Stomping and Quitting
Don’t agree that stomping needs to be addressed. You be happy there’s even a downed state.
Agree with your second part but I doubt it’s gonna change. Cuz if it does then someone else will QQ as well. So I guess you just have to deal with it :x
They are not “impossible” to counter at all, they’re just “substantially more difficult” — there’s a difference. For stealth, any aoe interrupt will work, and there are several I can think of off the top of my head. Actually, I believe that even if an enemy is stealthed, you can still aim and fire any interrupts you may have at where you last saw him and they will hit him. If you’re downed you can’t however. For quickness it reduces the stomp time to like.. 1.5 seconds? which by gw1 standards should be an easy interrupt for anyone that is paying attention (I have trouble with it too, but I assume I will get better). Edit: but then again the interrupts we have in gw2 aren’t 1/4th second activations so maybe depending on the rupt you are using it could be as low as .5 seconds stomp, which is basically impossible to rupt.
(edited by milo.6942)
Sorry, until they remove Capricorn map I’ll be quitting servers all day long in sPvP. It’s hotjoin, there shouldn’t be a penalty.
tPvP should have one though yes. 10 minute lockout first time, 30 minute 2nd+
Two things that need to be addressed in my opinion.
First, I’m okay with the downed state. I think it adds a dynamic and interesting twist to PvP. However, quickened stomping (quickness is already an issue all on its own) and stealth stomping are slightly broken as they remove the ability to counter the stomp at all. It’s not a huge issue, just a slightly annoying one.
Second, quitting sPvP and tPvP should have a penalty associated with them. Lower glory gain by 100% for 15 minutes, prevent players from rejoining any PvP matches for 10 minutes, SOMETHING. The constant auto-balancing when people get butt hurt and quit is annoying.
Add a bonus to people who voluntarily choose to switch sides too!
I play a thief, Just to let you know as far as stealth stomping goes, even though we are in stealth we can still be hit. You have to time it in your head and predict as to where we would be/ what we would be doing.
I don’t think its broken but that’s probably because I have been playing against and with most classes for a while now. Its good to know all your angles and escape routes.
I do agree however with the people “rage quitting” a pvp game. Not only is there no penalty but now a team that has been working together has to be torn apart by auto balance.
I agree on #2, quitting sPvP and tPvP should have a penalty, to many people its quitting as soon they start losing by a low marging of 100 points.
If you put a in a quitting penalty, then do you play on indefinitely? Obviously the ability to opt-out of continuing after a map is completed would need to be added. Furthermore, how about instances such as when you join a game using ‘Play Now’ and it turns out to be just you in the game? I agree there needs to be some incentive to stay, but I think it needs to be thought through further to really make this game as revolutionary and awesome as it could be.
IMO: as hot-join sPvP is to be made so you can’t party in w/ friends anyways, many problems w/ team balance could be solved by randomly reassigning the teams with every new map. This way you wouldn’t be locked into a one sided run of losses therefor reducing the desire to jump out of a game to maximize the glory return on your playtime. I realize that winning does not necessarily increase your ability to earn glory however in heavily one-sided matches the opportunity to earn kill points exc. is somewhat diminished.
Another idea would to be to award a total amount of bonus points (at the end of a match) to each member of both teams, determined by placement within ones own team. The total number of available points would be the same for each side and each team would draw from this preset value. At conclusion, the bonus point distribution to each player would be determined by adding up the total amount of points earned on each team, and rewarding each player with the % of the bonus cache equal the the % of his or hers contribution to the team total.
I know that these are not perfect either, however I believe that GW2 would be best served in the long run by avoiding hasty fixes for age-old problems when there is so much opportunity to do something that adds value and or incentive while at the same time fixing or at very least alleviating many of the obvious symptoms of the issue.
Stealth stomping is a way for those classes that don’t have stability skills to actually get a stomp off. In tPVP it is hard enough against a well coordinated team to get a stomp off.
Downed state should just be down with in sPvP period. It doesn’t make sense when people die twice, but only live once… Think about the physics and the children. :P
80 ~ Thief/Guardian
If you think quickened stomping is annoying, just wait until an engineer Elixir S stomps you. (There is no way to stop this stomp short of stealth or the downed person being able to teleport)
I understand most of the viewpoints in this thread, but I still don’t think an uninterruptable stomp is in the spirt of the downed state. I’m not a developer though, so for all I know that could be part of the plan for downed state.
It just seems weird that you have a “second chance” that’s completely negated by certain other abilities: blocking (i.e., Aegis), stealth, invulnerability, etc.
Just feels slightly cheesy to me that somebody can take all of the danger out of stomping a downed opponent.
I don’t think quickness needs to affect stomping and stealth stomping/reviving is a bit silly, but I’m sure there will be people who want any and everything to stay fair game in the name of diversity while ignoring the actual power of these maneuvers.
I understand most of the viewpoints in this thread, but I still don’t think an uninterruptable stomp is in the spirt of the downed state. I’m not a developer though, so for all I know that could be part of the plan for downed state.
It just seems weird that you have a “second chance” that’s completely negated by certain other abilities: blocking (i.e., Aegis), stealth, invulnerability, etc.
Just feels slightly cheesy to me that somebody can take all of the danger out of stomping a downed opponent.
Any class that has stability can do the same thing. It’s intended, you are using a defensive cooldown to ensure a kill instead of saving yourself or team later, it’s a choice you have to make.
Vayra – Elementalist
Forkrul Assail – Mesmer
It’s a choice only a mortal can make.
I understand most of the viewpoints in this thread, but I still don’t think an uninterruptable stomp is in the spirt of the downed state. I’m not a developer though, so for all I know that could be part of the plan for downed state.
It just seems weird that you have a “second chance” that’s completely negated by certain other abilities: blocking (i.e., Aegis), stealth, invulnerability, etc.
Just feels slightly cheesy to me that somebody can take all of the danger out of stomping a downed opponent.
Any class that has stability can do the same thing. It’s intended, you are using a defensive cooldown to ensure a kill instead of saving yourself or team later, it’s a choice you have to make.
Well, I actually stated that in the post you quoted. I realize you can use long CD abilities (Stand Your Ground, for instance) just as easily as you can use short CD abilities (Cloak and Dagger). That doesn’t change the fact that effectively making yourself immune to any kind of retaliation (from the downed player) is kind of cheesy.
If someone disappears while you’re downed you can’t do anything to stop the stomp on the majority of classes. Your only hope is that someone with an AoE knockback (or some other way of effectively stopping an invisible player from completing the stomp) comes along and saves your sorry butt. Abilities like Mist Form make it completely impossible for anyone to stop the stomp.
Sure, it might be dumb to waste an ability like Mist Form to stomp a player, but that doesn’t change the fact that it feels unintended.
If you put a in a quitting penalty, then do you play on indefinitely? Obviously the ability to opt-out of continuing after a map is completed would need to be added. Furthermore, how about instances such as when you join a game using ‘Play Now’ and it turns out to be just you in the game? I agree there needs to be some incentive to stay, but I think it needs to be thought through further to really make this game as revolutionary and awesome as it could be.
IMO: as hot-join sPvP is to be made so you can’t party in w/ friends anyways, many problems w/ team balance could be solved by randomly reassigning the teams with every new map. This way you wouldn’t be locked into a one sided run of losses therefor reducing the desire to jump out of a game to maximize the glory return on your playtime. I realize that winning does not necessarily increase your ability to earn glory however in heavily one-sided matches the opportunity to earn kill points exc. is somewhat diminished.
Umm, don’t they randomly reassign teams as you rotate through/switch maps in sPvP already? It’s not runs of losses with the same terribad team that are their issue, as was said earlier, people will just ragequit at any time if they think their side isn’t going to win, even if the margin is surmountable.
If I hotjoin a match & my side is losing badly, I still go out & do what I can to accumulate some points/have some fun/make the best of it. But most don’t, they just up & leave, & yes, with the current state of autobalancing, getting yanked from the winning team that I lead/helped lead to victory & shoved onto the losing side with less than a minute left (yeah, I mean that literally, it’s happened a couple of times with mere seconds left in the match) sucks, royally.
Well, I actually stated that in the post you quoted. I realize you can use long CD abilities (Stand Your Ground, for instance) just as easily as you can use short CD abilities (Cloak and Dagger). That doesn’t change the fact that effectively making yourself immune to any kind of retaliation (from the downed player) is kind of cheesy.
If someone disappears while you’re downed you can’t do anything to stop the stomp on the majority of classes. Your only hope is that someone with an AoE knockback (or some other way of effectively stopping an invisible player from completing the stomp) comes along and saves your sorry butt. Abilities like Mist Form make it completely impossible for anyone to stop the stomp.
Sure, it might be dumb to waste an ability like Mist Form to stomp a player, but that doesn’t change the fact that it feels unintended.
If someone is trying a stealth stomp, the following down state abilities will stop it:
Guardian: 2
Warrior: 2 (Chance of guessing approximately where they are), 3
Engineer: 3
Ranger: 2 (Chance of guessing the right direction)
Thief: 2, 3
Elementalist: 3
Mesmer: 2
Necro: 2 (Chance of guessing the right direction)
If someone is trying to stomp in Mist Form, or something similar, the following downed abilities will stop it:
Warrior: 3
Thief: 2, 3
Elementalist: 3
Mesmer: 2
Necro: 2
The following classes have active abilities while up that will stop an ally getting stomped by a Mist Formed ele:
Guardian: Staff 5, Sanctuary, Signet of Mercy
Warrior: Fear Me, Battle Standard
Ranger: Spirit of Nature, Wolf F2
Thief: Shadow Refuge, Blinding Powder
Elementalist: Glyph of Renewal
Mesmer: Portal Entre, Veil, Illusion of Life, Mass Invisibility
Necro: Doom, Reaper’s Mark, Signet of Undeath
In addition, many classes have auxiliary traits that can be taken that will additionally prevent the down (e.g. Necro’s Mark of Revival, Thief’s Descent of Shadows, Guardian’s Resolute Healer, etc).
Using these abilities like Mist Form or stealth or any other ability that allows for an easier stomp does not guarantee that stomp. In fact, there is zero way to 100% guarantee a stomp in this game. All those abilities do is make it more difficult to stop the stomp, and that’s perfectly fine. If they bust a CD to stomp, you should have to bust a CD to counter them.
Second, quitting sPvP and tPvP should have a penalty associated with them. Lower glory gain by 100% for 15 minutes, prevent players from rejoining any PvP matches for 10 minutes, SOMETHING.
The thing with hot join is that it’s made for … hot joining. You can jump in and leave any time you want for testing builds or wasting a bit of time before a tourney. Besides that there is no real ‘honorable’ time to quit the hot join besides the 10 seconds when the map switches. This window is way too short for a proper leave.
And lower glory gain by 100% … 100%… really?
Umm, don’t they randomly reassign teams as you rotate through/switch maps in sPvP already?
I could be wrong but Im pretty sure it just balances the teams to account for the people that left at the previous games conclusion.
Putting the downed state in pvp is quite possibly one of the worse decisions they could have made.
Now instead of majorly imbalanced classes, we have majorly imbalanced downed classes as well! (some that even have better skills than when they were up) While other classes have utter dogkittendowned skills.
Bloodtau there is a buff called stability which you might need to look into.
Bloodtau there is a buff called stability which you might need to look into.
Read what I put again. Has nothing to do with what you posted.
herpkitten i cast stability when downed. huh, what?
I was talking about the skills classes get access to when downed. You know, like thieves teleporting everywhere, guardians getting an aoe knock back, then classes such as the engineers getting some god awful pull and an explosion on the longest cool down ever.
Downed needs to GO completely. No rework, no nothing, simply get it out of pvp.
Downed state is BS. As an engineer every other class in the game is ‘BETTER’ and being ‘DOWNED’ than an engineer. Killing some classes as an engineer and trying to finish them is often a death wish (EVEN 1v1!)
If you’re complaining that stomps are hard to get off because of cc, then stability is what you need. If you’re complaining about something else, it’s not clear what you’re talking about.
If you’re complaining that stomps are hard to get off because of cc, then stability is what you need. If you’re complaining about something else, it’s not clear what you’re talking about.
I’m complaining about the fact that EVERY OTHER CLASS has a distinct advantage over the engineer when considering the DOWNED state. KKKKTHX?
Edit: Engineers are the easiest to finish when downed, (and have nothing to help with downing another player.)
(edited by Elevated.9752)
Elementalist is easier to finish, imo. At least Engineers can use the pull to interrupt sometimes.
Elevated I main as engineer, so let me give you a few counterpoints.
Engineer’s downed #2 skills is an interrupt. Time it at the last possible millisecond to buy yourself time. If the enemy hesitates in restarting his finisher you may have a chance to use your #3 skill and buy even more time for your team to come rescue you. This is largely identical to other classes.
Engineer can use Elixer S to finish downed players, and as far as I am aware it is the only way to 100% guarantee a stomp in the game. The toolbelt from this skill can also help you or your teammates stomp. You can also swap to your flamethrower and use the blind skill in the middle of your finisher. Those are just 2 off the top of my head, but there are more.
Milo, I also main an engineer and I won’t kitten my character with elixir s just so I can finish a player.
Downed skill 2, Yes I use it every time, (it delays for about 1 second) and then we are dead unless its a 3v3 + fight, then we might get lucky.
Looking at the the thief and mesmer downed skills, they are much ‘better’ at being downed. How about a warrior that pops up and is alive again for no apparent reason? ? There is clearly an advantage certain classes are gaining from their downed abilities and the engineer is NOT one of them. Hop on the engi forums and there are several posts about the problem with engis and the downed state.
Milo, I also main an engineer and I won’t kitten my character with elixir s just so I can finish a player.
You didn’t seem to be aware of any skills that could help. If you don’t want to take them that’s entirely up to you.
Downed skill 2, Yes I use it every time, (it delays for about 1 second) and then we are dead unless its a 3v3 + fight, then we might get lucky.
Which is the same exact situation every other class is in when downed. Eles are the only class that have a right to complain.
Looking at the the thief and mesmer downed skills, they are much ‘better’ at being downed.
I agree, they have a bit of an advantage. I think they are disadvantaged when it comes to getting ressed by their teammates, however. Their only “interrupt” as it were teleports them and cancels their teammate’s res.
How about a warrior that pops up and is alive again for no apparent reason? ?
Yea! How does that work?!?! /hysteria
Look it up. How can you type these things man, I just don’t know.
(edited by milo.6942)
Elevated.9752:
How about a warrior that pops up and is alive again for no apparent reason? ?
Yea! How does that work?!?! /hysteria
Look it up. How can you type these things man, I just don’t know.
Ok, so they have an ability that does this? (that is clearly my friggen point bra.) Every class is better than the engineer at being downed ( or downing other players .) MAYBE except the elementalist. So why are elementals and engis complaining? Clearly not because of you.
In 6 or 7 months when Anet decides to change this in a way that either favors engis/eles or eliminates it outright I hope you remember this post Milo…
You have no idea what the downed warrior 3 skill does.
To put you out of your misery, Elevated, Warrior 3 pops you back alive with full health, except it puts your life on a timer. At the end of that timer, you die. If you drop to 0, you die. Neither of those are downed, you die and have to respawn. There is a trait that allows you to stay alive if you manage to kill someone in this form.
In regards to Engineers, they have their elixir s and several blinds which would allow for a safer stomp. If you choose not to take those abilities, then that’s your fault, not the game’s. It’s there at your disposal.
Down state on engie’s actually pretty good. Especially compared to my ele’s down state. For stomping on my engie i use the smoke bomb, makes itkitteneasy. If thats on cd i risk applying a single blind and hope they don’t throw rocks. As others have noted there are other ways to get stomps on the engie, you just need to consider it when you make a build.