Guild Wars 2

Hey guys, wall of text (but easy to read).

I was thinking about stealth and conquest mode this morning and realised that classes that use stealth in conquest mode really are at a dissadvantage when defending a node.

My sugestion would be, allow point HOLDING when in stealth. What I mean is if im currently holding a point for MY team, with (for example) my mesmer, I would like to be able use all my abilities to keep fighting for the node against another player without losing the captured status when I enter stealth. Because the way it works now , they just get seconds of free capping just because im trying to survive using my class mechanics.

But you might say "Oh but that would be unfair because we cant see you! " well when I enter stealth I dont enter and invincible state like some people like to coment on the forums, and leave to a nether realm. My character is still on the point and CAN be damaged by AOE and CCed in stealth (knocked down feared etc). Allowing you to keep killing me if I stay on the point.

“Oh but mass invisibility and Shadow refuge would make it too OP”, well I think the devs could creat a “special tag” for that type of stealth, meaning that if you are stealthed with one of those skills you cant hold the point (keeping it the way it works now).

This would allow for classes that use stealth, like mesmers and thieves to be able to fight forh is node, and not lose it just because he uses an intended class mechanic, to keep fighting for his teams node.

Bare in mind that Capturing a point while in stealth is a no-no, im talking about being able to keep it “contested” just like it happens when there is 1 member of each opposing team sitting on a point, and 1 is trying to capture it from the other.

TLDR: Allow point Holding in Stealth when it is your team’s point. Not to be confused with Capturing an enemies point in stealth (like it was allowed ages ago).

Thanks and Please share your thoughts on this

No, just no.
Then thieves would just keep points contested even 1v5.
“Oh but aoe and cc and aoe and cc”. Good luck finding the thief in mid node of foefire.

Its done this way so that perma stealth thieves can’t sit on a point indefinitely with no reasonable way to kill them, especially on a point like Graveyard. It has little counterplay, and the little it does have isn’t exactly interesting or skill based: maybe if I throw enough random AoE kitten all over this point I’ll get lucky and kill him.

It wont work buddy, then people can run perma-stealth build in legacy mid point just kittening stealthing forever in mid point

^

It’s not just legacy, it would be any point with a full tank/regen/stealth thief. The reason we don’t see any of those right now is that they can’t bunker points. If they could, they’d be everywhere.

Ugruk is right in one thing – this is just not fair, that thieves can’t use stealth to conquer nodes. It is like disallowing necros to hold them while in death shroud, mesmers when having 3 or more illusions, or warriors during endure pain/berserker stance.

Easiest solution from me – allow thieves to stay in stealth for 4 seconds. After that, they count as “away”, so enemy can capture a node. Also, make revealed reset the timer, so spamming C&D wouldn’t “lock” a node.

Dagins.5163:

Ugruk is right in one thing – this is just not fair, that thieves can’t use stealth to conquer nodes. It is like disallowing necros to hold them while in death shroud, mesmers when having 3 or more illusions, or warriors during endure pain/berserker stance.

Easiest solution from me – allow thieves to stay in stealth for 4 seconds. After that, they count as “away”, so enemy can capture a node. Also, make revealed reset the timer, so spamming C&D wouldn’t “lock” a node.

Thieves are also not hurt by chill as much as any of the other professions. But we don’t need to make rangers have their weapon skill cooldowns not affected by chill just to be “fair.”

@NevirSayDie
If you want to play like that – thieves share initiative between weapon sets, making their swaps for combos almost nonexistent, as opposed to other classes. Also, they still have 10 sec cooldown on swaps… but this is not our topic.

Terrible idea, Prismatic Understanding mesmers and Perma Stealth thieves would cause many computers to be broken in rage.

Just for your information: originally capping/defending points while stealthing was possible. It was disabled in the first month(s?) after release as far as I know, the reason being stealth abuse used to contest points permanently. I do not think ANet is going to reverse this change. They would have to overhaul stealth, which would stir up thief balance quite a bit, causing a lot of work. Sadly, I do not expect ANet to invest resources in this issue.

Ugruk.4069:

TLDR: Allow point Holding in Stealth when it is your team’s point.
Thanks and Please share your thoughts on this

No.

Well then they could create a debuff after being X seconds in stealth that wouldnt allow this feature. I mean we arent suposed to have an holy trinity yet when you think of “bunker” the first thing that comes to mind is Guardian, not allowing players explore other types of builds.

And why is it ok for a bunker guard to facetank 3 people for X seconds but not a bunker thief for example ? Isnt that kind of prejudiced?

Thief is the only class that can’t effectively bunker (unless they have some build I’m unaware of), every other class has some method of bunkering, although you can argue effectiveness.

Perma-stealthing thief bunkers are toxic to the game-mode. It shouldn’t be hard to see why fighting someone you can never see is bad gameplay.

Bhawb.7408:

Perma-stealthing thief bunkers are toxic to the game-mode. It shouldn’t be hard to see why fighting someone you can never see is bad gameplay.

Surely fighting a bunker warrior with perma vigor, cleansing all conditions every few seconds (not to mention berserker stance), regenerating +800 hp/s is more enjoyable. But guardians are even worse, because before you manage to burst them down, they pop their infamous ,,bubble" and are at 100%hp again – and this can’t be even interrupted.

As I suggested, make a small counter mechanism to stealth capping, and allow thieves to hold/conquer points while being cloaked. This isn’t overpowered by any means.

I agree that this limits the options Thieves have in the gamemode, but the current implementation of stealth prevents this from being a reality. In spite of people that pronounce non-arguments like “L2P” and “it’s not invincibility” and the like, stealth has no real counter play beyond guesswork. A stealth thief that does not want to be killed, will not be killed.

At one point in history, Thieves could contest points while stealthed, and as any rational person could anticipate, it was broken.

Then how about implementing for example a mandatory revealed debuff after exiting stealth (the wait it works now you only get the revealed debuff if you attack with direct damage), or after X seconds of stealth. It would Solve the perma stealth stacking thiefs and allow changes like this to be possible.

But then again I think the stealth compalints are more about the psychological stress it brings then anything, at least in conquest game mode because, in reality, again using the thief has an example, he only stays on a point if he can kill the target, he cant actually try and stall until backup arrives without losing the node (using stealth). Otherwise he just leaves like we often see “oh spirit ranger/engi/ guardian” ( bunkers), better forget about it.

Just a quick edit: And what are exactly the counter plays of invulnerability for example?

Yet, again people accept very well guardians immunities regen and condi cleasing just because you can see them (but not touch :P).

And just to make it clear im not talking about a thief going to an Uncontested point and Capture it while in stealth that would be ridiculous.
Im just talking about being able to keep itcontested (staying neutral, not capping for one team nor the other) until one of them leaves/dies.

Ugruk.4069:

Then how about implementing for example a mandatory revealed debuff after exiting stealth (the wait it works now you only get the revealed debuff if you attack with direct damage), or after X seconds of stealth. It would Solve the perma stealth stacking thiefs and allow changes like this to be possible.

But then again I think the stealth compalints are more about the psychological stress it brings then anything, at least in conquest game mode because, in reality, again using the thief has an example, he only stays on a point if he can kill the target, he cant actually try and stall until backup arrives without losing the node (using stealth). Otherwise he just leaves like we often see “oh spirit ranger/engi/ guardian” ( bunkers), better forget about it.

Just a quick edit: And what are exactly the counter plays of invulnerability for example?

Yet, again people accept very well guardians immunities regen and condi cleasing just because you can see them (but not touch :P).

And just to make it clear im not talking about a thief going to an Uncontested point and Capture it while in stealth that would be ridiculous.
Im just talking about being able to keep itcontested (staying neutral, not capping for one team nor the other) until one of them leaves/dies.

Trust me its a change you do not want. Always having revealed would murder thieves in the long run. If you think about it people who run deceptions (which most thieves do) have a second to 2 between using them. But having 7 – 8 seconds everytime your CD didn’t overlap. Thieves would be stunned and killed instantly.

And the reason people are okay with guards invun is because its a 90 sec CD for 3 secs of survival. Then a 60% heal. And if it takes 3 people 90 secs to burn down a 60% hp guard. Then there isn’t enough dmg there.

Most classes have their own way of bunkering. Look at engis who boon like crazy, control space with turrets and knockbacks. Or mesmers who actually confuse, and use decoys, rangers who are perma dodging with spirits, or even necros who bunker with minions and staff.

Thieves as a class just doesn’t bunker well. They give that up for the ability to go invis (which in all actuality is the ability to control the pace of a fight). Just like guardians give up the ability to disengage from a fight or sneak up on people for the ability to last 2 – 3 times as long (at the cost of dmg) against more enemies.

TL:DR – Class strengths and weaknesses blah blah blah. Guards can’t stealth, and thieves can’t facetank on points. Stealth is a really strong mechanic and is balanced for a good reason