Guild Wars 2

Usually in pvp, build utilizing high toughness or healing power like cleric or setteler or rabid is called cheese build.

what if build uses celestial? is that still cheese?

What? I thought any low skill & high reward build is called a “cheese” build.

AlbertoUlkesh.4517:

What? I thought any low skill & high reward build is called a “cheese” build.

this

K U T M.4539:

AlbertoUlkesh.4517:

What? I thought any low skill & high reward build is called a “cheese” build.

this

Any warrior build regardless of whether he uses Soldiers Amulet or Cleric is cheese….

lol since when clerics or bunker uild called cheese LOL decap engi, hambow, spirit ranger, MM necro are cheese builds

Yay MM necros!

all engi, condi mes, condi thief, condi war, mm necro, 1 shot ele(15k firegrab in spvp), spirit ranger (kinda)

Let me enlighten you.

People call builds “cheese builds” things they find lame and deserving nerfs, thus feeling cool and accepted amongst their fellow solo-queue tryhards.
A cheese, in Starcraft 2, is a strategy that revolves around your opponent not scouting, relying on the surprise factor to rack up the win.

The builds mentionned above are quite the contrary : They work, no matter what your opponent can do (except ele kitten aderp). Calling them cheese is a way of openly accepting their ignorance of the game and their mechanics. Don’t get me wrong, we’re not arguing about meta builds being lame or OP, coz they kittening are. No, the op mentionned FIREGRAB ele. Cewl.

But unless you play for fun (in which case you wouldn’t even take time to read the forums) or are just plain bad and advocate the play-whatever-you-want-coz-if-you-scream-it-works-then-it-works policy, I don’t see how it is even remotely relevant for the overall balance discussion to list a bunch of specs to pin-point a “Cheese Badge” on them.

#hipster

KarsaiB.9475:

Let me enlighten you.

People call builds “cheese builds” things they find lame and deserving nerfs, thus feeling cool and accepted amongst their fellow solo-queue tryhards.
A cheese, in Starcraft 2, is a strategy that revolves around your opponent not scouting, relying on the surprise factor to rack up the win.

The builds mentionned above are quite the contrary : They work, no matter what your opponent can do (except ele kitten aderp). Calling them cheese is a way of openly accepting their ignorance of the game and their mechanics. Don’t get me wrong, we’re not arguing about meta builds being lame or OP, coz they kittening are. No, the op mentionned FIREGRAB ele. Cewl.

But unless you play for fun (in which case you wouldn’t even take time to read the forums) or are just plain bad and advocate the play-whatever-you-want-coz-if-you-scream-it-works-then-it-works policy, I don’t see how it is even remotely relevant for the overall balance discussion to list a bunch of specs to pin-point a “Cheese Badge” on them.

#hipster

Cheese is a gimmick, what I listed are gimmick builds to me because they are low skill or lame. The ele build is the only cheese build by your definition, it100-0’s anyone not paying attention in .75 seconds, using phoenix works too but could waste arcane power charges on other targets (although it makes the spike .3 seconds instead of .75).

I can understand why an air burst ele might be cheese (way too instant), but it has nothing to do with fire grab or, lol, arcane power.

Cheese builds are anything you don’t like =/

I love MM, must not be Cheese. Brigg said it! :}

DiogoSilva.7089:

I can understand why an air burst ele might be cheese (way too instant), but it has nothing to do with fire grab or, lol, arcane power.

Have you never 1 shot a warrior? there is a s/d build that can do it. 15k fire grab on thieves, 16k damage total from phoenix. Legit instagib

Cheese builds are any build you are using when you’ve beaten someone who isn’t good at losing graciously.

People who worry whether or not they are playing cheese builds are wasting time they could have spent winning fights, or at least getting better at them.

Zirith.6429:

all engi, condi mes, condi thief, condi war, mm necro, 1 shot ele(15k firegrab in spvp), spirit ranger (kinda)

All engis are cheese builds? I’ve seen your posts. You’ve been crying about engis for months now. You even had the nerve to say engis are more OP than warriors. The only cheese engis are decap engis.

Starting in the 1960s, the government provided processed cheese to those on welfare. The orange block was a combination of a variety of cheeses and emulsifiers that didn’t taste (or smell) all that great. Since then, Midwesterners use the expression when they want to say that something is a terrible idea.

Cheese builds are builds that rely on your opponent not having a very simple counter.

Ex. Death blossom malice signet spam thief is cheese… It only works if they have almost 0 cleansing or stand on top of you

Evade spam thief is cheese… Only works if nobody can properly time/chain CC

Perma CC guardian(or venomshare) is cheese… Only works if they have no stunbreak/cleansing

Longbow ranger is cheese… Only works if nobody walks up to him

Strange that most of the cheese I think of is thief related… Go figure

Basically there is a chance that they completely demolish their opponent because they don’t have the counter. They work fairly often against noobs, but anybody with a real build is probably fine.

Amstel Steel.2058:

Starting in the 1960s, the government provided processed cheese to those on welfare. The orange block was a combination of a variety of cheeses and emulsifiers that didn’t taste (or smell) all that great. Since then, Midwesterners use the expression when they want to say that something is a terrible idea.

That was shortly after the invention of flamethrower in WW2 that introduced the decap engi meta in trench warfare. Knocking people back in their own holes was a great way to win outnumbered fights and it was a relatively short cooldown as well. Another great feature of these soldiers at the time was that when they were badly wounded some genetical code prevented them from being poisoned or even bleed.

No such thing as cheese builds. Can’t say same about scrubs though.

saVdoom.2067:

K U T M.4539:

AlbertoUlkesh.4517:

What? I thought any low skill & high reward build is called a “cheese” build.

this

Any warrior build regardless of whether he uses Soldiers Amulet or Cleric is cheese….

Why you gotta do that? Dx QQ

I don’t agree with some of these definitions on what cheese is. While I only spectate games like StarCraft that is the game that defined “cheese” to me. My definition is a strategy that will either win you the fight quickly or will fail terribly. Something like a pure glass Warrior that goes Bull’s Charge + Frenzy + 100b could qualify because if you catch your foe with it they’ll take a huge amount of damage and may insta-gib them…or they’ll evade or stun break and you’ll be left with basically no condi removal or a way to mitigate damage long enough between the CD on the combo.

Thieves also have a lot of these builds where they have almost no utility and either kill you instantly or get horribly murdered. They don’t necessarily have to be all-in DPS builds, they just have to rely on your opponent not being able to counter your strategy. They are dependent on surprising your opponent for the most part as well.

isolatedchimp.2510:

Zirith.6429:

all engi, condi mes, condi thief, condi war, mm necro, 1 shot ele(15k firegrab in spvp), spirit ranger (kinda)

All engis are cheese builds? I’ve seen your posts. You’ve been crying about engis for months now. You even had the nerve to say engis are more OP than warriors. The only cheese engis are decap engis.

Yes all engis are lame, they have:
-2600 armor
-high prot or vigor uptime
-insane physical damage due to nades without going into power (relative to other condi specs)
-20 sec cd shield block
-an unblockable dodgeroll baiting 1200 range pull that can be canceled mid cast without putting it on cooldown
-access to 4 damaging condis with a burn proc better than dhuumfire as a master trait
-1500 range nades
-more hps than warriors (kit regen healturret toolbelt blast)
-access to either a 5 sec invuln + 5 sec stealth on a relatively short cd or a selfres

Not to mention the cooldown on their skills is so forgiving that engies just mash their nades while chilled without a care because as they finish their rotation the chilled skills are already off cooldown.

Engies main weakness is mass condi, which happens to be the weakness of basically every other class, but they still remove 12 condis a min with healing turret and conversion. In teamfights the lack of stab and condi removal is made up for by the guardian or the fact that the engy has a 300 range advantage on every other class. Also unlike other classes, the engy just has to swap to a kit to get vigor/swiftness so they can basically chain dodge rolls with their 3 main outs and survive longer than any other dps.

I’m not saying engies are ungodly broken but they are by far the strongest all around class at the moment. Sure engies cant have both high prot/vigor but they can choose to have the option of lots of dodge rolls and swiftness or high prot uptime and 20% damage reduction while cc’d.

Zirith.6429:

isolatedchimp.2510:

Zirith.6429:

all engi, condi mes, condi thief, condi war, mm necro, 1 shot ele(15k firegrab in spvp), spirit ranger (kinda)

All engis are cheese builds? I’ve seen your posts. You’ve been crying about engis for months now. You even had the nerve to say engis are more OP than warriors. The only cheese engis are decap engis.

Yes all engis are lame, they have:
-2600 armor
-high prot or vigor uptime
-insane physical damage due to nades without going into power (relative to other condi specs)
-20 sec cd shield block
-an unblockable dodgeroll baiting 1200 range pull that can be canceled mid cast without putting it on cooldown
-access to 4 damaging condis with a burn proc better than dhuumfire as a master trait
-1500 range nades
-more hps than warriors (kit regen healturret toolbelt blast)
-access to either a 5 sec invuln + 5 sec stealth on a relatively short cd or a selfres

Not to mention the cooldown on their skills is so forgiving that engies just mash their nades while chilled without a care because as they finish their rotation the chilled skills are already off cooldown.

Engies main weakness is mass condi, which happens to be the weakness of basically every other class, but they still remove 12 condis a min with healing turret and conversion. In teamfights the lack of stab and condi removal is made up for by the guardian or the fact that the engy has a 300 range advantage on every other class. Also unlike other classes, the engy just has to swap to a kit to get vigor/swiftness so they can basically chain dodge rolls with their 3 main outs and survive longer than any other dps.

I’m not saying engies are ungodly broken but they are by far the strongest all around class at the moment. Sure engies cant have both high prot/vigor but they can choose to have the option of lots of dodge rolls and swiftness or high prot uptime and 20% damage reduction while cc’d.

I’ll just use your own words against you:

Zirith.6429:

I feel like 99.999% of the complaints are from players that try to defend their poor play by calling certain things op.

You’re clearly a bad thief trying to defend their poor play against engis by calling all engis OP.

isolatedchimp.2510:

Zirith.6429:

isolatedchimp.2510:

Zirith.6429:

all engi, condi mes, condi thief, condi war, mm necro, 1 shot ele(15k firegrab in spvp), spirit ranger (kinda)

All engis are cheese builds? I’ve seen your posts. You’ve been crying about engis for months now. You even had the nerve to say engis are more OP than warriors. The only cheese engis are decap engis.

Yes all engis are lame, they have:
-2600 armor
-high prot or vigor uptime
-insane physical damage due to nades without going into power (relative to other condi specs)
-20 sec cd shield block
-an unblockable dodgeroll baiting 1200 range pull that can be canceled mid cast without putting it on cooldown
-access to 4 damaging condis with a burn proc better than dhuumfire as a master trait
-1500 range nades
-more hps than warriors (kit regen healturret toolbelt blast)
-access to either a 5 sec invuln + 5 sec stealth on a relatively short cd or a selfres

Not to mention the cooldown on their skills is so forgiving that engies just mash their nades while chilled without a care because as they finish their rotation the chilled skills are already off cooldown.

Engies main weakness is mass condi, which happens to be the weakness of basically every other class, but they still remove 12 condis a min with healing turret and conversion. In teamfights the lack of stab and condi removal is made up for by the guardian or the fact that the engy has a 300 range advantage on every other class. Also unlike other classes, the engy just has to swap to a kit to get vigor/swiftness so they can basically chain dodge rolls with their 3 main outs and survive longer than any other dps.

I’m not saying engies are ungodly broken but they are by far the strongest all around class at the moment. Sure engies cant have both high prot/vigor but they can choose to have the option of lots of dodge rolls and swiftness or high prot uptime and 20% damage reduction while cc’d.

I’ll just use your own words against you:

Zirith.6429:

I feel like 99.999% of the complaints are from players that try to defend their poor play by calling certain things op.

You’re clearly a bad thief trying to defend their poor play against engis by calling all engis OP.

I dont lose to engis lol, I just think they are stronger than they should be which is why I consider them cheesy. You really shouldnt try to prove a point by resorting to personal attacks, it lets everyone know that your argument has no weight.

Zirith.6429:

I dont lose to engis lol, I just think they are stronger than they should be which is why I consider them cheesy. You really shouldnt try to prove a point by resorting to personal attacks, it lets everyone know that your argument has no weight.

Riiiiight. You don’t lose to engineers but you complain how OP they are at every turn for months now. Other than Decap Engis, you don’t see them being problematic in any meta do you? Listing a bunch of stuff that engis can do and then pretending that all builds have access to it all isn’t an argument either. You could do that with any profession.

Anyway, I should have known better than to reply to someone who clearly has a huge bias when it comes to profession balance. But I’ve seen you do this for months now that I just couldn’t stand it anymore.

DanyK.3842:

Amstel Steel.2058:

Starting in the 1960s, the government provided processed cheese to those on welfare. The orange block was a combination of a variety of cheeses and emulsifiers that didn’t taste (or smell) all that great. Since then, Midwesterners use the expression when they want to say that something is a terrible idea.

That was shortly after the invention of flamethrower in WW2 that introduced the decap engi meta in trench warfare. Knocking people back in their own holes was a great way to win outnumbered fights and it was a relatively short cooldown as well. Another great feature of these soldiers at the time was that when they were badly wounded some genetical code prevented them from being poisoned or even bleed.

The flamethrower was invented in the first world war, but House Targaryen was using wildfire ever since their dragons died.

BurrTheKing.8571:

I don’t agree with some of these definitions on what cheese is. While I only spectate games like StarCraft that is the game that defined “cheese” to me. My definition is a strategy that will either win you the fight quickly or will fail terribly.

Cheese is profit. SC2 cheese has a flavor that produced a much larger esports than gw2. Gw2 cheese is best described by healing signet’s passive effect being so much better than its active effect that you never want to use it.

isolatedchimp.2510:

Zirith.6429:

I dont lose to engis lol, I just think they are stronger than they should be which is why I consider them cheesy. You really shouldnt try to prove a point by resorting to personal attacks, it lets everyone know that your argument has no weight.

Riiiiight. You don’t lose to engineers but you complain how OP they are at every turn for months now. Other than Decap Engis, you don’t see them being problematic in any meta do you? Listing a bunch of stuff that engis can do and then pretending that all builds have access to it all isn’t an argument either. You could do that with any profession.

Anyway, I should have known better than to reply to someone who clearly has a huge bias when it comes to profession balance. But I’ve seen you do this for months now that I just couldn’t stand it anymore.

Engies have been stronger than average since beta, there are 2 main builds that arnt decap which have everything I listed, I get that you are a mad for some reason and that sucks but at least bring some facts to the table.

Cheese is when you have an extremely low skill ceiling with really high results. Such as hambow warrior or warriors in general. Or something like MM necro that is extremely passive yet extremely effective. I mean most, if not all, the meta builds currently are like this. (Hambow, S/P Thief, Decap Engi, Spirit Ranger, MM Necro, etc.)

Classes should be balanced like the Ele, which has a high skill ceiling to be effective.

saVdoom.2067:

K U T M.4539:

AlbertoUlkesh.4517:

What? I thought any low skill & high reward build is called a “cheese” build.

this

Any warrior build regardless of whether he uses Soldiers Amulet or Cleric is cheese….

Unless ANet nerfs them back to uselessness.