9524:

most of the work on dodging skills is not seeing them but KNOWING when they’re coming,

Exactly what I’ve stated in the past and one of the biggest counter statements to what this game was advertised to be without casting bars. Besides don’t act like the asura problem wasn’t compounded by adding particle spamming gear brought on by the gem store and the dip in pvp player population needed to be replaced by the “legendary” pve population.

Let me tell you the real legendary weapon for spvp was a zero added particle spamming dhuumseal weapon. Now its all about the more particle spam you have the more camouflage you have.

This isn’t about me being better at the game from this option, this is about what has been said by both bottom and top players alike since beta.

Never used weapons with particle stuff…never went pve so i can’t make one and never bought worthless weapon skins for gems…all i have are all pvp skins + gw1 hom skins and noone of those has dat much particles, and as far as i see i don’t know many ppl in high level pvp actually using particle filled skins too…probably noone at all. Only ones you see running around with fancy effects are mainly pve and hotjoin heroes…and they’re gonna die no matter how many legendaries and particles they have