Guild Wars 2

Below I will list the problems that I see with specific classes – don’t pay too much attention to the numbers, they are pure speculation but rather, to the core idea of the suggested change. In my view, right now, the biggest problems are Ranger, Necromancer, Warrior and Thief (s/d). I main ranger and engineer so I will start with suggested ranger changes.

Ranger
Every single one of the ranger’s monthly flavours since I started playing (around March) have revolved around being tanky and outlasting – with the exception of traps which had nicef damage as well. There are several factors as to why other builds didn’t work until now. To begin with, pets do more than necessary damage without any traits (and thus deprive rangers of decent attack scaling)- I believe pet base damage needs to be severely reduced and increase their damage drastically from traits.
*Spirits: Too much AI reliance. You build tanky, summon the spirits and basically just dodge around until burning, pet damage and your protection outlasts the enemy. Spirit rangers’ strongest suit is team fights which they absolutely rock but they are also very strong duelists. I am afraid that, besides dropping the % proc chance I can’t think of a solution to the spirits issue per se. I really don’t like relying on AI so heavily in pvp but sadly, it is what it is.
Idea: Pets right now hit for average of 450-550 on a medium target w/o traits; they could hit for ~100-200 without any traits, and simply have BM traits giving 9-10% damage per point spent along with stats increase. This way, ranger’s scaling could be be similar to other classes’ (maybe even less pet base damage and just have traits scale better for more points spent). Right now even if you build full power (zerker and the likes) you end up doing very little damage while being super squishy (thus, restricting rangers to rabid/shaman amulet builds (and possibly carrion)). I believe this way, non-bm traited rangers will have pets just being utility class skills and this might open the path for new builds to emerge, possibly non-lame builds.

Warriors
Their damage has always been fine but had other issues. However, with their most recent additions they are over the top imo. Very good stun-lock from mace shield and stupidly high damage when stunned. In my view the critical strike % when stunned needs to change to additional damage %. Critical strikes almost bypass armor’s damage reduction so despite having 2800 armor you end up being hit for 8-12k bursts when stunned in 1v1s. If you are going to give a class so much burst, you cannot also give condition immunity and the signet’s sustain. It cannot be like this otherwise might as well run 2-4 warriors (jk, people already done).
-Overall, I find it of utter importance that the critical strike % when stunned needs to change to damage increase when stunned. One of the two following also: tone down a tad signet passive or tune the condi immunity. I think that their kit right now has got much more than it needs to be competitive.

Thief (s/d)
I’ve wanted to make this post for a while and ended up forgetting all about it until I watched: http://www.twitch.tv/helsethgw2/c/2831244 . In this video Helseth talks about the current meta and I found myself agreeable to a great extent with his opinions and justifications. Basically s/d right now does too much of everything. It has high burst, very high sustainable damage And is very difficult to kill. S/d needs to have its damage and/or survivability toned down because at the moment it is simply too strong. S/d thieves need to choose between dealing damage or surviving in fights and spending their initiative accordingly, not get to do everything with the same rotations.

Necromancer
Besides the fact that I haven’t played enough necro to come up with a more extensive suggestion, I believe there should be some type of passive change to fear bursts. For instance, in WoW there was the mechanic of Diminishing Returns (DR basically made consecutive crowd controls of the same type stun/fear/etc- the effect getting diminished for each application – 50%/75% then immune).
Now, I was thinking of something along these lines: Right now necro, does a little bit too much of everything. Decent necros running the terror build will kill you in a fear chain if you don’t have a stun break and overall their damage output is too much considering the “effort” they have to put for it. I was thinking of a change like: for each consecutive fear from the necro, his damage output is reduced by 20/40/60% for the duration of the fear. This way, his damage goes back to normal after the fear ends and you will not be stuck in an unstoppable fear chain once your stunbreak is on cooldown while taking silly condition damage. The % values are just for show, I haven’t put very much thought into them, but that’s the core idea.

Totally agree with everything you said.
Especially about the ranger changes.

Boot.7368:

Necromancer
Besides the fact that I haven’t played enough necro to come up with a more extensive suggestion, I believe there should be some type of passive change to fear bursts. For instance, in WoW there was the mechanic of Diminishing Returns (DR basically made consecutive crowd controls of the same type stun/fear/etc- the effect getting diminished for each application – 50%/75% then immune).
Now, I was thinking of something along these lines: Right now necro, does a little bit too much of everything. Decent necros running the terror build will kill you in a fear chain if you don’t have a stun break and overall their damage output is too much considering the “effort” they have to put for it. I was thinking of a change like: for each consecutive fear from the necro, his damage output is reduced by 20/40/60% for the duration of the fear. This way, his damage goes back to normal after the fear ends and you will not be stuck in an unstoppable fear chain once your stunbreak is on cooldown while taking silly condition damage. The % values are just for show, I haven’t put very much thought into them, but that’s the core idea.

I think it would be simpler to add a short internal cooldown to Terror, although I still believe Dhuumfire is what’s screwing everything up.

Boot.7368:

Thief (s/d)
I’ve wanted to make this post for a while and ended up forgetting all about it until I watched: http://www.twitch.tv/helsethgw2/c/2831244 . In this video Helseth talks about the current meta and I found myself agreeable to a great extent with his opinions and justifications. Basically s/d right now does too much of everything. It has high burst, very high sustainable damage And is very difficult to kill. S/d needs to have its damage and/or survivability toned down because at the moment it is simply too strong. S/d thieves need to choose between dealing damage or surviving in fights and spending their initiative accordingly, not get to do everything with the same rotations.

I disagree with “High Burst”, it just isn’t there. LS and CS are the only skills with high damage. One is at the end of an AA chain, and the other can only be used for 5 seconds after an FS. That’s not burst at all.

S/D does not have high burst at all. FS/LS does about the same damage as auto attack.

I’m affraid to say this but your analysis come from a very narrow point of view.

First of all, signet ranger can do an awfully lot of damage. Tuning up their basic damage would be totally gamebreaking. A zerker signet ranger can actually do more then 8k damage on his first strike (and I’m talking about the auto attack here). Tune this a little bit up and ranger would be able to 1 hit KO gardian, Ele and Thieves. If you change how pet are right now to add damage on the ranger, you would have to change signet.

Warriors have had the stunning way possibility since age. But no one wanted to use it. Now it’s the meta. Your idea to tune down a trait seem good for me.

Necromancer… Just get rid of this Dhummfire kitten already please. It’s just this thing that destroy balance for necromancer. We all know that already. Well we’ve known it even before.

S/D thieves : I don’t play thief a lot and when I play I’m more D/D but sword on thief ain’t a burst weapon. It’s more a medium and tedious hitting weapon with high escape possibility. I’ don’t think tuning down this spec would be good.

S/D thief has high burst?? Can I play what game you’re playing?

well double s/d is evasive and ya high dmg but not too bursty. sacrificing your range weapon (shortbow) just for this s/d main and s/d 2nd set is not OP. and Larcenous strike’s 0.5sec casting time is hard to land just like Cloak and dagger,

pls do review this video … tell me if S/D is bursty!? and look at this warrior’s easy win and his gameplay isn’t that hard unlike the way im doing… i tried my best in this fight maximizing thief’s capability.

and s/d has high survivability? most s/d thieves using zerker trinkets… in this case we only have 1,980 armor and 17k hp… and good/pro players can timing and hit S/D evasive thief, how? while they’re casting this Larcenous strike (after FS ) this is their vulnerable state. and they can easily dodge larcenous strike, so we must use it repeatedly in other way or faking, so when a bad or average player who have no idea about this Flanking/Larcenous strike and if they LET s/d thieves dance around em.. they prolly dead!

Surely damage across the board at the moment is just a bit too much.
everything together in this meta is just build around blowing stuff up.
The whole ranger spirit build is just annoying at some point, especially when theres a necromancer present to circle it off with some amazing aoe to stop you from landing aoes on top of the spirits. If you dont watch out that S/D Ele will just macro right on top of you with enough damage to blow you up.
Not to mention the only solid build for thieves being S/D, I understand the game should be compelled to a level that everyone can play it simple as, but i personally wouln’t call this burst the way it should be.

It should be fun in a way aswel not encourage to roll the Faceroll build of the week.

I would’ve suggested some sort of damage reduction but then you got the whole problem guardians and rangers would become unkillable to an extend.

Feels like there’s alot to be balanced at the moment,
Maybe it’s just me but i do have a problem with the damage when i try something a little bit seperated from meta.

I highly doubt we’re being ignored but to balance pvp there would definitly be alot of points to change.
Which, I highly doubt will happen this year

Thieves never seem to recognise high damage even when they’re doing it. 2k>1k>2k>1k over and over on a 3.3-3.4k armour character. What’s that vs glass, 5k+ in 2 keypresses? No bursties. Also only took him 4 minutes to die, so s/d has no defense either. I chuckled.

Coloxeus.3480:

pls do review this video … tell me if S/D is bursty!? and look at this warrior’s easy win and his gameplay isn’t that hard unlike the way im doing… i tried my best in this fight maximizing thief’s capability.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q58u1ygJU3Q

That vídeo again?
Maximizing thief’ capability? where is the poison that is a must against that kind of builds?

Coloxeus.3480:

and s/d has high survivability? most s/d thieves using zerker trinkets… in this case we only have 1,980 armor and 17k hp… and good/pro players can timing and hit S/D evasive thief, how? while they’re casting this Larcenous strike (after FS ) this is their vulnerable state. and they can easily dodge larcenous strike, so we must use it repeatedly in other way or faking, so when a bad or average player who have no idea about this Flanking/Larcenous strike and if they LET s/d thieves dance around em.. they prolly dead!

If they are using zerker trinkets they should have no surviability, only high damage. In the vídeo you have more health than the warrior almost of the time and he is build to bunker.You were also a bunker in that vídeo?

healing signet is overtuned, needs to be brought down a notch.

s/d thief is not OP at all. the only thing that is probably a bit OP is signet of agility. plus every other thief weapon set other than d/p is horrible. Even d/p is not nearly as good as some of the other builds that other classes have

silentnight warrior.2714:

Coloxeus.3480:

and s/d has high survivability? most s/d thieves using zerker trinkets… in this case we only have 1,980 armor and 17k hp… and good/pro players can timing and hit S/D evasive thief, how? while they’re casting this Larcenous strike (after FS ) this is their vulnerable state. and they can easily dodge larcenous strike, so we must use it repeatedly in other way or faking, so when a bad or average player who have no idea about this Flanking/Larcenous strike and if they LET s/d thieves dance around em.. they prolly dead!

If they are using zerker trinkets they should have no surviability, only high damage. In the vídeo you have more health than the warrior almost of the time and he is build to bunker.You were also a bunker in that vídeo?

in this video im just using zerker trinket zerker gem… 1,980 armor 17k hp…. poison? i asked him last week about that fight he can remove condition easily so poison is not a problem with him… just watch the rematch held in private server room.

Coloxeus.3480:

pls do review this video … tell me if S/D is bursty!? and look at this warrior’s easy win and his gameplay isn’t that hard unlike the way im doing… i tried my best in this fight maximizing thief’s capability.

There is something about the balance here that’s lost in 1v1. Consider this:

You and the warrior both live quite a while in that fight. His survivability is regen and raw tankiness while standing in the open. Yours is high evasion, stealth, moderate recovery, and lots of immunity frames.

In a team situation, that warrior isn’t gonna go anywhere. He’s gonna sit there, and the damage of 2-3 players will make his regen irrelevant, and he’ll die. You, however, might survive by pure benefit of mobility and evasiveness. You’re not tanking one source of damage, but escaping all sources of damage.

I’m not saying sigil of healing isn’t too high right now, or that thieves and warriors are equally balanced. However, I don’t think whether or not you can 1v1 a regen tank warrior is indicative of changes these professions may or may not need.

Jackalrat.5493:

Coloxeus.3480:

pls do review this video … tell me if S/D is bursty!? and look at this warrior’s easy win and his gameplay isn’t that hard unlike the way im doing… i tried my best in this fight maximizing thief’s capability.

There is something about the balance here that’s lost in 1v1. Consider this:

You and the warrior both live quite a while in that fight. His survivability is regen and raw tankiness while standing in the open. Yours is high evasion, stealth, moderate recovery, and lots of immunity frames.

In a team situation, that warrior isn’t gonna go anywhere. He’s gonna sit there, and the damage of 2-3 players will make his regen irrelevant, and he’ll die. You, however, might survive by pure benefit of mobility and evasiveness. You’re not tanking one source of damage, but escaping all sources of damage.

I’m not saying sigil of healing isn’t too high right now, or that thieves and warriors are equally balanced. However, I don’t think whether or not you can 1v1 a regen tank warrior is indicative of changes these professions may or may not need.

Well you’re prolly right. U have a point but i don’t use stealth in double s/ d build unless for finishing and escaping.

Boot.7368:

Thief (s/d)
I’ve wanted to make this post for a while and ended up forgetting all about it until I watched: http://www.twitch.tv/helsethgw2/c/2831244 . In this video Helseth talks about the current meta and I found myself agreeable to a great extent with his opinions and justifications. Basically s/d right now does too much of everything. It has high burst, very high sustainable damage And is very difficult to kill. S/d needs to have its damage and/or survivability toned down because at the moment it is simply too strong. S/d thieves need to choose between dealing damage or surviving in fights and spending their initiative accordingly, not get to do everything with the same rotations.

I agree with everything you said about thieves currently accept S/D having high burst. S/D does not have “high” burst. Burst damage is doing a lot of damage in seconds enough damage to make a player scared enough to use defensive utils. S/D damage is nowhere near the amount of burst damage of D/P.

But what I do agree with, is that the traits most S/D builds allow for is spam. Most of these are minors.
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Fluid_Strikes

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Feline_Grace

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Expeditious_Dodger

All these allow for so much dodge spam, and you are rewarded for it to much. Also most S/D builds having close to infinite initiative, with just weapon swaps, and two passives. This and boon stripping is what makes S/D over the top.

Helseth virtually states “there is no skill in interrupting”. Sure anyone can interrupt an auto attack, but not many can anticipate when their target will use a heal skill, utility, weapon set skill (2-5) or elite. You can even go further by stating how you need to know when to rupt or what to rupt at that period of time. That’s what turns what he calls “no skill” into “clutch play” for whoever can pull it off perfectly.

Apologies for late replies, completely lost track of the post. I wanted to start replying to every single post but it seems a lot of people got hung up on the words “high burst” in relation to s/d. High burst doesn’t only come in the form of an 8-9k burst, especially considering what s/d brings to the table.

I stand corrected however, s/d’s burst isn’t high per se (compared to warriors, double penetration thieves (hihi) and eles) but it is much higher than it should be.

Shalla.3967:

I think it would be simpler to add a short internal cooldown to Terror, although I still believe Dhuumfire is what’s screwing everything up.

That is indeed a simpler solution. As I wrote I am not in any way experienced on necro so that was an attempt at a solution purely from other classes’ PoV. Maybe that’ll do the trick

@Dadnir.5038
I am afraid that what ranger CAN do on a dummy target with zerker gear and what will happen in a tournament match are very, very far apart. Sure, it is cute damage on a dummy, and I am writing cute because it isn’t even close to other classes’ zerker damage. That is a a fact btw, ranger’s scaling IS low because of the pet, not a a matter of opinion :p It is the sole reason why power builds are out of the question for rangers. Not good enough scaling.

@Mammoth.1975
What Mammoth wrote.

What about Engineers? They are so op and need to be stopped.

Thieves will always be broken if Anet just tweaks numbers.
They have to do something fancy to get a working class, like, make every attack on the thief work like flanking strike.
That’d mean that all the theif weapon attacks would initially cost no initiative, then, when you use it, it goes to a secondary attack (like larcenist strike) for some time (7-20s depending on the ability) that attack costs 4~ initiative… it’d be a psuedo CD system.
You can shorten/avoid CDs by burning initiative.

To balance it out they’d have to cut down ini regen on a number of traits, so if you want to spam abilities you have to really sacrifice large part of your spec.
Then the class would be be in a great spot.

If they ten fixed the phys stat scaling so it isn’t a burst dps’s game… I think GW2 would be playable again.

Making % damage skills in PvP would be a lot better than adjusting base values IMO.

There are too many variables when you play around with base damage that can make the buffs stupidly good or make the skill entirely useless. % damage hurts, it’s reliable, and it can be tweaked very easily without getting into a mess