Guild Wars 2

Evan Lesh.3295:

Things to consider:

• Sharing (chat links? codes? urls?)
• Viewing (seeing some else’s vs. seeing your own)
• Saving (notepad vs. local vs. account vs. web)
• Building (one spot in UI vs. multiple spots)

My first suggestion, is to avoid copy and paste if at all possible.

Builds should save to a server primarily, and accounts would keep references to those templates (copy-on-write!). Also, if you offer a text code view, don’t clog the in-game UI with text to copy or paste, and instead offer code download and upload from the web view.

For sharing, I think chat links and url, both pointing to the above server is acceptable.

A few musts for viewing: a link to the web representation from the in-game view; a chat link in the web view; an option to save the build to the account in the in-game view (if this can be done from web, try to do that too).

With the above, building in multiple spots can absolutely be done. In-game and save, or on the web server and save (and move in-game later with the offered chat link).

There is something I’ve been mulling over for a while. The game can register a custom URL scheme that it handles, and links can be crafted to replace all the chat link codes floating around. If you click one of these links, the game can react just as if you’d clicked a link in chat. These could literally be the chat code prefixed with the custom URL scheme (for example, if the scheme was “gw2”, then Eternity [&AgHhdwAA] could have “gw2://&AgHhdwAA” or “gw2://items/Eternity”). Then getting a template (or waypoint, poi, item, etc.) from the web is a link instead of a chat link to paste into chat, without all sorts of weird workarounds to avoid spamming other players.

So, I may have a kind of a solution to the PvE/WvW gear template problem:

In addition to the skin wardrobe, perhaps create a gear stats wardrobe. That is, a place where stat sets are stored when you soulbind/salvage particular pieces of gear. It could be a soulbound (per-character) gear stats wardrobe to reduce impacts on the gear economy, but I’d prefer it to be account-wide unlocks.

Sigils and runes could even be included in this stats wardrobe. Maybe allow up to two of each sigil to be loaded into it – if you only have one sigil in your stats wardrobe, you’re only able to use that sigil on one of the weapons in the template – but if you have two you’re able to load it onto two of the weapons in the template. A similar idea with runes, in that you’d have to load six runes into your wardrobe to be able to use the entire rune set’s bonus in a template.

PvP – Traits, Sigils, Runes, Amulet
PvE – Traits

Evan Lesh.3295:

locoman.1974:

Add a small indicator for gear that is used in a template (much like the rarity border).

Would be very helpful if templates used actual gear.

Darnis.4056:

I guess the problem really is how do you make an all encompassing system for PVP and PVE?

The answer is you can’t there will have to be two systems as long as you want an economy in this game.

Skill and trait templates could absolutely be shared. They would just be two compatible components in the larger template system with other non-compatible parts.

The problem is making the feature approachable and easy to use when there could be SO many potential parts.

But you do see what your problem is here don’t you?
The problem is the rigid armor/weapon mechanics in PvE/WvW that is making this template idea untenable outside of PvP.

Sigils, Runes and Armor/Weapon stats are what is ruining it for you. This is why I loved Guild Wars, no silly stats or equipment problems when it came to experimenting with builds, you just had skills and attributes, it was direct and to the point.

If you ever want a template system to work between PvP and PvE/WvW, I think your going to have to simplify your Rune/Sigils/stat system to make it more accessible, and less of a barrier to entry.

-
I have two suggestions.

1) Runes and Sigils are turned into account bound collectibles. Once you use/bound a Rune or Sigil, it goes into a library of equipment upgrades that you can then freely swap in or out on any of your equipment via a drop down tab located in the equipment page. (naturally you can’t do this during combat)

2) Create a equipment locker that is separate from your inventory. One of the single biggest drawbacks to experimentation is the high cost of having to buy all new equipment with every new stat combination you might want to use. But a even if you did have the money or resources to get all that said equipment, you just can’t get enough inventory space to put it all.
You might have enough room for 3-4 sets and that’s the lot.

So by having a separate equipment locker, which could be an extension of the Wardrobe, would largely rectify the 2nd problem. The locker would have a set number of slots, of which more can be purchased, and each slot consists of 6 armor slots and their respective runes, two weapon set slots, and their sigils, and the 6 accessories slots and underwater slots.
You can then slot in your spare equipment sets from your inventory into these locker slots, storing it away to not only save space, but organize them.

Each locker slot has a button that when used can swap out your current set for what is in that locker slot, and filling up the locker slot with what you were just using. Double clicking/right clicking will give you the option to swap out that individual piece.

This wouldn’t address the cost problem, but between changing the runes and the Wardrobe, you wouldn’t have any problems having multiple equipment sets so long as you can organize them and they didn’t clutter your inventory.

-

But between these to solutions, you should be able to have a functional template system so long as it is reasonable to expect that a player can acquire and store/swap out each of the individual parts you would expect to find in a build.
If it just didn’t cost so bloody much to replace equipment, then it wouldn’t be such a pain in the backside to experiment.

Instead of being bundled into a template system, Id like to see the next iteration of the wardrobe have custom outfits to divest skins completely from the stats of the gear. To make a custom outfit you get 6 slots for armor (+1 back piece), and x slots for weapons (however many your class has access to, one slot for each weapon). Filling a slot costs one transmutation, and once you have your outfit complete you can flip it on anytime you want and the outfit will override the look of any of your gear where you have a slot transmuted.

For pve: I think you’re overestimating what needs to be in a template. All you need are traits. Everything else is gravy. I’d probably be annoyed if they contained other data. I change utility skills often enough that It would be pretty pointless to include them in any build, but utility skills should be serializable too.

Sharing builds now is: I ping my weapons and one piece of armor, then I go through and type out all my traits. It would be super convenient to be able to just ping the traits.

Arkimedes.8730:

For pve: I think you’re overestimating what needs to be in a template. All you need are traits. Everything else is gravy. I’d probably be annoyed if they contained other data. I change utility skills often enough that It would be pretty pointless to include them in any build, but utility skills should be serializable too.

Sharing builds now is: I ping my weapons and one piece of armor, then I go through and type out all my traits. It would be super convenient to be able to just ping the traits.

Well, I don’t fully agree, but start with traits, and work on everything else afterwards.

Saving traits and skills in all game formats and being able to ping them are essential to me.

For PvP sigils/runes would also be tied to the build, maybe not for PvE if it was too complicated but being able to switch whenever is hugely convenient and being able to share builds helps the community to share ideas and especially to help new players.

Dye/API/look, etc. would all be bonuses.
I’d rather see wardrobe templates to save looks rather than have it be tied to a build personally.

Goal of this reply is to offer fast and easy solution for what is changed often and meanwhile complex and full option for those who want to save and share more than just a build:

What about dividing all this in:

1. Simple template. This will contain only traits + utility skills. Will be saved in simple string and shown as “Name Template”. Nice place would be another tab under dyes in H panel i.e. Tab “Simple Templates” under dyes.

There will be option to save current traits and skills in template.
Template will save both currently equipped weapon skills, but they will be only shown in preview, not loaded. i.e. doesn’t change gear.
There will be option for one click load from template.
There will be option for one click share for in-game chat.
Option for share with current gear set (see below).
One could see linked in-game Simple Template in window similar to sPvP build window. One will be able to save it.
There will be folder for string simple templates in GW2 folder. All correct string files will be shown in H “Simple Templates” tab for current character.
Templates for different from current class will be viewable in H window but not loadable.

2. Gear sets.
There will be 3 or 4 Gear set tabs. They will be exactly the same like now is Equipment tab in H. Additionally there will be “Equipment gear set 1”, “Equipment gear set 2” etc.
If we are using “Equipment gear set 1”, then by clicking H -> “Equipment gear set 2” we will see Gear set 2 and there will be one click button to equip it.

There will be option to share it in-game and save it like string file.
Once shared it will be viewable But Not loadable for other players.
There will be option to edit one of the current character Gear set according to shared gear. It will open H-> “Equipment gear set …” where all Equipment slots will be double. One reviewed from chat/link other will be current gear slot where player manually will be able to choose from his available gear.

I think this way players can easily choose from what they have even if they don’t own exactly the same Items. Meanwhile its rather simple.
Once created Gear sets will be easy to edit via their tab in Equipment or though edit option from sharing.
(btw One should be able to use same Amulet for example in all 4 gear sets)
For me 3-4 gear sets it enough for general PvE and WvW. Gear Sets should be different in sPvP.

3. “Observation Preview”.
This will be full “template”. Another separate window will open and players will be able to choose what to input in template. From: Skills; Traits; Gear Sets; Dyes; Costumes even race and body features.
Once selected the options will be viewable and all different components will be applicable one by one or by type.
For example we select Gear from someone else Observation Template. There we have option to apply gear skins to our armor. We see preview and if we have those skins unlocked we can use them right on.
Same with dyes.
This will be most complex tool for sharing and saving but most slow and difficult as well.

i’m sure someone must have brought it up already, but i just remembered that GW1 had templates split into “skills” and “gear”. basically gear templates were exclusive to PvP characters, since PvE characters would have to buy the insignias/runes/etc and apply them to their gear.

maybe consider something like that for GW2? have a “skill template” (which is what everyone wants, really), and later down the line (if needed at all), an entirely separate system for handling gear templates. have the skill template have all the “musts” from that compiled list, but only apply traits and utilities on PvE (and weapons, if available on the inventory)

Evan Lesh.3295:

You are all recognizing the problem with PvP templates versus PvE templates:

PvP builds can be constructed regardless of what items you own. The templates can even save weapon type and give you a free level 1 item if you don’t have a weapon in your inventory already because PvP has normalized attributes.

PvE/WvW builds must include actual items. This mean sharing non-PvP builds becomes very complicated. Either you simply can’t do it, or templates save out exact items for reapplication AND save out item type/level/rarity/prefix/suffix/etc for sharing.

Another aspect you guys are hitting on is the need for template ‘chunks’. This means templates are not an all-or-nothing application, but can be pieced together from various parts. For instance, you could have an ‘appearance’ template that consists only of wardrobe skins, dyes, and a finisher that you can apply and save separately from a ‘functional’ template that may contain skills, traits, and amulet.

This is quite an intricate detail, but you may even want to leave individual skill/trait slot empty in a template you’re sharing like a wildcard.

I would definitely like to see a cosmetic system that is divorced from the stat system.

I would like to see build templates have a drop down that says, “Use Wardrobe Slot #4”. You could then have 5 or so free cosmetic builds with more slots that you could unlock with gems. That way, not matter what you are doing, you could swap to your primeval outfit. Or you could copy the guy that looks like Altair or Reddit, at the click of a button. Honestly, wardrobe builds excite me more than skill templates.

I’d like to see templates set out exactly how the Hero panel is now except with an arrow on either side and a nameplate at the top so you can name each build. The arrows would allow a player to scroll through his/her builds.

A key feature would be for the template to double as storage of the trinkets and armour so they don’t take up inventory space.

In the previous game I played they made a similar feature but put all the information online for any player to search through. I wouldn’t want people to be able to find my builds that I spent time to make work for me and them just be able to copy it.

Great to hear you’re considering this, Evan!

I think you’d need two separate templates, one for skills/traits (this one can be copied and saved via chat) and one for equipment (in PvP). Sometimes I want to swap builds quickly in dungeons/Fractals/WvW, but I don’t really need to swap equipment at the same time.

Evan Lesh.3295:

Things that must be in a template:

• Weapons
• Sigils
• Rune
• Amulet
• Skills
• Traits

Please seperate Traits from Armor, Weapons and all that stuff.
For example if I wan’t to share just a build then I should be able to do this. Or in other words if I recive a build but don’t wan’t to change my armor, weapons and stuff then I should be able to do this as well.
Also sharing builds including armor, weapons aso. would be a mess in PvE since one may not have the armor or something required by the build.

Evan Lesh.3295:

What could be in a template:

• Skins
• Dyes
• Outfit
• Finisher

Same as above. Things like this has to be some kind of optional.

Evan Lesh.3295:

Things to consider:

• Sharing (chat links? codes? urls?)

I don’t know if there is a good reason for urls. May cause problems with fake-urls.
Chat links oder some other kind of code seems to be the best solution.

Evan Lesh.3295:

• Saving (notepad vs. local vs. account vs. web)

What’s meant by “notepad”? To me a lokal file like it was in GW1 was perfect. It was easy to backup and sharing with third-party-programms to work on builds offline. Account-based may be usefull if there is an export-function as fallback to a lokal-file.
I wouldn’t prefer web based templates.

Evan Lesh.3295:

• Building (one spot in UI vs. multiple spots)

1 spot in the hero-panel.

Evan Lesh.3295:

• Websites (third-party sites should work with in-game)

What’s meant by this?

Evan Lesh.3295:

• APIs (Could expose an API to third-parties)

Sounds good if it works. Every change on something included in a build template during updates coul’d be shared this way to third-parties.

Evan Lesh.3295:

• PvP vs PvE vs WvW (each mode requires different configuration options)

Right. That’s a huge problem in GW2 where manny things don’t seem to work coherently.

I haven’t read the previous comments so sorry if this has been suggested already, but how about a slot system? Where you could page through different builds and with each build page there was a slot system where you could store your weapons, sigils, runes, etc. For Skills and Traits you could save them as templates (Ala LoL) and select the specific build from a drop down table? I think this could easily be incorporated to PvP as well. The only problems I see with it is: 1. The complexity and possible overwhelming layout for newcomers (But please don’t hold back on options simply because you’re scared casuals won’t understand it) and 2. It could act as a storage system, which may or may not work out well as a game mechanic…

Already mentioned and yes this is very important, I would really like to see it implemented now even before the build system comes online because the lack of it is already annoying and would only be more so with a build system…

Saviourslave.6715:

I haven’t read the previous comments so sorry if this has been suggested already, but how about a slot system? Where you could page through different builds and with each build page there was a slot system where you could store your weapons, sigils, runes, etc. For Skills and Traits you could save them as templates (Ala LoL) and select the specific build from a drop down table? I think this could easily be incorporated to PvP as well. The only problems I see with it is: 1. The complexity and possible overwhelming layout for newcomers (But please don’t hold back on options simply because you’re scared casuals won’t understand it) and 2. It could act as a storage system, which may or may not work out well as a game mechanic…

Evan Lesh.3295:

How would you like to see any/all of these work?

I’d like to see it work in WvW and not just sPvP.

No need to over complicate it, just leverage what http://gw2skills.net has done.

Hey guys first of all ty for recognizing the need for templates.

My idea is….
A Template for Builds which would include: separate systems for each type of play style, an overall trait template and final cosmetic template.

Example
Overall for PvE, sPvP, WvW
Trait Template

PvE
Weapon
Armor
Trinkets
Amulets
Skills

sPvP
Weapon
Armor
Amulet
Skill
Rune
Sigil

WvW
Same as PvE

Cosmetic
Apperance on all 6 pieces of gear and weapons

Evan Lesh.3295:

You are all recognizing the problem with PvP templates versus PvE templates:

PvP builds can be constructed regardless of what items you own. The templates can even save weapon type and give you a free level 1 item if you don’t have a weapon in your inventory already because PvP has normalized attributes.

PvE/WvW builds must include actual items. This mean sharing non-PvP builds becomes very complicated.

GW1 had 2 templates, PvE characters could only access 1.

GW1 PvE character:
- Had access to “build saving/loading” (secondary class + attributes + 8 skills)
- Did not have access to “gear saving/loading”

GW1 PvP character:
- Had access to “build saving/loading”
- Had access to “gear saving/loading” (Armour + Weapon + Upgrade components + Dye)

But there is one major difference in GW2 now:
- PvPers need to have a game wide character, and actual weapons/armour, it cannot be called out of thin air anymore.

Which means we don’t need gear saving AT ALL.

So leave weapons/armour and the skins out, as they are not necessary, or even possible to put into a template without breaking the game (Create item out of no where, bypass transmutation system etc).

And just do:

Template 1 (Only available inside of Heart of the Mists)
- Traits
- Amulet
- Sigil
- Rune
- Utility skills/elite skill

Template 2 (Only available outside of Heart of the Mists)
- Traits
- Utility skills/elite skill

And provide access to #1 or #2 depending on where the character is.

Weapons/armour/dye cannot be, and do not need to be, in templates. Finisher does not need to be included either, it isn’t important, and its also only one click away at zero effort, if someone does happen to change it once in forever.

Keep it basic, and to the essentials, there is no need to overthink it.

Evan Lesh.3295:

We absolutely want to make build templates.

This should NOT be an SPvP only thing. Why should PVE players have to suffer so much constantly switching gear and traits when running a variety of content?

What I envision is simple and user-friendly: I press a hotkey, and a small window opens up in the corner of my screen. There are two rows of square icons, one for gear and one for traits. The icons present in these rows represent selections that have previously been saved by me.

I can equip a set of gear, hit ‘save outfit’, and a menu will appear showing every equip slot, with a check box next to each one to indicate which pieces I want to save in the outfit. So for example I can save just my 6-piece armor sets to have a ‘soldiers’ set and a ‘berserker’ set. These sets will then be saved as icons in the build list, and clicking it will equip just those six pieces, leaving my other slots (amulet, weapons, etc) untouched. Or, I could create sets for just my two weapons, so I can switch between them slightly easier (I carry 4 axes with different sigils for example, right now it’s a mild hassle leaving my inventory window open and right-clicking “equip as off-hand” all the time). The icon representing the set could be chosen from a list, or automatically determined by the gear (maybe the last item I ‘check’ is used as the icon representing the set, etc)

The second row in the templates menu could be used for traits, in a hopefully self-evident way. I simply select my traits and hit ‘save build’. Perhaps an window comes up with a list of icons for me to choose from, so I could pick a picture of one of the longbow skills to represent my WvW longbow trait build, or a banner to represent my dungeon banners build, etc.

I hereby grant full authorization for the Arenanet/Guild Wars 2 development team to use the ideas contained within this forum post in any way they see fit without need for compensation or acknowledgement.

Evan Lesh.3295:

We absolutely want to make build templates. They could work similar to GW1, but there are more components to a build now. Using the old string-code method may prove to be unwieldy.

Things that must be in a template:

• Weapons
• Sigils
• Rune
• Amulet
• Skills
• Traits

What could be in a template:

• Skins
• Dyes
• Outfit
• Finisher

Things to consider:

• Sharing (chat links? codes? urls?)
• Viewing (seeing some else’s vs. seeing your own)
• Saving (notepad vs. local vs. account vs. web)
• Building (one spot in UI vs. multiple spots)
• Websites (third-party sites should work with in-game)
• APIs (Could expose an API to third-parties)
• PvP vs PvE vs WvW (each mode requires different configuration options)

How would you like to see any/all of these work?

I ask you to look back at GW1 and also to The Secret World(TSW) for how to manage builds/decks. Give us the option to save our current “builds” – by that I’m referring to traits and skills on hotbar. There could also be an option to save a template with your equipped gear (armor, weapons, trinkets – for pvp only your chosen amulets/runes/sigils) – but that complicates things with sharing and interaction. Most important is sharing the builds wrt. traits and skills. Builds are typically done that way and then people just say they’re running zerker/soldier/etc. but you won’t have the same gear as them, so how a template system then react to a build string from a Norn zerker guardian in cultural gear imported into a Sylvari knight guardian? (ofc in PvP you can also save amulet and runes – whereas again sigils will depend on equipped weapons)
Keep it simple – let the templates focus on traits and skills.

Let this come with a “build management” dialogue which allows you to keep up ~10 different saved builds – and these are character-specific so the 10 builds you have on your guardian are separate from the 10 you’ve stored for your warrior or the likes.
From this build management, you can easily copy to clipboard (for sharing outside of game on build websites, links, etc.) as well as ctrl-click to put a link in chat so that others can import into their own build management.

Again, for interaction between in-game and external websites and/or 3rd party products;

Check how you made it work with GW1 and http://gwpvx.gamepedia.com/PvX_wiki
or for another example/inspiration, the Viper Deck Manager that a 3rd party(player) made for The Secret World (http://www.curse.com/tsw-mods/tsw/deck-manager). Now, you don’t have in-game plugins/addons, but if a 3rd party application can be made to use your API and exchange builds with GW2’s build management tool by copying a “build string”, that’d be great.

As for other things that could be in template; don’t. Keep it simple to begin with.

My worn armor+weapons already has skins and dyes, keep those to the current ones. I don’t want to get into the situation that I load a build only to find I have to apply 5 transmutation charges because of the gear I had equipped. Instant fail. Just put those pieces of gear back on regardless of their current skin, and if the gear is no longer in my possession because I destroyed/salvaged it, leave it empty.

If I try to import a build and it uses a trait or skill I don’t currently own (either because I’m low-level and haven’t unlocked it yet or it’s a new one I’ve not yet achieved), leave the trait/skill slot empty. If you want to impress pop a window and alert me to any items in the build template I tried to import that was missing.

Finally – so nice to see Anet dev/red post acknowledging the need for this

Here’s an idea that is pure convenience so it has potential to generate revenue for anet without sounding like a money grab:

» Have the ability to save builds in the hero UI (unlimited as long as you have all the equipment in your inventory)
» With a gem store account upgrade you get a new tab in your bank where all your weapons, armour, trinkets are stored so you won’t have to keep them in your inventory.

Two template saving tabs within the same UI; one for aesthetics and one for stats/traits.

The stats/traits are a priority for development IMO though, as personally the need to change my appearance quickly is nothing like a frequent as the need to change traits/sigils/runes.

Two Tabs , PVP can change everything with 1 click , Pve Can only change Traits fixed

Template 1 (Only available inside of Heart of the Mists)
– Traits
– Amulet
– Sigil
– Rune
– Utility skills/elite skill

Template 2 (Only available outside of Heart of the Mists)
– Traits
– Utility skills/elite skill

And provide access to #1 or #2 depending on where the character is.

Weapons, armour and dyes, are not necessary, and probably not even possible for more than one reason. Templates for finishers are pointless.

Keep it basic and just get it done. If you want to improve it later, then do so, but get a working version out asap.

 Start with two basic templates. These should be two independent templates.
1) Skills and traits template.
2) Wardrobe and dye templates.

Common Template features.

• A preview features.
• File name.
• Note section. Where user can put in notes about the template.
• Options to save, and load.
• Saving would be to local client computer. Or at least a feature to download and upload the templates if the templates are saved on the server.
  • My opinion, I think it would be more of a burden to A Net having to store these data on their server. Also, for build collectors, this would allow them to store as much build as they please.

Skills and traits template features:

• Template must include healing, utility, and elite skills.
• Current weapon skills should be included, but can be left out initially.
  • There is no need to remember the actual weapon, just the base weapon type. Ex, Scepter main hand, focus off hand.
• Include traits stats.
• Include traits skills.

Wardrobe and dye template features:

• Remember the skin of each piece of armor and outfits.
• Remember the dye selections for each piece of armor and outfits.

Template file structure:

• The template files can be a simple XML, or ini text file.
  • In the case with XML, the data can be listed in plain English along with some XML code so the server will know how to interpret the data.
  • In the case with a text ini file, the data can be listed under its classification section.

Additional consideration.

* Sharing (chat links? codes? urls?)
Sharing should be done by pinging the template in chat, as well as by allowing copying and pasting URL.

Also a feature to copy and paste text to and from chat history would help a lot in this area. Since some web site that contain build may have long URL.

* Viewing (seeing some else’s vs. seeing your own)
Again by pinging the template. Similar to GW1.

* Saving (notepad vs. local vs. account vs. web)
Saving to local. Or if save to account, then have an option to download, upload template. (I think it would just add more burden to ANet to save to account.)

* Building (one spot in UI vs. multiple spots)
Multiple. One in wardrobe. Another in traits.

* Websites (third-party sites should work with in-game)
A must.

* APIs (Could expose an API to third-parties)
Would be very nice.

* PvP vs PvE vs WvW (each mode requires different configuration options)
Yes, the template should have an indication of which build is use for which mode.

For both PvE and PvP, the transmutation system is a big obstacle to an appearance save system, at the moment you can’t change appearance independent of stats. This should be revamped first, copy the system in Rift/Lotro, keep t-stones for weapons only, then give and/or sell for gems multiple appearance tabs that saves an appearance for free and can be swapped independently of build. That still means you are going to be stuck with an appearance attached to each weapon, and all weapons still need to be kept in your bags. Unless of course you can come up with a smarter system that checks what weapon is slotted and assigns an appearance that a player previously chose to it. In PvP this could work differently, a player could select the weapon slot and get a list of all possible weapons, regardless if these are in their inventory or not, the appearance could be over-written by a PvP only appearance tab.

Ascended gear is another place where it becomes trickier than it shouls. If exotic was still the highest rarity I don’t think many would mind if the build system only dealt with level 80 exotics. And then there is the account-bound feature of ascended. Some changes to ascended I think will make the task easier:

When a piece of ascended gear is acquired, it unlocks the stat combination and armour weight and slot across the account e.g. acquiring a berserker heavy glove lets all heavy armour wearers select berserker stats for their ascended gloves, and then every time another heavy glove with different stats is acquired the increases the options that can be selected. That’s of course if they want to keep the special quality that ascended gear is always account-bound, don’t see how shuffling ascended gear around characters can be made work with a build save system easily.

Runes and sigils are more problematic, the PvP build system has a work-around (one item for 6 runes, not slotted into armour) but it would be more difficult for PvE/WvW, the build system could ignore them completely but that defeats the purpose really. The upgrade components could be crafted into an ascended version, same stats but ascended rarity, and then slotted into an ascended armour piece, which permanently unlocks that upgrade component for that equipment slot. Or the whole upgrade system could be changed to match PvP more closely.

Now that leads to a situation where you can click an ascended item you have equipped and then be able to select any stat combos and upgrade components that are unlocked on the account. Include some of the ‘fill down’ buttons that the online builders have, and then add a save button to save the current set-up, with an option to save both equipment and traits or just equipment. Exotic gear would stay the same way, and would be potentially easier to manage since it is character bound.

The ideal situation is one where you can swap equipment, traits and appearance independently of each other, and without your bags filling up with various equipment. I think if the appearance system was looked at first, it would make the task much more easier, plenty of other shortcuts to consider like make back items and aquabreathers cosmetic only.

When we will have saved template system , Could we change build on the Battle in PVP ?Or, Could we alter build during PVP arena, but can’t change on the battle.
Let’s prepare more build to counter our enemies.

Right now, all I’d like is the ability to save trait builds. Once that’s implemented, you could work on expanding the system, but traits should be easy to implement and that alone would save a lot of time.

Sounds very well

My little additional wish: Please dont forget the mini-pets

Evan Lesh.3295:

Roe.3679:

Start small, man. Basic template it still better than no template.

Why not discuss the best possible system? Scheduling and phasing feature releases is our deal :P Plus, there’s no way we can avoid remaking the entire feature later unless we are good about scoping all possibilities.

I understand your point Evan about wanting to nail a final overall vision in your mind and this thread helps with that.

But, I would do this like you did with the LFG tool, start small and add to it over a period of time. The more complicated you make it initially the longer it will take to see the light of day.

I think just introducing it in sPvP to start off with would be a good idea, as everyone as access to all equipment there (well nearly), so would be easier to implement. Get rid of all the skyhammer qq as well since everyone can save a skyhammer build.

Yes please, build templates in all game modes. Thank you!

Maybe even go as far as a full “inspect” system, so you could just right click someone and see exactly what they have equipped, right down to the dyes, so you could replicate their look and build if you wanted.

Obvious problems with this idea:

- “Zerk only” groups would find enforcement easier, but maybe that’s not really a problem. If that’s not how you play, maybe you should just avoid those groups.

- In WvW you wouldn’t want the enemy to inspect you.

- In PvP you might not even want friendlies to inspect you, so as to keep your secret recipe to yourself.

Being a part of a template should prevent a piece of gear from being accidentally destroyed, sold, salvaged, etc.. Maybe even move template gear into a special kind of non-bag (account-wide, for legendary sharing?) storage.

Evan Lesh.3295:

Things that must be in a template:

• Weapons
• Sigils
• Rune
• Amulet
• Skills
• Traits

(As this is the PvP section it’s natural that this post includes only the PvP gear but if we’re talking about the templates in general the templates should include other accessories as well besides just the amulet for [PvE and WvW that is as PvP has only an amulet])

Not sure how this is planned to be implemented but by the sound of it either a build gets assigned a very specific list of items (very specific weapon, like “Some Name’s Hammer or Fire, Berserker Amulet” etc.) that the game automatically picks from your inventory and switches with the current gear.

Or the build template’s info is just visible around the correct spots so the player him/herself can see what gear he/she should pick to match the selected build template.

So case 1. Load template -> game switches the traits, skills and gear to match to be like in the selected template. If matching gear is not found or traits are not unlocked the template wouldn’t either load at all or would only switch the parts that are possible at the moment.

Case 2. Load template -> game switches traits and skills and prompts you to switch the gear (weapons [inc. sigil], armor [runes], amulet [PvP + others] and other accessories [PvE & WvW]) to match the gear set in the template. Possibly by showing only the gear the template’s criteria as selectable gear:

• So for example if the template has exotic quality berserker stat light armor gear with superior runes of strength, the equipment area would only show exotic berserker light armor gear with superior runes of strength, not other types of armor the person possibly has in their inventory.

I personally think it’d be much more convenient if the game automatically switched everything to match the template but that could prove to be a difficult thing to implement to the game.

Continuing the post…

Evan Lesh.3295:

What could be in a template:

• Skins
• Dyes
• Outfit
• Finisher

If the template system switched things around automatically when switching a template it’d be nice if the skins and dyes were included. However this could possibly hinder for example the possibility of making templates shareable as not all players may have all dyes unlocked or have the correct armor set with a very specific skin. They might also not have the outfit unlocked.

But if it was just an additional feature that was for example presented near the current selection (current gear’s skin vs. template’s skin) that’d be quite cool.

Evan Lesh.3295:

Things to consider:

• Sharing (chat links? codes? urls?)
• Viewing (seeing some else’s vs. seeing your own)
• Saving (notepad vs. local vs. account vs. web)
• Building (one spot in UI vs. multiple spots)
• Websites (third-party sites should work with in-game)
• APIs (Could expose an API to third-parties)
• PvP vs PvE vs WvW (each mode requires different configuration options)

How would you like to see any/all of these work?

I loved the fact how template sharing was done in GW1 and I think similar system would be awesome. In my opinion the most convenient way (from player’s point of view) to do this would be to have the template generate a unique code that’d work both as a template code and a chat link.

As a code it could be used to load up the template with its full information on the template screen and as a chat link it could work the way that if a player clicked the chat link it’d preview the template by showing the information on the template window.

As for comparing your template vs. someone else’s template. That’d be great, perhaps the chat link could have that feature (and also the template window, so you could even compare your saved templates with each other). So for example if the player right clicked the chat link it’d have “Preview” (just preview the build) and “Compare” (would bring straight to the comparison window and by default choose your current build to be compared to the selected one. If the selected template was a PvP build it’d compare your PvP template even if you were in PvE or WvW at that very moment.).

Saving multiple build templates would be great and I personally think the most convenient way from player’s point of view would be if the information was saved to account’s info (so not locally), perhaps limit the amount of templates a player can save. For example a limit of 20 or 30 maximum templates would be enough to please even the most hardcore build changers. Naturally an option to delete old templates would be a must.

Naturally it’d be great if each game type had its own templates. For example PvP doesn’t have other accessories besides amulet so configuring the templates to work differently for each game type (perhaps only show working templates if the player is in the correct game type area to switch the current build to match the one in the template. So you couldn’t switch your PvP build in Lion’s Arch for example).

Just my few opinions on this matter. Hopefully everything works out and you manage to make this feature an awesome one! Good luck!

What about converting WvW into PvP build structure?

You still get normal+wxp, so you could level your characters without being “upscaled”
You still get loot after kills.
Same simple build UI as in pvp.
No consumables, easier balance.
No armor dmg.
Less hate toward "upscaled"s.

For the pve I think that even just saving traits and maybe skills from 6 to 0 would be enough, weapons and armors get often swapped, modified in some way (could be stats wise or aesthetically) so I wouldn’t bother with that. The most annoying thing is to change everytime our traits, now that we can easily reset them and change them any time it would be perfect to save a trait setup.

In pvp instead we don’t have a problem with the runes/sigils/amulets etc since they’re all automatically unlocked, so it would be nice to save everything but, like for the pve, I would leave out any dye/skin/finisher option.

Make it simple, and hopefully we will see it soon in the game

Evan Lesh.3295:

We absolutely want to make build templates…
How would you like to see any/all of these work?

What I see important here as a game designer is the weapon swapping.
It is kind of okay when you’re switching to do the same effect, like dealing damage.
BUT not if you, for example, swap to Staff from GS to Support this time, instead of dps.
In my option, alongside with a full-covering Build save, where we can save/load sub sections of our build (trait, weapon set, armor set, trinkets sticked), you guys should give us the option to re-order whole different trait setup on our weapon swaps.

Not sure how would it work out yet, this thing would give us real tactical changes within “the fragments of Holy Trinity” as you balance OP classes (like Warrior, Guardians, Eles, Mesmers,…) too.

So finally, as Ranger with beloved companion ser. DeadPet and Lord Nerf Plathypus, could use LB and GS both effective. Not like CoolDowns are a good idea anyway…

Or please just tell your mates to really care about rangers this year… thanks!

Evan Lesh.3295:

Roe.3679:

Start small, man. Basic template it still better than no template.

Why not discuss the best possible system? Scheduling and phasing feature releases is our deal :P Plus, there’s no way we can avoid remaking the entire feature later unless we are good about scoping all possibilities.

I’m sure that I’m not alone when I say I appreciate your attention to detail and your drive for perfection, but this is a good instance where a small step can go a long way.

Evan Lesh.3295:

We absolutely want to make build templates. They could work similar to GW1, but there are more components to a build now. Using the old string-code method may prove to be unwieldy.

Things that must be in a template:

• Weapons
• Sigils
• Rune
• Amulet
• Skills
• Traits

What could be in a template:

• Skins
• Dyes
• Outfit
• Finisher

Things to consider:

• Sharing (chat links? codes? urls?)
• Viewing (seeing some else’s vs. seeing your own)
• Saving (notepad vs. local vs. account vs. web)
• Building (one spot in UI vs. multiple spots)
• Websites (third-party sites should work with in-game)
• APIs (Could expose an API to third-parties)
• PvP vs PvE vs WvW (each mode requires different configuration options)

How would you like to see any/all of these work?

If your asking the community to help the appropriate group that is supposed to take care of this problem. I might actually be worried if I was anyone else. As it stands, not surprised that a anet HR asked this question.

The Primary.6371:

If your asking the community to help the dev team with this problem then if I was anyone else, I might actually be worried.

They are not asking for help, but open for suggestions.
i.e. They don’t spend time on adding dyes to templates, if it’s something we don’t need.

Can we integrate inventory and item storage in this as well? I.e create a “kit” associated with your chosen build that stores all of your specified weapons, armor and trinkets as one item. That way switching between builds (and thus gear) won’t take up all of your inventory space and won’t mess it all up (I.e. moving certain items out of invisible bags which happens when switching from 2handed to 1handed).
This “kit” could cost 20 gold to ensure balance in regards to the value of having inventory bags.
I think we should have the ability to create custom names for our builds and sharing them should use a UI similar to the current pvp trait & gear panel.
Can there be an “inspect” option when right clicking on a player’s name (in chat bar, party ui and health ui top mid screen) that will allow us to peek at that player’s gear, traits, achievement points etc without them having to ping/share it?
Also could this feature be implemented into pve combat with a long cool down to swap builds mid combat? That way when you go into a fight and realise that your current build isn’t effective against the enemy you could hot-swap mid combat (and then a 10 mins cool down trigger). Obviously this could make pvp/wvw really imbalanced so probably not an option there.

Also a thought for the UI, you could have an option on the right click drop menu (when right clicking weapons and armor) that states "Bind to build. " which when clicked could bring up a simple selection box that allows you to select one of the builds that you have created. (This would likely require the builds to have a naming function.)

When gear is unequipped/swapped a warning should display to say “this action will unbind the item from it’s current build. Continue? Yes/No.”
That way we can keep track of item swapping in builds so I don’t swap to my build and find that my char is naked and weapon less because I’ve upgraded my gear and forgot to bind it.

If this is implemented in other parts of the game:

Please please you MUST limit the ability to switching templates in WvW to your spawn area.

Imagine you’re running around capping camps for your team and you come across a thief. The thief engages you, notices his build cannot kill yours so he shadow steps away, goes invis, and exits combat almost instantly. Now while in stealth he hits one button and his entire build has been changed to counter yours and he attacks you and destroys you.

This issue would be even worse in smaller group fights as the thief can disengage even easier and you’re stuck in combat with other enemies while he’s switching builds in stealth.

Thieves will have a huge advantage. You need to to limit template switching to your main base. Why the main base you ask? Imagine this scenario:

You’re roaming around with your normal build and you spot a necro. Pop open your menu as you walk up to him and click on “Necro Counter-build.” How lame is that? That’s pretty lame.

EvilSardine.9635:

If this is implemented in other parts of the game:

Please please you MUST limit the ability to switching templates in WvW to your spawn area.

Imagine you’re running around capping camps for your team and you come across a thief. The thief engages you, notices his build cannot kill yours so he shadow steps away, goes invis, and exits combat almost instantly. Now while in stealth he hits one button and his entire build has been changed to counter yours and he attacks you and destroys you.

This issue would be even worse in smaller group fights as the thief can disengage even easier and you’re stuck in combat with other enemies while he’s switching builds in stealth.

Thieves will have a huge advantage. You need to to limit template switching to your main base. Why the main base you ask? Imagine this scenario:

You’re roaming around with your normal build and you spot a necro. Pop open your menu as you walk up to him and click on “Necro Counter-build.” How lame is that? That’s pretty lame.

Agreed, there should be some cooldown on template switching to prevent build swaps in the middle of a PvP match or during an encounter in WvW. We already see elementalists doing pseudo-weapon swaps by keeping their inventory open. It would be worse if they could swap a whole build in the middle of combat.

idea to make it easy for pve/wvw^^

why you guyz not just make stats a systgem same like warderobe?

now this asc items are accountbound so i dont see a problem with this
when people get a new stat on a item they save it in a warderobe(staterobe^^) and than its easy to use in an template

The load should have the following include options:

• Traits
• Skills (this should probably also include class specific features such as ranger pets)
• Weapons
• Armor
• Trinkets

That way you can mix and match builds. For example I might want the traits from one build, but not the armor. These would all default to on, as I think most of the time you’d want that, but not always.

For matching weapons, armor, and trinkets it should have fallbacks (in order):

• Match on stats, upgrade, infusion, skin (I suppose some people might have identical weapons with different skins)
• Match on stats, upgrade, infusion
• Match on stats and upgrade
• Match on stats only
• Any item of the right type, if one is already equiped keep that one, otherwise highest level/rarity.

Saving color schemes would be nice, but I think that should be a separate system from saving builds and could be applied regardless of what class you are.

where did you get the picture from?

KehxD.6847:

I would like it like this ^^ Example with Photoshopped attachment.

EDIT:
I noticed just now that this was supposed to be for PvP… ^^ But this approach would be pretty similar for PvP in my opinion and also PvE possible this way.

---

So, let me explain how this would work:

• Signet Zerker (B1) would be the name of the build.
• to the bottom right of the name, is a rename sign. You can rename the build there.
• Clicking Save Build will save the build I guess.

• To the right of the Name, would be the ingame linking. Similar to the Armor linking for example. You hover over the sign and Shift + Click. It will then be in the chatbox with the name "Signet Zerker (B1). If you hover over it ingame, you can Righclick: Load if you have the same class. If you are not of the same class, It will only allow to Rightclick: Prieview and thus preview the build in a similar panel more or less, imitating another class. If you load it, It will load it into the “new” Slot and thus load everything but the name.

• The Equipment slots can be filled with either armor from your inventory, or directly be loaded from posted armor (Rightclick: Load as with a full build, but only load the armor piece into the build. Only if you share the same Armor Type.)
• If you use a build, only equipment that actually is in your inventory will be wielded upon using a build. The other slots will not change (That way, if you already wear the armor, you also keep wearing it.)

• Builds Loaded from other people do have different Item IDs for every item (even if you have the nearly same item). This way it is obvious you can’t use the same equipment as theirs (So upon loading, your armor wont change). However, you can still hover over it with the mouse in the build. This way you can reslot it, once you got the armor yourself and just preview it until then. This way you can also kind of make yourself “Dream Builds” that you can work towards.

• The same goes for Trinkets and weapons.
• If a colour is Loaded that you do not own, it still will show the right color in the build. However, if you try to load it, every dye you do not own will be replaced with a generic standard dye. (maybe even random? Would be fun to see what you get xDD) (Same as above. You can work towards that color combination then.
• Trait is more or less Obvious I guess
• The panel below allows you to click on other builds that then get displayed. The Zerker build will then move down into the panel and look like the Full Zerker for example in the list.
• There is always 1 “NEW” on the list. If you save a build on that slot, it will give you another slot (Or you could make 4 general and buyable with gems I guess)

---

So lets look at this a bit from requirements engineering perspective.
Implementing the Chatcode for the builds can be really annoying. Either the Chatcode wields every single ID in the background, or you would make a really big bunch of new IDs just for the builds. It should be manageable to do this with IDs in the Background that just display the name as the actual String.

Now the Equipment slots. Interestingly on implementing level a mixture between the normal Equiment part and the Preview. You can click on the slot and fill it with an armor piece you have in your inventory. (it will still be in the inventory) Or you can Load them into the panel from the Chat (similar to preview, but into this panel instead) The IDs inside the slots will be saved upon saving the build. This way, if you hover over it, it will display the item of which the ID is in the slot. (This goes for all Equipment pieces)

The Dyes will be the hardest part I think. The easy way would be to say, if you do not have the dye, it will load a generic dye into the panel. However, it would be alot cooler if you actually could load dyes into the panel, that you do not own, but if you load the build, the dyes will be replaced on the armor itself and not inside the build. That would be alot of crosschecks and so on. So I guess easier approach would be upon loading, even though it is less interesting ^^

The traits are pretty strait forward I think. This isn’t even Class specific per se. You can generate a String based on how much you trait in there and on which Trait numbers you get. For example the picture would be
3640711510500000000350000000000
3///6/4/05/11//5/1/05/00//0/0/00/00//3/5/00/00/0/0/00/00
First digit for Class. Example Ranger = 3
(05 (or 11 or 00), because Master and Grandmaster traits could be X-XIII and thereby 10-13)
Then it wouldn’t have to be loaded Class specifically and would then just translate it into your class after loading the string.

Rest is more or less similar. I would like to see it implemented converging to a style like this. It has great visibility and is actually easier than most other approaches.