Guild Wars 2

Burning does not need a nerf… Specific professions need to have their access to it reduced and their durations adjusted. Otherwise professions like Necromancer will get yet another undeserved nerf by having their very limited access to burning become even more irrelevant.

Just because Guards, Ele’s and Engi’s can stack 8732482974293 burns doesn’t mean every other profession should suffer a nerf for something they can’t even do.

Please start thinking beyond “this is OP it needs nerf” before making complaints.

Burns in general don’t need a nerf,but on certain classes aka ele/guard,something needs to be changed.

Just ele in my opinion.

Sube Dai.8496:

Just ele in my opinion.

It’s not the burn on ele that’s the issue it’s what they can carry with it guard doesn’t have that neither does engi.

Indeed IMO every other professions access to burning is fine expect ele.

Make Fire combo fields aply 2 burns with 1 icd, lower thier duration or up thier cd and make whirlfinisher stack less burning if has only 1 enemy in range. What you get is still good condi dmg but not total BS 12/19 burn combo.

I must say I agree with this proposal. Burning should be strong but difficult to come by. Currently some specific professions recieve a little too much access to it.

burn guard is fine? they can insta apply 10 stacks of burn on you no trouble. Just limit the stacks to sayy 5, y’know.. kinda like they kittening did to chill being a damaging condi before it even gets released. yet burning is left to run amuck here for a month(or more?) with no action. Absolutely disgusting how they disregard some things

Glad some people have sense. As Dhuumfire Reaper I was able to get about 3 stacks of burning on a player. Would suck to see that nerfed just because some other class is getting 15 stacks on a player.

Its kinda awkward to use handheld for posting but…I agree burn isnt really in need of a nerf

Nerf the skills that cause problems up and down though and its a good deal in its current form

Ring of Fire and Purging flame rings need to expand a bit. and the cooldown of Ring of Fire increased. the bugs with the visuals and teleporting out of rings need fixing

Drake’s Breath uptime and stacks on that burning is total BS and needs to be changed especially when traited with Blinding Ashes as if the BS celeddele didnt have enough defense and sustain.

Incendiary Ammo, Incendiary Powder and Blow Torch burst of burning if proc’ed right is just too much espcially with the tells

JI needs to lose a stack of burn and have longer duration to help with the dmg modifier for burning.

It’s not just burn. All damage across the board is broken. Anthing can be spammed too much, too often, and dished out too fast within too little time.

The entire pace of the game doesn’t make sense.

This is an online game with several skills to be used and played worldwide. Not a single trigger FPS for Lan parties where lag doesn’t matter.

It doesn’t make sense to have any single character being able to kill anything under 5 seconds. That makes players favor instant activation skills and anything that can be spammed.

And look at thieves, with no recharges in their skills. Revenant was done properly: Energy + recharges. You can’t have skills with no recharges. There’s no freaking way to properly balance that.

Oslaf Beinir.5842:

Incendiary Ammo, Incendiary Powder and Blow Torch burst of burning if proc’ed right is just too much espcially with the tells

Engineer burning comes in bursts with lengthy cool downs. This is what condition cleanses are for. There is no reason to nerf Engineer burning.

I agree that Ele is the major issue and that Guard and Engi burn application is fine.

Also, the Berserker elite spec is going to be very burn focused and it would be a shame to have burning nerfed to the point of irrelevance and have the spec be terrible because of it just because of one build.

On side note: you think current state is bad? Wait till war spec comes out, we didn#t reach bottom of insanity yet.

MAN.9046:

burn guard is fine? they can insta apply 10 stacks of burn on you no trouble. Just limit the stacks to sayy 5, y’know.. kinda like they kittening did to chill being a damaging condi before it even gets released. yet burning is left to run amuck here for a month(or more?) with no action. Absolutely disgusting how they disregard some things

In terms if Burn Burst damage, we can use JI+Zealot’s Flame to pull of an instant 6 burn stacks. It’s well justified considering we have to sacrifice a stunbreaker (JI), the 2k heal that comes with it, as well as risk a full condi cleanse. I usually apply 1 stack after the other and pray my torch doesn’t miss.

We can WW inside PF to reach 12+ burn stacks in 3s but that assumes we don’t get interuppted. When WW finalizes, the burns could immediately get cleansed off or transfered.
Most Guardians use Absolute Resolution and Indomitable Courage. They rely entirely on PF/JI/Torch to do damage and these skills are ridiculously telegraphed.

We’re not the best1v1 class and we have to work harder to survive in team fight scenarios. People don’t realize Burn Guardians weaknesses.

Burn Guards are fine.

Burns do like 4-5 times the damage of other conditions… Meaning with how condition removal works and how frequently they are washed away, burning significantly overshadows the rest. Burn needs a damage nerf (and to compensate, some added duration) and other conditions, especially Bleeding and Poison need to be brought up a bit. Burns being the “burstier” condition should be closer to 1:2 burns to bleeds, rather than 1:4. That gap and niche has been taken much too far.

just limit the stacks to 5, like they did to chill with reaper BEFORE IT EVEN CAME OUT. Boy does anet have their priorities kittened up; G effin G

A burn guardian applied 14 stacks on me but I managed to survive long enough to beat him. I may have gotten lucky but builds that could stack high burns are squishier. The only somewhat problematic burn skill is elementalist ring of fire. Balancing should be done on a per class/build basis.

Pimsley.3681:

A burn guardian applied 14 stacks on me but I managed to survive long enough to beat him. I may have gotten lucky but builds that could stack high burns are squishier. The only somewhat problematic burn skill is elementalist ring of fire. Balancing should be done on a per class/build basis.

Still doesn’t handle the situation where Burning is 5x stronger than every other condition while also being one of the easiest to stack consistently. It’s actually easier to tack burning in many cases than even bleeding in many cases. Something is really not right with this picture. Burning needs to go down a bit and be compensated with duration. Certain skills that are too weak then can be given an extra stack (as see fit) or more duration. But burning should not be 1:5 in terms of bleeding. Like wise, most other conditions need to be bumped up. This patch was meant to help conditions but mathematically nerfed bleeding, where the break even point is somewhere close to 2.1k condition damage from pre-patch bleeds.

Undeniably, regardless of your siding of how powerful Burning is, you must be able to admit that Burning is currently essentially the “meta-condition”, and vastly out powers any other.

ronpierce.2760:

Pimsley.3681:

A burn guardian applied 14 stacks on me but I managed to survive long enough to beat him. I may have gotten lucky but builds that could stack high burns are squishier. The only somewhat problematic burn skill is elementalist ring of fire. Balancing should be done on a per class/build basis.

Still doesn’t handle the situation where Burning is 5x stronger than every other condition while also being one of the easiest to stack consistently. It’s actually easier to tack burning in many cases than even bleeding in many cases. Something is really not right with this picture. Burning needs to go down a bit and be compensated with duration. Certain skills that are too weak then can be given an extra stack (as see fit) or more duration. But burning should not be 1:5 in terms of bleeding. Like wise, most other conditions need to be bumped up. This patch was meant to help conditions but mathematically nerfed bleeding, where the break even point is somewhere close to 2.1k condition damage from pre-patch bleeds.

Undeniably, regardless of your siding of how powerful Burning is, you must be able to admit that Burning is currently essentially the “meta-condition”, and vastly out powers any other.

I totally see where you are coming from with the burn:bleed ratio. 20+ stacks of bleeds barely hit 2000/sec. Burns have always been more powerful than bleeds but burns have never stacked as high as they do now. After large patch, they reduced burn damage but allowed certain classes to stack them higher.

One thing to consider though, If they slightly nerf burns and slightly buff bleeds, (both could be extremely devastating) certain classes may not have enough access to cleansing.

Burning is by far the biggest threat to lack of condition removal, and over time, Removal has actually gone up significantly. I’m not asking to increase the application of bleeding, but simply make it slightly more impactful. Even in regards to June 23, most classes saw a power creep including condition removal, where Bleeds actually took a nerf due to a poor rebalance of scaling when they decided they wanted base conditions to deal less damage.

More than anything, Burn actually needs a nerf to its base, not necessarily its scaling so much. Base bleed is like 22 where Burning is 131… That’s crazy, lol.

The issue with burns is not that the damage from each stack is too much, its that some of the skills on some of the classes are over the top.

For example, Rangers throw torch will apply 2 stacks of burning, which is the same as the previous burning application. On the other hand, cleansing flames will apply 3 stacks instant cast and will also remove conditions.

Bonfire will apply 1 stack for 3 seconds and will stack up to 3-4 stacks if you have balthazar runes. On the other hand, Ring of fire will apply 3 stacks when you cross it instantly.

There is a disparity between classes when it comes to burn application because some have been over tuned.

If you want to go high burning, its fine, but you have to spec for it. While I have no opinion on whether the Burn guard is OP or not, I do know that they:
- go Carrion
- go Balthazar runes
- go Radiance line that buffs burning specifically with all their traits
- have ok but not OTT sustain
- have clear weaknesses
- have zero disengage

On the other hand, the Ele:
- goes Celestial
- does not need burn duration runes
- stacks might hence increasing both condition and regular damage
- has insane sustain and escape options
- has a lot of passive proc defensive mechanisms
- has far more team fight potential
- has a lot more mobility.

Quite honestly, if you want to burn stuff, you should need burning runes to apply more then 4-5 stacks for more then 3-4 seconds. Or build your character heavily into burning with multiple weapon and utility skills. The burn guardian does this. The trapper burning ranger does this. For the Ele, its an afterthought and it comes naturally even if you build for sustain and might stacking. It is silly.

Nerfing burning would hurt ranger, engi, guard, necro, warrior…and do almost nothing to eles because they can still stack it like crazy.

Stop trying to defend eles.

And the people saying “make burning only stack to 5 like Chill” is just going to make burning suck in PvE because a single player would be able to reach the cap.

I’m definitely not a balance expert so I don’t know what the proper approach would be but I think that reducing the access a few classes have to burning is the best thing to do. Reducing Ring Of Fire’s 3 stacks to 1 stack (especially for how frequently it can be cast) for example. If a skill applies a lot of burning it should have either a high cooldown or a high cast time.

I agree with the statement that Guards have to invest a lot build-wise to make effective use of burning but that doesn’t change the fact that they have a lot of access to it. With enough might (which they build easily), even if they have no condition gear on them, those burn stacks can really start to hurt. Then on the other hand, say a Ranger takes offhand torch with no condition damage in their build, it’s not gonna hurt very much is it.

SpellOfIniquity.1780:

And the people saying “make burning only stack to 5 like Chill” is just going to make burning suck in PvE because a single player would be able to reach the cap. […]

You can’t have a one-size-fits all mechanic in a game like this.

Condition stacking should have taken into account creature Rank and Event scaling.

Of course there should be no limits on how many stacks of anything you can put on an epic boss, legendary boss or champion.

But in no way a player should be killed in less than 1 second by another single player by any means. 3 seconds is the bare minimum so they can react even if they get a lag spike.

Burn just needs a nerf on specific classes not overall thats right but the problem with burn at the moment is that it just last for 1-2 sec and after you condi cleaned it you get it 1 sec later again so you cant really make anything against it if your not for example a necro and get condi cleanse per pulse with your well.

SpellOfIniquity.1780:

Burning does not need a nerf… Specific professions need to have their access to it reduced and their durations adjusted. Otherwise professions like Necromancer will get yet another undeserved nerf by having their very limited access to burning become even more irrelevant.

Just because Guards, Ele’s and Engi’s can stack 8732482974293 burns doesn’t mean every other profession should suffer a nerf for something they can’t even do.

Please start thinking beyond “this is OP it needs nerf” before making complaints.

you’re talking about ANet that did a sweeping nerf of fire/air sigils that affected all classes due to laziness, do you really expect anything different? Frankly, I hope the burn nerfs come soon and hit hard, anything that will affect ele is good thing imo.

I agree with the OP, it’s specific skills that need to be rebalanced, not burning itself. IMHO where they went wrong is that when they were rebalancing all the burns, they rebalanced them by increasing durations rather than increasing stacks. The problem with that is that long durations benefit far more from duration-increasing bonuses, and it allows them to combo with other skills to easily achieve those fat stacks anyway. This is mostly in relation to elementalist skills tbh, and contrasting them with engineer’s burns (where they mostly rebalanced them to give short-duration fat stacks rather than long-duration single-stacks) is telling: celestial and rabid engis are nowhere to be found these days, whereas celestial eles are stronger than ever.

Still no reason as to why burning is literally 4-5x stronger than other conditions…? If burning went down and others went up it would be a buff to Engineer/Necromancer/Ranger/Warrior condition builds and a nerf to the biggest abusers, Burn Guardian and D/D Ele.

“Burn” Guard needs something in consideration probably, but I’d opt for adding more sustained burn~ not more burst burns, to their kitten nal after said change, while allowing conditions to be closer in usefulness and allowing Elementalists have their well deserved burn reduction.

I also agree that burning itself doesn’t need a nerf, instead this problem needs to by addressed specifically for each profession. d/d ele for example shouldn’t be able to spam so many stacks. burn guards are totally fine on the other hand, as are condi rangers and engies.

now that I think about it, I don’t mind the new burn at all. I just hate it on the d/d ele.

It’s too late anyway. You can’t even get a full hotjoin anymore, much less a reasonable que.

They had a perfect opportunity with this last patch. Problems were expected, but some things were so ridiculous that it evidenced almost ZERO internal testing.

The fact that some of these ridiculous things still aren’t fixed is why nobody plays anymore. The game is corrupted by rage quitting, no rewards, allowed bugs/OP things that never get fixed.

SPESHAL.9106:

It’s too late anyway. You can’t even get a full hotjoin anymore, much less a reasonable que.

They had a perfect opportunity with this last patch. Problems were expected, but some things were so ridiculous that it evidenced almost ZERO internal testing.

The fact that some of these ridiculous things still aren’t fixed is why nobody plays anymore. The game is corrupted by rage quitting, no rewards, allowed bugs/OP things that never get fixed.

pretty much this. how some things go live is beyond me. I still cant understand why they don’t give us a PTR so we can contribute to the balancing process, instead of them relying on their inept internal testing teams.

SpellOfIniquity.1780:

Burning does not need a nerf… Specific professions need to have their access to it reduced and their durations adjusted. Otherwise professions like Necromancer will get yet another undeserved nerf by having their very limited access to burning become even more irrelevant.

Just because Guards, Ele’s and Engi’s can stack 8732482974293 burns doesn’t mean every other profession should suffer a nerf for something they can’t even do.

Please start thinking beyond “this is OP it needs nerf” before making complaints.

OP i understand what you are saying: when arena net nerf other professions: Necromancer will be scapegoat for their punishment. But you say necromancer have limited access to burn, what scapegoat punishment they will get? More limited access to fire? So what! I hope you understand

The main problem is for those professions who have unlimited access to it. That is the problem with Arena net balance: giving unlimited access to everything instead of having hard-work, with effort and risk-reward.

*The #1 Main Reason why we players are always arguing is that Arena net changed their definition of Non-Holy Trinity without telling us. That is correct! Arena net changed it: re-wrote the rules and by doing that: it is causing anger and confusion to their players. That is not right at all!

Last, you want to stand up and demand serious action or will continue arguing who is wrong or right by asking for “nerfs”?

For example: look at the results of some of the “nerfs”- thief traits, mobility, permanent-stealth, condition, burst, teleport, evasion, instant kill, invulnerability, etc…

Did the “nerfs” fix them? and you also expect burn to be “nerf”? Good luck!

" I know how it is when someone disappoints you. It is tempting to see things the way you wish they were instead of how they are "
Enchanted

that is all

Don’t look now.. but the new Warrior elite appears to be built around burning as well.

ronpierce.2760:

Still no reason as to why burning is literally 4-5x stronger than other conditions…? If burning went down and others went up it would be a buff to Engineer/Necromancer/Ranger/Warrior condition builds and a nerf to the biggest abusers, Burn Guardian and D/D Ele.

“Burn” Guard needs something in consideration probably, but I’d opt for adding more sustained burn~ not more burst burns, to their kitten nal after said change, while allowing conditions to be closer in usefulness and allowing Elementalists have their well deserved burn reduction.

Because im sure anet is starting to become aware that for the sake of pve theyve taken away the flavour of each condition giving rise to a big problem if they are the bring burning in line with the other damaging conditions. That is that, if they lower burn it will eventually be no different from bleed. Meaning they might aswell remove it from the game except for a pitiful excuse of being ever so slightly more damaging than bleed.

At this point they only thing they can do to stop that from happening is leaving the damage of burn where it is and making the stack output from various skills extremely low. That low availability but high damage will be the only thing from keeping burn from becoming another bleed.

I might a post a long time ago about how the change to confusion for the sake of pve took away some of its flavour in being only punishing of spamming skills while being unaware of youre conditions, where the change made the application or idea of it a bit more faceroll unfortunately.

Saiyan.1704:

MAN.9046:

burn guard is fine? they can insta apply 10 stacks of burn on you no trouble. Just limit the stacks to sayy 5, y’know.. kinda like they kittening did to chill being a damaging condi before it even gets released. yet burning is left to run amuck here for a month(or more?) with no action. Absolutely disgusting how they disregard some things

In terms if Burn Burst damage, we can use JI+Zealot’s Flame to pull of an instant 6 burn stacks. It’s well justified considering we have to sacrifice a stunbreaker (JI), the 2k heal that comes with it, as well as risk a full condi cleanse. I usually apply 1 stack after the other and pray my torch doesn’t miss.

We can WW inside PF to reach 12+ burn stacks in 3s but that assumes we don’t get interuppted. When WW finalizes, the burns could immediately get cleansed off or transfered.
Most Guardians use Absolute Resolution and Indomitable Courage. They rely entirely on PF/JI/Torch to do damage and these skills are ridiculously telegraphed.

We’re not the best1v1 class and we have to work harder to survive in team fight scenarios. People don’t realize Burn Guardians weaknesses.

Burn Guards are fine.

What a shocker that the guy that has been trying to make condition guardian a thing since the beginning of time thinks burn guard is fine…

I think burn guardians are fine too tbh. But, admittedly, I main necro… Still, they only do ONE CONDITION, and the skills with which they can apply multiple stacks are on much higher cooldowns than the same skills on d/d ele.

manveruppd.7601:

I think burn guardians are fine too tbh. But, admittedly, I main necro… Still, they only do ONE CONDITION, and the skills with which they can apply multiple stacks are on much higher cooldowns than the same skills on d/d ele.

This ^

I also play guard. And as said before we only have one damaging condition and in order to hit you with multiple stacks we have to use high cooldown skills. Once they are done we have no way to apply multiple stacks. If we take Supreme Justice and Permeating wrath to get faster burn application (one stack every 3 hits intead of one stack every five hits) that means we have to give up our best condition clear trait and stability. Everything is a compromise.

Burn needs a nerf. Skills like purging flames and ring of fire need a rework or a nerf.