Guild Wars 2

Best no audio show ever .
Esports worthy .

Missed it, will there be a vod on youtube?

What does “We’re talking about it” mean? Colin last said that infrastructure like leagues/automated tournaments are far far away (like one year +) but in this SOTG they’re making it seem they’re working on some stuff like that. So, before you start the hype train again, give a time frame. Now, I know you guys don’t do that but you can chose between a few words: close (2 months max) – far (2 months plus) – very far away (one year +).

So next time you talk about stuff you want/like/work on, immediately burst the hype by saying it is very far away.

“Elementalists only use one attunement, fire” J.Sharp 2013

LOL!

http://s23.postimg.org/shtk3yjm3/super_tshirt.jpg

Thanks to my fan who made it <3

so when mi strong ai?

I can’t believe Karl is dedicating most of his time working on tooltips for traits, when balance is so poor even the most dedicated players are being driven away.

/thread

^About that… To much contradicting visions.

They cater to casuals but also cater to esports while it’s possible to do both, in this case they clash.

Example: Skill ceiling/floor stays low because of casuals. I.e. The great suggestion for the AI heavy class which is Ranger to be able to micro their pets. No, they won’t do this because it makes the skill floor to high for new players. I mean…wtf? You want to dumb everything down just for new players, people can adjust faster then you think. Besides you should allow a high skill ceiling to allow different levels of skill which then translates in the league-system (we might get in a year or two). This way the casuals who can’t handle micro’ing their pet play against other who can’t. But atleast PLAYERS CAN STILL IMPROVE. Keyword = IMPROVE. This is so essential for any game, it’s a reward progression in itself.

Btw… A ranger couldn’t micro a pet (extra 4 or 5 skills)? Better delete Ele or atleast it’s attunements.

Another example of contradicting visions. We want to boost shoutcasting and obviously twitch viewership and the like. Because…esports!!
But you need a casual playerbase who gets intrested in these. And for that it needs to be ingame (because those people actually PLAY the game). Either that or make your competitive playerbase huge, but that only happens with an even bigger casual playerpool (obviously). And you can do both. Implement automated tournaments (daily/weekly/monthly) and host only those in the observer mode. The rest (player-run tournaments) can be hosted on twitch, while also shoutcasting the others. Because…. why not have both?

And about those automated tournaments. You said you want monthly consistency in this SOTG but it seemed like you’re going to partner with MLG/ESL, etc for these. This isn’t casual friendly again. But tournaments aren’t meant for casuals you might say? I used to play in the daily AT’s in GW1 a lot with my casual pvp guild. We played in without planning it, signing up beforehand, basicly whenever we wanted without a barrier of entry. That’s how you pull casuals into competitive pvp.

Another day in gw2, another mind boggled.

I lost hope to Jon after this SOTG. They don’t listen to anything !
I’m a sad panda

Fishbait.6723:

“Elementalists only use one attunement, fire” J.Sharp 2013

LOL!

Is….. Is he kidding? Please tell me that was a joke……. Please…

Durzlla.6295:

Fishbait.6723:

“Elementalists only use one attunement, fire” J.Sharp 2013

LOL!

Is….. Is he kidding? Please tell me that was a joke……. Please…

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/elementalist/SOTG-6-9-2013/first#post2790231

Durzlla.6295:

Is….. Is he kidding? Please tell me that was a joke……. Please…

Context is key.

Fishbait.6723:

“Elementalists only use one attunement, fire” J.Sharp 2013

LOL!

Xeph.4513:

Fishbait.6723:

“Elementalists only use one attunement, fire” J.Sharp 2013

LOL!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gs069dndIYk

You linked three attunements, you sir are OP!
I believe this is yours

J. Sharp best ele world.

I lol’ed so hard.
Btw. there was so much “We thinking/talked/considered (about) that” flying around, that I actually dont know what they plan to do in order to decrease this masses loss of players. Only thing I remember is that Karl is working on tooltip fixes (another big lol), while the whole competitive pvp is literally dead. Arenanet seems to have a very good priority list … but actually pve seems to be more important and they need this tooltip fixes urgently.

Ok back to CSS surf I guess ;-)

Its still so insulting that they don’t think new players can use new skills. Lets all just be pure rng, that teaches new players every skill they need. And after the stuff he said about rangers they might as well completely get rid of engi and ele as they obviously don’t see us as possible professions.

Also if the devs think this about rangers I wonder how BADLY they play themselves.

The answer to every question was: is on the list, we are going to do it, we are talking about doing x to solve it, we can’t talk about it right now but we have something for that or we won’t do it because it’s costly.
No Estimated Times ever. It’s hard to hype with just words for a whole year.

JinDaVikk.7291:

Its still so insulting that they don’t think new players can use new skills. Lets all just be pure rng, that teaches new players every skill they need. And after the stuff he said about rangers they might as well completely get rid of engi and ele as they obviously don’t see us as possible professions.

Also if the devs think this about rangers I wonder how BADLY they play themselves.

That reminds me of the dunning and kruger effect. It’s possible the skill ceiling/floor is using the dev team own skill as a reference. Now where the Anet dev team ranks themselves would be interesting.

From the GW1 GvG/HA days when their devs would scrim the player base. They were around the average of the skill curve, not awful not great.

i cant believe what he is saying be a simple fact… maybe they looking or talking about something but every update shows that they dont change anything.. as example look the latest patch. pve daily give u essence of luck to your account-magicfind-thing. so that means every pvp player has a gap that is getting higher.

the same goes for pve-event-skins. it cant be that hard to implement that a tourneychest dropps the pvp-version with some luck.

maybe in the far future we get something but then all that skins we might want are gone or we need to spend still time in pve to get them.

btw thx super for bringing up question from the forum.. at least one who talks for all of us.

and 1 thing for jonathan sharp.. the 1 question regarding pve patches its not only the lags that prevents playing. if a patch goes “life” u cant enter any pvp-servers for some hours until the clients starts finally to load the patch. thats annoying. so pve ppl can still play until the timer ticks, but pvp player just can stand in the mists and restart and restart and restart and restart and hope to finally get at some time the new version.

Finally watched this, well first half of it; I actually enjoyed the balance discussion at the start especially the conversation about conditions, mesmers, and warriors.

S/D thief is going to lose either its boon or damage aspect, to some degree. Glad to hear that. And damage will be going down across the board, not just buffing defense or the offense of classes like mesmers and elementalists. Also good to hear.

Targetting changes that ignore mesmer clones, good also. This is coming on the October patch right?

Vena.8436:

Durzlla.6295:

Is….. Is he kidding? Please tell me that was a joke……. Please…

Context is key.

This is the spvp forums, context doesn’t matter because a dev said it.

J sharp: To be fair people were complaining about op warriors the day you buffed the heals. Changing zerker stance isn’t what made the waterworks start but buffing the heals did. Your one month delay theory isn’t correct in this example.

The warrior’s newly buffed sustain was the last piece of the puzzle.
Ofcourse once that was buffed Warriors are seeing play again. It doesn’t take a genius to figure that out.

HPLT.7132:

J. Sharp best ele world.

I lol’ed so hard.

The toughest thing about their balance discussion is the confusion between class and spec. When people ask about ele being stuck on its knees for so long, the devs think “oh the s/d spec that has a ton of instant damage! That spec can be powerful if they don’t have to fight a class like necro/spirit-ranger/s-d thief”

However, when people ask about ele, they don’t mean the poor-man’s magic-thief with less survivability. They mean the class more like the d/d or other blanced-type spec that had good survivability and decent sustained damage (not asking to go back to the full-bunker spec, just something closer to that). The sustain has been obliterated (decreased healing, cleanse, stun-breaks, and destroyed mobility) and ele now has almost no survivability in pvp/wvw, even in the most-defensive spec. You will not see anything other than a support build or a stupid pseudo-thief (and then why not just take BS theif) build until the current amount of sustain is more accessible and/or the damage capabilities are buffed in some way.

Nikkle.4013:

Vena.8436:

Durzlla.6295:

Is….. Is he kidding? Please tell me that was a joke……. Please…

Context is key.

This is the spvp forums, context doesn’t matter because a dev said it.

J sharp: To be fair people were complaining about op warriors the day you buffed the heals. Changing zerker stance isn’t what made the waterworks start but buffing the heals did. Your one month delay theory isn’t correct in this example.

Well people were selling what he said as in “that’s how good eles play!!” Now that I have the kittening context what he said makes A LOT more sense.

Fishbait.6723:

“Elementalists only use one attunement, fire” J.Sharp 2013

LOL!

he was talkin about pve elementalist , at least from what i understood , since he mentinioned few sec later dungeons.

Alugjen Darlas.5329:

Fishbait.6723:

“Elementalists only use one attunement, fire” J.Sharp 2013

LOL!

he was talkin about pve elementalist , at least from what i understood , since he mentinioned few sec later dungeons.

But he was asked about rangers in spvp, on a podcast/stream purely about spvp.
Dungeons/raids etc should never of come into the conversation, whether it was ele used as an example or not.
Even then, Ele should really swap as often as they can, even if it isn`t worth the key mashing.
I know he gets confused easily though, in a past one someone asked about the state of conjured weapons, then he proceeded to talk about air elementals etc.

Basically he said some pve players find it dificult to play elementalist or engineer because they have more skills, so they don’t want to add more skills to ranger. He also says this pve players, don’t properly use attunement swap because they stay in an attunement and spam (like they are in fire attunement to do damage and they only change water to heal).

The important point here is they don’t change things because of the PvE consequences. And this point is totally valid to leave gw2 if you only PvP like lots of players (not enough tho to dedicate resourse to us).

BlackBeard.2873:

HPLT.7132:

J. Sharp best ele world.

I lol’ed so hard.

The toughest thing about their balance discussion is the confusion between class and spec. When people ask about ele being stuck on its knees for so long, the devs think “oh the s/d spec that has a ton of instant damage! That spec can be powerful if they don’t have to fight a class like necro/spirit-ranger/s-d thief”

However, when people ask about ele, they don’t mean the poor-man’s magic-thief with less survivability. They mean the class more like the d/d or other blanced-type spec that had good survivability and decent sustained damage (not asking to go back to the full-bunker spec, just something closer to that). The sustain has been obliterated (decreased healing, cleanse, stun-breaks, and destroyed mobility) and ele now has almost no survivability in pvp/wvw, even in the most-defensive spec. You will not see anything other than a support build or a stupid pseudo-thief (and then why not just take BS theif) build until the current amount of sustain is more accessible and/or the damage capabilities are buffed in some way.

yeah agree with u. the balance team is kinda superficial like that. i mention mesmer and everyone in spvp thinks of 2 cheese builds(phantasm/shatter). it is true mesmers have a lot of tools to be s-class in spvp. we got stealths,blink, phantasms, shatters, but the thing is, this only works well in a 1v1 situation, but is terrible in wvw! clones die before they reach the target, phantasms fail a lot. we cant go glass at all as apart from roaming(that s a little like spvp) there is a ton of siege, tons of conditions, mass cc, mass cleansing and of course warriors do well as they have good dps, good toughness, good swiftness, good, cleansing, great stability, great healing, great aoe dmg. mesmers got…portal, veil, tw and massinvis(all passive, all not damaging, all just a utility to support warriors)
same with ele. all they see is d/d spec, but because they have aoe, they can at least tag in a zerg and take down siege.
honestly, i wish they nerf phantasm and shatterer to kitten if this is what it takes to give us more buffs and options for gvg zvz.

People have to realise that high skill ceiling does not imply that the game is unfriendly to casuals. For gods sake, take for example Chess. That game is easy for a new person to learn and for a casual player to enjoy, yet it still has almost limitless skill ceiling.

He also says this pve players, don’t properly use attunement swap because they stay in an attunement and spam (like they are in fire attunement to do damage and they only change water to heal).

The devs are so incredibely stupid. Why in the hell would you bother swapping attuments in pve? Autoattack on, alt tab to Facebook, alt tab back, loot. People don’t swap attuments because they are lazy and because they don’t have to, not because they were too stupid to do so.

I really think the devs don’t play their own game. Swapping attuments like hell and thinking on your foot (you know, d/d ele pvp style) is simply not effective in PvE. Sitting on fire and focusing on timing your dodges just has better effort/reward ratio.

Should we take this comment from the dev as an insult or just their stupidity?

They consider the ranger class a new player class; all of us can’t play a class with more than 2 things to do at once apparently.

The skill ceiling on other classes can go up, but hell if you change diaper mode ranger passives.

They don’t get that ranged dps fighters WANT to be very active in fights. Instead, the skillfull ranger community is passed off as new players with no ability.

They take an already passive role, and through traits and pet AI make it even worse.

Master of Timespace.2548:

People have to realise that high skill ceiling does not imply that the game is unfriendly to casuals. For gods sake, take for example Chess. That game is easy for a new person to learn and for a casual player to enjoy, yet it still has almost limitless skill ceiling.

He also says this pve players, don’t properly use attunement swap because they stay in an attunement and spam (like they are in fire attunement to do damage and they only change water to heal).

The devs are so incredibely stupid. Why in the hell would you bother swapping attuments in pve? Autoattack on, alt tab to Facebook, alt tab back, loot. People don’t swap attuments because they are lazy and because they don’t have to, not because they were too stupid to do so.

I really think the devs don’t play their own game. Swapping attuments like hell and thinking on your foot (you know, d/d ele pvp style) is simply not effective in PvE. Sitting on fire and focusing on timing your dodges just has better effort/reward ratio.

While I’m sure they don’t appreciate the tone, I agree with all your points. Why am I not swapping in PvE? Because your PvE content doesn’t demand it. I tend not to swap just for the hell of it.

Master of Timespace.2548:

(you know, d/d ele pvp style) is simply not effective in PvE.

what are you talking about, now its s/d ele pvp style, and it is effective in pve, d/d is effective in pve too. i play with ele who runs d/d and s/d in fotm48 who did a amazing job. and personally i play a d/d ele in pve too.

Sigh, ranger can already have full control of their pet we just have to use our F3 to stop them from going doing whatever it is we want them to do. I swear I press F3 and F1 more than my own skills sometimes. So, if I can already control my pet 100% by trudging through hell why not just let us do it without having to remember what attack is next in my pets chain?

Best quote.

Jon Sharp: If you watch a lot of the PvE players who play an Ele, they a lot of times will stay in one element, maybe two. They don’t use all four, its just too much for them to play. They’ll stay in fire and just DPS stuff. They’ll switch to water and try to heal up. They don’t play all four. It is actually really hard for them to play unfortunately.

PvE players confirmed for scum of the earth and should be culled to preserve a decent gene pool. =D

And there’s this freaking mess, it was 1 spirit ranger and 2 MM necros

Edit: I cant even see the second necro

The key is low skill floor and high skill ceiling. They tend to focus on one or do not try to make the space between the two bigger.

Exile.8160:

And there’s this freaking mess it was 1 spirit ranger and 2 MM necros

The first thing I see when I look at that is the “You are now entering the twilight zone” opening.

But but but..if eles get away with using 1 attunement in pve then why pve rangers wont get away with not fully utilising all their F skills if they implement it?? :P
Seriously though..skill floor increase is a sad excuse.This game isnt hard at all and not even the hardest classes are hard when you compare it to other games and genres that are popular.They just dont have the resources,motivation and power to pull something as big as that.Cause it will be indeed a very hard thing to do cause it would require rebalancing the whole ranger proffession..
Besides we all have seen what is the game skill of an average gw2 developer,right?
Every time they stream those pve events we see their gaming skill in their whole glory!! clicking,no binds,slow reactions ..no wonder why this game has things like autoturning and autotracking for leaps and passives..its full of casual pvers,from its playerbase up to its core of development team

That argument against more Ranger Pet skills…really ?
I played WoW and Aion and there were a kitten-ton more of skills to use at any time.
Just having 2-3 won’t be hard.
(At first maybe in WvW/PvE due to the state of ranger in there, but it will be fine after a bit of time)

If they are truly unwilling to give the ranger more control over their pets (thereby creating a more interactive playstyle and raising the skill ceiling), then it’s time for a rework of the way the mechanic currently functions, since at this point it’s just a mechanic that’s tacked on damage with a fairly RNG rotation that maybe has a utility function here and there every once in awhile.

It’s taking a mechanic that is despised in competitive games; AI damage sources, and not only magnifying, but forcing players into a playstyle choice while limiting the ability to do things within that forced playstyle that seem like they should be more than possible. On top of that, the current rendition of ranger pets is something that’s hard to balance around.

The pet is supposed to be always out, and always “helping” (DPS’ing and maybe using a semi useful F2 every once in awhile when the pet feels like it), and the ranger is supposed to be made to work with the pet to be as effective as possible. So now, you can’t give the ranger player better tools, because combined with the pet, it would be too strong, but you can’t give the pet better tools, because people don’t like fighting against strong AI in a competitive mode that’s supposed to be player skill vs player skill, and not player skill vs pet AI and player skill.

So, maybe I’m looking at it wrong, but when you hit the point where you can’t give the player more useful tools without making the class too strong, but you can’t give the pet more options because it would either make the pet too strong, or operating the class “too hard;” then it’s time to redesign the mechanic.

Fishbait.6723:

“Elementalists only use one attunement, fire” J.Sharp 2013

LOL!

He was talking about pve elementalists…

no pet skill use because pve players would be to stupid for this?! serious, what a bad joke.

there would be no problem for ranger players to press something like f2 and have the pet skills on the skill bar and when press f2 again have the weapon skills back…
then just make the pet do there skill instant when u press the button and well done.
this would be for sure not to hard for the “noobs”
in this game each class have not much skills and is fast to learn but “hard to master”

with this changes engi and ele still would have more skills to use then a ranger.
engi and ele is most fun to play classes atm, just because more skills.
i whant play a rpg game there with much self skill use!

also give the much passive crap finaly a cooldown bar.
for example i whant to see when my passive stun break or the empathic bond on ranger is rdy and not on cooldown…

edit:
and whats with the power ranger builds now
and more active condi clean on ranger.
there was a sotg with battosai, was this speak just
for nothing or will something like this come finaly? -.-

longbow and longsword still crap.
the pet shout skills still crap
30% of traits still crap or in wrong trait line
trapper traits in wrong trait line, trapper ranger is for sure not viable atm!

ranger have just one working build and
there ppls speak about op, nice joke.

make trapper viable again and im fine, i also dont like the spirit and bm passive builds.
just give ranger a power build and for condi trapper build back.

for bm ranger the pet controll would be so nice, then this build would be fun to play and not only a passive build

Any video up from the Sotg yet?

Boomstin.3460:

Any video up from the Sotg yet?

http://www.twitch.tv/guildwars2guru/b/457365711

@Boomstin:
http://www.twitch.tv/guildwars2guru/c/2883614

Having actually watched the video I don’t think that some of the negativity on this thread is justified.

I do agree with the general sentiment that the skill floor of the Ranger should be raised along with the skill ceiling. Trying to play one after having levelled my Engineer and Elementalist made me fall asleep at the keyboard. I don’t think that Jonathan Sharp is correct in this instance for keeping the pet mechanic as it is.

WRT The Ranger issue: 50:15 is where the discussion starts
I do think that there was some kind of misunderstanding on the side of Jonathan Sharp though. I believe that his response was with regards to Vonethils original proposal, which was to add an extra skill button for Rangers to do clutch knockdowns and fears and so on instead of tying it to the pet.

Obviously this then led to the reaction by Sharp and Grouch to shut that down and cite skill floor reasons and balance issues for Rangers getting another cooldown to use dependant upon the pet.

I believe that their original answer – WRT making the AI work a lot better and be a lot more responsive – is probably what people should be looking for instead. On this, I believe that both the community and Sharp have agreement, and there is a programmer working on tightening up the AI such that the Fear or the Knockdown or whatever is on point when you click the button.

I am disappointed that there was little mention of the matchmaking, fixes to Skyhammer, and fixes to the Leaderboards however. The talks about the new reward systems was heartening, but QoL must go hand in hand with new features.
You don’t just release something half-baked and leave it for months.

I would be willing to play tPvP even with this meta on something difficult like Power Engineer or D/D Ele, if I were more assured that I would be getting fair matches and a fair go, rewards be kitten ed.

I think the pvp devs have forgotten D/D exists. They use S/D to say the class is fine, and say they’ll be buffing staff to be more viable, but never any mention about the state of D/D. It is so rare to see a D/D in spvp/wvw now. Almost all eles have switched to the other weapons. I see as many staff eles as I do D/D eles. But are they going to give the elementalist the class wide improvements that are needed so all weaponsets can be viable? Nope. They’re going to give staff a couple superficial buffs and call it good.

The most depressing thing about this game is that it has so much potential but everything it could be is kitten ed away by these clueless, skillless, incompetent developers who shouldn’t have been let anywhere near a project of this scale. I think these guys will be in for a real surprise when an actual PVP mmo comes out and their numbers stop looking so good when they are actually competing instead of getting a free ride.

Well, i can anwer those questions for you and i’m 80% that the answer i give you will be the same answer they will give you in the State of the Game:

Pick one of those: is on the list, we are going to do it, we are talking about doing x to solve it, we can’t talk about it right now but we have something for that.

I think that they cant add another skill in pets,not that they dont want..It more than obvious that Rangers should have their skill floor raised.And its more than obvious that after a week (maybe less) a new player will get used to the new skill button.
As we all know they dont have the resources to do it..
The want to do priorize other fixes first (like tooltip corrections) and maybe in 1 year (if anyone is still playing) we will see some more action in pet management.
For now lets stick to pressing 1111111111