Guild Wars 2

jportell.2197:

So they are gonna make gs and confusing images piercing, Weak auto attack for one, obvious animation for the other… AND they are nerfing shatters….. While the GS #4 is still bugged and they have made 0 acknowledgement of that fudge up…. Someone on my guild that never plays Mesmer went and tested the GS phantasm her quote “its buggy…. Its wayyyyy buggy….” And yet here mesmers are still called OP and can’t play and blah blah blah…

Youre insane to cry about mesmers. Or just really really bad in which case no amount of buffs will help you.

They woudl have to be different sotg. Its already an hour long and barely covers what spvp needs to cover.

Also i dont want anyone taking away from our format ! ><

Stop attacking the devs personally. Does nothing to contribute to the discussion. We care about the information not the informant.

I am concerned about the direction of the game after this SToG address. Why is so much time and effort being put into tech like beam interaction and spectating hot joins, when other elements in the game are of such greater importance. Development of new mechanics and systems must be incredibly time consuming and involving, why focus on such insignificant aspects of the game? It seems like every time a good idea or subject gets brought up, the answer is “its in the works but its on down the road.” I don’t think things like custom arenas, spectator modes, or beam interaction tech is going to do anything to immediately impact the health and popularity of this game. IMO more meetings need to be about prioritizing projects and organizing a direction for SPvP than whether or not evading while immobilized is o.k.

The contradictory nature of the address also baffled me. Balance talk went from “we cant tweak this because it would throw the whole balance we have been working for” to things like “traits and weapons need some help and build diversity needs to be increased for almost every class”. Are you happy with what we have or are you reworking it?? Your current message is very ambiguous

The last thing I want to point out about the SToG address is the overwhelming incompetence of the staff and their answers. If your in a sales pitch to your biggest client, you don’t read through notes as if you don’t know without looking. You don’t argue with the customers saying ignorant things like “I’ve never seen an Ele on the other team on Spirit Watch and thought the game is over. You don’t have to run the ball to win”. The only person with any professionalism and expertise was Johnathan Sharp. Karl and the other guy came off as completely uninformed and unprofessional (IMO). I very much like that you guys take time out of your busy schedule to do the SToG address but maybe prepare a bit better and understand that you are trying to impress your audience, not just take part in a boring 1 &1/2 hour Q and A session.

tldr;
stop wasting time developing stuff that doesn’t help the game currently
make up your minds and set a direction for SPvP
know your stuff and impress us, don’t give us a reason to bust your chops

I would like to recommend that Grouch rotate the community representatives to encompass all classes. What we had with 2 Mesmer mains representing lead to the only real indepth discussion taking place.. about mesmers, an already strong and popular class.

It would make much more sense for weaker pvp classes to represent so some actual discussion can take place during their segments.
Like really, I was begging for Xeph or Nero so say anything when they were speaking about buffing Rampage, Kick and Banners.

They do change up who gets interviewed jzaku. I’d like to see an engy main do it ! =).
Also someone who’s a warrior.

though warrior+engy main might be too much for the devs =).

I play various of professions in pvp, however my most concern is warrior profession because that’s my main.

I’m quite disappointed with the results I heard what warriors will be receiving in the next patch and from what I’m understanding this patch is all about support builds for warriors.

• Banners buff
• Kick ability can be used while moving
• Rampage getting tweaked

That’s nice that they’re receiving those buffs, but in reality many warriors will rarely use Banners unless a guild member or teammate really wants one on the team. Not every warrior wants to be a support banner and shout build to be useful for the team. I’m sure more can be done and probably in time it will.

As for the kick ability even though it’s getting a bit more flavor to be useable while moving. I’m pretty sure not many warriors will use it in pvp when they have better options to choose over it just like those who don’t wishes to use banners.

So warriors are getting some condition removals abilities or traits I’m guessing which is nice to hear, but for the developers to say they don’t want to make them too powerful had me confused.

What did they mean by that? That phrase not make them too powerful? On what condition removals? or builds? If I am mistaken if warriors were too powerful like that then even handicap builds like DW weapons will be viable in pvp. For an example would you allow a DW maces swap with DW axes warrior on a Tpvp team? I highly doubt it. For my understanding of too powerful means all builds are viable even if its 20/0/20//30 using any sigil, runes sets, and weapon combos.

Also from the video Nero Vitus from JBUO NA said that thieves have weak builds such as condition since it only focuses on bleeds which can be removed easily depending on the profession they’re fighting and with the upcoming stealth nerf they will have more difficulties = more challenges on their part. However back on topic with the bleed focus build warriors have that issue as well especially if they’re pure condition build using DW swords, longbow or rifle. Theirs as well gets removed easily in pvp. To sum it all up both thief and warriors conditions builds should be looked at and provide more conditions than just bleeds since the raw damage is low coming from their weapons.

For now that’s all I want to say about warriors until I see further investment on that profession that can open up more variety on builds than their usual support, burst dps build using limited weapons.

You guys @ Anet got the creativity and versatility potential to make all professions fun to play so don’t hold back. Just do it because deeply inside I know all these classes can do a bit more than what they can do now.

Thanks for the SOTG video to keep us posted on this game progress.

Brutalistik.6473:

text

Don’t forget their brief chat about people being pigeon-holed into using certain weapons/utilities because they’re way too good -

And then not mentioning how GS is almost indisputably the best weapon for everything warrior related. It’s gotten so bad that people are constantly referring to warrior as if GS was inbuilt into the class.

I’m starting to think its impossible for larger companies to develop good PvP for a very simple reason: they are not good players and don’t understand the intricasies of what’s required for a healthy system. And why should they. They are hired based on experience and coding skills not on PvP acumen.

This is why I believe interaction with high level players in the community is so important. They have the knowledge and are happy to help for free. Its a shame no ones willing to swallow enough pride for that to happen

Acelerion.6820:

I’m starting to think its impossible for larger companies to develop good PvP for a very simple reason: they are not good players and don’t understand the intricasies of what’s required for a healthy system. And why should they. They are hired based on experience and coding skills not on PvP acumen.

This is why I believe interaction with high level players in the community is so important. They have the knowledge and are happy to help for free. Its a shame no ones willing to swallow enough pride for that to happen

They do mention that they have a bunch of “internal testers” whom they trust above all else

I’m pretty sure they have some kind of terrible meta going on that doesn’t reflect the actual meta at all.

“No Ele changes coming next patch”
“Warriors are close to becoming an unstoppable beast”
“Thieves need more mobility”
“Necromancer has a lot of viable builds”
“Guardians are perfect the way they are”

Jzaku.9765:

“Thieves need more mobility”
“Necromancer has a lot of viable builds”

-They said that thieves mobility needs to be redistributed, and not just have shortbow be the greatest weapon ever
-Necros do have a lot of playable builds

Jzaku.9765:

“Necromancer has a lot of viable builds”

They do…

You may want to play the game more than post.

Jzaku.9765:

They do mention that they have a bunch of “internal testers” whom they trust above all else

I’m pretty sure they have some kind of terrible meta going on that doesn’t reflect the actual meta at all.

“No Ele changes coming next patch”
“Warriors are close to becoming an unstoppable beast”
“Thieves need more mobility”
“Necromancer has a lot of viable builds”
“Guardians are perfect the way they are”

Actually

This is the exact meta you would have if your internal testers were all complete noobs.

It would explain a lot about the difference between what is on live servers and what devs refer to when they use the phrase: “what we see internally”.

mbh.8301:

Jzaku.9765:

“Thieves need more mobility”
“Necromancer has a lot of viable builds”

-They said that thieves mobility needs to be redistributed, and not just have shortbow be the greatest weapon ever
-Necros do have a lot of playable builds

Why do they need to redistribute thief mobility?

Steal – 900 range
SB – 900 range IA
D/D – 450 range HS
D/P – 450 range HS and 900 range SS
S/X – 600 range IS
P/D – 600 range SS (don’t remember the exact range)
P/P – No mobility needed since it is a range weapon. Same could be said for SB and P/D

So all weapon sets has some form of mobility. This does not include heal and utilities.

I not trying to complain about Anet giving us a buff but they’re buffing the wrong thing here.

I just watched the SOTG again.

I think I see the issue.

Tyler and Jon are both strong people. They show their opinions clearly (esp Jon) and have a clear line of thinking.

Karl doesn’t. I think he would get pushed around a lot in the office, and he seems almost like a sidekick.

The “class balance guy” needs to be a strong personal presence and able to put his foot down on class balance issues – but also have the scope and humility to listen to player feedback and be able to make real changes based on that player feedback.

He needs to be more on the pulse of how top end tournaments are being played than anyone else, with a keen eye for abilities and traitlines that are out of line, either being too weak or too strong.

I hope Karl is aware that this is what he needs to offer going forward, and maybe Jon and Tyler need to help support him and give him more breathing space to expand into.

xiv that was a good post

To those that didn’t like how the discussion was focused on balance…

I disagree. I think balance is pretty much the most important thing they should be talking about now. Why? Because its pointless to talk about features.

We know what features they’re working on, they’ve been working on them for months now. They can’t say when they’ll be ready. They can’t give details on how they’ll work exactly (they were a bit more forthcoming this time at least.) If the SOTG talks try to ask them about features, we’ll just get the same dot points we’ve been getting all this time.

As for asking about new features, you’re going to get the same answer every time too – “Sure, we can take a look at that…” (ie. when all the current features are finally out.) So pretty meaningless.

Balance is more than just inter-class balance (aka Ele is OP!! etc.) What I’m more interested about is how are they planning on making underused skills and traits more viable? What changes are they going to do to improve build variety?

I’m interested in these things because they will allow me to play my characters in new and different ways. In a game where all the maps are conquest, being able to do different builds and classes (instant PvP characters helps a lot here too, unlike some other games) is a much bigger part of variety than game modes and maps.

I’m also interested in balance because I feel like, if ANet just spends a bit more time and effort on it, then it could make very large amounts of gameplay improvements with relatively little dev resources. Unlike new content or new features, a lot of balance can be done with just number tweaks or moving traits around.

Moving forwards, I’d really like future SOTGs to not just ask devs about balance, but really start a dialogue with them. Bring up suggestions on what we’d like to see, specific and detailed. I’d like the devs to meet us halfway as well – tell us, “we tried that, and this is what happened” or “we’re worried about this happening” or, “we’ll put it on the test server and let you know how it turns out.” or “that’s a great idea and I’m going to put it into the game tomorrow.”

Balance is the heart of any competitive game, because it defines the choices you have to make, which pretty much is the definition of gameplay. It’s much more than what’s OP and what’s not, its about how we can get interesting choices before and during a game.

So, I watched the sotg, and I’ve read through this entire post. Facinating information.

I stopped playing GW2 about 3 months ago due to loosing interest after the december patch. I was pretty maxed out on PVE on my warrior. And had alot of fun running wvw with EMP on Jade Quarry (from what I understand one of the best wvw focused guilds on the top rated wvw server) and did a fair ammount of spvp, mostly hotjoins cause lets face it, good luck being any good with a warrior when your skill level is only so-so and it being tough to get a team together when you just play casually.

I’ve been watching these forums, reading dev interviews, going over patch notes, looking for a reason to come back. And i’ve yet to find anything compelling enough to do the trick. Sounds like they are inching closer and closer to having the tools to make spvp more enjoyable but I fear by the time it happens I’ll have lost interest completely and won’t even be checking the forums anymore.

But, until that time comes I’ll be keeping tabs on the game. And seeing that there are passionate players out there fighting for the changes the game needs to be more engaging and competitive keeps me hopefull.

xiv.7136:

Jzaku.9765:

They do mention that they have a bunch of “internal testers” whom they trust above all else

I’m pretty sure they have some kind of terrible meta going on that doesn’t reflect the actual meta at all.

“No Ele changes coming next patch”
“Warriors are close to becoming an unstoppable beast”
“Thieves need more mobility”
“Necromancer has a lot of viable builds”
“Guardians are perfect the way they are”

Actually

This is the exact meta you would have if your internal testers were all complete noobs.

It would explain a lot about the difference between what is on live servers and what devs refer to when they use the phrase: “what we see internally”.

I fear this is the exact problem. There’s a wall in between the reality of what happens in game and what the devs actually think happen. The only thing to help them scale that wall are internal testers or a PTR, preferably both.

Remember the 20+ stacks of might on mesmer shatter in early january? I guess the testers figured that was a good idea…

Whenever they decide to do there ranking system. Be sure to allow others see how many times they disconnect, or leave/ logout in tournament game.

I’ve had the bad run of luck the last couple of days and had a couple 4v5s in a row, since start of game and then some people just logout and it becomes 3v5. I don’t mind it every now and then although it frustrates me, but when I get it back to back to back, that ticks me off.

Great…..necromancer not getting a buff and banner warriors…..wait why. WHY

I get the “team play” aspect, but really…..its not the thing you need to work with warrior. How about battle standard getting a lower cooldown than many of the signets that res the exact same amount of people without that cast time?!

Ostricheggs.3742:

Remember the 20+ stacks of might on mesmer shatter in early january? I guess the testers figured that was a good idea…

That felt more like a mistake to me. At that patch, they have buffed an elementalist’s might trait to last (1 stack of) 10s instead of 5s, and buffed that mesmer’s might trait to give 3 stacks (!!!) of 10s instead of (1 stack of) 5s. When they nerfed it back, they removed the stacks, making it similar to the elementalist’s buffed trait.

It made no sense why they would buff a trait to be two times stronger, and then buff another similar trait to be SIX times stronger.

My guess is that they were experimenting with different versions, increasing stacks or increasing duration, and due to an oversight, the mesmer’s trait ended up being unintionally buffed both ways.

DiogoSilva.7089:

Ostricheggs.3742:

Remember the 20+ stacks of might on mesmer shatter in early january? I guess the testers figured that was a good idea…

That felt more like a mistake to me. At that patch, they have buffed an elementalist’s might trait to last (1 stack of) 10s instead of 5s, and buffed that mesmer’s might trait to give 3 stacks (!!!) of 10s instead of (1 stack of) 5s. When they nerfed it back, they removed the stacks, making it similar to the elementalist’s buffed trait.

It made no sense why they would buff a trait to be two times stronger, and then buff another similar trait to be SIX times stronger.

My guess is that they were experimenting with different versions, increasing stacks or increasing duration, and due to an oversight, the mesmer’s trait ended up being unintionally buffed both ways.

If that was the case then the meta took a big hit and something should have been fixed in a day. Either way, the game became worse because of a terrible mistake that should have never happened, intended or unintended it should have been caught and fixed quicker than it was, preferably before it hit live.

nerva.7940:

jportell.2197:

So they are gonna make gs and confusing images piercing, Weak auto attack for one, obvious animation for the other… AND they are nerfing shatters….. While the GS #4 is still bugged and they have made 0 acknowledgement of that fudge up…. Someone on my guild that never plays Mesmer went and tested the GS phantasm her quote “its buggy…. Its wayyyyy buggy….” And yet here mesmers are still called OP and can’t play and blah blah blah…

Youre insane to cry about mesmers. Or just really really bad in which case no amount of buffs will help you.

Actually if you read what I wrote. I am more concerned about the number of bugs that will be introduced with these “buffs”. I am also concerned that they are just going to nerf shatter damage across the board and then say “Well because these two buffs are there shattering is now X% less effective.” In nearly every patch that something is touched on the Mesmer something completely unrelated gets bugged out. This recent patch is an amazing Case in Point… They messed with the torch mainly as far as weapons go… But by adjusting the prestige… Somehow the Phantasmal Berserker got bugged out and now hits for 1 of the 4 attacks stated in the tooltip… This is unacceptable. The cancelling bug on the prestige that would allow mesmers to perma stealth was hot fixed within 48 hours… And here we are almost to the next patch and all we have from them is an “Okay thanks for telling us” with no other indication that an effort to fix it is being made… This significantly hurts DPS from the GS and makes catching runners next to impossible since the cripple stacked in duration we relied on the phantasm hitting multiple times so we (slowest class) could have some sort of chance to catch that thief/ele/ranger/bulls rush warrior. So you see the difference between what I said and what you read into? If not they have remedial English for a reason.

I like the fact that there is a SoTG, but it doesn’t seem necessary if PTR notes are made available to the public. I’m glad the devs take the time to participate, but as a moderator, Grouch should be more proactive in facilitating the questions instead of letting the devs start the discussion. Grouch should also be better prepared with questions derived from the forums. Formulating questions for the most pressing issues give the devs direction. Just changing topics and telling the devs to discuss what they want to discuss isn’t going to cut it. The ele discussion was a good example of bad moderation. I’m glad that Xeph brought up some of the big issues with them and keeping the devs from avoiding the topic of ele imbalance, but that should be Grouch’s responsibility as the moderator. How the devs feel about the professions isn’t how we feel and the majority of the issues are being swept under the rug.

Grouch: “Well I kinda wanna jump subjects here…we want a little road map of where the professions are heading…so we’ll start with the elementalist….”

pause…

Karl: “Start off with the elementalist….right now uh…they only have one specific build…uh…”

I want a meaningful discussion on what the pvp community feels about eles, not what the devs feel. Grouch should have asked them directly about their burst, healing, and mobility with examples given from Xeph and Nero, and then see what the devs have to say about said issue. The same goes for all professions. It’s not hard to skim the forums and see what the main problems are with each class are just by looking at the post titles.

SuperHaze.4210:

I like the fact that there is a SoTG, but it doesn’t seem necessary if PTR notes are made available to the public. I’m glad the devs take the time to participate, but as a moderator, Grouch should be more proactive in facilitating the questions instead of letting the devs start the discussion. Grouch should also be better prepared with questions derived from the forums. Formulating questions for the most pressing issues give the devs direction. Just changing topics and telling the devs to discuss what they want to discuss isn’t going to cut it. The ele discussion was a good example of bad moderation. I’m glad that Xeph brought up some of the big issues with them and keeping the devs from avoiding the topic of ele imbalance, but that should be Grouch’s responsibility as the moderator. How the devs feel about the professions isn’t how we feel and the majority of the issues are being swept under the rug.

Grouch: “Well I kinda wanna jump subjects here…we want a little road map of where the professions are heading…so we’ll start with the elementalist….”

pause…

Karl: “Start off with the elementalist….right now uh…they only have one specific build…uh…”

I want a meaningful discussion on what the pvp community feels about eles, not what the devs feel. Grouch should have asked them directly about their burst, healing, and mobility with examples given from Xeph and Nero, and then see what the devs have to say about said issue. The same goes for all professions. It’s not hard to skim the forums and see what the main problems are with each class are just by looking at the post titles.

dude… dev’s cant come to the forums… they have said it many times! if they take some of theyre pressious time to com and read what were posting then they will be wating pressious time that could be spent on fixing what they imagin that needs fixing, playing table tennis and go to Facebook!

How dare you ask such thing from the devs?! why would they have to listen to us mere players? who cares about our feedback? they KNOW exactly what needs to be done and by the SotG video you could imediatly tell that they were fully knowledgeable about the game, they knew exactly what they were talking about, were confident and had no doubts nor confusions. mi right?

The stealth nerf that’s about to happen to thieves soon. Will this apply to all stealth effect that any profession can use or get from a rune?

In my opinion it should because it would be silly if only one class is affected by the reveal debuff while other professions gets of scott free.

Karl was kind of cringe-worthy to listen to. It’s obvious he had no idea why he was there.

I don’t mean that as an attack on him personally; I actually have confidence in the direction of balance in Guild Wars 2. He was just really bad at getting to the point and clearly laying out his thoughts, and it brought down the overall quality of this State of the Game.

Grouch did a pretty terrible job too. We know what features are coming to the game. We’ve heard the list dozens of times. Balance is a much more relevant topic of discussion.