Stronghold - 2 possible solutions?
Long death timers are just annoying and there is no additional reward feeling coming with it.
EU – Multiple times #1 SoloQ pre Dec 2014 (pure MMR based ladder)
Primoridal (S1) & Exalted (S2) & Illustrious (S3) Legend
Primoridal (S1) & Exalted (S2) & Illustrious (S3) Legend
how bout two more:
-delete all NPC’s sept for the ones in lord chamber and make the current door breaker spawn points instead spawn a bomb/bomb kit that the player has to carry to the door.
-make the supply center a capture point that you mus hold to get pick up supply from (you can still get it from dead players though).
Both make the game mode less pve’ish and encourage more actual PvP as well, as streamlining a few of the confusing mechanics for newbs.
(edited by Runewolf.8456)
-make the supply center a capture point that you mus hold to get pick up supply from (you can still get it from dead players though).
I really, really like that idea, never thought about it. +1
how bout two more:
-delete all NPC’s sept for the ones in lord chamber and make the current door breaker spawn points instead spawn a bomb/bomb kit that the player has to carry to the door.
-make the supply center a capture point that you mus hold to get pick up supply from (you can still get it from dead players though).Both make the game mode less pve’ish and encourage more actual PvP as well, as streamlining a few of the confusing mechanics for newbs.
Giving the players bombs will just result in something like a full bunker warrior or guardian using the bomb kit and laughing as they destroy your walls with absolutely no counter-play. Just get your whole team and rush the Lord. The enemy team won’t be able to kill a bunker supported by four players before all the walls are taken down and the enemy team is in the lord room.
Strategies would boil down to;
1: Rush lord and hope you can out DPS the other team.
2: Rush the enemy team with your full team and risk the entire match on a single team fight. If you lose they’ll burn down all your walls before you get back leaving you at a steep disadvantage.
With the current set up two or three players can pretty easily burn down the doorbreakers even with a five man team supporting them. Especially with a solid trebuchet shot. You wouldn’t be able to do the same snipe tactic against a player who’s actively resisting you.
No need to kill other players
remove the supply depots, and make it so that every kill automatically drops 2 supplies forcing players to actually kill each other to progress in their offense lane.
long respawn timers are a pain, in higher tier fights, players force downed players to stay in downed state as long as possible, so add that time out of combat plus a longer respawn timer, would be a pain. if anything, they should make the map a bit longer/larger so it takes them longer to run back, so respawned players can either run back or go to another/closer objective.
if anything, they should make the map a bit longer/larger so it takes them longer to run back, so respawned players can either run back or go to another/closer objective.
Then you’ld have as much extra distance to run to their lord. Would be even more impossible to counterattack after wiping enemy team in your lord room. Bad idea.
Honestly, all mobas have increasing respawn times as the match goes on, players there seem fine with it.
“Men are more ready to repay an injury than a benefit,
because gratitude is a burden and revenge a pleasure.”
because gratitude is a burden and revenge a pleasure.”
my solutions:
1) make doors harder to break. maybe let it require at least 3 or 4 doorbreakers to break it down.
2) add a healing skill to the lord. or maybe let the lord get back to full health when out of combat. it will be more difficult to kill the enemy lord, resulting in more time to counterattack.
3) make guards damageable only by archers and treb.
4) increase timer so the chances of ending a mach trough timer will be decreased. OR add some kind of ‘Last battle stage’ mechnic. (example: lord joins the fight; no more respawns; double damage; etc etc etc….
these are just some solutions i could think of while playing a couple of games. i’m no expert on that level
how bout two more:
-delete all NPC’s sept for the ones in lord chamber and make the current door breaker spawn points instead spawn a bomb/bomb kit that the player has to carry to the door.
-make the supply center a capture point that you mus hold to get pick up supply from (you can still get it from dead players though).Both make the game mode less pve’ish and encourage more actual PvP as well, as streamlining a few of the confusing mechanics for newbs.
Giving the players bombs will just result in something like a full bunker warrior or guardian using the bomb kit and laughing as they destroy your walls with absolutely no counter-play. Just get your whole team and rush the Lord. The enemy team won’t be able to kill a bunker supported by four players before all the walls are taken down and the enemy team is in the lord room.
except two things;
-One, when you pick up kits or other objectives in the game they at minimum prevent you from using only weapon skills and at worst prevent you from using any other skill that you would otherwise be able to use. Now most bunker builds are tanky but also rely on CC, regen, and invulnerability/block skills to be unavailable which they would not have assuming bombs were made to work like other in game objectives and kit
items.
-Second bunkers like all builds have plenty of counter play; boon strip, poison, counter CC and though the counter play is less then reliable it still can work given proper skill and coordination.
Those two points aside I agree with the above part of your post, that my changes would mean the rise of bunker builds as bomb carriers which if you ask me is good and with those will arise counter builds/work arounds that will eventually make a meta around the new game mode. It’s good to have a sort of ‘template’ or ‘meta’ for roles in game-modes like this, as they make them easier to understand to both viewers and players as well as giving a good base for teams of PuG’s to go off of for basic tactics.
-make the supply center a capture point that you mus hold to get pick up supply from (you can still get it from dead players though).
I really, really like that idea, never thought about it. +1
This is an interesting idea to try.
While it’s true that stronghold smells a bit too much like PvE, i did not have any problems finding actual players to kite, annoy, distract while my team won the battle elsewhere.
except two things;
-One, when you pick up kits or other objectives in the game they at minimum prevent you from using only weapon skills and at worst prevent you from using any other skill that you would otherwise be able to use. Now most bunker builds are tanky but also rely on CC, regen, and invulnerability/block skills to be unavailable which they would not have assuming bombs were made to work like other in game objectives and kit
items.
-Second bunkers like all builds have plenty of counter play; boon strip, poison, counter CC and though the counter play is less then reliable it still can work given proper skill and coordination.Those two points aside I agree with the above part of your post, that my changes would mean the rise of bunker builds as bomb carriers which if you ask me is good and with those will arise counter builds/work arounds that will eventually make a meta around the new game mode. It’s good to have a sort of ‘template’ or ‘meta’ for roles in game-modes like this, as they make them easier to understand to both viewers and players as well as giving a good base for teams of PuG’s to go off of for basic tactics.
1. Even without any skills the bunker can still actively move to avoid enemy AoE fields and use the dodge function to avoid major burst. Things that the NPCs cannot do. The bunker also has more innate defense from stats and passive procs. It would be all but impossible for a team of three players to snipe an actual player with the bomb kit so long as the player has his full team to support him. You can, however, snipe the doorbreakers. The harder it is to keep the thing that destroys walls alive the less effective a lord rush strategy is. If you put the means of destroying gates in the hands of a thinking player you make it much, much harder to pull off a snipe tactic and thus make the game mode heavily favor the simple lord rush tactic.
2. The bunker bomber still offers less counter-play than doorbreakers from a strategic point of view. It’s a lot easier to keep a player alive than an NPC on a set path.
As for making a bunker meta role, how boring would that role be? You’d give up all weapon skills and utility skills for the ability to attack doors while your teammates do all the fun work. You’d give up what makes up 90% of your build for the ability to… PVDoor.
Personally I’d much rather fight other players for control of the lane by killing/protecting the NPCs than to have a player dedicate their entire build around fighting inanimate objects.