Guild Wars 2

Currently stealth prevents contributing to point capture and holding in PVP, but I’ve been thinking that should not be the case. Unlike other abilities that prevent point contribution, stealth doesn’t make the user invulnerable, just invisible to other players, and the user can still be hit with any and all attacks and abilities.

I realize the main point against it would be that defenders would not be able to tell if there is a person stealthily attacking their point, or attackers that there is a person defending and wondering why it’s not ticking down, but that issue can easily be resolved. An idea I came up with was an indicator on the point when there is a conflict of 2 opposing sides on it, for example, the outer ring of the point could turn white and start blinking.

I would love to see a stealth change come into the PVP, especially because some classes heavily rely on it as their main form of defense, like core Thief and Mesmer.
I’d like to hear others’ opinion on this.

This would be broken beyond belief on thieves.

Yup, this would be broken and create a giant outrage.

OriOri.8724:

This would be broken beyond belief on thieves.

I honestly don’t see how it would be broken. Could you be more detailed as in why you think this would be too strong on thieves?

Perma stealth thieves. Its pure bullkitten that someone could decap/cap a point, or even just contest it for that matter, if you can’t even see them. Being forced to lay down an AoE skill, which not all classes even have one that can cover an entire node for that matter, just to “fight” because you can’t see them is stupid and broken.

Imagine this, an invisible player making you park on a node indefinitely because he or she is stealthed 100% of the time and you cannot tell if he or she is near the node or not. Also, being stealthed prevents you from being hit by most attacks in the game (generally speaking, there have been some cases of hitting stealthed players with steal). If you are sealthed an capturing a node, there would be no stopping you.

OriOri.8724:

Perma stealth thieves. Its pure bullkitten that someone could decap/cap a point, or even just contest it for that matter, if you can’t even see them. Being forced to lay down an AoE skill, which not all classes even have one that can cover an entire node for that matter, just to “fight” because you can’t see them is stupid and broken.

You aren’t “forced” to put down an AOE just to fight, you can hit a thief in stealth with any skill if you aim it right, even ranged AA chains. Also, the thief cannot fight you back lest he’s risking being revealed and bursted down, so you can just cleave them and whiltle them down just as you would any other “bunker”, since most build surely can out-DPS SR’s healing. Or, you can force them off the point or out of stealth with controll skills .

Poelala.2830:

Imagine this, an invisible player making you park on a node indefinitely because he or she is stealthed 100% of the time and you cannot tell if he or she is near the node or not. Also, being stealthed prevents you from being hit by most attacks in the game (generally speaking, there have been some cases of hitting stealthed players with steal). If you are sealthed an capturing a node, there would be no stopping you.

you can still attack the Thief if you now where he is, even if he is in stealth. Every skill in the game, even ranged AA chains can hit stealthed enemies, there are plenty of ways to deal with this, since thief couldn’t be able to do anything else but stay in stealth, eventually forcing him off the point.

Edit: also, I’ve suggested how it would be possible to tell if a player is stealthed and on a node. its in the fist post

The problem would be that team wipes on mid, wiped teams thief goes perma stealth(35 seconds max not perma), and till that time enemy cant decap cos point contribution, so i say this as a thief main that would be op, howerver a slower decapping contribution might be something, cos its kinda annoying u cant go stealth for a sec cos enemy decaps, also if enemy evades or mblind your backstabb, u gonna stay in stealth for so long time the point will be decapped

thanks to 1 sec cd to stealth attacks all hail anet

Menyus.4610:

The problem would be that team wipes on mid, wiped teams thief goes perma stealth(35 seconds max not perma), and till that time enemy cant decap cos point contribution, so i say this as a thief main that would be op, howerver a slower decapping contribution might be something, cos its kinda annoying u cant go stealth for a sec cos enemy decaps, also if enemy evades or mblind your backstabb, u gonna stay in stealth for so long time the point will be decapped

As I’ve said before, you can still attack and damage the thief if he’s in stealth. Better yet, if the whole enemy team is there at mid, that thief would go down in seconds, even full tank, simply from the AOE and cleave. I don’t see a problem at all.

Heck, I agree, even partial contribution sound better than how it is now.

NaXorb.9732:

OriOri.8724:

Perma stealth thieves. Its pure bullkitten that someone could decap/cap a point, or even just contest it for that matter, if you can’t even see them. Being forced to lay down an AoE skill, which not all classes even have one that can cover an entire node for that matter, just to “fight” because you can’t see them is stupid and broken.

You aren’t “forced” to put down an AOE just to fight, you can hit a thief in stealth with any skill if you aim it right, even ranged AA chains. Also, the thief cannot fight you back lest he’s risking being revealed and bursted down, so you can just cleave them and whiltle them down just as you would any other “bunker”, since most build surely can out-DPS SR’s healing. Or, you can force them off the point or out of stealth with controll skills .

yeah you can cleave empty air like a insane cuz point is contested….. makes sense….
and when you put all your skills on cd thieve apears and oneshots you…. really makes sense

megilandil.7506:

NaXorb.9732:

OriOri.8724:

Perma stealth thieves. Its pure bullkitten that someone could decap/cap a point, or even just contest it for that matter, if you can’t even see them. Being forced to lay down an AoE skill, which not all classes even have one that can cover an entire node for that matter, just to “fight” because you can’t see them is stupid and broken.

You aren’t “forced” to put down an AOE just to fight, you can hit a thief in stealth with any skill if you aim it right, even ranged AA chains. Also, the thief cannot fight you back lest he’s risking being revealed and bursted down, so you can just cleave them and whiltle them down just as you would any other “bunker”, since most build surely can out-DPS SR’s healing. Or, you can force them off the point or out of stealth with controll skills .

yeah you can cleave empty air like a insane cuz point is contested….. makes sense….
and when you put all your skills on cd thieve apears and oneshots you…. really makes sense

I don’t recall thieves being able to one shot anyone in pvp for a couple of years now (at best against light armored targets you’ll get around 4-5k damage), and besides there’s no need to spam skills. Keep a cool head and AA, once he goes for a backstab he’s out in the open and vulnerable.

NaXorb.9732:

OriOri.8724:

Perma stealth thieves. Its pure bullkitten that someone could decap/cap a point, or even just contest it for that matter, if you can’t even see them. Being forced to lay down an AoE skill, which not all classes even have one that can cover an entire node for that matter, just to “fight” because you can’t see them is stupid and broken.

You aren’t “forced” to put down an AOE just to fight, you can hit a thief in stealth with any skill if you aim it right, even ranged AA chains. Also, the thief cannot fight you back lest he’s risking being revealed and bursted down, so you can just cleave them and whiltle them down just as you would any other “bunker”, since most build surely can out-DPS SR’s healing. Or, you can force them off the point or out of stealth with controll skills .

How, exactly do you propose to “aim it right” if you can’t even see them? That’s not aiming. That’s blindly swinging at the air and hoping to god the thief is dumb enough to not be watching you and walking in a circle around you.

@Menyus is on a much better track here. If you were allowed to contest a point in stealth, you should only be able to contest it for 1 second after going into stealth. No capping, no decapping in stealth, but you could prevent someone from the other team from capping it for 1 second after entering stealth. Give this a 10-15 sec ICD so the thief can’t just stall forever by popping in and out of stealth.

OriOri.8724:

NaXorb.9732:

OriOri.8724:

Perma stealth thieves. Its pure bullkitten that someone could decap/cap a point, or even just contest it for that matter, if you can’t even see them. Being forced to lay down an AoE skill, which not all classes even have one that can cover an entire node for that matter, just to “fight” because you can’t see them is stupid and broken.

You aren’t “forced” to put down an AOE just to fight, you can hit a thief in stealth with any skill if you aim it right, even ranged AA chains. Also, the thief cannot fight you back lest he’s risking being revealed and bursted down, so you can just cleave them and whiltle them down just as you would any other “bunker”, since most build surely can out-DPS SR’s healing. Or, you can force them off the point or out of stealth with controll skills .

How, exactly do you propose to “aim it right” if you can’t even see them? That’s not aiming. That’s blindly swinging at the air and hoping to god the thief is dumb enough to not be watching you and walking in a circle around you.

@Menyus is on a much better track here. If you were allowed to contest a point in stealth, you should only be able to contest it for 1 second after going into stealth. No capping, no decapping in stealth, but you could prevent someone from the other team from capping it for 1 second after entering stealth. Give this a 10-15 sec ICD so the thief can’t just stall forever by popping in and out of stealth.

You can always tell the general location of the thief based on the black powder, refuge and other effects in their wake, even better if they CnD because then you know their exact location.
And how do you “Aim it right”? Try predicting where the thief will be, it’s not that hard.

I think that allowing stealthed player to cap/decap will bring a mass Revealed distrubution among all classes.

Vitali.5039:

I think that allowing stealthed player to cap/decap will bring a mass Revealed distrubution among all classes.

I’m OK with that. Play and counter-play. In fact, I’d like to see that.

If you’re interested, cast shadow refuge and see the proportion of people that can actually force you out of 240 radius without AoE.

Ofc players can always goes against your advice and burn AoE, but then your argument lost its purpose isn’kitten

This is a dead conversation from the start. Game has been like this for a really long time and there’s no reason to change it.

Something like stepping in a light or fire field apply 3s Revealed should work?

NICENIKESHOE.7128:

If you’re interested, cast shadow refuge and see the proportion of people that can actually force you out of 240 radius without AoE.

Ofc players can always goes against your advice and burn AoE, but then your argument lost its purpose isn’kitten

This is a dead conversation from the start. Game has been like this for a really long time and there’s no reason to change it.

Any smart player will be able to force a thief out of the SR, that’s why it hasn’t been used for years in pvp.
Ofc, you shouldn’t “burn” AOE to find a stealthed player, i never said that. You should keep it cool and predict where they are. This separates the good players and those who panic easily.
I know the game has been like this from the start. But, that doesn’t change the fact that the way it is it put several proffesions at a disadvantage, and hurts build and role diversity

Vitali.5039:

Something like stepping in a light or fire field apply 3s Revealed should work?

XD I do believe this would be a bit overboard, but, each profession having a reliable and accessible reveal is OK to me.

NaXorb.9732:

You aren’t “forced” to put down an AOE just to fight, you can hit a thief in stealth with any skill if you aim it right, even ranged AA chains. Also, the thief cannot fight you back lest he’s risking being revealed and bursted down, so you can just cleave them and whiltle them down just as you would any other “bunker”, since most build surely can out-DPS SR’s healing. Or, you can force them off the point or out of stealth with controll skills .

Your argumentaton sounds like you play this game since one week.

There is no counterplay to stealthcapping. Teef has the highest mobility in the game. If he gets revealed he shadowsteps away. Put two thieves in one team. The first one baits reveals and AOEs and then disengages. Now the second one takes his place on node while the first one recovers. If the enemy team lands a lucky hit and pressures him he disengages and the first thief returns to the node.

This is a mechanic we should think about? Dumping AOEs and reveals on node hoping to land a lucky punch? Are you serious?

Yes make stealth contribute to point capture, and then let everyone feel the pain of WvW roamers over 4 years, with ghost thieves, and PU condi mesmers. More fuel to the thief nerfbat. Do it Anet. -insert Kappa here-

NaXorb.9732:

Currently stealth prevents contributing to point capture and holding in PVP, but I’ve been thinking that should not be the case. Unlike other abilities that prevent point contribution, stealth doesn’t make the user invulnerable, just invisible to other players, and the user can still be hit with any and all attacks and abilities.

I realize the main point against it would be that defenders would not be able to tell if there is a person stealthily attacking their point, or attackers that there is a person defending and wondering why it’s not ticking down, but that issue can easily be resolved. An idea I came up with was an indicator on the point when there is a conflict of 2 opposing sides on it, for example, the outer ring of the point could turn white and start blinking.

I would love to see a stealth change come into the PVP, especially because some classes heavily rely on it as their main form of defense, like core Thief and Mesmer.
I’d like to hear others’ opinion on this.

if u want stealth to be able to contest points,

then make them blur like in sc2, so we can see them if we try hard enough.

unlike now they are 100% transparent.

how about make thief users’ screen completely blacked out during stealth because that’s how actual invisibility would work? (invisibility being lack of visible light both to and from the stealthed)

that makes about as much sense as what you suggested.

This used to be the case. It was removed because it was bad.

Stealth has no counterplay in this game other than swinging wildly in the air hoping to hit something.

Most classes don’t have skills that can be used without a targeted opponent, let alone ones with low cd and that do enough damage to pressure a stealthed unit out.

Stealth in this game is the most broken it has ever been of any game.

It’s why WvW is invaded by thieves and PU mesmers. Stealth is a spammable invulnerability since it stops most classes from being able to apply damage and allows easy repositioning.

In the case of thief it’s even worse because backstab rewards stealth spam.

Imagine a warrior’s arcing slice or eviscerate having no telegraph or being completely invisible. That’s backstab in a nutshell.

Thieves don’t do this in spvp because this decaps the point for them.

If thieves could use stealth in spvp, they’d be as broken as they are in WvW.

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

NaXorb.9732:

Currently stealth prevents contributing to point capture and holding in PVP, but I’ve been thinking that should not be the case. Unlike other abilities that prevent point contribution, stealth doesn’t make the user invulnerable, just invisible to other players, and the user can still be hit with any and all attacks and abilities.

I realize the main point against it would be that defenders would not be able to tell if there is a person stealthily attacking their point, or attackers that there is a person defending and wondering why it’s not ticking down, but that issue can easily be resolved. An idea I came up with was an indicator on the point when there is a conflict of 2 opposing sides on it, for example, the outer ring of the point could turn white and start blinking.

I would love to see a stealth change come into the PVP, especially because some classes heavily rely on it as their main form of defense, like core Thief and Mesmer.
I’d like to hear others’ opinion on this.

if u want stealth to be able to contest points,

then make them blur like in sc2, so we can see them if we try hard enough.

unlike now they are 100% transparent.

I’ve been thinking about this too, it might also be a good idea.

Lucentfir.7430:

Yes make stealth contribute to point capture, and then let everyone feel the pain of WvW roamers over 4 years, with ghost thieves, and PU condi mesmers. More fuel to the thief nerfbat. Do it Anet. -insert Kappa here-

No one said anything about WvW, I suggested the change to PvP only. Yes, it would be too strong with WvW’s huge nodes, but in PvP’s small ones it should not be a problem,

KrHome.1920:

NaXorb.9732:

You aren’t “forced” to put down an AOE just to fight, you can hit a thief in stealth with any skill if you aim it right, even ranged AA chains. Also, the thief cannot fight you back lest he’s risking being revealed and bursted down, so you can just cleave them and whiltle them down just as you would any other “bunker”, since most build surely can out-DPS SR’s healing. Or, you can force them off the point or out of stealth with controll skills .

Your argumentaton sounds like you play this game since one week.

There is no counterplay to stealthcapping. Teef has the highest mobility in the game. If he gets revealed he shadowsteps away. Put two thieves in one team. The first one baits reveals and AOEs and then disengages. Now the second one takes his place on node while the first one recovers. If the enemy team lands a lucky hit and pressures him he disengages and the first thief returns to the node.

This is a mechanic we should think about? Dumping AOEs and reveals on node hoping to land a lucky punch? Are you serious?

That scenario seems no different than having any other 2 bunkers rotating a point. And I do think this is a mechanic to think about. And it would create a difference between players wasting abilities and players who actually know how to find the stealthed player.
yep, I’m serious

No. This used to be the case but as ithilwen stated above it was removed eventually.

NaXorb.9732:

KrHome.1920:

NaXorb.9732:

You aren’t “forced” to put down an AOE just to fight, you can hit a thief in stealth with any skill if you aim it right, even ranged AA chains. Also, the thief cannot fight you back lest he’s risking being revealed and bursted down, so you can just cleave them and whiltle them down just as you would any other “bunker”, since most build surely can out-DPS SR’s healing. Or, you can force them off the point or out of stealth with controll skills .

Your argumentaton sounds like you play this game since one week.

There is no counterplay to stealthcapping. Teef has the highest mobility in the game. If he gets revealed he shadowsteps away. Put two thieves in one team. The first one baits reveals and AOEs and then disengages. Now the second one takes his place on node while the first one recovers. If the enemy team lands a lucky hit and pressures him he disengages and the first thief returns to the node.

This is a mechanic we should think about? Dumping AOEs and reveals on node hoping to land a lucky punch? Are you serious?

That scenario seems no different than having any other 2 bunkers rotating a point. And I do think this is a mechanic to think about. And it would create a difference between players wasting abilities and players who actually know how to find the stealthed player.
yep, I’m serious

There is no finding a stealthed player lol, much less a thief with 6+ dodges and teleports to avoid being hit by stealth detection from revenants or engineers which are the only classes who can do so.

It just so happens thief beats both of those classes after the nerfs to them.

And bunkers don’t 3 shot people.

look. just think about the level of understanding of gw2 pvp you have to have to actually make this thread.

now think about how likely it is that you’re going go be able to convince somone operating at this level that they are wrong.

now ask yourself why you’re bothering.

Zenith.7301:

Stealth has no counterplay in this game other than swinging wildly in the air hoping to hit something.

Most classes don’t have skills that can be used without a targeted opponent, let alone ones with low cd and that do enough damage to pressure a stealthed unit out.

Stealth in this game is the most broken it has ever been of any game.

It’s why WvW is invaded by thieves and PU mesmers. Stealth is a spammable invulnerability since it stops most classes from being able to apply damage and allows easy repositioning.

In the case of thief it’s even worse because backstab rewards stealth spam.

Imagine a warrior’s arcing slice or eviscerate having no telegraph or being completely invisible. That’s backstab in a nutshell.

Thieves don’t do this in spvp because this decaps the point for them.

If thieves could use stealth in spvp, they’d be as broken as they are in WvW.

There is plenty counterplay to stealth, not just swinging wildly.
Any skill that can be used without a direct target (anything that is not, for example, like Mesmers’ Arcane Thievery) can be used against a stealthed target, even ranged AAs.
Stealth is not an invulnerability, it does allow for repositioning, but, you can still do damage to the stealthed player.
Stealth is hardly more broken than in other games, unlike most games, GW2 stalth lasts relatively short.
You can predict the backstab as well, if you know the thief has the dagger as the main weapon, it’s certain he will go for a backstab after stealthing, and you can act accordingly.
A proffesion’s main defense mechanic decapping an objective is exactly the reason I started this thread. It seems unfair.
Lastly, I don’t think thieves are broken in WvW, and this change would’t make them broken. The main reason thieves are stronger in WvW is their damage and burst is stronger due to better equipment, not because they can stealth freely.

Edit: corrected my mistake, I meant to say any skill except for the ones like Arcane Thievery)

Zenith.7301:

NaXorb.9732:

KrHome.1920:

NaXorb.9732:

You aren’t “forced” to put down an AOE just to fight, you can hit a thief in stealth with any skill if you aim it right, even ranged AA chains. Also, the thief cannot fight you back lest he’s risking being revealed and bursted down, so you can just cleave them and whiltle them down just as you would any other “bunker”, since most build surely can out-DPS SR’s healing. Or, you can force them off the point or out of stealth with controll skills .

Your argumentaton sounds like you play this game since one week.

There is no counterplay to stealthcapping. Teef has the highest mobility in the game. If he gets revealed he shadowsteps away. Put two thieves in one team. The first one baits reveals and AOEs and then disengages. Now the second one takes his place on node while the first one recovers. If the enemy team lands a lucky hit and pressures him he disengages and the first thief returns to the node.

This is a mechanic we should think about? Dumping AOEs and reveals on node hoping to land a lucky punch? Are you serious?

That scenario seems no different than having any other 2 bunkers rotating a point. And I do think this is a mechanic to think about. And it would create a difference between players wasting abilities and players who actually know how to find the stealthed player.
yep, I’m serious

There is no finding a stealthed player lol, much less a thief with 6+ dodges and teleports to avoid being hit by stealth detection from revenants or engineers which are the only classes who can do so.

It just so happens thief beats both of those classes after the nerfs to them.

And bunkers don’t 3 shot people.

you can find a stealthed player if you watch your animations.
I’ve seen more thieves being downed by engies than the other way around, and a well placed burst from rev also does the trick.
If they 3 shot people they’re not bunkers, and go down just as easily

choovanski.5462:

look. just think about the level of understanding of gw2 pvp you have to have to actually make this thread.

now think about how likely it is that you’re going go be able to convince somone operating at this level that they are wrong.

now ask yourself why you’re bothering.

they’re bothering to make the (game) world a better place

NaXorb.9732:

Zenith.7301:

Stealth has no counterplay in this game other than swinging wildly in the air hoping to hit something.

Most classes don’t have skills that can be used without a targeted opponent, let alone ones with low cd and that do enough damage to pressure a stealthed unit out.

Stealth in this game is the most broken it has ever been of any game.

It’s why WvW is invaded by thieves and PU mesmers. Stealth is a spammable invulnerability since it stops most classes from being able to apply damage and allows easy repositioning.

In the case of thief it’s even worse because backstab rewards stealth spam.

Imagine a warrior’s arcing slice or eviscerate having no telegraph or being completely invisible. That’s backstab in a nutshell.

Thieves don’t do this in spvp because this decaps the point for them.

If thieves could use stealth in spvp, they’d be as broken as they are in WvW.

There is plenty counterplay to stealth, not just swinging wildly.
Any skill that can be used without a direct target (Eg. Mesmers’ Arcane Thievery) can be used against a stealthed target, even ranged AAs.
Stealth is not an invulnerability, it does allow for repositioning, but, you can still do damage to the stealthed player.
Stealth is hardly more broken than in other games, unlike most games, GW2 stalth lasts relatively short.
You can predict the backstab as well, if you know the thief has the dagger as the main weapon, it’s certain he will go for a backstab after stealthing, and you can act accordingly.
A proffesion’s main defense mechanic decapping an objective is exactly the reason I started this thread. It seems unfair.
Lastly, I don’t think thieves are broken in WvW, and this change would’t make them broken. The main reason thieves are stronger in WvW is their damage and burst is stronger due to better equipment, not because they can stealth freely.

Mesmer arcane thievery is a utility no mesmer uses to begin with, and on a lengthy cooldown to boot, unlike the cooldown of stealth which is basically the initiative regen for another BP>BS combo.

Predicting is the euphemism you use for a blind guess.

Again, try to dodge a warrior eviscerate or arcing slice if he were able to use it after being stealthed by druid CA or engineer drone.

Thieves are broken in WvW. They don’t die unless they’re stupid and impatient. They can keep resetting until the target runs out of cooldowns since initiative and steal recharge skills faster than traditional utility and defensive skills with weapon recharge rates.

There’s a reason thieves are the vast majority of roamers alongside PU mesmers in WvW.

It becomes even more obscene because thieves stack in effectiveness, so 2-3 thieves roaming have an incredible ease in picking apart targets, and stealth rezzes and stomps are so powerful to begin with.

NaXorb.9732:

Lucentfir.7430:

Yes make stealth contribute to point capture, and then let everyone feel the pain of WvW roamers over 4 years, with ghost thieves, and PU condi mesmers. More fuel to the thief nerfbat. Do it Anet. -insert Kappa here-

No one said anything about WvW, I suggested the change to PvP only. Yes, it would be too strong with WvW’s huge nodes, but in PvP’s small ones it should not be a problem,

No what I’m saying is make everyone(People who’ve only ever stuck to Spvp) suffer what has existed in WvW over 4 years, perma stealthing debauchery. You’ll have ghost trapper thieves and PU Mesmers stealth camping all day, It’ll be a problem.

I can understand how someone might think that this is adding a new layer of depth to pvp and how it is adding more play/counterplay by making reveal more prevalent but I don’t find this sort of depth to be fun.

Seems like it goes against the spirit of pvp when your opponent is actively trying to avoid fighting you the entire time so that they don’t blow their stealth while getting all the benefits of capping/contesting the points.

You can compare this playstyle to the playstyle of a bunker spec say that it is similar because a bunker opponent is not trying to fight you, they are just trying to hold a point. This may be true but bunkers are also not fun to fight against. I remember playing a gs-axe/shield warrior during the dd ele meta and while it was always possible to win the matchup if the ele misplayed, I still dreaded fighting an ele even if I could kill them. This is because it was always an uphill battle for me and it would usually take a long time to kill them.

Similarly with the turret engi meta, you could just use a lot of aoe to try to kill the turrets first or you could rotate around them and so there is some counterplay there. My point is that some things just aren’t fun to fight against even if you can win the fight and I see this suggestion as something I won’t have fun fighting against.

Of course fun is subjective and this is just my perspective on the topic.

shay.3452:

I can understand how someone might think that this is adding a new layer of depth to pvp and how it is adding more play/counterplay by making reveal more prevalent but I don’t find this sort of depth to be fun.

Seems like it goes against the spirit of pvp when your opponent is actively trying to avoid fighting you the entire time so that they don’t blow their stealth while getting all the benefits of capping/contesting the points.

You can compare this playstyle to the playstyle of a bunker spec say that it is similar because a bunker opponent is not trying to fight you, they are just trying to hold a point. This may be true but bunkers are also not fun to fight against. I remember playing a gs-axe/shield warrior during the dd ele meta and while it was always possible to win the matchup if the ele misplayed, I still dreaded fighting an ele even if I could kill them. This is because it was always an uphill battle for me and it would usually take a long time to kill them.

Similarly with the turret engi meta, you could just use a lot of aoe to try to kill the turrets first or you could rotate around them and so there is some counterplay there. My point is that some things just aren’t fun to fight against even if you can win the fight and I see this suggestion as something I won’t have fun fighting against.

Of course fun is subjective and this is just my perspective on the topic.

Ah, I see, I can understand it not being fun to play against, I agree there.

Used to be the case in WvW a loooong time ago. One thief could easily prevent 40 players from taking a camp. AoE spam isn’t as effective as you think it is, especially when there are heavy evade builds out there for thief.

NaXorb.9732:

OriOri.8724:

Perma stealth thieves. Its pure bullkitten that someone could decap/cap a point, or even just contest it for that matter, if you can’t even see them. Being forced to lay down an AoE skill, which not all classes even have one that can cover an entire node for that matter, just to “fight” because you can’t see them is stupid and broken.

You aren’t “forced” to put down an AOE just to fight, you can hit a thief in stealth with any skill if you aim it right, even ranged AA chains. Also, the thief cannot fight you back lest he’s risking being revealed and bursted down, so you can just cleave them and whiltle them down just as you would any other “bunker”, since most build surely can out-DPS SR’s healing. Or, you can force them off the point or out of stealth with controll skills .

I challenge you to hit me on lets say… a mesmer. On the legacy mid point, while I’m on a stealthed thief. Not to mention that even if you did land a few hits, I would recover from it easily.

Magnito.6187:

NaXorb.9732:

OriOri.8724:

Perma stealth thieves. Its pure bullkitten that someone could decap/cap a point, or even just contest it for that matter, if you can’t even see them. Being forced to lay down an AoE skill, which not all classes even have one that can cover an entire node for that matter, just to “fight” because you can’t see them is stupid and broken.

You aren’t “forced” to put down an AOE just to fight, you can hit a thief in stealth with any skill if you aim it right, even ranged AA chains. Also, the thief cannot fight you back lest he’s risking being revealed and bursted down, so you can just cleave them and whiltle them down just as you would any other “bunker”, since most build surely can out-DPS SR’s healing. Or, you can force them off the point or out of stealth with controll skills .

I challenge you to hit me on lets say… a mesmer. On the legacy mid point, while I’m on a stealthed thief. Not to mention that even if you did land a few hits, I would recover from it easily.

How about stealthed players have their maximum health pool reduced to 1 while on a point?

NaXorb, just how do you intend people to hit a thief when they go to a node to try and decap but nothing happens? By this point the thief is in stealth so you have no idea where they are until a small red ring appears somewhere.

Additionally arcane thievery needs a target in order for it to hit, no target and it’s used but does nothing, way to show us all how little you know about the game. Please accept that this is not a good idea for the reasons outlined by the many posters here.

apharma.3741:

NaXorb, just how do you intend people to hit a thief when they go to a node to try and decap but nothing happens? By this point the thief is in stealth so you have no idea where they are until a small red ring appears somewhere.

Additionally arcane thievery needs a target in order for it to hit, no target and it’s used but does nothing, way to show us all how little you know about the game. Please accept that this is not a good idea for the reasons outlined by the many posters here.

If people go for a node and nothing happens, then it’s for certain that there is someone on the point with them, furthermore, I suggested that an indicator of a “conflict” on the point is implemented as well, to help with clarity.

Also, thank you for pointing my mistake, I meant to say that any skill that doesn’t require a direct target, UNLIKE those such as Arcane Thievery, can hit a player in stealth.

Lastly, I didn’t quite understand what you meant by the small red ring thing, could you elaborate further?

Magnito.6187:

NaXorb.9732:

OriOri.8724:

Perma stealth thieves. Its pure bullkitten that someone could decap/cap a point, or even just contest it for that matter, if you can’t even see them. Being forced to lay down an AoE skill, which not all classes even have one that can cover an entire node for that matter, just to “fight” because you can’t see them is stupid and broken.

You aren’t “forced” to put down an AOE just to fight, you can hit a thief in stealth with any skill if you aim it right, even ranged AA chains. Also, the thief cannot fight you back lest he’s risking being revealed and bursted down, so you can just cleave them and whiltle them down just as you would any other “bunker”, since most build surely can out-DPS SR’s healing. Or, you can force them off the point or out of stealth with controll skills .

I challenge you to hit me on lets say… a mesmer. On the legacy mid point, while I’m on a stealthed thief. Not to mention that even if you did land a few hits, I would recover from it easily.

I’d just like to say that I’ve seen this happen plenty of times, a mesmer bursting down a thief while in stealth, there’s no need to prove anything

NaXorb.9732:

Magnito.6187:

NaXorb.9732:

OriOri.8724:

Perma stealth thieves. Its pure bullkitten that someone could decap/cap a point, or even just contest it for that matter, if you can’t even see them. Being forced to lay down an AoE skill, which not all classes even have one that can cover an entire node for that matter, just to “fight” because you can’t see them is stupid and broken.

You aren’t “forced” to put down an AOE just to fight, you can hit a thief in stealth with any skill if you aim it right, even ranged AA chains. Also, the thief cannot fight you back lest he’s risking being revealed and bursted down, so you can just cleave them and whiltle them down just as you would any other “bunker”, since most build surely can out-DPS SR’s healing. Or, you can force them off the point or out of stealth with controll skills .

I challenge you to hit me on lets say… a mesmer. On the legacy mid point, while I’m on a stealthed thief. Not to mention that even if you did land a few hits, I would recover from it easily.

I’d just like to say that I’ve seen this happen plenty of times, a mesmer bursting down a thief while in stealth, there’s no need to prove anything

Yeah, right. You mean finish off a thief after the partial burst already landed before he entered stealth.

Because clones do not walk over and shatter on a stealthed target. Phantasms don’t even react either.

Most classes do not have spammable aoe abilities.

Zenith.7301:

NaXorb.9732:

Magnito.6187:

NaXorb.9732:

OriOri.8724:

Perma stealth thieves. Its pure bullkitten that someone could decap/cap a point, or even just contest it for that matter, if you can’t even see them. Being forced to lay down an AoE skill, which not all classes even have one that can cover an entire node for that matter, just to “fight” because you can’t see them is stupid and broken.

You aren’t “forced” to put down an AOE just to fight, you can hit a thief in stealth with any skill if you aim it right, even ranged AA chains. Also, the thief cannot fight you back lest he’s risking being revealed and bursted down, so you can just cleave them and whiltle them down just as you would any other “bunker”, since most build surely can out-DPS SR’s healing. Or, you can force them off the point or out of stealth with controll skills .

I challenge you to hit me on lets say… a mesmer. On the legacy mid point, while I’m on a stealthed thief. Not to mention that even if you did land a few hits, I would recover from it easily.

I’d just like to say that I’ve seen this happen plenty of times, a mesmer bursting down a thief while in stealth, there’s no need to prove anything

Yeah, right. You mean finish off a thief after the partial burst already landed before he entered stealth.

Because clones do not walk over and shatter on a stealthed target. Phantasms don’t even react either.

Most classes do not have spammable aoe abilities.

No, the thief entered stealth beforehand and emerged downed from the cumulative damage from the Mesmer.
the clones don’t walk over to the stealthed player, but the shatter still occurs at their PBAoE, and at the Mesmer’s location.
the abilities dont have to be Aoe to hit a stealthed player, mele and ranged attacks all work

What if while under stealth but also in combat? Half contribution? I don’t really want to see stealth contribution/contesting but there probably could be a balance to it.

NaXorb.9732:

Zenith.7301:

NaXorb.9732:

Magnito.6187:

NaXorb.9732:

OriOri.8724:

Perma stealth thieves. Its pure bullkitten that someone could decap/cap a point, or even just contest it for that matter, if you can’t even see them. Being forced to lay down an AoE skill, which not all classes even have one that can cover an entire node for that matter, just to “fight” because you can’t see them is stupid and broken.

You aren’t “forced” to put down an AOE just to fight, you can hit a thief in stealth with any skill if you aim it right, even ranged AA chains. Also, the thief cannot fight you back lest he’s risking being revealed and bursted down, so you can just cleave them and whiltle them down just as you would any other “bunker”, since most build surely can out-DPS SR’s healing. Or, you can force them off the point or out of stealth with controll skills .

I challenge you to hit me on lets say… a mesmer. On the legacy mid point, while I’m on a stealthed thief. Not to mention that even if you did land a few hits, I would recover from it easily.

I’d just like to say that I’ve seen this happen plenty of times, a mesmer bursting down a thief while in stealth, there’s no need to prove anything

Yeah, right. You mean finish off a thief after the partial burst already landed before he entered stealth.

Because clones do not walk over and shatter on a stealthed target. Phantasms don’t even react either.

Most classes do not have spammable aoe abilities.

No, the thief entered stealth beforehand and emerged downed from the cumulative damage from the Mesmer.
the clones don’t walk over to the stealthed player, but the shatter still occurs at their PBAoE, and at the Mesmer’s location.
the abilities dont have to be Aoe to hit a stealthed player, mele and ranged attacks all work

Sure, if you want to use a thief that’s stupid enough not only to eat a point blank shatter but sit for the full duration of blurred frenzy to be finished off.