Guild Wars 2

With all the new elite specs and changes, what are your thoughts on the necro/reaper’s starting lifeforce?

There are three areas I would like feedback on.

1) Standard PvP maps (the old version)
2) New PvP maps (the new version where you kill the Lord)
3) 1vs1 duels

What lifeforce should a necro be allowed to start with, if any?
Should it still remain at zero as per pre-HoT?

my thoughts:

1) start with 20% lifeforce
2) start with 10% lifeforce
3) start with 50% lifeforce

They could start with -50%.

At least theres a big difference in a duel with a reaper starting with 0 and one with 30-50%, thats all ill say.

20% seems to be the standard preference across Necros and non-Necros i think.

TBH anything would be better than nothing – it’s like playing with a handicap at the start of every match.

20% across the board. Starting at 0 is pretty rough.

Development staff have addressed this some time ago. Their response was that necro, much like warrior has multiple traits to fill life force/adrenaline. They felt that the core mechanics of each profession need to have a parity of sorts. It was for these reasons they don’t start necro’s with life force or warriors with adrenaline. However is saying that, they then went and nerfed adrenaline. In short, they’re happy with life force how it is.

takes 2 seconds from a reaper to go from 0-100% life force anyways

Rezzet.3614:

takes 2 seconds from a reaper to go from 0-100% life force anyways

That i would say depends heavily on the build. I dont think a condi reaper is able to do that.

Rezzet.3614:

takes 2 seconds from a reaper to go from 0-100% life force anyways

Only if entire enemy fear Reaper so much they jump off cliff and die.

Morwath.9817:

Rezzet.3614:

takes 2 seconds from a reaper to go from 0-100% life force anyways

Only if entire enemy fear Reaper so much they jump off cliff and die.

I dont think that would you givw 100% lf. Lf gain on death is roughly 10~11%. So that would be 0% to 50%….

I think like warrior it is fair for necro to start with little. Class has the potential to be tanky enough, and has several skills to fill the life force. It is a good f skill. Unlike rangers glue eating pet skills.

necros should have 0 to start off with.

The better necros in the game would have a huge advantage. Many of them are already elite level point holders and to give them more LF would only make them stronger which seems odd for a elite level class already.

Starting at 0 is like having one of my weapons on cooldown at the start of a fight. Its pretty bad, and one of the main reasons we have to take certain skills. If I had my way, it’d be 50%… But obviously that is ridiculous, and 30% would be more “balanced”.

I’d love to see the QQ if mesmers had all their shatters go on full cool down at the start of the match or guardians have all their virtues at the start of the match, that is the equivalent. What good is it having ‘so many skills that generate life force’ when it takes absolutely ages if you are not a reaper and pretty much pigeonholes you into soul reaping.

honestly staying at zero is not the way to go in the new HOT environment.
At least 10% to flash in to use some skill is fairer…

as a recently turned reaper player, i prefer 0% as starting as it would be fair since life force do not degenerate unlike adrenaline.

And then you find the reaper mid game running around with 100% life force.. I think the way it is, is fine. Means that they have to be careful in the initial engage as a trade off to becoming almost unstoppable later on

Rezzet.3614:

takes 2 seconds from a reaper to go from 0-100% life force anyways

and what game are you playing?mario carts?

I have been saying for quite some time that they need to overhaul life force generation & degeneration so it is more fluid.

By this I mean get rid of natural degeneration of life force while in shroud & replace it with each ability costing a set amount of life force while in shroud.

After that they can adjust life force generation by making each weapon ability generate a set amount of life force when outside of shroud.

This would make life force a bit more akin to rev’s mist energy in that it would be easier to generate but also easier to use it all up if your not careful.

Just kittening lol..Give warriors full adren to start off with aswell with no degeneration and no degen on a missed burst…

I always played necro and since HoT it is my main. I never felt handicapped because I started with 0 LF. If I know I don’t have it built up I play accordingly and even if I had it I wouldn’t insta RS on the first target I find.

As a necro I go for mid most times (good teamfighter and stuff) and there building up LF isn’t really hard.

If it stays at 0 I don’t mind and if they change it I’ll say “thank you”.

Caedmon.6798:

Just kittening lol..Give warriors full adren to start off with aswell with no degeneration and no degen on a missed burst…

Sure if we change lifeforce generation so that all weapon skills give life force and some skills can give 100% life force with a single button, remind you of anything?

Ok then life-force would not give you a second life bar, only a chance to use your burst skill.

Life-force is way more powerful than a pesky little thing called adrenaline. What I do not understand is why would anyone complain about life force. It works fine, it is powerful. With the insane chill damage necros are on the board again. And it is pretty easy to generate life force.

You are a bloody master of the dead and undead, act like it.

Whats really annoying with soloQ teams sometimes is when no one goes to cap home and I w/ zero LF have to do it….only to be greeted with 2 incoming opponents. FML.

Vapour.7348:

Whats really annoying with soloQ teams sometimes is when no one goes to cap home and I w/ zero LF have to do it….only to be greeted with 2 incoming opponents. FML.

2 AutoAttacks with Dagger on both of them + Swarm and they’re gonna cry.

alain.1659:

Ok then life-force would not give you a second life bar, only a chance to use your burst skill.

Life-force is way more powerful than a pesky little thing called adrenaline. What I do not understand is why would anyone complain about life force. It works fine, it is powerful. With the insane chill damage necros are on the board again. And it is pretty easy to generate life force.

You are a bloody master of the dead and undead, act like it.

LF is way more powerful than adrenaline, but I cant imagine a necro beating a warr if none of them uses thei F1. Necro F1 is one of the bests ingame, but also Necro without his F1 is one of the weaker profs

alain.1659:

Ok then life-force would not give you a second life bar, only a chance to use your burst skill.

Life-force is way more powerful than a pesky little thing called adrenaline. What I do not understand is why would anyone complain about life force. It works fine, it is powerful. With the insane chill damage necros are on the board again. And it is pretty easy to generate life force.

You are a bloody master of the dead and undead, act like it.

Last I checked, a Warrior is not totally reliant on adrenaline for defense.

Krysard.1364:

alain.1659:

Ok then life-force would not give you a second life bar, only a chance to use your burst skill.

Life-force is way more powerful than a pesky little thing called adrenaline. What I do not understand is why would anyone complain about life force. It works fine, it is powerful. With the insane chill damage necros are on the board again. And it is pretty easy to generate life force.

You are a bloody master of the dead and undead, act like it.

LF is way more powerful than adrenaline, but I cant imagine a necro beating a warr if none of them uses thei F1. Necro F1 is one of the bests ingame, but also Necro without his F1 is one of the weaker profs

There is no best ingame or whatever you claim there to be.

Would love to see..

-OUT OF COMBAT ONLY-
Auto regen LF by 1% / sec, only while under < 20%

Everywhere: pvp, pve, wvw, pub, home.

Absolutely no game breaking. Absolutely <3 <3 <3

20% would be amazing, 10% would even be enough. Just enough to be able to use shroud at all. We’re locked out of a stupid amount of our traits and abilities with 0%.
Foot in the grave, transfusion, Weakening shroud, and Spiteful spirit. 4 of our GRANDMASTER traits that completely rely on having atleast 10% shroud, all useless when you step into that first fight.

Sabre.8627:

20% would be amazing, 10% would even be enough. Just enough to be able to use shroud at all. We’re locked out of a stupid amount of our traits and abilities with 0%.
Foot in the grave, transfusion, Weakening shroud, and Spiteful spirit. 4 of our GRANDMASTER traits that completely rely on having atleast 10% shroud, all useless when you step into that first fight.

You could add few GMs: Unholy Martyr, Unholy Sanctuary, Dhumfire, Death Perception.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

alain.1659:

Ok then life-force would not give you a second life bar, only a chance to use your burst skill.

Life-force is way more powerful than a pesky little thing called adrenaline. What I do not understand is why would anyone complain about life force. It works fine, it is powerful. With the insane chill damage necros are on the board again. And it is pretty easy to generate life force.

You are a bloody master of the dead and undead, act like it.

Last I checked, a Warrior is not totally reliant on adrenaline for defense.

Correct. But neither necro. Have a tanky build an voila! You can survive. Lf is a big big big bonus to that. And for my opinion necro and especially reaper is way more dangerous than warrior.

Tao.1234:

Krysard.1364:

alain.1659:

Ok then life-force would not give you a second life bar, only a chance to use your burst skill.

Life-force is way more powerful than a pesky little thing called adrenaline. What I do not understand is why would anyone complain about life force. It works fine, it is powerful. With the insane chill damage necros are on the board again. And it is pretty easy to generate life force.

You are a bloody master of the dead and undead, act like it.

LF is way more powerful than adrenaline, but I cant imagine a necro beating a warr if none of them uses thei F1. Necro F1 is one of the bests ingame, but also Necro without his F1 is one of the weaker profs

There is no best ingame or whatever you claim there to be.

Play with a guardian without using virtues, and a necro without using DS. Of course F skills are tied to traits that can make them better or not, but I’m pretty sure my point is clear

Morwath.9817:

Sabre.8627:

20% would be amazing, 10% would even be enough. Just enough to be able to use shroud at all. We’re locked out of a stupid amount of our traits and abilities with 0%.
Foot in the grave, transfusion, Weakening shroud, and Spiteful spirit. 4 of our GRANDMASTER traits that completely rely on having atleast 10% shroud, all useless when you step into that first fight.

You could add few GMs: Unholy Martyr, Unholy Sanctuary, Dhumfire, Death Perception.

Those all came to mind, but they all rely more on sitting in shroud for longer periods, they don’t really make sense in the argument to start with 10%, 20%, etc. The ones I listed, you literally just need the 10% to flash shroud to get the full use out of it.

20% or increase LF generation for all weapons.

Krysard.1364:

Tao.1234:

Krysard.1364:

alain.1659:

Ok then life-force would not give you a second life bar, only a chance to use your burst skill.

Life-force is way more powerful than a pesky little thing called adrenaline. What I do not understand is why would anyone complain about life force. It works fine, it is powerful. With the insane chill damage necros are on the board again. And it is pretty easy to generate life force.

You are a bloody master of the dead and undead, act like it.

LF is way more powerful than adrenaline, but I cant imagine a necro beating a warr if none of them uses thei F1. Necro F1 is one of the bests ingame, but also Necro without his F1 is one of the weaker profs

There is no best ingame or whatever you claim there to be.

Play with a guardian without using virtues, and a necro without using DS. Of course F skills are tied to traits that can make them better or not, but I’m pretty sure my point is clear

Since you’re not so bright then gotta explain I guess.

Necro is Shroud dependent, just like Warrior is Burst dependent or just like Engineer is Tool Belt dependent or even just like Mesmer is Shatter/Clone dependent etc etc etc.

Classes are built around their special skills and those skills are built around their classes.

And therefore, there is no “Shroud is Best”, “Shatter is Best”, “Tool Belt is better than Virtues” or whatever you claim anything to be.

Those are class mechanics adjusted to class design and properly utilized can bring any class to top.

All classes have their mechanics balanced to one another and stand at the same place.

Balance problem lies within certain values not class mechanics.

Deal with it.

Dagger main hand + Khylo = hwinnnnnn

Krysard.1364:

alain.1659:

Ok then life-force would not give you a second life bar, only a chance to use your burst skill.

Life-force is way more powerful than a pesky little thing called adrenaline. What I do not understand is why would anyone complain about life force. It works fine, it is powerful. With the insane chill damage necros are on the board again. And it is pretty easy to generate life force.

You are a bloody master of the dead and undead, act like it.

LF is way more powerful than adrenaline, but I cant imagine a necro beating a warr if none of them uses thei F1. Necro F1 is one of the bests ingame, but also Necro without his F1 is one of the weaker profs

You can’t compare the two in terms of independent power, it doesn’t work like that. The classes are completely different and are balanced differently.
Necro’s main source of damage comes from utilities and from Shroud, where Warrior’s damage comes from mainly weapon skills.
Since Necromancers have shroud, they are not allowed to have any blocks, evades, or invulnerability. A warrior has access to all of these and they are not limited by adrenaline in any way.

If you play necro and try to enter a teamfight at the start of the game, you might as well have just akitten at spawn, because if the enemy team has any idea how to lock down targets, they will burst and end you too instantly. Why do you think Abj always sends Nos home first for most opening splits?

Furthermore, why do druids get full Cele Avatar Force at the start of the game while necromancers have to start out with 0% life force? They’re both sustain mechanics for each of the classes, so this disparity is troubling to me.

Tao.1234:

Krysard.1364:

Tao.1234:

Krysard.1364:

alain.1659:

Ok then life-force would not give you a second life bar, only a chance to use your burst skill.

Life-force is way more powerful than a pesky little thing called adrenaline. What I do not understand is why would anyone complain about life force. It works fine, it is powerful. With the insane chill damage necros are on the board again. And it is pretty easy to generate life force.

You are a bloody master of the dead and undead, act like it.

LF is way more powerful than adrenaline, but I cant imagine a necro beating a warr if none of them uses thei F1. Necro F1 is one of the bests ingame, but also Necro without his F1 is one of the weaker profs

There is no best ingame or whatever you claim there to be.

Play with a guardian without using virtues, and a necro without using DS. Of course F skills are tied to traits that can make them better or not, but I’m pretty sure my point is clear

Since you’re not so bright then gotta explain I guess.

Necro is Shroud dependent, just like Warrior is Burst dependent or just like Engineer is Tool Belt dependent or even just like Mesmer is Shatter/Clone dependent etc etc etc.

Classes are built around their special skills and those skills are built around their classes.

And therefore, there is no “Shroud is Best”, “Shatter is Best”, “Tool Belt is better than Virtues” or whatever you claim anything to be.

Those are class mechanics adjusted to class design and properly utilized can bring any class to top.

All classes have their mechanics balanced to one another and stand at the same place.

Balance problem lies within certain values not class mechanics.

Deal with it.

People was complaining about the fact that adrenaline decreases when ooc, while this doesnt happens with LF, so LF has “improved” mechanics than adrenaline. This happens for the only reason that necros are more dependant of LF than wars of adrenaline. Of course traited F’s can give more or less than others ingame, so you cant do a ral ranking about which ones are better or worse, but that wasnt my intention at all, just saying that some profs have less room in order to do stuff than others without their F, but when they have it, it makes a huge difference

Sabre.8627:

and they are not limited by adrenaline in any way.

You got it, thats why LF is an “improved” adrenaline when refilled, cause necros are limited by it

In fact life force needs a nerf, then you can have a starting life force.

and also, comparing adrenaline to life force is super dumb. Life force gives you extra million sustain and extra 5 skills for you to spam while adrenaline only just provide you one skill to use and its thousand times harder to gain compare to life force now.

Life force tankiness needs to be nerf, life force regeneration needs to be nerf, then, we will talk about starting with certain percentage of life force.

Necros shouldn’t be able to maintain more than 50% life force out of combat. And also remove stacking life force on BUILDINGS(new stronghold map, khylo, skyhammer) Thieves can get revealed by hitting structures or can use cloak and dagger on them to get stealth. After fixing these necros could get like 10% starting lifeforce.

Anastasis.7258:

In fact life force needs a nerf, then you can have a starting life force.

and also, comparing adrenaline to life force is super dumb. Life force gives you extra million sustain and extra 5 skills for you to spam while adrenaline only just provide you one skill to use and its thousand times harder to gain compare to life force now.

Life force tankiness needs to be nerf, life force regeneration needs to be nerf, then, we will talk about starting with certain percentage of life force.

So, you agree that LF is better than adrenaline, that was my point. Also, I agree about an ooc 20% LF, so you can avoid playing against a 0/100 LF necro, which can make a huge difference

Kicker.8203:

Necros shouldn’t be able to maintain more than 50% life force out of combat. And also remove stacking life force on BUILDINGS(new stronghold map, khylo, skyhammer) Thieves can get revealed by hitting structures or can use cloak and dagger on them to get stealth. After fixing these necros could get like 10% starting lifeforce.

^

Krysard.1364:

Sabre.8627:

and they are not limited by adrenaline in any way.

You got it, thats why LF is an “improved” adrenaline when refilled, cause necros are limited by it

Yes, are we just pointing out the obvious at this point? I’m confused at to what your point is and where you stand regarding the thread.
Necro and warrior both start with 0% of their resource mechanic. The difference is that necro relies much more heavily on this resource than a warrior, and starting a match with 0% locks away a huge chunk of their class and builds. Warrior doesn’t suffer from this.

Necros should start at zero because warriors start at zero Adrenaline. Stop crying necros. Be happy you don’t lose all of your life force the second you leave combat or miss a skill.

Lets see. Warriors need adrenaline for healing, Condi clearing, CC, Damage and damage sounds like they need it for everything good try sabre. Now also they can’t use their elite without full adrenaline. So don’t complain.

Sabre.8627:

Krysard.1364:

Sabre.8627:

and they are not limited by adrenaline in any way.

You got it, thats why LF is an “improved” adrenaline when refilled, cause necros are limited by it

Yes, are we just pointing out the obvious at this point? I’m confused at to what your point is and where you stand regarding the thread.
Necro and warrior both start with 0% of their resource mechanic. The difference is that necro relies much more heavily on this resource than a warrior, and starting a match with 0% locks away a huge chunk of their class and builds. Warrior doesn’t suffer from this.

Just pointing what I was trying to say when saying that necro F is more powerful than warr F, necros have less room without LF but when they have it, is an improved version

Sabre.8627:

Krysard.1364:

Sabre.8627:

and they are not limited by adrenaline in any way.

You got it, thats why LF is an “improved” adrenaline when refilled, cause necros are limited by it

Yes, are we just pointing out the obvious at this point? I’m confused at to what your point is and where you stand regarding the thread.
Necro and warrior both start with 0% of their resource mechanic. The difference is that necro relies much more heavily on this resource than a warrior, and starting a match with 0% locks away a huge chunk of their class and builds. Warrior doesn’t suffer from this.

You are so wrong, please stop.
Warrior relies on adrenaline way harder than you think, and that’s the reason why warrior is in trash-tier now because the adrenaline mechanic is really freaking bad.

Nerco relies much more heavily on this resource? wrong, and the fact nerco’s life force mechanic is 100000x better than warrior’s adrenaline mechanic.

Krysard.1364:

Anastasis.7258:

In fact life force needs a nerf, then you can have a starting life force.

and also, comparing adrenaline to life force is super dumb. Life force gives you extra million sustain and extra 5 skills for you to spam while adrenaline only just provide you one skill to use and its thousand times harder to gain compare to life force now.

Life force tankiness needs to be nerf, life force regeneration needs to be nerf, then, we will talk about starting with certain percentage of life force.

So, you agree that LF is better than adrenaline, that was my point. Also, I agree about an ooc 20% LF, so you can avoid playing against a 0/100 LF necro, which can make a huge difference

This is a really good suggestion on balancing nerco/reapers. When they out of combat, always reset the life force to 20%. This will avoid so many OP part of Nerco/Reaper.

Also, their spectral armor needs to be nerfed from 8% life force to 5%. and other bugs such as warhorn #5 dagger #1 gaining life force from Khylo’s structures/building/clock tower point.

Too bad, with such a good suggestion, we will never see this happen because Anet Devs barely listen to us anymore, they only listen to some high level WTS pvp team.