Stronghold PvP Feedback

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Posted by: Hvaran.6327

Hvaran.6327

I say, it’s a beta, treat it as a beta, not like Preview.

Next time, give it 5 days. During those 5 days, test couple versions. On Monday, let’s say that it’s regular what we’ve got. On Tuesday, make some significant change to Archers for example and see how people react. Maybe on Thursday, bump the player cap to 6 or 8 per team and see how people like it.

Run similar rating/opinion system like in GW2 betas. After the match, give an option to leave feedback in-game.

As I said previously, I get that you want to time your previews and limit them, so people stay excited. It’s okay for majority of PvE, features etc.

But when you want to get feedback on competitive game modes, treat it like a beta and give it a proper shot.

just +1, this guy have given great advice

Handarand – Handacooon – Handa Panda – Handa Genie

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Posted by: BetterHappy.2517

BetterHappy.2517

PvP Feedback… this game mode is basically a GW2 spin off of popular MobA game design. I get it, from a marketing pov you may increase the player base if people who enjoy MobA style come over… but GW2 isn’t the first to try and spin offs of MobA’s, heard of Smite???

Long story short this game mode might be fun to mess around in but I can’t stress enough I hope that you all are not investing into this game mode over conquest balance. If I wanted to play a MobA, I’d play DotA, if I wanna play MMO PvP, I’d play GW2. Hell I’d even go download Smite before getting into Stronghold. Anet has made the decision to combine the Stronghold/Courtyard/Conquest maps all together in the same Q system because otherwise you wouldn’t have the player base to support three separate game modes. Fun fact, if you spend company time/resources on one, and make the PvP excellent, the players will come. Then you’ll have the player base to throw in different style maps to give players something else to do.

I could only imagine how much more enjoyable conquest would be, if instead of wasting time and resources on Cortyard/Stronghold, bugs were fixed, perhaps even take a look at PvP runes.

I guess what I’m trying to say is this should be titled Stronghold PvE Feedback, and be moved to the proper sub forum. Then you all can focus on the actual PvP game modes

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Posted by: Hugh Norfolk

Previous

Hugh Norfolk

PvP Game Designer

Hey I wanted to just poke in here and say a big thanks to everyone that has responded to this thread with feedback. I have been reading it daily, and have been remaining quiet as to not muddy your guys/gals feedback. Again thank you for taking the time to let me know what you think about stronghold.

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Posted by: DiogoSilva.7089

DiogoSilva.7089

I think the “supply” mechanic would be more interesting if players had to take it to the opponent’s base instead of simply going back to their base. Of course, that would no longer fit thematically, and it would have to be redesigned into something else, but it would enhance the playing experience.

There are two problems I have with the way this mechanic/ objective currently works:
1. It is too safe.
2. Too much unnecessary backtracking in a map that is meant to be offensive and feel epic.

Once you get supply, you can easily run back to your base with the right build. The distance is short, and that’s where NPCs and allies spawn for your safety. It’s not worth chasing a player to their base for the sake of a few NPCs that you can always kill once they get closer to your own base. Any mobile bunker build can easily gather supply and spawn NPCs with no effort as it is.

If that mechanic could motivate the player to go into their opponent’s base instead, then it would create far more opportunities for interesting plays and high risk scenarios.

Perhaps changing the supply mechanic to something else might be too late for this map, but for future new maps, I hope Anet considers this suggestion. Instead of supply, just have it be some kind of gate-destroying bombs that players can carry, and once they get close to their opponent’s gates, it is automatically dropped. Because this would be a different system, there would be no NPC choosing, and NPC spawing would simply be automatic. Also, in this scenario, every third NPC wave spawn or something could feature a stronger-than-normal NPC for the sake of diversity and higher tension.

Outside of that, I agree that there are too many mechanics in the map. Certainly, it does add depth to the game mode, but I feel that it will also make it harder for PUGs to enjoy it. The great thing about MOBAs, it’s that although their main map is deep, players usually know where to go and which role to take. Perhaps this can be improved in stronghold if anet makes it so that staying in both lanes is a necessity. Currently, a 5-man assault into their base seems to be quite successful, but it’s hard for me to know if this is a design problem or simply if it is the players that don’t know any better yet. Another solution is to have a few less secondary mechanics, but make the remaining ones deeper. This is the case for my suggstion above to make supply a more high-risk mechanic.

Finally, any victory and defeat on timer has been anti-climatic. It just doesn’t works in this mode. I agree that matches shouldn’t be much longer than what they are, though. So far, I love the idea that someone else suggested, that the game should not end while a lord is under attack. In other words, when time’s out and a lord is under attack, the timer should freeze until both lords are safe from harm. This would give a last opportunity and a high pressure/ high tension climax that both players and spectators would absolutely love, and stronghold would be a much more exciting mode if something like this were to be added in.

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Posted by: Archaon.9524

Archaon.9524

So much non sense in 1 thread. If people truely think attacking is the right way to win this you’re absolutely fighting horrible people. There should be no way that a 5 or even 4 man team can’t kill you if you are just attacking. All they have to do is kill the doorbreakers. They could do that without even paying attention to the enemies. Not only that but the attackers are forced to watch and protect their doorbreakers from enemy guards. If anyone has been playing the rush the lord tactic from the getgo, he’s not playing the game mode correctly.

Any team that currently plays the full 15 minutes and only goes for objectives and groups up to kill solo people running around is heavily in favor. You sometimes can easily score 2x the points the enemy has by winning the fights of the buffs and killing players. Crushing the first gate is about the only offesive part you have to do and has a much higher rate of succes than the 50/50 lord rush from the getgo.

The problem is that this tactic only favors you to attack at around 3-2 left on the game, which makes it pretty much useless to even waste your time or by potentially throwing the game.

Archers need to be improved to have more use to the game mode.

There should be more obstructions to jump around and many invisible walls should be deleted. Crushed houses should also create obstructions to jump on or around. This gives the treb also much more use to the game mode for certain comps that rely on ’’parcour’’ like mesmers, thieves, etc.

Either the timer should be increased or it should be easier to attack.

and this pretty much explains why stronghold shoudn’t belong to pvp…just put it in zerg vs zerg and everything is gonna be fine

pvp = teamfights, not killing npcs and doors…that belongs to pve and crap wvsw

and btw flash news anet…this is NOT a moba and never will be, get over it if someone wants to play mobas dota2 and lol are out there and i don’t think gw2 could ever dream to compete with something like dat…if you’re trying to make gw2 pvp moba style you’re gonna fail hard…even harder than your previous fails (Nough said i guess), guild wars got famous because it was DIFFERENT not for copying other games..keep dat in mind

Ark 2nd Account

(edited by Archaon.9524)

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Posted by: rajule.8054

rajule.8054

It seems to me this map is an attempt to imitate the moba game format. In order for that to work I think they need to change a few things in order for it to work right.

For one you should add a 3rd lane, and change the existing lanes so that troops advance from both sides instead of blue teams lane and red teams lane. this will force teams to split there forces instead of putting everything into their assault and ignoring everything else.

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Posted by: style.6173

style.6173

Changes that I’d like to see in the next beta… Basic comment is that the game will become boring fairly quickly given the lack of PvP focus. How to fix that will be described below.

Channeling
—Make channeling interrupt-able with damage. The current CC only isn’t very fun.

Supply/Mobs – The point behind this section is to force more PvP.
—Remove the concept of supply. It is boring.
—A certain number of archers/door breakers should be released automatically periodically. This is more MOBA style.
—Have one or two capture points in the middle of the map (either one on the middle or one towards each side). Holding this point will increase the number/power/hp of the archers/door breakers.

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Posted by: Saiyan.1704

Saiyan.1704

I think that game is an awesome moba. I tried playing the popular mobas but felt the unit mechanics were utterly terrible. Not to mention the graphics were just as bad.

GW2 PvP mechanics doesn’t feel like a moba and it never will be. I don’t know how anyone can even start to comparing Stronghold to a Moba yet… people are as if it’s even part of the same genre.


No level growth to get stronger
No items/potions/wards to purchase.
No fog of war
No sentries for strategic manuevering throughout the map.
No jungle/adc/tank/support type roles.
Can facetank 5 minions at start.
Can walk to any objective on the map.
Needs supply runners to spawn minions.

The only similarities GW2 Stronghold PvP has with a MOBA is the word “Lanes” and “Minions”.

There is no comparison.

Archers, are such a joke that you can hardly call them an NPC. They hardly add any kind of threat or strategy to the map. Maybe if they had a cc effect or damage buff would I then think about how to engage 3 Archers, 2 bombs and a player escort appropriately. Especially since there’s players aggro, i’d likely have a person start off the engagement but that’s not currently needed.

There’s going to be a few more basic mechanic changes to implement but I feel this will evolve naturally as time goes.

aka FalseLights
Rank: Top 250 since Season 2
#5 best gerdien in wurld

(edited by Saiyan.1704)

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Posted by: Django.5923

Django.5923

hey guys Django here,

you may remember me from my pvp tactical guides….

I quit GW2 a while ago to play LOL and DOTA2, with this new “moba” like mode my hopes were high, but it’s just lacking so much at the moment.

Things I’d like;


it needs to be more like a moba

1. NPC’s are just too weak, it’s boring.

I want the build, the lane fights and the team phase. There are two options;
1. Make NPCS stronger
2. Make Players weaker.

I’d like option 2. it fits a moba more. I think there could be two options;

1. really let players level and build like in pve (choose skills, runes etc)

or the option I would suggest:

2. Players start with their normal build and runes etc. BUT at level 1, amulets scale with level gain (from creepkills)

so at start you deal less dmg to enemy players and npcs, allowing for a lane phase and a longer build.
________________________________________________

NPC spawning

I think the mechanic with the doors and doorbreakers is so boring. Why invent the wheel anew? take towers who kill players and minions (ditch the treb for AI towers), leave the doors away, and ditch the whole supply thing. let minions spawn automatically, inhibitors etc. included.

I really love Mobas. What I don’t like that much about them is the graphics and the view. Also I don’t like when it rellies too much on item builds, I like pvp to be more skill based rather than gear.

So my DREAM is (my dreamgame.. if you can do it with stronghold <3 <3 <3);

MOBA;

- GuildWars2 Combat system, cameraview, movement etc.
- MOBA map, (like LOL, inhibitors, Turrets, Nexus’, Jungle)
- Not too over the top farming (Amuletchoice scales with levelgain), so it goes more about how you play and gain exp rather than which item you buy
- champions or heroes are just the possible builds you “preselect” (the skills and weapons and runes you choose)

please please do it, stronghold now is just so boring

Also make matches LONGER. We have enough PvP possibilities to just play a quick match.

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Posted by: Lorraine.2104

Lorraine.2104

I don’t understand the points system on Stronghold. Myself and my party member played stronghold for 2 hrs solid. We carried out all the objectives in the game, i.e get supply, use doorbreakers, guards, protect them as they go to the oppositions keep, spawn your champions to help, get through to the enemies keep, fight off the enemies team on the way etc. Numerous times, my party member and I were the only ones to kill the enemies lord and win the match for our team, but nearly all the time we were like 3rd and 4th on points. I feel like we did a heck of a lot to win the game, but those peeps who just duelled each other in the middle of the map and did nothing else, got the most points.

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Posted by: Ellye.9123

Ellye.9123

Really not having fun with this map.

I even do like the idea of making a MOBA-style map, but I’m not enjoying the way this one was implemented.

One “attack lane” and one “defense lane” doesn’t feel like a good setup, and there’s way too little incentive to fight players.

Honestly? I think if we are to have a MOBA-style map, just go all out MOBA-style. Three lanes, symmetrical, automated towers, automated minion spawn, some sort of in-match power up, etc.

(edited by Ellye.9123)

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Posted by: philheat.3956

philheat.3956

Copy/paste

Have you considered a different matrix score / odds (and consequently pips gained) for Stronghold?

Because scoring 300 pts in Stronghold is not the same thing that lose (or win) 500-300 in conquest.

Totally different game mode and score system.

I’ve the feeling the lack of experience with this new game mode and the score system will create some issue during the PvP Leagues

I don’t think Stronghold and conquest will have different progressions in league (I mean there won’t be separate leagues for stronghold and conquest) so the number of pips gained (or lost) need to be tested with stronghold.

For conquest we have already the old matrix score for the previous test seasons but for stronghold we have nothing.

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Posted by: Eagelseye.6312

Eagelseye.6312

The Stronghold seems to be a teenage version of similar maps in World of Warcraft like Alterac Valley or Strand of Ancients. There is hardly anything other than rush boss and finish.

If you wish to bring true PvP then take some tips from the above two games where a team is required to conquer couple of towers and kill a mini boss before reaching a certain point level where they can go and attack the final boss.

At present this map doesn’t seem that promising, but some further additions and a bit of redesigning can add a lot to it and take the game to the next level.

PvP mail DH and Thief, PvE main Staff Tempest/Druid/PS

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Posted by: Archaon.9524

Archaon.9524

Stronghold is not a moba (Let alone being even close to esports) it’s just a way to let pve guys do something if they can’t handle rotations and teamfights in conquest…they can still go for supply, kill minions, fight gates with guards and random ai crap like they’re used to do in zerg vs zerg and so on…nothing more nothing less, it’s as far as possible from being anyway near to a skillbased game mode

There’s a reason why noone in pvp gives a kitten to stronghold…it’s pretty much just a ball pool for pve heroes and the more people playing stronghold the less going svanir at start or 3v1ing eles on close

So, at the end of the day, pushing randoms into stronghold instead of conquest (Expec ranked) sounds like a nice deal to me…everyone wins but, for the love of god, don’t try to call it competitive

Ark 2nd Account

(edited by Archaon.9524)

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Posted by: Atharian.7092

Atharian.7092

I liked it. But, they need to make sure it does not turn into another Alterac Valley, where both teams just race each other to the enemy boss… I also think its a little too frustrating to play defence right now, as it often turns into a 1 v 3 + doorbreakers situation.

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Posted by: Hammerguard.9834

Hammerguard.9834

I don’t have much to say about this game mode. I feel it’s too easy to stall. Often times many enemy players will be on defense and in this case there’s nothing that can really be done. The game is halted until they realize they need to put some pressure.

Trebs also respawn too fast.

… I still want tengu.

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Posted by: Nova Pint Kiosk.7085

Nova Pint Kiosk.7085

the guards do way too much damage to the doorbreakers, and too little to players, not to mention how easily they die, and the fact that they have almost no real mechanics. There should be a way to heal your minions through their attacks, or a way that they might actually kill a player, or at least make it take longer so that you can’t just easily kill them and then focus on the actual player attacking you. Give them some kind of mechanics, be it blinds, knockdowns, or etc. Please learn from the monsters you’ve been making for silverwastes/HoT and use some of those mechanics where specific CC is important to stay alive.

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Posted by: Novuake.2691

Novuake.2691

Do the trees in the middle obstruct other people’s vision to when mid fights are going on?

Retriever Iiat – Asura Engineer
Private retriever of runaway NPCs
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Posted by: Erindriel.2351

Erindriel.2351

The NPCs are dumb. It would honestly be more fun with a focus on REAL siege.

Maybe make it something like spirit watch, where supply slows you down and you need x for events to happen. Example:

5 supply: first gate bombarded and soon broken by cannonfire, able to grab extra supply from enemy base.

10 supply: second gate broken, lord vulnerable.

every 5 supply after 10: a random hero joins the fight to help finish it.

With that you could also have NPCs spawn automatically like in a dota game, with the addition of something like ‘swordsman’ to complete the squad. 1 doorbreaker, 2 swordsmen, 2 archers — clashing against each other, with the doorbreaker unable to move past it’s defenders unless it’s near the gate.

That way players would have options. Do they want to fight for supply? Do they want to push the lane? Do they want to defend? etc etc.

Those are just some random thoughts. As a dota 2 player I am honestly not too thrilled with the game mode because the map is too small for a real in-depth moba experience, yet games also tend to drag on because people either don’t know what they’re doing or just 5-man defend when second gate is down. It’s just not very fun — though it’s functional and I can clearly see what the devs were going for. It’s a good try, but I feel like it needs work on a fundamental level.

On a side note, the real problem with the game mode is it’s confusing to new players. Conquest is simple: Cap points, kill players. Stronghold is adding way too much between one player wanting to fight another player.

(edited by Erindriel.2351)

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Posted by: Crinn.7864

Crinn.7864

My problem with this map is that there are no comebacks, and matches are nearly always lopsided.

The problem is once the inner gate is down or very close to being down, you have to go on defense or you will lose. Of course once you are on defense you forfeit all chances of winning and your defeat is a matter of time.

This map is pretty much won and lost in the opening play. The rest of the match is merely a formality.

Sanity is for the weak minded.
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Posted by: Dahkeus.8243

Dahkeus.8243

Haven’t replied here in a while, but I have had very positive impressions with this map since all the previous changes and right now, I think it’s good to go. My experience so far has been counter to Crinn in that I’ve had a LOT of really close games.

I’d be interested to see how this map pans out as we see more very high level tournament games played in it, but from an average player’s perspective, I think it’s a great addition and fills a very much needed role in diversifying GW2’s PvP.

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Posted by: Jaxom.7310

Jaxom.7310

My problem with this map is that there are no comebacks, and matches are nearly always lopsided.

The problem is once the inner gate is down or very close to being down, you have to go on defense or you will lose. Of course once you are on defense you forfeit all chances of winning and your defeat is a matter of time.

This map is pretty much won and lost in the opening play. The rest of the match is merely a formality.

not entirely, if your team can wipe the enemy in your lord’s room, and maintain def, you’ll prob get more points than the enemy, and win w/ points. dats wat happened me to a match dis weekend. for the enemy to win after a lord room wipe they need to really re-coord the off push, and ensure they can whittle down the adds and the boss

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Posted by: Rym.1469

Rym.1469

Three things:

Dying in Enemy’s Lord room should increase your respawn timer by 15-25s.

Currently, it’s too easy to just keep coming back with nearly suicidal missions because of hillariously short respawn timers if you have good mobility, while the other team is caught in never ending loop of defending and get nothing from it – the creep spawn point is too far for non-thieves etc.

If you failed in Lord’s room, you should be punished. Period.

Increase amount of Archers you can spawn from 1 supply as the game goes on. It could also apply to Doorbreakers, but I’m not so sure about it.

So let’s say when your game goes for longer than 7-10 minutes one supply spawns two mobs and scales further.

Third thing:

(Speaking from HotS player POV) I’d like to see third map mechanic. We have archers/bombers and then we have hero spawns. That’s two, IMO kinda like regular creeps+merc/boss camps.

But with just Mercs/Boss/Creep mechanics HotS matches could also go on forever. That’s why each map has it’s own unique mechanic helping you push. Be it artilerry shooting at foe’s structures, etc.

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(edited by Rym.1469)

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Posted by: Barsity.9408

Barsity.9408

Why is there pve in my pvp?

THIS so much… I know my comment in no way furthers this conversation along, but I just wanted to sign my account name to this so ANet knows where I stand. If I wanted to play a MOBA, I would have stayed playing ranked League of Legends.

Lireil [SG] – Blackgate

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Posted by: Thunderbird.4298

Thunderbird.4298

This is a TEAM mode and should not be compared to conquest in terms of solo qing. I have done countless games with a full team against other organized groups and it is one hell of an experience. I have never heard more communication on tsts before since everyone is engaged in different plays, fights, objectives and roles. Once it seems like everything is settling down a hero comes up which throws people across the map and opens up game changing opportunities. Treb is the perfect counter play to the hero buffs since it goes through stab and levels the area. There are no perfect strats or required classes, if anything it opens up more possibilities for the substation of less played classes and builds. The only things I do have a gripe with would be the ability for some classes to stand on top of a gate or los from behind and still take out all the door breakers from safety. E.g zerker staff ele. I also understand not being able to attack the gate, but attacking through it doesn’t make much sense. Lastly, it would be nice if the nps had even the slightest condi clear so a 5 shouts guard isn’t required for baby sitting them. I still love this map though!

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Posted by: blakdoxa.7520

blakdoxa.7520

Is there any chance of there being a separate stronghold queue? I’ve been off pvp for a while and recently returned to my first stronghold match.
I’m not too much a fan of pve in pvp nor this lame attempt at being a moba.
Still I glanced over this very thread to see how stronghold worked and it was very disappointing to see all you had to do was rush the lord. This game mode doesn’t even required pvp, it’s so sad…
I’d rather grind my brain to dust in conq all day than to play stronghold, at all.

Devona’s Rest

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Posted by: TheGrimm.5624

TheGrimm.5624

Got a solid 3 days of games in. Game mode is looking really good. Again tried a mix of going in solo and teams of 2-5 people. Game mode is still extremely fast paced. The constantly changing situations made some decisions key and also could spell defeat. We mixed a couple of conquest in along the way and it made those games seem simple by comparison. Experienced some of the same as above. TS in Stronghold was much more focused on people calling numbers, rotations and situations where as the Conquest games people simply talked football while playing or chatted about their weekend.

  • Couple of issues, hero channeling while in Elite form or Moa form seemed a serious edge with those builds. If that is intended then it is what it is.
  • Watermill in supply is hard block to treb, not sure that is changeable. Treb power and turn speed seemed fine.
  • Mist hero, saw one instance where the mist hero rotation was off. Normal rotation was 1 hero, 1 hero, 2 hero 2 hero 2 hero. One game had a 1 hero, 2 hero, 1 hero, 2 hero 2 hero. Maybe it was me but guildy remarked on it as well. But might have been both of us losing track of which rotation it was on.
  • Player kills in lord room. Go round and round here. One side of me says they should be worth more but afraid that would create turtling considering did see some games won already by holding off attacking teams that had gotten the doors down first so leaning towards let it ride. In general player kills going up by a few more points across the entire board may not be bad. But ANet has the stats so that’s an odd call without more information.
  • Not being able to rally off the NPCs is still a positive.

Even if all the above stayed the same I think its in a ready to go position based on testing this weekend. Excited to see it added to the playlists.

GW/PoTBS/WAR/Rift/WAR/GW2/CU

De Mortuis Nil Nisi Bonum.

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Posted by: TheGrimm.5624

TheGrimm.5624

Is there any chance of there being a separate stronghold queue? I’ve been off pvp for a while and recently returned to my first stronghold match.
I’m not too much a fan of pve in pvp nor this lame attempt at being a moba.
Still I glanced over this very thread to see how stronghold worked and it was very disappointing to see all you had to do was rush the lord. This game mode doesn’t even required pvp, it’s so sad…
I’d rather grind my brain to dust in conq all day than to play stronghold, at all.

You missed the check boxes in the Play screen. Default for weekend was Stronghold on and Conquest off. Also sadly this was necro thread from all the betas. Out of three days saw only 1 attempt at rush the lord at start work and that was due to some new people that had never played the map against people that had. A single defender was still often able to hold multiple people off, and I don’t think a lot of people have started running stronghold specialized builds yet either.

GW/PoTBS/WAR/Rift/WAR/GW2/CU

De Mortuis Nil Nisi Bonum.

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Posted by: blakdoxa.7520

blakdoxa.7520

Is there any chance of there being a separate stronghold queue? I’ve been off pvp for a while and recently returned to my first stronghold match.
I’m not too much a fan of pve in pvp nor this lame attempt at being a moba.
Still I glanced over this very thread to see how stronghold worked and it was very disappointing to see all you had to do was rush the lord. This game mode doesn’t even required pvp, it’s so sad…
I’d rather grind my brain to dust in conq all day than to play stronghold, at all.

You missed the check boxes in the Play screen. Default for weekend was Stronghold on and Conquest off. Also sadly this was necro thread from all the betas. Out of three days saw only 1 attempt at rush the lord at start work and that was due to some new people that had never played the map against people that had. A single defender was still often able to hold multiple people off, and I don’t think a lot of people have started running stronghold specialized builds yet either.

Thanks man! Missed the check boxes before.

Devona’s Rest

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Posted by: Xillllix.3485

Xillllix.3485

I would say that first of all Stronghold needs more maps.
It’s impossible to get the feel of a game mode playing only one map. It’s feels like we’re playing the map, not the game mode.

We need to see how stronghold would be on a cliffside, or in an open environment, or on a volcano, in a canyon, etc.

Is this the only Stronghold map that has been made in the last 2 years or do you have more on the way?

Also the PvE elements are too present. People wanted GvG and this is the complete opposite.

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Posted by: Pandabro.8743

Pandabro.8743

1. Guards should be insanely hard for players to kill without archers. The fact that Guards take about 15-20 seconds to kill by any PVP build is really hurting this mode. It means there’s almost no choice in what you spawn for 90% of the game. This is the key that’s making the mode just a big offensive rush to kill lord instead of the mix of offense and defense it should be. Perhaps Guards have a buff that can be removed by Archers which makes them take a lot less damage. Buffing Guard damage in general would be great they literally seem to be less scary than even a single archer attacking you.

2. Starting out with supply feels odd. I understand that you want people not to just rush middle and fight for supply but perhaps just have 2 doorbreakers and 2 archers spawn automatically for each team? Currently it’s not intuitive that you actually start with supply, literally took me 3-4 games to realize I had supply at the start of games.

3. Treb is really awkward. It’s easy to contest as you are killing guards so it makes the person who’s manning the treb have a really hard time actually using it to defend. On Kyhlo it’s easy to bomb points but on this map it’s hard to see where fighting is actually happening and where you need to be firing if there’s not something directly at your gate. I feel like the Treb is just a really bad defensive tool in this map, it’s highly effective when uncontested but it’s just so easy to shut down with little cost to the opposing team.

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Posted by: Otokomae.9356

Otokomae.9356

Ok, so I’ve run about at least 20 Stronghold matches this weekend, & the problem I’m seeing is that there is essentially NO REASON TO FIGHT ANYONE.

The map is set up basically like 2 separate dungeons, with teams racing to finish their dungeon first. It is a race to finish the enemy Lord; for teams that are playing to win the match, there is no other aspect to this map whatsoever. There is NO INCENTIVE TO DEFEND your Lord at all. Defending the Lord just means that you are losing a little more slowly; you are not winning. It is IMPOSSIBLE TO WIN BY DEFENDING. That’s right, there is absolutely no possible way to win kill the enemy Lord by defending your Lord. The only way to win this map is by rushing the enemy Lord as fast as possible, meaning that any fights you engage in with the enemy team are a complete waste of your time. If any Devs are reading this, feel free to look up my account to see my win-loss record on this map; rushing the Lord as fast as possible, while avoiding any other objectives that don’t get you to the Lord, is the only reliable way to win this map.

I’ve also seen a lot of teams who do dedicate a whole team to defending. I’ve been on teams that got full-wiped in the Lord’s room 4-5 times, but we still won the match. We were IN the Lord’s room! It takes less than 10 seconds after you respawn to run back to the enemy Lord’s room, so there’s absolutely no reason not to simply yolo in over and over until you’ve finally worn the Lord’s health down to zero. And while your enemies are wasting time defending their Lord, you can infinitely respawn Heroes and Archers to send in to the enemy Lord’s room while you regroup to run over there, keeping the enemy defenders trapped in that room.

The meta for this map is already laid out: Full zerk, full DPS on every member of the party, rush the enemy Lord as fast as possible, avoid anything that might slow you down (like fights or secondary mechanics), & immediately run back to the Lord on respawn until he goes down. Anything else you do is simply stalling your inevitable loss. As I said, it is IMPOSSIBLE to kill the enemy Lord from your own Lord’s room. Defending, tanking, healing, fighting, anything that slows down your party’s objective of killing the enemy Lord (an NPC) is a complete waste of time, if your team’s goal is to win on this map.

Basically, it’s a dungeon. I assume that, for once, [DnT] is going to finally lord over an entire map in PvP now.

Bakuon/Bakuon Thief [MAS]/ ex-[ATac]

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Posted by: Pandabro.8743

Pandabro.8743

I’ve also seen a lot of teams who do dedicate a whole team to defending. I’ve been on teams that got full-wiped in the Lord’s room 4-5 times, but we still won the match. We were IN the Lord’s room! It takes less than 10 seconds after you respawn to run back to the enemy Lord’s room, so there’s absolutely no reason not to simply yolo in over and over until you’ve finally worn the Lord’s health down to zero.

I’ve seen this quite a bit too. It feels like the lord and his minions in the room should really regenerate/revive if they haven’t been damaged for about 20-30 seconds. Successful defenses don’t really feel successful when you can’t make any meaningful action because you know the entire team is respawning and charging right back into the room to suicide themselves on the last 30% of the Lord’s life pool.

Something that could help this is increasing the respawn timer as time goes on. In Conquest the short respawn timer works because if you die and someone caps a point you are actively moving further from your goal. If you die in Stronghold you still probably made considerably progress towards your goal. Imagine if popular MOBAs had the same static death timer, games could literally go on forever because you could never mount a successful offensive push from a defensive position. This could also replace the current “hard cap” on the time which feels terrible. If you get to your 10th minute and your team wipes the other team and they have a minute or longer respawn timer you could easily push into their base and kill their lord before they even respawn.

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Posted by: that baby stealing dingo.7216

that baby stealing dingo.7216

Long story short this game mode might be fun to mess around in but I can’t stress enough I hope that you all are not investing into this game mode over conquest balance…

This. One thousand times this. Limited resources could be put to better use.

I have a sword, a dagger, and an estimated life span of 2.47 seconds.

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Posted by: Firebird.8324

Firebird.8324

Ok, so I’ve run about at least 20 Stronghold matches this weekend, & the problem I’m seeing is that there is essentially NO REASON TO FIGHT ANYONE.

The map is set up basically like 2 separate dungeons, with teams racing to finish their dungeon first. It is a race to finish the enemy Lord; for teams that are playing to win the match, there is no other aspect to this map whatsoever. There is NO INCENTIVE TO DEFEND your Lord at all. Defending the Lord just means that you are losing a little more slowly; you are not winning. It is IMPOSSIBLE TO WIN BY DEFENDING. That’s right, there is absolutely no possible way to win kill the enemy Lord by defending your Lord. The only way to win this map is by rushing the enemy Lord as fast as possible, meaning that any fights you engage in with the enemy team are a complete waste of your time. If any Devs are reading this, feel free to look up my account to see my win-loss record on this map; rushing the Lord as fast as possible, while avoiding any other objectives that don’t get you to the Lord, is the only reliable way to win this map.

I’ve also seen a lot of teams who do dedicate a whole team to defending. I’ve been on teams that got full-wiped in the Lord’s room 4-5 times, but we still won the match. We were IN the Lord’s room! It takes less than 10 seconds after you respawn to run back to the enemy Lord’s room, so there’s absolutely no reason not to simply yolo in over and over until you’ve finally worn the Lord’s health down to zero. And while your enemies are wasting time defending their Lord, you can infinitely respawn Heroes and Archers to send in to the enemy Lord’s room while you regroup to run over there, keeping the enemy defenders trapped in that room.

The meta for this map is already laid out: Full zerk, full DPS on every member of the party, rush the enemy Lord as fast as possible, avoid anything that might slow you down (like fights or secondary mechanics), & immediately run back to the Lord on respawn until he goes down. Anything else you do is simply stalling your inevitable loss. As I said, it is IMPOSSIBLE to kill the enemy Lord from your own Lord’s room. Defending, tanking, healing, fighting, anything that slows down your party’s objective of killing the enemy Lord (an NPC) is a complete waste of time, if your team’s goal is to win on this map.

Basically, it’s a dungeon. I assume that, for once, [DnT] is going to finally lord over an entire map in PvP now.

First, little about myself, I play the guard The Big Damage for team Radioactive and have played Stronghold at the highest competitive level. We placed second in the only stronghold tournament and I’ve competed in the twitchcon exhibition matches.

First, you CAN win only by defending, we did this, in the actual strong hold tournament a few months ago, worked great. Second, this a fun game match that DOES involve killing other players or shooing them off of things like treb or buffs. Third, to be effective you HAVE to defend and go offensive simultaneously, have people with builds dedicated to both and have at it. If you go 5 offense all the enemy needs to do is treb and bomb with zerker staff eles then smash your door and take your lord, if you do 5 defense you have the problem where you can simply get overrun bombers and Champions. So, in essence, you should be having your team do both offense and defense, and should come out with many player kills.

All in all, this game mode has a great ebb and flow to it and will make for a very interesting match, provided shoutcasters figure it out too. Realistically, it is terrible for solo queue because, unlike conquest, people have roles they really should be fulfilling, and if they aren’t, then you get bad experiences and complain about the game type. So, I would recommend making it a game mode that can only be queued up for with 5 queues, just my thought.

Over Powered Necro [dk] (Bird of Fire)
One spam to rule them all!
Mains Power Necro for team Radioactive[dk]

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Posted by: Vieux P.1238

Vieux P.1238

How much you wanna bet, no matter what changes.
Giving ppl the chkbox option.
That after a month of playing that chkbox is gonna be OFF at all time?

I prolly go Afk if they took the chkbox out.

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Posted by: Wolf.8520

Wolf.8520

First, this Stronghold event weekend I played in the range of 15 to 25 matches, and last beta weekend event I played 25 to 30 matches. I have played solo queue, and with an organized party on TS3.

That being said, I’d like to compliment the PvP developers for Stronghold. The game mode feels balanced—teams must play offence and defense if they expect to win. Next, the fast pace of the game mode makes it remarkably fun to play.

In general, my advice is to not make any major changes to Stronghold, such as buffing the NPC’s by making them deal more damage, or giving them a larger health pool, or allowing them to regenerate health. Teams that want to heal the NPC’s can easily do this themselves, for instance the Guardian elite skill Signet of Courage fully heals NPC’s. All in all, if you buff the NPC’s, you will slow down the pace of the game. In my opinion, this would be a mistake. Moreover, increasing spawn time would have the similar effect.

The only thing that I request is that there be separate queues for Stronghold and Conquest. Thanks.

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Posted by: eldenbri.1059

eldenbri.1059

Seems like this feedback would be a lot easier to parse if people provided more data. I played somewhere around 20 matches. I rarely pvp (just made dolyak this weekend). I do a lot of WvW roaming, so I’m used to small fights.

Overall experience was really enjoyable. I can see myself playing this mode (and am unlikely to play conquest very much).

It feels like it’s tuned fine to be released. Increased health for heros is good.

In basically every game, I went straight to the treb and played defense. I found I could help a lot and score plenty of points. I had plenty of interesting fights as people came to boot me out. There were times when I left the treb to summon a hero or even occassionally push the offensive. Most of the time if I left the treb, it was to help defend in the lords room.

I was always solo. Against other teams that were solo players, the team I was on often did well. It seemed fairly uncommon that anyone else on my team wanted to play defense (but there were certainly some times). Most of the matches were fairly even for at least the first bit. The closest match we won with a player stomp in our lords room right before the timer expired. One time, my team dramatically outscored the others. Twice the opposing team seemed to be pre-made (all five once, and 3 others another time). My team lost badly both times. The attackers would send two or three dedicated people to wipe me on the treb, and I just couldn’t ask for help quickly enough. I assume the premades had good players as well as good communication – it was telling in the results.

As a mesmer, it was really fun to play defense with blink. Being able to blink up to the treb or to the overhead walkways past the outer door is really fun. The blink target is a little sensitive about spots to pick on the treb cliff which gets a bit tense if you’re 1v2. The little ledges leading into the lord’s room are annoying because you can’t blink to get into that room.

Bottom line – I enjoyed it and will play it when HoT comes out.

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Posted by: Johje Holan.4607

Johje Holan.4607

Seems to me that Stronghold needs to be pre-made teams only. It requires much more team coordination than Conquest. It requires much more communication.

You can’t simply look at the mini-map and easily judge what’s going on or where you need to be or what you should be doing. Its fairly easy to see where your players are in Conquest and know what you should be doing. Not so with Stronghold.

Without players communicating it becomes… frustrating.

I think they should make it team only. Guild groups or teams. And make a good leaderboard so that teams will be able to see where they stand.

Stronghold really benefits from team communication. And without it I think it’ll get old really fast.

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Posted by: Daishi.6027

Daishi.6027

The biggest issue I mostly have is for the game type needs a bit more jousting between players. As it stands there is just to much room to move and your not punished for retreating.

“I control time and space; you can’t break free.~”
“Maybe I was the illusion all along!”

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Posted by: morrolan.9608

morrolan.9608

Ok, so I’ve run about at least 20 Stronghold matches this weekend, & the problem I’m seeing is that there is essentially NO REASON TO FIGHT ANYONE.

All in all, this game mode has a great ebb and flow to it and will make for a very interesting match, provided shoutcasters figure it out too. Realistically, it is terrible for solo queue because, unlike conquest, people have roles they really should be fulfilling, and if they aren’t, then you get bad experiences and complain about the game type. So, I would recommend making it a game mode that can only be queued up for with 5 queues, just my thought.

I can see how this would be the case, its going to be good with fully co-ordinated teams. But for solo players it ends up being as the previous poster suggested, just a race for the lord with no pvp whatsoever which is why I haven’t played it for the last 2-3 beta events. I also think for soloq players it would be better with a bigger group, maybe 8-10 players.

Jade Quarry [SoX]
Miranda Zero – Ele / Twitch Zero – Mes / Chargrin Soulboom – Engi
Aliera Zero – Guardian / Reaver Zero – Necro

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Posted by: Los Re.4607

Los Re.4607

I’m starting to be a bit pessimistic about SH because it seems that Arena Net is not going to change anything big in it, and it’s a shame since it has a lot of potential.

One thing they could change and imo it would really upgrade, the whole mode/map, for the best would be to interrupt channeling with simple attacks. This will promote the fights and people will stop ingoring each other on points. What Arena Net needs to understand is that on channeling points you won’t see a 5vs5 but rather a 1vs1 or a 2vs2. In these situations having 10 stacks of stab or an elite form it’s in reality very unbalanced and lets you to just go for the channeling instead of focusing of winning the fight. This should never happen in a pvp environment.

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Posted by: feight.2704

feight.2704

IMO they should just get rid of door breakers.
i’m thinking of a kind of mix between Spirit Watch and Stronghold.
the players (or an hero) could be carrying a bomb to the enemies door.
that bomb cripple the carrier a tiny bit, and preventing him from attacking . that would encourage a bit more team play, and give more space to use the combat mechanism like stealth, Boons, CC ,ect.
i like the idea of stronghold, But more of the “Ebb and Flow” has to come from the players actions.

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Posted by: TheGrimm.5624

TheGrimm.5624

As stated above I played both solo and with varying team sizes. I would leave the ability for people to queue for it as it is now. It is even more challenging to play it when queuing solo but that allows for people to practice their own roles and to experience a wide range of potential situations that they can then take back to their team play. I am working under the assumption that match making will continue to do what its doing to build team makeups when queuing in less than 5’s.

GW/PoTBS/WAR/Rift/WAR/GW2/CU

De Mortuis Nil Nisi Bonum.