Guild Wars 2

After watching some of the videos from today of the stronghold matches, Im beginning to think that stronghold will appeal less to the pvp crowd, and more the pve crowd. The map size along with the additional objectives spread out throughout the map made enemy encounters pretty rare. I saw a lot more of people bringing supply and killing or escorting guards/minions than actual fights.

The one philosophy I hate about Anet is that inspite of the fact that they are making something PvP(player versus player), they still insist on designing a mode that is incredibly forgiving to people who are bad at PvP(timing skills, knowing your class/rotation, coordinating with your team.)

The whole mode sounds like they want to turn gw2 into a moba

Looks more like smite’s Arena, which I did hate. All the mechanics of the moba without the terrible POV.

From what I have seen of stronghold, I will enjoy it.

Think what people forget is that any decision by Anet will have its detractors.

SobeSoul.6910:

From what I have seen of stronghold, I will enjoy it.

Think what people forget is that any decision by Anet will have its detractors.

You can’t make everybody happy.

The only MMO that can make everybody happy are either not real or are dead.

We won’t know if it is fun or not until we play. First impressions aren’t always correct. Someone at ANET actually thought skyhammer was fun immediately after they built it.

I’m reserving judgement until I actually experience it.

Stronghold looks so fun!!! I want to try it out RIGHT NOW!!! The best part is there isn’t any optimal strategies yet, so there is the chance to get creative in figuring out how to come up with good strategies and counters!!

As a pvp purist, I for one am super excited about the map and its mechanics! As I’ve always contested, anything to bring more numbers into the pvp playerbase is a good thing. If this “appeals” to PvErs, then by all minds, I don’t think that’s a bad thing. In fact, it’s the opposite.

It is very important to keep in mind that the majority of people we see in these videos are NOT hardcore pvpers, so what we see isn’t exactly what will go down in “competitive” play.

So far, BRAVO to anet! HoT Stronghold hype!

MailMail.6534:

As a pvp purist, I for one am super excited about the map and its mechanics! As I’ve always contested, anything to bring more numbers into the pvp playerbase is a good thing. If this “appeals” to PvErs, then by all minds, I don’t think that’s a bad thing. In fact, it’s the opposite.

It is very important to keep in mind that the majority of people we see in these videos are NOT hardcore pvpers, so what we see isn’t exactly what will go down in “competitive” play.

So far, BRAVO to anet! HoT Stronghold hype!

Its bad because it puts even less emphasis on actual PvP when its a PvP mode.

SkylightMoon.1980:

Its bad because it puts even less emphasis on actual PvP when its a PvP mode.

PvP doesn’t mean just death-match. Stronghold has more interesting strategic decisions, pacing, and ways to draw out player fights. MoBas also have ai characters and “PvE” like you say, and nobody complains they aren’t pvp. Tapping into that popularity is a great thing. Even better if the new mode is accessible to all levels of players and doesn’t have as steep of a learning curve, while still having a high skill ceiling for players to strive for.

BlackBeard.2873:

SkylightMoon.1980:

Its bad because it puts even less emphasis on actual PvP when its a PvP mode.

PvP doesn’t mean just death-match. Stronghold has more interesting strategic decisions, pacing, and ways to draw out player fights. MoBas also have ai characters and “PvE” like you say, and nobody complains they aren’t pvp. Tapping into that popularity is a great thing. Even better if the new mode is accessible to all levels of players and doesn’t have as steep of a learning curve, while still having a high skill ceiling for players to strive for.

Of course it doesn’t. Thats because the combat of Moba’s is a lot simpler, so basing a mode simply around the combat wouldn’t work well in a moba. Its different in guild wars 2. It has the best combat out of any MMO currently and it doesn’t utilize it to the max. Making something like a Moba for gw2 is just going to encourage more gimmicky builds, like the permastealth thief to stealth minions, and take more away from actual teamfights.

SkylightMoon.1980:

BlackBeard.2873:

SkylightMoon.1980:

Its bad because it puts even less emphasis on actual PvP when its a PvP mode.

PvP doesn’t mean just death-match. Stronghold has more interesting strategic decisions, pacing, and ways to draw out player fights. MoBas also have ai characters and “PvE” like you say, and nobody complains they aren’t pvp. Tapping into that popularity is a great thing. Even better if the new mode is accessible to all levels of players and doesn’t have as steep of a learning curve, while still having a high skill ceiling for players to strive for.

Of course it doesn’t. Thats because the combat of Moba’s is a lot simpler, so basing a mode simply around the combat wouldn’t work well in a moba. Its different in guild wars 2. It has the best combat out of any MMO currently and it doesn’t utilize it to the max. Making something like a Moba for gw2 is just going to encourage more gimmicky builds, like the permastealth thief to stealth minions, and take more away from actual teamfights.

Then maybe shadow-arts will get the nerfs every wvw player has dreamed of for years!!

SkylightMoon.1980:

MailMail.6534:

As a pvp purist, I for one am super excited about the map and its mechanics! As I’ve always contested, anything to bring more numbers into the pvp playerbase is a good thing. If this “appeals” to PvErs, then by all minds, I don’t think that’s a bad thing. In fact, it’s the opposite.

It is very important to keep in mind that the majority of people we see in these videos are NOT hardcore pvpers, so what we see isn’t exactly what will go down in “competitive” play.

So far, BRAVO to anet! HoT Stronghold hype!

Its bad because it puts even less emphasis on actual PvP when its a PvP mode.

Wait, how is the emphasis less on PvP? What would you prefer, a pure deathmatch map? Better yet, you make several complaints about Stronghold already, but how would you change things based on your current observations?

You also never addressed anything in my post, so I don’t know why you used quotations at all.

MailMail.6534:

SkylightMoon.1980:

MailMail.6534:

As a pvp purist, I for one am super excited about the map and its mechanics! As I’ve always contested, anything to bring more numbers into the pvp playerbase is a good thing. If this “appeals” to PvErs, then by all minds, I don’t think that’s a bad thing. In fact, it’s the opposite.

It is very important to keep in mind that the majority of people we see in these videos are NOT hardcore pvpers, so what we see isn’t exactly what will go down in “competitive” play.

So far, BRAVO to anet! HoT Stronghold hype!

Its bad because it puts even less emphasis on actual PvP when its a PvP mode.

Wait, how is the emphasis less on PvP? What would you prefer, a pure deathmatch map? Better yet, you make several complaints about Stronghold already, but how would you change things based on your current observations?

You also never addressed anything in my post, so I don’t know why you used quotations at all.

At least with conquest, the additional objectives are few and simple to understand, and the mode remains about team fights, 1v1’s, etc. The map needs to either have a larger team size or be smaller. The amount of additional objectives + the size of the map for 5 players made the amount of other player encounters seems quite few from the footage ive seen. Lets just not make a mode that rewards people on being bad at what the game mode should be about, PvP.

Running supply and killing pve mobs isn’t PvP.

SkylightMoon.1980:

MailMail.6534:

SkylightMoon.1980:

MailMail.6534:

As a pvp purist, I for one am super excited about the map and its mechanics! As I’ve always contested, anything to bring more numbers into the pvp playerbase is a good thing. If this “appeals” to PvErs, then by all minds, I don’t think that’s a bad thing. In fact, it’s the opposite.

It is very important to keep in mind that the majority of people we see in these videos are NOT hardcore pvpers, so what we see isn’t exactly what will go down in “competitive” play.

So far, BRAVO to anet! HoT Stronghold hype!

Its bad because it puts even less emphasis on actual PvP when its a PvP mode.

Wait, how is the emphasis less on PvP? What would you prefer, a pure deathmatch map? Better yet, you make several complaints about Stronghold already, but how would you change things based on your current observations?

You also never addressed anything in my post, so I don’t know why you used quotations at all.

At least with conquest, the additional objectives are few and simple to understand, and the mode remains about team fights, 1v1’s, etc. The map needs to either have a larger team size or be smaller. The amount of additional objectives + the size of the map for 5 players made the amount of other player encounters seems quite few from the footage ive seen. Lets just not make a mode that rewards people on being bad at what the game mode should be about, PvP.

Running supply and killing pve mobs isn’t PvP.

Ah ok your argument holds weight when you put it like that.

I think 5 players is decent enough to start off. You can always play it in your custom arena with as many players as you like. I just like the idea that this will bring more people into the pvp arena that otherwise wouldn’t be here. I think nothing but good things can come from it.

I do get your point though. The necessity of mobs is a deviation from pure pvp, but I don’t think that’s a bad thing. I think if they gave us more maps of the different game types, we’d see more overall satisfaction from the community. More conquest maps (bring Capricorn back!), more Death-match maps and more Stronghold maps.

SkylightMoon.1980:

After watching some of the videos from today of the stronghold matches, Im beginning to think that stronghold will appeal less to the pvp crowd, and more the pve crowd. The map size along with the additional objectives spread out throughout the map made enemy encounters pretty rare. I saw a lot more of people bringing supply and killing or escorting guards/minions than actual fights.

The one philosophy I hate about Anet is that inspite of the fact that they are making something PvP(player versus player), they still insist on designing a mode that is incredibly forgiving to people who are bad at PvP(timing skills, knowing your class/rotation, coordinating with your team.)

+1

games for casuals will never be competitive..or esports..or however you wanna call it..

not saying anet should’t babysit casual players…but if they want to do so, then just give up on any sort of competitive scene already

casual friendly or competitive: pick one and forget the other

saying this since like…2 years ago, they still didn’t get it

I can’t wait!
This is gonna be a blast, and definetly PvP heavy. See an enemy escorting NPCs? You gotta deal with that enemy. See a good trebber? You will have to deal with them (1v1s, ganking them with 2 people, etc.). Team fights at mid? Roamer fights. It seems excellent

Archaon.9524:

games for casuals will never be competitive..or esports..or however you wanna call it..

not saying anet should’t babysit casual players…but if they want to do so, then just give up on any sort of competitive scene already

casual friendly or competitive: pick one and forget the other

saying this since like…2 years ago, they still didn’t get it

This is categorically false. Games need to be engaging for “casual” audience that makes up the largest majority of the player-base, while still having the complexity to support the highest tiers of players. Every single game that is popular (LoL, Smite, CS:GO) is played mostly by casuals and actually has a small percentage of “pros.”

As for complaints that stronghold is doesn’t promote players fighting players, that is just silly. All of the objectives are designed in such a way so as to promote both fights and strategic personnel movement. Sure, there are roles that players that aren’t as hardcore can take and still contribute, but they will always be doing less than players who are good at fighting. Even something like a supply runner can be taken advantage of by a good fighter who can gank and steal the supply. The fact that there are more phases to the game, which gives it a better sense of progression and pacing, is a GREAT thing for viewers and casters, making the game-mode more amenable to “esports”

BlackBeard.2873:

Archaon.9524:

games for casuals will never be competitive..or esports..or however you wanna call it..

not saying anet should’t babysit casual players…but if they want to do so, then just give up on any sort of competitive scene already

casual friendly or competitive: pick one and forget the other

saying this since like…2 years ago, they still didn’t get it

This is categorically false. Games need to be engaging for “casual” audience that makes up the largest majority of the player-base, while still having the complexity to support the highest tiers of players. Every single game that is popular (LoL, Smite, CS:GO) is played mostly by casuals and actually has a small percentage of “pros.”

As for complaints that stronghold is doesn’t promote players fighting players, that is just silly. All of the objectives are designed in such a way so as to promote both fights and strategic personnel movement. Sure, there are roles that players that aren’t as hardcore can take and still contribute, but they will always be doing less than players who are good at fighting. Even something like a supply runner can be taken advantage of by a good fighter who can gank and steal the supply. The fact that there are more phases to the game, which gives it a better sense of progression and pacing, is a GREAT thing for viewers and casters, making the game-mode more amenable to “esports”

I agree with that.

Personally i think we should wait with our judgement until we actually can play it.

BlackBeard.2873:

As for complaints that stronghold is doesn’t promote players fighting players, that is just silly. All of the objectives are designed in such a way so as to promote both fights and strategic personnel movement. Sure, there are roles that players that aren’t as hardcore can take and still contribute, but they will always be doing less than players who are good at fighting. Even something like a supply runner can be taken advantage of by a good fighter who can gank and steal the supply. The fact that there are more phases to the game, which gives it a better sense of progression and pacing, is a GREAT thing for viewers and casters, making the game-mode more amenable to “esports”

+1
This was my immediate thought when watching Stronghold matches. There’s a lot of strategic choices to be made into where you place your players. If there aren’t skirmishes happening all over the map, that’s probably due to poor strategic choices on both teams’ ends.

And I must repeat: this game was being tested by people who aren’t necessarily the most competitive. Some of the testers weren’t your typical esports players and some were. I say let’s not negatively prejudge the map and see how it works out when it reaches the different player bases.

SH looks amazing. so much to do, so much pvp. pve simply dictates game flow. you still have to win pvp fights to win the match.

I just watched a few of the matches and I have to say I was impressed. There were options to fight solo, to fight as a group, to use strategy.

I really liked what one guy said. I forget exactly what he said but the gist of it was that its not all about standing on a point and being the best actual fighter. Not only about split second timing, recognizing every skill animation and countering it, having to predict every move, etc.

It may be attractive to more than the hardcore PvP’er. Which I think is a good thing. It’ll broaden the playerbase.