Guild Wars 2

I know this map has mix reviews. Some like it, some don’t. My own thoughts is not a secret. I have the check box Unchecked since Hot has Launch. For me, nothing wrong with the map or it’s math. It’s just it’s objective. It’s boring as hell & has failed to give me that competitive excitement i’m looking for in a spvp map. Don’t get me wrong, i’m sick & tired of conquest maps to. But unfortunately, this map does not fulfill my needs for spvp or even comes close to replace the 3 main conquest maps mostly played.

Killing Lord with a team that actually knows how to do it can be done quick. My record time is 3 min. In that time, you barley see a fight with the other team. Beats the purpose of a none conquest map.

Solution: I said it before. Change the objective of this map.
We where looking for a more pvp then conquest. Well this map is still perfect for it.

New Objective: Pirates Sap/& pillage knights village. Killing Npc’s for bonus points.

Instead of killing other teams lord, you need to cumulate as many points for your team with in 15 min. You gain points ranging from killing players, npc’s, Stealing or securing depending team by bringing back resources to base. Everything pretty much gives points.
Team with most points at the end Wins! Teams could range from 8vs8 to 10vs10. Maybe more… witch would make it more interesting.

Is there any way Arenanet would concider us beta testing this?

In theory, stronghold should have been a super exciting map, but I’m disappointed by anet’s implementation.

I don’t know how interesting it may be for a premade team, but among pugs, the map feels mindless.

• There are way too many secondary objectives. Result? Lots of things happening everywhere all the time that you can’t follow, especially if you’re busy fighting. This leads to…
• Stuff happening without you understading why, how or when they happened. Your doing your job somewhere in the map when suddenly you lose a door or your opponent channels champion heroes to their side. You never know when those things are happening until they actually happen, or when the game tells you that they are happening, there’s so much going around that you may either miss that information or – equally bad, understand how useless it may be to cross half a map to prevent the opponent from achieving some things.
• Finally, most of the secondary objectives are so… unengaging, unstreamlined and shallow. Supplies are all about running back and forth between halfway the map and your base. The moment you get a supply, all you need to do is run back to your safe zone. NPCs are all about making a shallow choice between two options and, for players who do not know better, a free mechanic for the playerbase to make bad decisions. And champion heroes are all about going to a specific corner in the map and press F, while everyone else is engaged in another secodnary objective somewhere else in the map.

The goal of the map is enticing: break their base and kill their lord.

The means to achieve that goal are a failure, in my honest opinion. They heavily revolve around doing a checklist of secondary objectives scattered across the map, most of them unenganging and shallow, or simply ignoring most of them, go straight to the champ, and just finish it.

I love league of legends, but LoL’s (and mobas, in general) secondary mechanics are far more engaging and pug-friendly than this. Even a full pug team in a moba feels very organized due to how moba’s maps communicate very clearly where each player is meant to be. There are three lanes, but they all work the same and follow the same rules (except some subtle differences). There are NPCs, but those are automatic and seamless, do not require mindless supply running, and estabilish well the pace of the game. There are roamers, but the’re a very clear and well-estabilished role about who is the specialized roamer, and a very clear risk-vs-reward ratio for those that are willing to leave their lanes to roam. There are also turrets, which add safety to the insecure players and create risk/ reward scenarios to the pro players.

In comparison, stronghold feels like a shallow and forgottable imitation.

Yeah i get what your saying. I felt it from beta & got tired of it from there. I was hoping that i would feel differently at launch. Naaa!

Stronghold is just terrible for the reasons DiogoSilva said above.

You want to know an easy way to make a superior Stronghold map? Remove the cap points from Foefire and change the win condition to killing the lord.

You can even spice it up a bit and keep the mid point but have it spawn a hero for the team that holds it for x amount of time. While we are adding stuff, just put archers on the walls by the gates.

With the above changes we basically have the GW2 version of GW1 GvG.

Obviously some tweaks would have to be made to prevent just zerging to lord down at the start but you get the general idea.

Could it be better? Yes.

But it is a hell of a lot better than Conquest. I have that box unchecked since SH came out.

anet held multiple beta tests for the map. They stopped listening to feedback after the first couple. It should have been obvious the ultimate reaction.

Woot im a warrior.1563:

Stronghold is just terrible for the reasons DiogoSilva said above.

You want to know an easy way to make a superior Stronghold map? Remove the cap points from Foefire and change the win condition to killing the lord.

You can even spice it up a bit and keep the mid point but have it spawn a hero for the team that holds it for x amount of time. While we are adding stuff, just put archers on the walls by the gates.

With the above changes we basically have the GW2 version of GW1 GvG.

Obviously some tweaks would have to be made to prevent just zerging to lord down at the start but you get the general idea.

No it wouldn’t be better.

It would simply be even more PvE. Just break the door, and then go for lord.

IMO, two simple things would help this map:

- Remove Trebuchet (I hate these on every non WvW map)

- Add a ten second channeled recall so that defense is more plausible. This is a key feature of the MOBA inspiration of the game type and would help create more actual PvP.

If I’d like to play MOBA I ’d play LoL. Have this checkbox uncheked too.

Stronghold suffers from too much noise and clutter. It should have had fewer, simpler but more engaging mechanics. As it stands, it’s the complete opposite: too much to do, and most of it uninteresting and shallow.

In other words, too many mechanics that contribute too little to the game.

Love or hate conquest, its most popular maps are better designed and more effective at creating an enganging pvp experience than current stronghold.

runeblade.7514:

No it wouldn’t be better.

It would simply be even more PvE. Just break the door, and then go for lord.

As opposed to killing npcs or running back and forth between the mid point and a safe point, right? Because those are so engaging and exciting from a pvp point of view.

To be honest, they could simply make it so that doors (in foefire) can only be destroyed if you have the nearest point capped. It would effectively reverse the goals of the map while keeping simplicity and focus on pvp combat. The secondary mechanic would become the primary mechanic (lord), the primary mechanic would become secondary (points), and that would be it. Would it be perfect? No idea, but it would probably turn out to be better than the clusterkitten of shallow objectives that currently creep stronghold.

I’m reading a lot of the same comments from other threads on how to make it better. No matter what you change in this map. If you do not change the maps objective as i mentioned above, it’s just not enticing. AT ALL!

SH is much more fun than Circle Dance Dance Revolution. Like to see it be the top mode.

Circle Dance Dance Revolution check box bin at least checked…

I think SH is more popular than forum warrior think. I have had no problem getting qeues (usually 1 min or less). All of my friends I play with much prefer it to Conquest. Part of this is that you can guarantee that you don’t get the terrible maps (Silent Storm, Kylo).

For many, Conquest is just a poor copy of other games’ pvp maps (i.e. WoW, Rift, etc.).

SH is far from perfect but, its a refreshing and unique take on MMO pvp and has a lot of appeal to those of us with some MOBA background.

If you don’t like it, don’t play it, but I think the game type is great.

LegallyBinding.4937:

I think SH is more popular than forum warrior think. I have had no problem getting qeues (usually 1 min or less). All of my friends I play with much prefer it to Conquest. Part of this is that you can guarantee that you don’t get the terrible maps (Silent Storm, Kylo).

For many, Conquest is just a poor copy of other games’ pvp maps (i.e. WoW, Rift, etc.).

SH is far from perfect but, its a refreshing and unique take on MMO pvp and has a lot of appeal to those of us with some MOBA background.

If you don’t like it, don’t play it, but I think the game type is great.

Well glad you & your friends like it. But from discussions i’m having & reddit.. seems that StrongHold is far away to be a favorite.

You would think a company that’s pushing e-sports would at least bring one new pvp map to the table that’s tournament worthy. Stronghold will probably never be played in a tournament of any kind, so pvp got only some new specs with an entire expansion…

They really should make 1-2 new pvp maps that will be played in the e-sports they are trying to push.

Ninjeff.6510 i agree. In some part. but no.. With expansion,…
1rst of all- they should of bin a full team dedicated on Spvp development & balancing.

2scd of all- they should of at launch give us 3 to 5 new none conquest maps. & 6 month later give us 3-to 5 more maps.

3rd & finally- they should of check out WoW, & all dease other MMO’S pvp maps, & check out what works & what does not. & inspire themselves from does to make there own new maps.

Ninjeff.6510:

You would think a company that’s pushing e-sports would at least bring one new pvp map to the table that’s tournament worthy. Stronghold will probably never be played in a tournament of any kind, so pvp got only some new specs with an entire expansion…

They really should make 1-2 new pvp maps that will be played in the e-sports they are trying to push.

They currently don’t have any tournament worthy maps. The only reason conquest even has tournaments is because anet is forcing them themselves.

Conquest will never work as an e-sport because it is boring to watch. Stronghold was an attempt at making an e-sport worthy game mode and while the basic idea is solid, the execution was really bad.

Stronghold just needs some adjustments and I could see tournaments working

LegallyBinding.4937:

Stronghold just needs some adjustments and I could see tournaments working

No it does not! …… Stronghold is just not engaging.

Vieux P.1238:

3rd & finally- they should of check out WoW, & all dease other MMO’S pvp maps, & check out what works & what does not. & inspire themselves from does to make there own new maps.

None of them work. Go ahead and name 1 successful e-sport MMO. You can’t because it doesn’t exist.

You may love those game modes, and they may be a lot of fun to play, but they will never work as e-sports.

Vieux P.1238:

LegallyBinding.4937:

I think SH is more popular than forum warrior think. I have had no problem getting qeues (usually 1 min or less). All of my friends I play with much prefer it to Conquest. Part of this is that you can guarantee that you don’t get the terrible maps (Silent Storm, Kylo).

For many, Conquest is just a poor copy of other games’ pvp maps (i.e. WoW, Rift, etc.).

SH is far from perfect but, its a refreshing and unique take on MMO pvp and has a lot of appeal to those of us with some MOBA background.

If you don’t like it, don’t play it, but I think the game type is great.

Well glad you & your friends like it. But from discussions i’m having & reddit.. seems that StrongHold is far away to be a favorite.

If you spent a lot of time on reddit you would think Guild wars 2 is either the best game evar or the worse game ever. You have no metrics to back up your claims, so whatever you pick up from the forums or reddit is not relevant.

Let me sum up all SH QQ topics:

Arena net isn’t making the game mode I THINK would be successful. QQQQ
I hate SH. QQQQ
I wish guild wars 2 was a reskin of guild wars 1.
I love RA (but ignores all the flaws because living in nostalgia land is more fun than real life).

Tl;dr

you really don’t have to like SH. There are people who possibly like SH and all your QQ wont make SH go away.

only maps that I wish where on a fulltime rotation is Foe, Forest, and Temple… They should have an uncheck option for all maps, I dont mind waiting for the maps I mentioned when I queue for PvP.

Would like to see a King of the Hill map. Basically like HoH in gw1, 3 teams one point to hold, SH hero(Lord strength) to capture the point. Would be more fun imo. Would love to see premades getting ganked by soloqers.

Vieux P.1238:

LegallyBinding.4937:

Stronghold just needs some adjustments and I could see tournaments working

No it does not! …… Stronghold is just not engaging.

Stop trying to impose your emotions in this thread. I think Stronghold does some good things by spacing out objectives and POIs.

Even if you hate mobas they are popular and generally have alot of things going on at various points. 3 lanes of action, jungle farming, stacking mobs, buying personal upgrades, choosing when to group up and gank or just push a lane.

Stronghold does try to open the game up and steer it away from just playing bruiser builds on a boring point. I personally like playing SH with a premade team because of all the different aspects you have to worry about.

There are some flaws that need to be ironed out, but overall I think it has potential.

As i said on my initial post. Stronghold has mix reviews. Some like it, others don’t. But i’m just voicing concerns that many players have concerning engagement & fulfillment this map offers. Awesome that you like the map. But it does not change the fact that many players don’t! & that many have unchecked the stronghold box. It’s really a shame cuz i had high hopes for this new map.

Stronghold is a roamer’s paradise. The NPC are just a reason (same as a circle in conquest) where the fight will take place. It’s just that the area of the battle is constantly moving and is not restricted to a small circle. Middle (supplies) is probably an equivalent to a circle in conquest, yet it is slightly bigger. It is also only there to bring people to fight in there. Same with the lord, once all the gates are down, it is the final objective and those fights are amazing. Maybe the lord gives a slight advantage to the defending team, but it’s not like the lord is truly strong. He basically only have 1 combo to look out for and that’s it.

Conquest can be fun for some people, I just unchecked conquest since I don’t like to stand on a circle or fight for a tiny little circle. I feel like the area of the fight in conquest is slightly too small for my taste.

Only thing I dislike about stronghold is the trebuchet… take that kitten thing out and the map would be better. I want players fighting other players with their skills and abilities. Not by pressing 1 and 3 to position a trebuchet and then spam 2 all day until someone get up there at that remote location in order to get that guy off from it.

Cat Has Ducks.1982:

Even if you hate mobas they are popular and generally have alot of things going on at various points.

Stronghold is to MOBAs what the Star Wars prequels are to the original Star Wars trilogy. :P

Disliking the prequels does not means you dislike Star Wars, because it’s the original trilogy that made it great. Likewise, disliking Stronghold does not means that person automatically dislikes MOBAs.

I second the remove the trebuchet point. It only detracts from the map.

DiogoSilva.7089:

Cat Has Ducks.1982:

Even if you hate mobas they are popular and generally have alot of things going on at various points.

Stronghold is to MOBAs what the Star Wars prequels are to the original Star Wars trilogy. :P

Disliking the prequels does not means you dislike Star Wars, because it’s the original trilogy that made it great. Likewise, disliking Stronghold does not means that person automatically dislikes MOBAs.

Never said he disliked MOBAs. I was just highlighting the point made about how too many objectives going on is a bad thing. And I mentioned that MOBA’s whether you like them or not, have this aspect and are very popular.

Ok here are my reason why I have stronghold unckecked, some player might relate to this.

1. No kittening soloq!!!!! Why on earth do a soloquer have to get punished against premades specially in this map where communication is crucial, at least in conquest having no soloq as well but I am able to have a better winning ratio compared to stronghold.
2. No kittening templates really anet nice one what a fail, let’s give them a big applause after 3 years still no build templates. Sometimes I want to play this map coming from conquest but I want to change builds at the instant.
3. Stronghold requires communication, playing with pugs is a frustration, we need game in-voice or some sort of command system. An indie game got it right why can’t you guys. Conquest needs this very badly but stronghold even more.
4. The channelling is really stupid, let’s ignore the player because I am tanky. Instead it should be who ever wins the fight get’s the channel would be more entertaining to watch. Cancel channelling when hit easy learn from WoW. Just imagine watching this on twitch one guy getting hit while channelling and standing there with perma stability up yeah very boring to watch.
5. Trebuchets, those belong in wvw, don’t bring that crap here.

They could have made arenas for way less effort and time. I’m sure most SPvP Mains unchecked this at launch as I did (Actually I think it saved my setting from the beta lol)

Mcrocha.3891:

SH is much more fun than Circle Dance Dance Revolution. Like to see it be the top mode.

Try defending.

Cat Has Ducks.1982:

DiogoSilva.7089:

Cat Has Ducks.1982:

Even if you hate mobas they are popular and generally have alot of things going on at various points.

Stronghold is to MOBAs what the Star Wars prequels are to the original Star Wars trilogy. :P

Disliking the prequels does not means you dislike Star Wars, because it’s the original trilogy that made it great. Likewise, disliking Stronghold does not means that person automatically dislikes MOBAs.

Never said he disliked MOBAs. I was just highlighting the point made about how too many objectives going on is a bad thing. And I mentioned that MOBA’s whether you like them or not, have this aspect and are very popular.

And to add to what you said, MOBA’s multiple objectives are very successful because:

• They are engaging, as in, they promote risk/reward plays;
• Any pug team can keep them under control without the need for voice chat, due to how the map layout is excellent at organizing even the most unorganized and random teams, and due to how the mini map and the ping system (among others) are excellent at conveying all the necessary information that non-voip parties need.

Just compare how contesting a dragon works in LoL vs how channeling a hero works in SH.

Dragon:

• Requires the bot lane to leave their lane, which will leave the opponent suspicious (risk);
• Can be warded by opponents so they can spy on dragon contesting (risk by contesters/ reward for skill playing by opponents);
• Can be stolen (risk vs reward, promotes strategical decisions about when or when not to contest it);
• Can attack back, leaving them vulnerable to ganks and roamers (risk vs reward);
• Gives an immediate reward (satisfaction);
• Promotes combat;

SH channeling:

• Any random player from anywhere can get it;
• Because players are always cycling through map, and there’s limited vision of their positioning, it happens that, for most of the time, pugs never know when or if somebody is there;
• Press F. No risk involved if they get caught by another player;
• Needs to be interrupted to cancel the channel. Tanks can spam their stabilities and blocks for easy and uneventful rewards;
• There are two of them and each one is placed at a corner of the map, so the chances of having more than one player near the zone are low, especially in pugs.

It’s like night and day.

MOBA’s objectives work because they’re exciting AND manageable by pugs. SH does the complete opposite, which makes it feel like a shallow wannabe mode instead of serious competition to the pvp giants.

And that’s not the only problem with stronghold. Supply running (get back to your safe zone and press F), unnecessary NPC management (run to base, press F, then go do something else) and very annoying and stealthy trebuchets (which are pretty much F/ 1-button sammers) all lead to making SH very… uneventful, unexciting, anti-climatic.

And then put yourself in the shoes of a viewer/ watcher. “Why are they running back to the base? Why are they running back to the base again? Wait, and again?” “Because they must press F to create a NPC. And again. And again. And now they need to go back to press F to channel a guy.”

Stronghold is less about an epic and engaging base assault, and more about dancing between halfway the map and your base to press F time and time again.

DiogoSilva.7089:

And to add to what you said, MOBA’s multiple objectives are very successful because:

• They are engaging, as in, they promote risk/reward plays;
• Any pug team can keep them under control without the need for voice chat

Could not get past that portion. I played Dota 2 because of in game voip. If you are stuck below 3k mmr, you have teammates who you swear were trolling you because their movement around the map and general game sense hurt your soul.

Mobas are not some simple thing that any pug can coordinate. It’s often like hurding cats, while I yell at my support to stop last hitting in my safe lane!!!!

DiogoSilva.7089:

In theory, stronghold should have been a super exciting map, but I’m disappointed by anet’s implementation.

I don’t know how interesting it may be for a premade team, but among pugs, the map feels mindless.

• There are way too many secondary objectives. Result? Lots of things happening everywhere all the time that you can’t follow, especially if you’re busy fighting. This leads to…
• Stuff happening without you understading why, how or when they happened. Your doing your job somewhere in the map when suddenly you lose a door or your opponent channels champion heroes to their side. You never know when those things are happening until they actually happen, or when the game tells you that they are happening, there’s so much going around that you may either miss that information or – equally bad, understand how useless it may be to cross half a map to prevent the opponent from achieving some things.
• Finally, most of the secondary objectives are so… unengaging, unstreamlined and shallow. Supplies are all about running back and forth between halfway the map and your base. The moment you get a supply, all you need to do is run back to your safe zone. NPCs are all about making a shallow choice between two options and, for players who do not know better, a free mechanic for the playerbase to make bad decisions. And champion heroes are all about going to a specific corner in the map and press F, while everyone else is engaged in another secodnary objective somewhere else in the map.

The goal of the map is enticing: break their base and kill their lord.

The means to achieve that goal are a failure, in my honest opinion. They heavily revolve around doing a checklist of secondary objectives scattered across the map, most of them unenganging and shallow, or simply ignoring most of them, go straight to the champ, and just finish it.

I love league of legends, but LoL’s (and mobas, in general) secondary mechanics are far more engaging and pug-friendly than this. Even a full pug team in a moba feels very organized due to how moba’s maps communicate very clearly where each player is meant to be. There are three lanes, but they all work the same and follow the same rules (except some subtle differences). There are NPCs, but those are automatic and seamless, do not require mindless supply running, and estabilish well the pace of the game. There are roamers, but the’re a very clear and well-estabilished role about who is the specialized roamer, and a very clear risk-vs-reward ratio for those that are willing to leave their lanes to roam. There are also turrets, which add safety to the insecure players and create risk/ reward scenarios to the pro players.

In comparison, stronghold feels like a shallow and forgottable imitation.

Seriously? So much of what you said is a lie. It’s really surprising how many agree with you. Please stop exaggerating so much.

Too many secondary objects? You mean either summon npcs (door breakers or champions) to help get to the lord or defend your side? How is that too many?

You don’t know when things are happening? You don’t know all of a sudden that a champion got summoned? There’s a big banner that shows up on your screen when a champion will soon be summonable giving you enough time to get there. And also another banner after, showing you what side summoned it.

You sometimes travel across the map to find it useless? That’s completely your fault and l2p. Only npcs can break down the gate, which you can see where they are on the map the whole time which helps you determine if you should travel. Also , you’re told, with a banner again, when your lord is being attacked.

Stopped reading after that, your opinion is really completely irrelevant after what you typed in that paragraph.

Cat Has Ducks.1982:

I played Dota 2 because of in game voip. If you are stuck below 3k mmr, you have teammates who you swear were trolling you because their movement around the map and general game sense hurt your soul.

Mobas are not some simple thing that any pug can coordinate. It’s often like hurding cats, while I yell at my support to stop last hitting in my safe lane!!!!

I’m basing my experience on League of Legends. Starting at the lowest league (Bronze level, around halfway its ladder), pug players already know how to coordinate at a basic level, understand their role and syncronize as a team. Sure, definitely not with the map awareness, the positioning, the timing and the skill of better players, but they can still do it, regardless of how complex the game mode is.

The game offers plenty of tools and very effective mechanics to guide players to work in syncronization. The ping system for quick communication, the map structure with clearly defined roles that are easy to understand, the amount of map vision available and the very strictly controlled pacing and sense of progression (which ultimately determines when players can or can not go for objectives) creates several predictable patterns AND a lot of room for improvization.

Halfway each match, when the laning phase is over and players start roaming everywhere, the game becomes more chaotic, like stronghold, but there’s still plenty of mechanics to aid teamplaying among pugs, unlike stronghold.

I don’t know how well this translates into Dota2, as I haven’t played it, but I do know that LoL is widely more popular and dota is known to be more hardcore and complex, so I don’t know if the later happens to be less streamlined or not.

Snowywonders.1378:

Too many secondary objects? You mean either summon npcs (door breakers or champions) to help get to the lord or defend your side? How is that too many?

You don’t know when things are happening? You don’t know all of a sudden that a champion got summoned? There’s a big banner that shows up on your screen when a champion will soon be summonable giving you enough time to get there. And also another banner after, showing you what side summoned it.

Secondary objectives include: two different lanes, two champion channels, one trebuchet and one supply room. That’s about six places that five players must cycle around the map.

MOBAs (or at least, LoL) get away from that problem because they offer plenty of mechanics for map control (vision control, recall), quick communication (ping system) and impose a very strict idea on where each player should be going and what each player’s role should be (aka, usually “stuck” in a lane for quite some time).

Stronghold offers very little of that. You have map icons and in-game warnings, and that’s that. There is no strict lane phase, so each player can be doing one thing in one minute, and another entirely different thing the minute after. You never know where to find them when you may need them, because they’re all roaming everywhere.

1. How can you make sure that every single one of your team mates is controlling every single secondary objective, without using voip?
2. How can you quickly communicate that an opponent’s assault is under control or when it is not, so you know beforehand if you should spend your time running back to the base or if you should instead follow a secondary objective?
3. How can you find out where your missing opponents are or where they may be, without relying on the vision from silent roaming pug players?
4. How can you make sure that you’re going to have a pug ally following you, so you both can go 2 on 2 to secure an important secondary objective?

Etc. Etc. Etc.

Conquest also gets away from those problems (although not totally) because it’s simpler. It is not so reliant on information, because most of the game mode gravitates toward 2 or 3 capture points, where you can easily have allies around you, where you can easily gain vision of all or most of your opponents and where you can easily know where to go in the map based on 2 or 3 points of interest and nothing else. And even then, conquest is not pug-friendly, because it is heavily reliant on non-pug cycling tactics.

Stronghold neither has the simplicity of conquest nor does it have enough infrastructure and necessary mechanics to make pugs work in syncronization, making the map mindlessly chaotic.

So stronghold has two massive problems:

1. Too convoluted OR lacking enough infrastructure to aid pug players play as a team;
2. Unenganging – and sometimes anti-climatic, mechanics;

Your response was way too long. But you said it yourself, halfway through bronze league people know how to make things work. So you are telling me if people played 10 games of Stronghold it’s still confusing? I’m betting it takes more than 10 games in a LoL to understand it, even if it’s more casual than dota.

You seem to be comparing people’s first experience with stronghold and a player base who has already played alot of LoL.

People in bronze have zero idea what’s going on, pings or not.

Cat Has Ducks.1982:

Your response was way too long. But you said it yourself, halfway through bronze league people know how to make things work. So you are telling me if people played 10 games of Stronghold it’s still confusing? I’m betting it takes more than 10 games in a LoL to understand it, even if it’s more casual than dota.

You seem to be comparing people’s first experience with stronghold and a player base who has already played alot of LoL.

I understand that the first experience with stronghold is always going to be confusing by default, but I was comparing the amount of tools that a game like LoL has to make pugs work in team versus what we have in SH (almost none).

LegallyBinding.4937:

People in bronze have zero idea what’s going on, pings or not.

You’d be surprised by how many decent players there are at the later half of bronze league.

But I can go even further and say that I know kids in bronze V that know how to ping, how to wait for ally ganks, and contest dragons and barons as a group. Those things happen partially because the game offers easy tools for them to work as a team, and partially because the way the map is designed lends to players naturally gravitating towards specific group encounters.

ok, back to initial subject. Do you check or uncheck StrongHold Qing Box?

Vieux P.1238:

ok, back to initial subject. Do you check or uncheck StrongHold Qing Box?

95% uncheck. 5% checked

I check stronghold 100% and conquest 25%

100% SH
0% CQ
for me

I am enjoying stronghold.

It’s getting better as the various solo-Q players understand the map more.

Judging by some of the feedback here, such as from DiogaSilva, I think a lot of players just need to play the map more and learn what’s going on.

Once you understand what’s going on and why secondary objectives matter, SH becomes a really engaging map with a deep strategy. Games where both teams understand the map and really try to counter each other provide some of the most intense PvP games I’ve seen since release.

The complexity gives this map a bit of a learning curve, which makes it tough for people to give it an honest shot, but I agree with Nekretaal that the quality of games will keep going up as more and more players get the hang of things.

Dahkeus.8243, i understand what your saying. But’s SH is anything but engaging or have any multiple strategy.

Everybody now knows theres only 1 strategy on this map. & it’s to summon bombers with ur initial resource, Zerg rush to kill guards. Bust doors, guards & finish lord. You don’t even need a pre-made team to achieve this in 3 minutes. I done it multiple time. Yawwwn!

Worst part, most of the time you don’t even see the other team cuz there rushing it as well. It’s mainly a race on who can bust doors, guards, lord the fastest.

Trust me there’s more players that feels the same that does not even wanna waste time posting there thoughts on it. SH is boring & it missed it’s mark. Sorry Anet.

Vieux P.1238:

Dahkeus.8243, i understand what your saying. But’s SH is anything but engaging or have any multiple strategy.

Everybody now knows theres only 1 strategy on this map. & it’s to summon bombers with ur initial resource, Zerg rush to kill guards. Bust doors, guards & finish lord. You don’t even need a pre-made team to achieve this in 3 minutes. I done it multiple time. Yawwwn!

Worst part, most of the time you don’t even see the other team cuz there rushing it as well. It’s mainly a race on who can bust doors, guards, lord the fastest.

Trust me there’s more players that feels the same that does not even wanna waste time posting there thoughts on it. SH is boring & it missed it’s mark. Sorry Anet.

What if…. you kill the enemy bombers…… GASP

Vieux P.1238:

Dahkeus.8243, i understand what your saying. But’s SH is anything but engaging or have any multiple strategy.

Everybody now knows theres only 1 strategy on this map. & it’s to summon bombers with ur initial resource, Zerg rush to kill guards. Bust doors, guards & finish lord. You don’t even need a pre-made team to achieve this in 3 minutes. I done it multiple time. Yawwwn!

Worst part, most of the time you don’t even see the other team cuz there rushing it as well. It’s mainly a race on who can bust doors, guards, lord the fastest.

Trust me there’s more players that feels the same that does not even wanna waste time posting there thoughts on it. SH is boring & it missed it’s mark. Sorry Anet.

You kill enemy team rushing your gates, and there PvE race ends.

Cat Has Ducks.1982:

Vieux P.1238:

Dahkeus.8243, i understand what your saying. But’s SH is anything but engaging or have any multiple strategy.

Everybody now knows theres only 1 strategy on this map. & it’s to summon bombers with ur initial resource, Zerg rush to kill guards. Bust doors, guards & finish lord. You don’t even need a pre-made team to achieve this in 3 minutes. I done it multiple time. Yawwwn!

Worst part, most of the time you don’t even see the other team cuz there rushing it as well. It’s mainly a race on who can bust doors, guards, lord the fastest.

Trust me there’s more players that feels the same that does not even wanna waste time posting there thoughts on it. SH is boring & it missed it’s mark. Sorry Anet.

What if…. you kill the enemy bombers…… GASP

This ^.

Go against any halfway decent team and your doorbreakers will be wiped at the start of the game.

But it’s funny how many people have played a handful of games and pulled this off against players who didn’t understand how to defend and jumped to the conclusion that this is the only viable strategy.