Guild Wars 2

Xeph.4513:

http://www.twitch.tv/phantaram/c/1932538

You can see Arc, doing over 3k in the video (with about 1 crit in the channel), I have also had it do over 4k; just because it doesn’t do damage in a bunker spec doesn’t mean that the spell is weak, you can also use lightning strike and a blind without breaking it channel.

I’m aware that instant skills can be used without breaking activations/channels, I’ve spent a lot of time working with my ele (don’t mean to be rude, just saying).

As for the video, I suppose I did forget that the “standard” ele build is actually a bunker – a problem with traits more than the skill itself, then. The scepter still has more than enough trouble with the unreliability of Dragon’s Tooth and Phoenix, the general uselessness of Shatterstone, and the lack of offense in the earth attunement, though, so I can still complain.

(Some good stuff there, BTW.)

jportell.2197:

kostbabis.8791:

jportell.2197:

kostbabis.8791:

jportell.2197:

waka.9826:

Go into the Ele forums, you will see why ANET thinks Ele needs buffs. Literally every ele player that posts in there cries about how bad ele is in PVP.

What’s funny is when I take my ele (class i have the least experience with out of my 5) I did not look at build specifics just knew I needed clerics amulet and a 0/10/0/30/30 build didn’t look at what traits were specific just kinda picked and chose… Went into a couple tourneys/hotjoins and it was insane how many boons I had and how much just swapping into water healed me and the damage was still some what okay… But seriously something should be toned down here.

lol..you know that tanky amulets on any class make up easy to not die builds right?
I mean just because you was “omg look at me im healed”, “omg i cant die 1vs1 its op”..that doesnt mean a thing.
I really doubt you even understand what is the problem top players have with this class..

Any class? Try doing that with a thief… HAHAHAHAH no… Doing it with a mesmer is POSSIBLE but because most of our tankiness comes from having a phantasmal defender out the summon can easily be blinded and even at our tankiest we still have terrible condi removal. Full tank guardians.. Well that’s what they were meant to do.. Full tank warriors… Just won’t happen.. Necro maybe but they don’t do it as well as an ele… Not even close. The BM bunker ranger can be pretty good but doesn’t have as much group utility/healing as the bunker ele… And Engi with the new turret buffs maybe but i doubt it. The problem top players have is that the bunker ele build out performs every other bunker build in the game by a long shot… And I did not say 1v1 I was however able to dance around on the node and pretty much feel invincible and have a FULL boon uptime on several boons… and just fully heal myself using one of 3 different methods…

ele outperforms every other bunker??seriously?
Ranger bunker heals as much while doing much more damage.
Guardian has multiple times more group utility with node control,stability,rezzes and he is not forced off point to heal or into invuln that lose the point.
Dude you really have no idea about the origin of the complaints and the ele at far problem..
To give you the clue ..(its all about the mobility)

And that coupled with all the other awesome ness of a bunker ele=BEST IN GAME

Dude.. its pointless.You said its op cause you ecuiped clercis and 30 in water and werent dying against noobs in hot join.I said THAT proves nothing..
Did i say anything about being too strong??It can be pretty much disgustingly op and what you said in your post would still be wrong.I rest my case since this talk is pointless

Dude.. its pointless.You said its op cause you ecuiped clercis and 30 in water and werent dying against noobs in hot join.I said THAT proves nothing..
Did i say anything about being too strong??It can be pretty much disgustingly op and what you said in your post would still be wrong.I rest my case since this talk is pointlessedit:lol whats up with the double paragraph? In editing it appears only 1 :S

kostbabis.8791:

jportell.2197:

kostbabis.8791:

jportell.2197:

kostbabis.8791:

jportell.2197:

waka.9826:

Go into the Ele forums, you will see why ANET thinks Ele needs buffs. Literally every ele player that posts in there cries about how bad ele is in PVP.

What’s funny is when I take my ele (class i have the least experience with out of my 5) I did not look at build specifics just knew I needed clerics amulet and a 0/10/0/30/30 build didn’t look at what traits were specific just kinda picked and chose… Went into a couple tourneys/hotjoins and it was insane how many boons I had and how much just swapping into water healed me and the damage was still some what okay… But seriously something should be toned down here.

lol..you know that tanky amulets on any class make up easy to not die builds right?
I mean just because you was “omg look at me im healed”, “omg i cant die 1vs1 its op”..that doesnt mean a thing.
I really doubt you even understand what is the problem top players have with this class..

Any class? Try doing that with a thief… HAHAHAHAH no… Doing it with a mesmer is POSSIBLE but because most of our tankiness comes from having a phantasmal defender out the summon can easily be blinded and even at our tankiest we still have terrible condi removal. Full tank guardians.. Well that’s what they were meant to do.. Full tank warriors… Just won’t happen.. Necro maybe but they don’t do it as well as an ele… Not even close. The BM bunker ranger can be pretty good but doesn’t have as much group utility/healing as the bunker ele… And Engi with the new turret buffs maybe but i doubt it. The problem top players have is that the bunker ele build out performs every other bunker build in the game by a long shot… And I did not say 1v1 I was however able to dance around on the node and pretty much feel invincible and have a FULL boon uptime on several boons… and just fully heal myself using one of 3 different methods…

ele outperforms every other bunker??seriously?
Ranger bunker heals as much while doing much more damage.
Guardian has multiple times more group utility with node control,stability,rezzes and he is not forced off point to heal or into invuln that lose the point.
Dude you really have no idea about the origin of the complaints and the ele at far problem..
To give you the clue ..(its all about the mobility)

And that coupled with all the other awesome ness of a bunker ele=BEST IN GAME

Dude.. its pointless.You said its op cause you ecuiped clercis and 30 in water and werent dying against noobs in hot join.I said THAT proves nothing..
Did i say anything about being too strong??It can be pretty much disgustingly op and what you said in your post would still be wrong.I rest my case since this talk is pointless

Dude.. its pointless.You said its op cause you ecuiped clercis and 30 in water and werent dying against noobs in hot join.I said THAT proves nothing..
Did i say anything about being too strong??It can be pretty much disgustingly op and what you said in your post would still be wrong.I rest my case since this talk is pointlessedit:lol whats up with the double paragraph? In editing it appears only 1 :S

I was fixin to say thanks for the point but it didn’t need stated twice in one post. :P

Chaosky.5276:

Xeph.4513:

http://www.twitch.tv/phantaram/c/1932538

You can see Arc, doing over 3k in the video (with about 1 crit in the channel), I have also had it do over 4k; just because it doesn’t do damage in a bunker spec doesn’t mean that the spell is weak, you can also use lightning strike and a blind without breaking it channel.

I’m aware that instant skills can be used without breaking activations/channels, I’ve spent a lot of time working with my ele (don’t mean to be rude, just saying).

As for the video, I suppose I did forget that the “standard” ele build is actually a bunker – a problem with traits more than the skill itself, then. The scepter still has more than enough trouble with the unreliability of Dragon’s Tooth and Phoenix, the general uselessness of Shatterstone, and the lack of offense in the earth attunement, though, so I can still complain.

(Some good stuff there, BTW.)

let me get this straight, Earth has no offense, Fire is also unreliable and Air arc lightning sucks, its a wonder I die to ele’s.
Regardless I think that this argument can go back and forth, so I suppose we can agree to disagree on the usefulness of Arc lightning.

state of the patch march 2013
not good
k guys we can go home now

Xeph.4513:

Chaosky.5276:

Xeph.4513:

http://www.twitch.tv/phantaram/c/1932538

You can see Arc, doing over 3k in the video (with about 1 crit in the channel), I have also had it do over 4k; just because it doesn’t do damage in a bunker spec doesn’t mean that the spell is weak, you can also use lightning strike and a blind without breaking it channel.

I’m aware that instant skills can be used without breaking activations/channels, I’ve spent a lot of time working with my ele (don’t mean to be rude, just saying).

As for the video, I suppose I did forget that the “standard” ele build is actually a bunker – a problem with traits more than the skill itself, then. The scepter still has more than enough trouble with the unreliability of Dragon’s Tooth and Phoenix, the general uselessness of Shatterstone, and the lack of offense in the earth attunement, though, so I can still complain.

(Some good stuff there, BTW.)

let me get this straight, Earth has no offense, Fire is also unreliable and Air arc lightning sucks, its a wonder I die to ele’s.
Regardless I think that this argument can go back and forth, so I suppose we can agree to disagree on the usefulness of Arc lightning.

Well i dont want to take part in an argument about air 1 damage but you ignore that in that video half the dps comes from arcanes + that mesm has like 15 invlun stacks + 20% damage from bolt to the heart+ 10 % from air training + phantarams 10+ stack of might + its on a squishy cloth mesmer.In phantas build it would do normaly about 2k damage.
Again i m not taking sides about that skill here :P

and i forgot with that hp he must be using scholar runes and its also possible he has vital striking :P
With THAT many multipliers anything from any other class would hit 3k in much less time than 3.5 sec.

Xeph.4513:

let me get this straight, Earth has no offense, Fire is also unreliable and Air arc lightning sucks, its a wonder I die to ele’s.
Regardless I think that this argument can go back and forth, so I suppose we can agree to disagree on the usefulness of Arc lightning.

I conceded that Arc Lightning is fine when built offensively, and I’m only concerned about the effectiveness of the scepter at 900 range, in which case what I said should be true.

Shutting up now.

kostbabis.8791:

Xeph.4513:

Chaosky.5276:

Xeph.4513:

http://www.twitch.tv/phantaram/c/1932538

You can see Arc, doing over 3k in the video (with about 1 crit in the channel), I have also had it do over 4k; just because it doesn’t do damage in a bunker spec doesn’t mean that the spell is weak, you can also use lightning strike and a blind without breaking it channel.

I’m aware that instant skills can be used without breaking activations/channels, I’ve spent a lot of time working with my ele (don’t mean to be rude, just saying).

As for the video, I suppose I did forget that the “standard” ele build is actually a bunker – a problem with traits more than the skill itself, then. The scepter still has more than enough trouble with the unreliability of Dragon’s Tooth and Phoenix, the general uselessness of Shatterstone, and the lack of offense in the earth attunement, though, so I can still complain.

(Some good stuff there, BTW.)

let me get this straight, Earth has no offense, Fire is also unreliable and Air arc lightning sucks, its a wonder I die to ele’s.
Regardless I think that this argument can go back and forth, so I suppose we can agree to disagree on the usefulness of Arc lightning.

Well i dont want to take part in an argument about air 1 damage but you ignore that in that video half the dps comes from arcanes + that mesm has like 15 invlun stacks + 20% damage from bolt to the heart+ 10 % from air training + phantarams 10+ stack of might + its on a squishy cloth mesmer.In phantas build it would do normaly about 2k damage.
Again i m not taking sides about that skill here :P

I duel phantaram a lot, and trust me when I say his highest source of damage is always in Air with Arc lightning a single channel does as much as 3k, a lot of people underestimate the amount of damage that it can do when specced correctly; I do however understand that it doesn’t deal that much damage on a bunker ele, but then again it is a bunker.

Xeph.4513:

kostbabis.8791:

Xeph.4513:

Chaosky.5276:

Xeph.4513:

http://www.twitch.tv/phantaram/c/1932538

You can see Arc, doing over 3k in the video (with about 1 crit in the channel), I have also had it do over 4k; just because it doesn’t do damage in a bunker spec doesn’t mean that the spell is weak, you can also use lightning strike and a blind without breaking it channel.

I’m aware that instant skills can be used without breaking activations/channels, I’ve spent a lot of time working with my ele (don’t mean to be rude, just saying).

As for the video, I suppose I did forget that the “standard” ele build is actually a bunker – a problem with traits more than the skill itself, then. The scepter still has more than enough trouble with the unreliability of Dragon’s Tooth and Phoenix, the general uselessness of Shatterstone, and the lack of offense in the earth attunement, though, so I can still complain.

(Some good stuff there, BTW.)

let me get this straight, Earth has no offense, Fire is also unreliable and Air arc lightning sucks, its a wonder I die to ele’s.
Regardless I think that this argument can go back and forth, so I suppose we can agree to disagree on the usefulness of Arc lightning.

Well i dont want to take part in an argument about air 1 damage but you ignore that in that video half the dps comes from arcanes + that mesm has like 15 invlun stacks + 20% damage from bolt to the heart+ 10 % from air training + phantarams 10+ stack of might + its on a squishy cloth mesmer.In phantas build it would do normaly about 2k damage.
Again i m not taking sides about that skill here :P

I duel phantaram a lot, and trust me when I say his highest source of damage is always in Air with Arc lightning a single channel does as much as 3k, a lot of people underestimate the amount of damage that it can do when specced correctly; I do however understand that it doesn’t deal that much damage on a bunker ele, but then again it is a bunker.

hehe then imagine if the fire burst was reliable..
anyway my point still stands.You have to strip yourself from any multipliers ,might,vuln etc when testing damage on skills.You may argue that the skill on an ele that can heal,roam and occasionally aoe burst at the same buiild is fine but as standalone its actually a bit lackluster.
So there it is ! You are both correct about it being bad or not.
Its bad compared to ranged sklls options other classes have but its fine on an ele that has might stacking plus 2 instant utilities and 2 instant spells on air switch that can be casted with it.

“specced correctly” = bunker

I main ele and I can tell you there is no reason to play anything but bunker builds. The fire, air and earth traits are really bad compared to water and arcana (https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/elementalist/Guide-Rating-Elementalist-traits ).

I wish they implemented boon hate this patch and at the same time buffed the fire, air and earth traits. This would make non bunker builds finally viable and nerf bunkers at the same time.

Blackhat.4016:

“specced correctly” = bunker

I main ele and I can tell you there is no reason to play anything but bunker builds. The fire, air and earth traits are really bad compared to water and arcana (https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/elementalist/Guide-Rating-Elementalist-traits ).

I wish they implemented boon hate this patch and at the same time buffed the fire, air and earth traits. This would make non bunker builds finally viable and nerf bunkers at the same time.

We’ve been running a dps ele since release, and it has been working fine for us, and when I said “specced correctly” it was in reference to having arc lightning deal damage, you can’t go bunker and expect it to deal more then 2k damage.

Why are you talking about irrelevant stuff like ele when you could be mourning the weakness of our poor warrior now?

Oni.5429:

Why are you talking about irrelevant stuff like ele when you could be mourning the weakness of our poor warrior now?

Start a discussion then, this thread encompasses all changes, so if there is anything you feel like sharing go ahead, otherwise you can wait patiently till someone brings it up.

Is there any guide/video about your DPS ele build? I would love to try it and see if it really works that well.

I never said Arc Lightning should deal a lot of damage if you go bunker. Bunkers should have a low damage output compared to GCs.

That’s what they say every single time they notice that the PvP community is disappointed.

Wrong.

They never said it was an official sPvP patch. For some reason this forum thinks ArenaNet told them it was. Maybe it’s because this forum reads the patch notes and sees class changes, WHICH ARE IN EVERY PATCH BTW, and think “omg class changes, this must be a sPvP patch lulz”.

Every month they give a few previews about the big marketable features of the patch. Here is March:

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/world-vs-worldthe-end-of-culling/
https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/world-vs-world-introducing-world-ranks-and-more/
https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/guild-missions-a-good-foundation/

Notice the lack of sPvP?

Here is February:

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/big-changes-to-pvp-paid-tournaments-replaced-by-free-tournaments/
https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/leah-rivera-on-new-guild-missions/
https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/introducing-the-new-spirit-watch-pvp-map/
https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/upcoming-changes-to-pvp-tournaments/

Notice the sPvP?

Yea. Case closed.

Blackhat.4016:

Is there any guide/video about your DPS ele build? I would love to try it and see if it really works that well.

I never said Arc Lightning should deal a lot of damage if you go bunker. Bunkers should have a low damage output compared to GCs.

You can check out his stream, I’m pretty sure it has the builds and a lot of gameplay footage in it.

http://www.twitch.tv/phantaram

Thanks.

Xeph.4513:

Chaosky.5276:

Xeph.4513:

Both the mesmer GS auto attack and Ele scepter do significant damage; its the first time I have seen someone claim otherwise, they may not be the best auto attacks in the game but they are far from being weak.

Ele and Mesmer already deal a large amount of aoe damage, I never understood why they should get a buff to their aoe damage if its already border line op.

Also please don’t try and compare a range skill to a melee auto attack.

I can’t speak for Spatial Surge, but you do realize that Arc Lightning only hits for about 1.8k over 3 1/2 seconds with the standard build, right? That’s also only if you even channel it for that long, which you won’t, because you need to switch to other attunements to use other skills and keep fury up. That’s not even considering that the scepter’s fire skills are absurdly easy to dodge, and that the earth attunement lacks offense.

I’m not saying that I want more AoE damage – I actually want less so that our ranged single-target capability can be improved – but the elementalist’s scepter is not an effective weapon for ranged damage as-is.

http://www.twitch.tv/phantaram/c/1932538

You can see Arc, doing over 3k in the video (with about 1 crit in the channel), I have also had it do over 4k; just because it doesn’t do damage in a bunker spec doesn’t mean that the spell is weak, you can also use lightning strike and a blind without breaking it channel.

You do realize that’s 3-4k in a 3 second span? In a single melee strike an axe warrior can do more than that, and even my mesmer’s melee chain 3rd step does that number and removes a boon.

Zenith.7301:

Xeph.4513:

Chaosky.5276:

Xeph.4513:

Both the mesmer GS auto attack and Ele scepter do significant damage; its the first time I have seen someone claim otherwise, they may not be the best auto attacks in the game but they are far from being weak.

Ele and Mesmer already deal a large amount of aoe damage, I never understood why they should get a buff to their aoe damage if its already border line op.

Also please don’t try and compare a range skill to a melee auto attack.

I can’t speak for Spatial Surge, but you do realize that Arc Lightning only hits for about 1.8k over 3 1/2 seconds with the standard build, right? That’s also only if you even channel it for that long, which you won’t, because you need to switch to other attunements to use other skills and keep fury up. That’s not even considering that the scepter’s fire skills are absurdly easy to dodge, and that the earth attunement lacks offense.

I’m not saying that I want more AoE damage – I actually want less so that our ranged single-target capability can be improved – but the elementalist’s scepter is not an effective weapon for ranged damage as-is.

http://www.twitch.tv/phantaram/c/1932538

You can see Arc, doing over 3k in the video (with about 1 crit in the channel), I have also had it do over 4k; just because it doesn’t do damage in a bunker spec doesn’t mean that the spell is weak, you can also use lightning strike and a blind without breaking it channel.

You do realize that’s 3-4k in a 3 second span? In a single melee strike an axe warrior can do more than that, and even my mesmer’s melee chain 3rd step does that number and removes a boon.

Comparing melle auto attacks and skills to a range auto attack is apples and oranges…How many times does this need to be said.

Torqky.3682:

Zenith.7301:

Xeph.4513:

Chaosky.5276:

Xeph.4513:

Both the mesmer GS auto attack and Ele scepter do significant damage; its the first time I have seen someone claim otherwise, they may not be the best auto attacks in the game but they are far from being weak.

Ele and Mesmer already deal a large amount of aoe damage, I never understood why they should get a buff to their aoe damage if its already border line op.

Also please don’t try and compare a range skill to a melee auto attack.

I can’t speak for Spatial Surge, but you do realize that Arc Lightning only hits for about 1.8k over 3 1/2 seconds with the standard build, right? That’s also only if you even channel it for that long, which you won’t, because you need to switch to other attunements to use other skills and keep fury up. That’s not even considering that the scepter’s fire skills are absurdly easy to dodge, and that the earth attunement lacks offense.

I’m not saying that I want more AoE damage – I actually want less so that our ranged single-target capability can be improved – but the elementalist’s scepter is not an effective weapon for ranged damage as-is.

http://www.twitch.tv/phantaram/c/1932538

You can see Arc, doing over 3k in the video (with about 1 crit in the channel), I have also had it do over 4k; just because it doesn’t do damage in a bunker spec doesn’t mean that the spell is weak, you can also use lightning strike and a blind without breaking it channel.

You do realize that’s 3-4k in a 3 second span? In a single melee strike an axe warrior can do more than that, and even my mesmer’s melee chain 3rd step does that number and removes a boon.

Comparing melle auto attacks and skills to a range auto attack is apples and oranges…How many times does this need to be said.

It’s not apples and oranges when uptime in melee is so easy to maintain. A longbow berk ranger can also land a 4k auto in one shot, and let’s not even discuss thief shortbow strikes, which bounce.

This game also has this thing most of the playing population plays called PvE, in which most of the content can be spent in melee at little risk.

There is a reason why dagger/dagger and staff are used over the scepter in most of the game. Moaning about scepter autoattack buffs has got to be the most ridiculous complaint I’ve heard.

This patch is bad for spvp imo.
I main thief and stealth and haste(also critical haste trait) is not of good use anymore.
Anet is killing fast builds, not giving us new ones, not fun to play anymore, i’m very dissapointed, this game development makes me angry too often, and i think is time to say KITTEN THIS!
And buffing ele??? I just don’t get it…

Zenith.7301:

Torqky.3682:

Zenith.7301:

Xeph.4513:

Chaosky.5276:

Xeph.4513:

Both the mesmer GS auto attack and Ele scepter do significant damage; its the first time I have seen someone claim otherwise, they may not be the best auto attacks in the game but they are far from being weak.

Ele and Mesmer already deal a large amount of aoe damage, I never understood why they should get a buff to their aoe damage if its already border line op.

Also please don’t try and compare a range skill to a melee auto attack.

I can’t speak for Spatial Surge, but you do realize that Arc Lightning only hits for about 1.8k over 3 1/2 seconds with the standard build, right? That’s also only if you even channel it for that long, which you won’t, because you need to switch to other attunements to use other skills and keep fury up. That’s not even considering that the scepter’s fire skills are absurdly easy to dodge, and that the earth attunement lacks offense.

I’m not saying that I want more AoE damage – I actually want less so that our ranged single-target capability can be improved – but the elementalist’s scepter is not an effective weapon for ranged damage as-is.

http://www.twitch.tv/phantaram/c/1932538

You can see Arc, doing over 3k in the video (with about 1 crit in the channel), I have also had it do over 4k; just because it doesn’t do damage in a bunker spec doesn’t mean that the spell is weak, you can also use lightning strike and a blind without breaking it channel.

You do realize that’s 3-4k in a 3 second span? In a single melee strike an axe warrior can do more than that, and even my mesmer’s melee chain 3rd step does that number and removes a boon.

Comparing melle auto attacks and skills to a range auto attack is apples and oranges…How many times does this need to be said.

It’s not apples and oranges when uptime in melee is so easy to maintain. A longbow berk ranger can also land a 4k auto in one shot, and let’s not even discuss thief shortbow strikes, which bounce.

This game also has this thing most of the playing population plays called PvE, in which most of the content can be spent in melee at little risk.

There is a reason why dagger/dagger and staff are used over the scepter in most of the game. Moaning about scepter autoattack buffs has got to be the most ridiculous complaint I’ve heard.

Firstly I don’t even think we are playing the same game if you think most ele’s run D/D and staff over S/D.
Second Ele’s have access to 2X more amount of skills then over classes do, and just because a longbow Zerker ranger can deal 4k (in probably the best case scenario) in a single shot, he remains unviable; whilst ele’s remain at the top of the food chain.

The fact also that your trying to compare this to melee attacks is baffling, what this whole point comes down to is the fact that it was an unnecessary buff to ele’s they were perfectly fine without it, why use your time and resources (which according to ante are very minimal) in buffing something that wasn’t needed in the first place.

Simply said Ele’s are at the pinnacle of the class hierarchy, they don’t need any buffs infact they need to be toned down a bit, and even if you sir want to argue that its not the best auto attack in the game therefore buffing it is perfectly justified, then that argument can be applicable to everything else, hell let my mesmers staff attacks crit for 4k just like the ranger longbow.

Staff mesmer is kitten in autoattack as well, part of the reason why it’s not used in PvE. Autos seem irrelevant to you because you’re a PvP player fighting things with a low finite HP of about 27k hp at best.

Autoattacks on the other hand make up the majority of sustained damage in PvE. They are a necessary and important part of the game, and the scepter has terrible autoattacks on every attunement. All I saw on your video was burst derived from the offhand dagger, the 2 air abilities, and arcane utilities. In the same old s/d burst build.

I saw your questions on the SotG, about why skills wouldn’t be split. And if the dev answers or the fact that 6 months past with minimal split have not clued you into the fact that skill splitting will be a late and last resort in most instance, you better get used to holistic balancing patches. Instead ask for nerfs on aspects that PvE eles don’t use much, like cantrips.

Zenith.7301:

Staff mesmer is kitten in autoattack as well, part of the reason why it’s not used in PvE. Autos seem irrelevant to you because you’re a PvP player fighting things with a low finite HP of about 27k hp at best.

Autoattacks on the other hand make up the majority of sustained damage in PvE. They are a necessary and important part of the game, and the scepter has terrible autoattacks on every attunement. All I saw on your video was burst derived from the offhand dagger, the 2 air abilities, and arcane utilities. In the same old s/d burst build.

I was under the impression this was the pvp section of the forums; and that we are discussing all of this in a pvp scenario, besides Arena net has shown that they can balance for pve and pvp separately.

Xeph.4513:

Zenith.7301:

Staff mesmer is kitten in autoattack as well, part of the reason why it’s not used in PvE. Autos seem irrelevant to you because you’re a PvP player fighting things with a low finite HP of about 27k hp at best.

Autoattacks on the other hand make up the majority of sustained damage in PvE. They are a necessary and important part of the game, and the scepter has terrible autoattacks on every attunement. All I saw on your video was burst derived from the offhand dagger, the 2 air abilities, and arcane utilities. In the same old s/d burst build.

I was under the impression this was the pvp section of the forums; and that we are discussing all of this in a pvp scenario, besides Arena net has shown that they can balance for pve and pvp separately.

When have they balanced PvE and PvP separately? I thought you would have realized that with warriors.

The only noticeable split they’ve done is with confusion. I don’t recall any other substantial skill splitting patch anywhere close to the vicinity of gw1 balancing.

Zenith.7301:

Xeph.4513:

Zenith.7301:

Staff mesmer is kitten in autoattack as well, part of the reason why it’s not used in PvE. Autos seem irrelevant to you because you’re a PvP player fighting things with a low finite HP of about 27k hp at best.

Autoattacks on the other hand make up the majority of sustained damage in PvE. They are a necessary and important part of the game, and the scepter has terrible autoattacks on every attunement. All I saw on your video was burst derived from the offhand dagger, the 2 air abilities, and arcane utilities. In the same old s/d burst build.

I was under the impression this was the pvp section of the forums; and that we are discussing all of this in a pvp scenario, besides Arena net has shown that they can balance for pve and pvp separately.

When have they balanced PvE and PvP separately? I thought you would have realized that with warriors.

The only noticeable split they’ve done is with confusion. I don’t recall any other substantial skill splitting patch anywhere close to the vicinity of gw1 balancing.

Evasive Arcana: The spell cast while in water attunement has been split between PvE and PvP. This spell’s effectiveness with the healing attribute has been reduced by 50% while in Pv

Save your self from the guardian also has increased buff duration in pve.

Selfless Daring: This trait had an efficiency with healing power that was reserved for healing skills only and has now been reduced to its intended level. Heal scaling has been reduced by 50% in PvP only.

Those are some skills that have been split.

Xeph.4513:

Zenith.7301:

Xeph.4513:

Zenith.7301:

Staff mesmer is kitten in autoattack as well, part of the reason why it’s not used in PvE. Autos seem irrelevant to you because you’re a PvP player fighting things with a low finite HP of about 27k hp at best.

Autoattacks on the other hand make up the majority of sustained damage in PvE. They are a necessary and important part of the game, and the scepter has terrible autoattacks on every attunement. All I saw on your video was burst derived from the offhand dagger, the 2 air abilities, and arcane utilities. In the same old s/d burst build.

I was under the impression this was the pvp section of the forums; and that we are discussing all of this in a pvp scenario, besides Arena net has shown that they can balance for pve and pvp separately.

When have they balanced PvE and PvP separately? I thought you would have realized that with warriors.

The only noticeable split they’ve done is with confusion. I don’t recall any other substantial skill splitting patch anywhere close to the vicinity of gw1 balancing.

Evasive Arcana: The spell cast while in water attunement has been split between PvE and PvP. This spell’s effectiveness with the healing attribute has been reduced by 50% while in Pv

Save your self from the guardian also has increased buff duration in pve.

Those are some skills that have been split.

Haste nerfed by 50% largely to PvP concerns (and especially time warp). In one fell swoop any semblance of viabily was removed from pve rangers (ranges have the most haste uptime of any class).

The breadth of balance changes has been done without thought on the impact of both formats at the same time. Necros are mediocre and have not received pve buffs due to them being strong in the PvP metagame as boon-strippers and the cc from the staff. Warriors have not received the hefty damage reductions they need in PvE because it would further cripple them in PvP where landing 100b is harder.

And honestly, have you thought about the mechanic behind the beam multi-targeting, whether they would have the technology or capacity to turn it off in one format or not the other? Because it’s not a numbers tweak when it comes to the new beam mechanic. They said in that podcast that it was new technology they had just come up with.

Zenith.7301:

Xeph.4513:

Zenith.7301:

Xeph.4513:

Zenith.7301:

Staff mesmer is kitten in autoattack as well, part of the reason why it’s not used in PvE. Autos seem irrelevant to you because you’re a PvP player fighting things with a low finite HP of about 27k hp at best.

Autoattacks on the other hand make up the majority of sustained damage in PvE. They are a necessary and important part of the game, and the scepter has terrible autoattacks on every attunement. All I saw on your video was burst derived from the offhand dagger, the 2 air abilities, and arcane utilities. In the same old s/d burst build.

I was under the impression this was the pvp section of the forums; and that we are discussing all of this in a pvp scenario, besides Arena net has shown that they can balance for pve and pvp separately.

When have they balanced PvE and PvP separately? I thought you would have realized that with warriors.

The only noticeable split they’ve done is with confusion. I don’t recall any other substantial skill splitting patch anywhere close to the vicinity of gw1 balancing.

Evasive Arcana: The spell cast while in water attunement has been split between PvE and PvP. This spell’s effectiveness with the healing attribute has been reduced by 50% while in Pv

Save your self from the guardian also has increased buff duration in pve.

Those are some skills that have been split.

Haste nerfed by 50% largely to PvP concerns (and especially time warp). In one fell swoop any semblance of viabily was removed from pve rangers (ranges have the most haste uptime of any class).

The breadth of balance changes has been done without thought on the impact of both formats at the same time. Necros are mediocre and have not received pve buffs due to them being strong in the PvP metagame as boon-strippers and the cc from the staff.

And honestly, have you thought about the mechanic behind the beam multi-targeting, whether they would have the technology or capacity to turn it off in one format or not the other? Because it’s not a numbers tweak when it comes to the new beam mechanic.

So your trying to say that they nerfed quickness without taking into account what it would do to classes in pve, well thats something only arena net can answer for you; but I am pretty sure that they knew it was going to effect every class with quickness, they didn’t suddenly forget.

Your also trying to say that classes are not being buffed in pve because they are strong in pvp, just going to say thats an absurd statement without anything to back it up.

Lastly regarding the mesmer beam; I am not well versed in coding so I wouldn’t be able to give you an answer regarding if arena net can do it or not; but I would lean towards the fact that they can, but as they said they wanted to implement it and have a look at how it works in pvp.

P.S please stop bringing pve into this, this is a pvp discussion forum and you would do well not bring that up in these parts, can be dangerous at times. :<

Really, pve is the illness that will kill gw2

Rerroll.9083:

Really, pve is the illness that will kill gw2

hoenstly now, im not so sure about this.

Xeph.4513:

Zenith.7301:

Xeph.4513:

Zenith.7301:

Xeph.4513:

Zenith.7301:

Staff mesmer is kitten in autoattack as well, part of the reason why it’s not used in PvE. Autos seem irrelevant to you because you’re a PvP player fighting things with a low finite HP of about 27k hp at best.

Autoattacks on the other hand make up the majority of sustained damage in PvE. They are a necessary and important part of the game, and the scepter has terrible autoattacks on every attunement. All I saw on your video was burst derived from the offhand dagger, the 2 air abilities, and arcane utilities. In the same old s/d burst build.

I was under the impression this was the pvp section of the forums; and that we are discussing all of this in a pvp scenario, besides Arena net has shown that they can balance for pve and pvp separately.

When have they balanced PvE and PvP separately? I thought you would have realized that with warriors.

The only noticeable split they’ve done is with confusion. I don’t recall any other substantial skill splitting patch anywhere close to the vicinity of gw1 balancing.

Evasive Arcana: The spell cast while in water attunement has been split between PvE and PvP. This spell’s effectiveness with the healing attribute has been reduced by 50% while in Pv

Save your self from the guardian also has increased buff duration in pve.

Those are some skills that have been split.

Haste nerfed by 50% largely to PvP concerns (and especially time warp). In one fell swoop any semblance of viabily was removed from pve rangers (ranges have the most haste uptime of any class).

The breadth of balance changes has been done without thought on the impact of both formats at the same time. Necros are mediocre and have not received pve buffs due to them being strong in the PvP metagame as boon-strippers and the cc from the staff.

And honestly, have you thought about the mechanic behind the beam multi-targeting, whether they would have the technology or capacity to turn it off in one format or not the other? Because it’s not a numbers tweak when it comes to the new beam mechanic.

So your trying to say that they nerfed quickness without taking into account what it would do to classes in pve, well thats something only arena net can answer for you; but I am pretty sure that they knew it was going to effect every class with quickness, they didn’t suddenly forget.

Your also trying to say that classes are not being buffed in pve because they are strong in pvp, just going to say thats an absurd statement without anything to back it up.

Lastly regarding the mesmer beam; I am not well versed in coding so I wouldn’t be able to give you an answer regarding if arena net can do it or not; but I would lean towards the fact that they can, but as they said they wanted to implement it and have a look at how it works in pvp.

P.S please stop bringing pve into this, this is a pvp discussion forum and you would do well not bring that up in these parts, can be dangerous at times. :<

Just check the ranger forums. It’s in cold hard math the actual DPS impact on rangers, which if you don’t pay attention to PvE, are persona non grata alongside necros and to a lesser extent engineers.

You can say it’s absurd to say that one class is not buffed in x aspect so it won’t affect y, but in SotG they stated very clearly to you that they want their numbers to be universal and recognizable to all players across format.

I also ask you to test confusion builds in PvE vs, berserker stats. They just don’t work. And you know why they won’t increase the damage or duration of confusion to make it viable in one format? Because it’s already OP in WvW (which is pvp) and WvW uses PvE stat rulesets.

I just think you’re hiding behind the unreasonable expectation that they will simply be splitting skills when that is the exception rather than the rule. And it does rub me the wrong way when you complain about a new mechanic that was merely collateral to make the weapon less garbage in one aspect of the game, painting the situation as if they consciously made the move to buff elementalists in PvP while spiting PvP warriors yet again. They just seem to have a low priority evaluation of class balance when it comes to allocating resources.

A beam that opponents need to position themselves in between to be affected and is very easy to stay out of does not come close to one of the reasons that ele was tipped over the top in pvp. Mist form, exaggerated condition removal, cc, and great cleaving in one whole package plus boon strength is why they dominate — but not a weak ramping autoattack beam happening to strike more than one target between.

Frankly I don’t care how the patch changes effected pve, otherwise I would be posting in a different part of the forum, you fail to understand my lack of interest in how these changes are perceived by PvE players just as they do when PvE changes effect PvP.

If you are coming here to argue the PvE aspect of these changes, then I wholeheartedly suggest that you seek a different sub forum, one in which your arguments are relevant to the context.

Also ArenaNet has shown the capacity to split PvE and PvP, if they so choose to do so; the reasons for which they are not, are neither known to me nor to yourself; so whatever conspiracy that you wish to make up in order to justify your argument, can be countered with one of my own, as I said previously nor you or I know why they chose not to split these changes.

Just to address the little edit you had on your previous post; I never said that the beam attack was what tipped ele’s over, I only stated that it was an unnecessary buff when the resources could’ve been allocated else where, so I really don’t understand what your trying to get at with that comment.

Xeph.4513:

Frankly I don’t care how the patch changes effected pve, otherwise I would be posting in a different part of the forum, you fail to understand my lack of interest in how these changes are perceived by PvE players just as they do when PvE changes effect PvP.

Some players play both. Not everyone is selfish and dismissive of balance for the game as a whole instead of getting only what they care about at the expense of others.

But isolate yourself in this subforum if it pleases you. Something tells me that by population numbers your kind of approach won’t get much traction.

It’s just amazing how some people think that PvE can be divorced from PvP in a game where developers have to craft and maintain professions for 3 aspects of the game with subdivisions among them.

Zenith.7301:

Xeph.4513:

Frankly I don’t care how the patch changes effected pve, otherwise I would be posting in a different part of the forum, you fail to understand my lack of interest in how these changes are perceived by PvE players just as they do when PvE changes effect PvP.

Some players play both. Not everyone is selfish and dismissive of balance for the game as a whole instead of getting only what they care about at the expense of others.

But isolate yourself in this subforum if it pleases you. Something tells me that by population numbers your kind of approach won’t get much traction.

I posted on the PvP sub forum, because I wished to get a PvP prospective on the changes, had I wanted both theses views I would’ve posted in the general discussion part of the forum; that is why sub forums exist good sir, just because you wish to disregard that, doesn’t make me selfish in the least.

Again to address the edit content that you added in later; I don’t play pve, so I really have no capacity to understand how these changes effect it or the classes, but please refer to me as selfish because I don’t wish to discuss a topic I don’t know much about.

Xeph.4513:

Zenith.7301:

Xeph.4513:

Frankly I don’t care how the patch changes effected pve, otherwise I would be posting in a different part of the forum, you fail to understand my lack of interest in how these changes are perceived by PvE players just as they do when PvE changes effect PvP.

Some players play both. Not everyone is selfish and dismissive of balance for the game as a whole instead of getting only what they care about at the expense of others.

But isolate yourself in this subforum if it pleases you. Something tells me that by population numbers your kind of approach won’t get much traction.

I posted on the PvP sub forum, because I wished to get a PvP prospective on the changes, had I wanted both theses views I would’ve posted in the general discussion part of the forum; that is why sub forums exist good sir, just because you wish to disregard that, doesn’t make me selfish in the least.

Again to address the edit content that you added in later; I don’t play pve, so I really have no capacity to understand how these changes effect it or the classes, but please refer to me as selfish because I don’t wish to discuss a topic I don’t know much about.

You are not selfish because you don’t want to talk about a topic you’re ignorant on. You’re selfish because you refuse to acknowledge the influence of said topic on the current state of pvp. Balance issues bleed over in a game balanced for universal skills most of the time.

You gave me, what, 3 splits in a sea of abilities cuttenly imbalanced in both aspects? What proportion did these splits make out of the entire balancing changes so far? And did the evasive arcana nerf really constitute a nerf for elementalists? How many elementalists went full 30 arcana vs. 20?

lol why are you both still going on!!?!
Anyway isnt it obvious that having arc lightning pierce has nothing to do with eles state.
As a matter of fact is nothing but a buff to scepter in dungeons and pve more than anything else.Its not like this change made eles over the top :P
Also about the argument of having resource spent on “buffing” ele im pretty sure that nothing improtant got on hold for this ..How could it?? :S

Xeph and Zenith both make good points:

Xeph: They can split balance from pvp and pve
Zen: Balance issues “bleed over”

“As we push to improve balance in both PvE and PvP, a few mechanics in the game will be receiving updates to promote fun and balanced play. In the past, quickness has granted double the action speed normally available to players. In PvP, this speed gives most players almost no chance to react to incoming abilities and allows for massive spike damage in extremely short periods of time. In PvE, the increased attack speed can trivialize a lot of content that would otherwise provide a good challenge. Therefore, we are reducing the speed that quickness allows by half of its current potential while slightly increasing the duration on player-activated skills.”

Xeph.4513:

Firstly I don’t even think we are playing the same game if you think most ele’s run D/D and staff over S/D.

I wouldn’t worry about what they’re saying Xeph. 95% of Eles in NA run D/D full cantrip sustain/aurashare/bunker builds and believe nothing else is remotely possible. That S/D isn’t viable because you “can’t reliably land dragon’s tooth and auto-attacks are weak”. Tell that to the thief I downed in 2 seconds.

I’ve run phanta’s new build since he created it and its completely viable. Its harder to play and much more open too punishment but you’re rewarded with crazy burst damage. You just can’t rely on 3 stun breaks/stability/constant protection/regen/teleport to keep you alive which is why most eles opt to the easier broken bunker playstyle.

But yeah, it didn’t really deserve a buff like that at this time. It changes really nothing and there is so much else to fix.

I’m going to ask but… has anyone considered that the reason they only patched quickness as it is, offered no compensation, and left other classes untouched stable is because there might be another patch in… 3 days or so? Perhaps it was to test the waters on the maneuver before rolling out another update shortly thereafter.

I know they like to update at the end of the month and all but we’re also not following the usual norm of updates (many dev posts immediately before and after a patch) and ANet is notorious for their April Fools pranks (and we already have .dat file miners to help us figure out at least a part of what’s coming… and its already in the game so…).

Or I could be crazy.

Arc lightning is very poor DPS, but I think some people underrate it.

It does less DPS than staff air #1 single hit, and, obviously, less than half as much if air #1 bounces back to the first target.

It does have some really great advantages, like being on a strong air attunement with instant casts, it doesn’t have the draw backs of projectiles (i.e. never misses a target in range with line of sight), and the multiple rapid hits give a lot of chances to proc on crit effects.

It’s very consistent and reliable damage, but not high DPS by any definition.

Vena.8436:

I’m going to ask but… has anyone considered that the reason they only patched quickness as it is, offered no compensation, and left other classes untouched stable is because there might be another patch in… 3 days or so? Perhaps it was to test the waters on the maneuver before rolling out another update shortly thereafter.

I know they like to update at the end of the month and all but we’re also not following the usual norm of updates (many dev posts immediately before and after a patch) and ANet is notorious for their April Fools pranks (and we already have .dat file miners to help us figure out at least a part of what’s coming… and its already in the game so…).

Or I could be crazy.

They’re more likely to leave it alone for a month and see how things shake out with the new quickness. That will give them data to work with for future balance changes.

Xeph I’ve never wanted your body more than THIS moment. I’m sure all other warriors feel the same.

I didn’t read any of the responses and nor do I want to. OP is right on the money.

Apollo.7389:

Xeph I’ve never wanted your body more than THIS moment. I’m sure all other warriors feel the same.

I didn’t read any of the responses and nor do I want to. OP is right on the money.

Do I have the right to refuse ? :<

A simple resume of this month sotg

http://www.gameskinny.com/3235x/guild-wars-2-state-of-the-game-march-part-2

@Xeph
Eles the root of evil (JK!), it becomes a problem when a single class can hold back a whole meta, ele’s at the moment are a little overtop the previous nerfs they received didn’t impact the class enough to stop it from being used in the manner that it has for the past 3 months. I can’t fathom why Anet refuses to do anything about this. I will not get in depth about what is wrong with ele; all I am going to say is how many times did you feel like you could be viable had an immortal ele not been chasing you around and bullying you off points, with little to no repercussions for making mistakes.

All in all, all I am trying to say is that I hope Arenanet takes this feedback and everyone else’s feedback to heart and hopefully gives us a better patch next month, we are not asking for knee jerk nerfing Anet, all we are asking is a shake up to the meta once in awhile.
I also want to thank the dev’s for all their hard work, I am sure there are a lot of things that you want to share with your community and that we are impatient a lot of the times, but I still have faith in this game

-Gameskinny-

Next they begin discussing each class in the game, starting with Elementalist. Karl immediately notes that the class has only one real build in high-level play. It is a single build that can do quite literally anything it needs to, from bunkering a point to heavy DPS. This was somewhat deliberate, as the class was intended to be a jack of all trades but master of none. Naturally Arenanet wants to correct this by making other builds more viable.

The class is also known very much for its healing ability. Karl confirmed that is a design decision, and that the goal is for Guardian to be more capable of healing in small doses over time, but for the Elementalist to retain its burst healing.

Xeph pointed out that the combination of self-protection and heavy burst healing makes the class almost unbeatable one on one in the hands of a skilled player. Arenanet noted that they are considering increasing the cast time on the heal and also giving other classes benefits against target stacking boons like an elementalist can.

I believe @Xeph that Anet has answered your questions, they will add an increased casting time to the healing, (for the immense joy of those eles not running a bunker build) and also they’ll introduce boon-hate traits for warriors

@Phantaram want the cantrips to be nerfed, on what I dunno, on their own the cantrips are nothing more than stun breakers and while you don’t need 3 cantrips to stay alive, it also true that other utilities do nothing at all…unless Phantaram run with 3 conjures or signets and in that case, can you link a video of him playing with conjures/signets? In all his streams I have alway seen him playing with mist form-arcane shield/wave and arcane blast , aka 1-2 defensive utilities

The problem with the ele is the water trait line. It has the best healing traits and some of the best damage traits at the same time.

I think the 10% damage when HP is almost full and the 2% damage/boon should be moved to fire or air lines. Right now you can use 30 points on water and heal+dps at the same time.

By the way, eles are not as overpowered as they used to be. They are definitely a better class, but not gods like people tend to think in these forums.

I don’t think the damage traits in water line are a problem. They allow for an interesting defensive/ offensive hybrid build, and last I know, those haven’t been overpowered. The bunker builds don’t use them. Well, with the exception of the +2% damage/ boon, which is a minor trait.

What is overpowered with bunker eles, in my opinion, is not even the healing, but how strong boons are in this game (mostly because they lack counters, which will be addressed in the future) and how strong cantrips are. Cantrips also have great traits, and although those have been toned down and are fine by themselves now, they still remain “too” strong in a game that has limited boon-hate.

First, as an elementalist, I think it’s completely unfair that all ele’s stunbreakers are cantrips. Our stunbreakers should be evenly divided among our utilities. Maybe one arcane stunbreaker (arcane shield?), maybe one conjure stunbreaker (an instant-cast conjure shield?), etc. But it might be a bit too late to change that. 3 of the 4 cantrips, the air blink skill, the armor of earth and the mist form, due to their effects, are naturally fitting to be stunbreakers. Only the condition removal one isn’t begging to be a stunbreaker. Second, I wouldn’t mind to see an “intelligent” nerf to Mist Form. Maybe make it work more like Vapor Form: lower duration but increased speed? I think those two tweaks would be an extra step to tone down eles’ cantrips and make them less dependent on cantrips as well.

Rerroll.9083:

Really, pve is the illness that will kill gw2

We got a comedian here or maybe I just go trolled. If gw1 the game initially designed to be a PvP only game, was sustained by PvE I doubt guild wars 2 is going to have that same problem.