Guild Wars 2

To make up for the weaknesses of the thief they have stealth. It is a class mechanic and you cannot hold a point while stealthed-why? This is stupid. I had a 4 thief tPVP pug, and there is no way you can win. Smoke field-blast combo, goodbye cap…even though all of you are still on the point and taking damage in stealth. This is stupid-fix it. If i want to try to defend a point as a lone thief I cannot because of my class mechanic. I go stealth more than once and it is neutralized.

Salvo brings up a valid point. Granted I play thief but if they are going to do this then under the same logic they should nerf any immunity skills as well.

Does that already happen?

dont like this too…its very annoying in tournaments

I disagree, playing a thief myself. I must say that I find it very infuriating that someone can stomp in my smoke-cloud and suddenly the enemy neutralizes our point without us even leaving it – I don’t see why I have to be punished for placing a powerful aoe blind, that someone decides to stomp through.

But capturing points through stealth would just be ridiculous. Shadow Refuge → capture point largely unnoticed. Enemy doesn’t have a chance of knowing where you are if they didn’t see you until their point got neutralized.

Aquin.3192:

Salvo brings up a valid point. Granted I play thief but if they are going to do this then under the same logic they should nerf any immunity skills as well.

Does that already happen?

Immunity skill doesn’t retain points/cap points… As for stealth, it’s pretty obvious that this is as intended and it wouldn’t make sense for them to be able to defend or assault while stealthing over a point… Thieves are good at back capping and roaming to assist/pick off people/treb/creatures , otherwise.. meh

You’re being punished for miscoordination. Sorry.

But no game with stealth and capture points allow you to cap while in stealth. As Rika said, it would be too strong.

I was thinking about this, this morning. I am currently running a pistol/dagger condition build, the problem I have is I must stealth in order to pop my auto attack and stack the conditions. So if I am sat at a node while I am fight it will slowly change hands. I am not doing anything wrong by stealthing, just playing the build how it needs to be played, but losing the node as a result.

However I understand the need for some sort of protection due to skills like shadow refuge. Maybe a compromise of not being able to cap in stealth but being able to prevent a neutralize if you are in the area?

Tolfast.6289:

I was thinking about this, this morning. I am currently running a pistol/dagger condition build, the problem I have is I must stealth in order to pop my auto attack and stack the conditions. So if I am sat at a node while I am fight it will slowly change hands. I am not doing anything wrong by stealthing, just playing the build how it needs to be played, but losing the node as a result.

However I understand the need for some sort of protection due to skills like shadow refuge. Maybe a compromise of not being able to cap in stealth but being able to prevent a neutralize if you are in the area?

pick a better node defender.

^^ Obviously….

I just happened to be at a node when we had three capped.

Edit: point is if we are defending a node as a team and I am the last one alive, I have no way of defending the node, bar running in circles, doing very little damage, while taking a beating because my main mitigation (stealth) is rendered useless.

So maybe make it so you can’t cap while in stealth, but neither can they if you are sitting on a point stealthed (at least for up to 6 seconds or something). This would go a long way to making Thieves not completely horrible for defending a node.

Why do thieves have to be good at defending a node? By the way, thieves can stack tons of evasion, moreso than just about any class, and they can run amulets that make them fairly hard to take down. If you want to play a thief on a node, maybe you should stop relying on the ability to go full glass cannon and use stealth as a crutch and consider some more creative options. I know that it’s better to just ask the developers to change the game to your narrow view of how it should be played. But seriously…

@ Atlas (quote not working)

Because any other class fighting at a node means it can not be capped until the player is finished or out of the circle, why should this be different for a thief?

RE your line about using stealth as crutch:.
As my post stated I am running a condition P/D thief not a glass cannon, I use stealth synergized with traits for Stacking bleeds / Healing / Removing conditions / Blinding, not as a crutch but as an integral part of my build.

One Idea may be to make stealth work on nodes but only when in combat.

Because a spammable stealth mechanic to defend or stall on a point would be incredibly overpowered —

Invulns also cause the point to tick down. I sometimes play point guard on an Elementalist, and I have to be very strategic about when I burn Mist Form or if I am running Focus offhand, Earth 5, otherwise I will lose the point. Engis, of course, have several Elixir S options—traited and the utility. But burning that will also cause them to lose the point.

Point is, while I appreciate that you enjoy your stealth-heavy build, you are useless fighting on a point alone. You can’t pick everything and do everything. This game is about hard choices. Either bring somebody else to fight with you or try another build.

It would be incredibly too powerful, and so would preventing people from neutralizing if your stealthed.

Mesmers cannot keep a point defended if they use Decoy or MI or veil. Its the same mechanic, yet you don’t hear mesmer’s complaining they can’t hold points while invis.

You’re class mechanic stealth is too strong as it is, and this is an excellent downside to it, give all the otehr bugs related to stealth that you thieves take advantage of.

Don’t get me wrong I agree that it could be insanely OP which is why I was trying to come up with some preventative measures. It only effects me if I end up defending a node but that hardly ever happens as that is not my role and I understand that. It sucks for the other classes that have this problem too ofcourse, and there probably isn’t an easy way to stop this from being OP.
Doesn’t stop it from being annoying :P

The “you can not cap while being stealth” mechanic is the best idea in GW2 PvP.

Which is why I said cap it. So it wouldn’t be overpowered. You wouldn’t be able to use Shadow Refuge to sit on the node for a long time because the time you can prevent capping in stealth would be capped at 5-6 seconds.

This wouldn’t even be 1/10th as powerful as a Bunker Guardian sitting on a point, so I don’t even want to hear it. It would just mean Thieves aren’t completely useless on defense.

You are missing the point. With stealth, a thief can play very recklessly, get away with cutting a lot of defensive corners, and still survive. That’s the point of the mechanic. A bunker Guardian is built for one purpose — to defend the point. If you had your way, a thief would be able to both rock those same devastating offensive builds, while also playing an insane point staller role. They could kill you or stall you — a bunker can only do one.

As I said before, the concept that “thieves are useless on defense” is incorrect. Evades do not give away point and thieves have tons of options to stack dodge and evades, while building to otherwise be bunkery themselves. If that’s the role you want, you got it.

But this idea of a stealth staller thief is insane. If they make this change, I am definitely running a max stealth caltrops condition thief. Stack conditions, go stealth in a corner (and use dodge if every they actually get close to hitting me). Rinse, repeat, win. How is this even a debate?

You are missing the point. With stealth, a thief can play very recklessly, get away with cutting a lot of defensive corners, and still survive. That’s the point of the mechanic. A bunker Guardian is built for one purpose — to defend the point. If you had your way, a thief would be able to both rock those same devastating offensive builds, while also playing an insane point staller role. They could kill you or stall you — a bunker can only do one.

As I said before, the concept that “thieves are useless on defense” is incorrect. Evades do not give away point and thieves have tons of options to stack dodge and evades, while building to otherwise be bunkery themselves. If that’s the role you want, you got it.

But this idea of a stealth staller thief is insane. If they make this change, I am definitely running a max stealth caltrops condition thief. Stack conditions, go stealth in a corner (and use dodge if every they actually get close to hitting me). Rinse, repeat, win. How is this even a debate?

Wrong. I never said they should defend as well as a Bunker Guardian when speced for offense. You are making assumptions and putting words in my and other mouths. What I am saying is they SHOULD NOT be completely useless on defense. Currently, they pretty much are because the second they stealth (which Thieves have to do or kitten themselves) they lose the point. It’s as if a Ranger used “Protect Me!” or a Warrior used “Ignore Pain” and they lose the point for it. Sorry, but that isn’t fair to Thieves. I also already said you wouldn’t be able to cap while stealthed, they just also wouldn’t be able to cap simply because you stealthed to avoid getting 3 shot.

Their defense stems from a strong offense. For them, defending a point amounts to killing someone before it can be captured. Stealth capping is simply not a good idea. You play as a thief and there is something you are agreeing to. You will be focusing on the offense side of builds. If you want to play a true defensive role, you might consider playing a different class.

Their defense stems from a strong offense. For them, defending a point amounts to killing someone before it can be captured. Stealth capping is simply not a good idea. You play as a thief and there is something you are agreeing to. You will be focusing on the offense side of builds. If you want to play a true defensive role, you might consider playing a different class.

Why? Engineers don’t have to make that decision. They can play any role they want to.

The point is that the way nodes are capped in this game is counter productive to stealth, and Thieves should not be punished for a very much integral part of the class. Why do you think there are so many Thieves that don’t even bother with stealth specs and they are all burst/haste specs? Maybe because stealth is punished in the current games PvP.

Personally, I would take the WoW/ToR style capture switch that takes 5-10 seconds to cap uninterrupted over this system which punishes certain classes.

its punished huh? I’ll take a stealth thief on my team over any burst glassy thief any day, my reason…. well there are far superior burst classes with more mobility, and also because stealth thieves are extraordinarily annoying and harder to deal with

wait, so this is a serious thread? lmao

if you want to bunker a point then how about standing out in the open and taking it in the face like every other bunker build has to?

seriously, how is this thread not locked by now?

You mean stealthy thieves can’t bunker? Say it ain’t so Joe, say it ain’t so.

hackks.3687:

wait, so this is a serious thread? lmao

if you want to bunker a point then how about standing out in the open and taking it in the face like every other bunker build has to?

seriously, how is this thread not locked by now?

Spoken like someone who knows absolutely nothing about the Thief. A thief only has one form of survivability, and it is stealth.

To make up for the weaknesses of the thief

Stopped reading there. The thief is far from weak.

Aww poor kids arent satisfied with being able to 2 shot every single class =[ som1 please buff this immediately, a temporary invulnerability available continously isnt good enough.

Ashanor.5319:

hackks.3687:

wait, so this is a serious thread? lmao

if you want to bunker a point then how about standing out in the open and taking it in the face like every other bunker build has to?

seriously, how is this thread not locked by now?

Spoken like someone who knows absolutely nothing about the Thief. A thief only has one form of survivability, and it is stealth.

Correction. Thief has at least four forms of defense. (Five if you count cripple) Stealth, Blindness, Interupts (usually dazinging) and evasion.

The worst thing about this is for ele’s, both mist form and also focus number 5 obsidian flesh (which is just an invuln) also does the same thing as a thief in stealth. So bunker ele’s utilizing mist form and a focus are suffering from the same issue.

Dual.8953:

Ashanor.5319:

hackks.3687:

wait, so this is a serious thread? lmao

if you want to bunker a point then how about standing out in the open and taking it in the face like every other bunker build has to?

seriously, how is this thread not locked by now?

Spoken like someone who knows absolutely nothing about the Thief. A thief only has one form of survivability, and it is stealth.

Correction. Thief has at least four forms of defense. (Five if you count cripple) Stealth, Blindness, Interupts (usually dazinging) and evasion.

You are really grasping at straws now. Not a single one of those is reliable and good enough besides stealth to actually be counted as a form of defense. Also, things that everyone has like dodge can’t even be counted so stop trying to use them.

Hsulf.9370:

The worst thing about this is for ele’s, both mist form and also focus number 5 obsidian flesh (which is just an invuln) also does the same thing as a thief in stealth. So bunker ele’s utilizing mist form and a focus are suffering from the same issue.

Yet, people probably think that should be changed.. while they let their blind hate of a class control their rational thoughts about how stealth should work.

stealth not capping good in pvp. in wvw stealth can hold point form capping. i have so much fun keeping enemy zerg in one camp for like 5 min or even more hiding in stealth and goin up tower

caping a point in stealth would be much more stupid, stealth is overpowered even without it… no thanks…

Ashanor.5319:

while they let their blind hate of a class control their rational thoughts about how stealth should work.

Pretty much.

Stealth is a defensive posture, when you attack you come out of stealth, so if you are in the capture point with someone stealthed you are not getting attacked by them. The counter to stealth is AOE damage. Rune sets can also be used for all professions to cloak/mist form. For an Elementalist, I don’t think they should lose the point for going Mist Form-they can’t use weapon skills as punishment. In addition, the focus gives up so much offense/cc for the defensive gain of earth 5. Mesmer, and traited Ranger should be treated similarly. Shadow refuge and other skills last only a few seconds, and Thieves and Mesmers can trait for 1 second longer duration. It is not infinite in duration, you cannot attack and maintain stealth, you simply should maintain the status quo for the capture point until the end of the stealth duration.

I main thief and i think its fine. Stealth is not OP by any means but it is so useful as a defensive tactic that being able to hold a point while in it seems a lil too much.