Guild Wars 2

I want to try to give you a kind of balance idea to improve the game where you want to see it.

Many people explained it in the past year, the community dont want to run a full burst meta neither than the condi spam we have now, the solution is to find a mix spot where both specs are viable in.

What we need for success this?

- first i think many classes needs an hole overwork, the condition dmg is way too high, on the other side the survivability of these specs is not as good as need to survive for example in a burst Meta WHEN you tune down the condi dps.

- The game in general need lower CC durations, once you’r able to spam it (Warrior & Necro for example) the game completly lacks of competetive and tactical gameplay. A CC should have something to do with intelligent play and not a mindless spamming to stunlock your enemy til death.

What is need to bring back 2 viable power specs into your lineup?

Some suggestions about class balancing for a viable mixed META.

Necromancer:

- Main problem the fear chainlock dps. Necro in the past was a really fine class, the dps throwing out was quit fine, maybe a bit to low for the past survivability. Once you overloaded the Necro with all Condis in the game, the class went to S tier.

how to fix:

Traits:

Spite and curse line gives the Necro all he needs for condi burst. You have critical chance for 100 dumphire on CD and barbed precision uptime, also you get condition duration increased and power at least. All you need for the build in just 2 traitlines.

- Terror: i think the additional effect should be removed, increase dps by 50%… your enemy allways will have another condition up therefore the fear in general does to much dps, compared to a stun or daze they do zero dps… <— trait broken

- Master of terror: as i explained above, the CC duration in gerneral has to get tuned down, maybe fix the 50% duration to a 25%.

Utilities:

- signet of undead: nerf the casttime wasn’t needed, you throw the options out for using the spell anymore. No one, trust me, really nobody will use any resurection skill like this, or the elemental glyphe with an casttime 3 seconds and more… If you want to give people different specs viable we have to think logical first, the fix here would be a cast time of 2 1/4 seconds.

- signet of spike: the condi duration given out is incredible high and way over the tops. You have to remove 5 conditions at one time for not get bursted down immediately. The bleed is fine, blind and vulnear also, but than….cripple poison and weakness with such a huge uptime… weakness and cripple defently has to tune down to half of the current duration…

-plague : Plague of pestilance, the apllied weakness is way too strong, once the necro pops his elite, your enemies get hurt too much of the weak and poison spam during plague.

Death shroud

- dark path: Chill duration is too high, has to be tuned down.

-tainted shackles: Torment duration way over the tops, maybe the half amount of it’ll be fine.

szepter

-grasping dead: cripple duration has to be tuned down to the half.

-enfeebling blood: weakness duration has to be tuned down to half.

Messmer

First i want to say that any phantasm builds in my opinion have nothing to do in a competetive pvp. This builds are still viable in 1v1’s and hotjoins and so on, and could be used by ppl who actually like it to play. In general i think pet and AI based specs is nothing for competetive pvp and enjoyable matches for people to watch.

The Messmer in case is not in this bad state many ppl are complain about. The major problem of this class in my opinion is the Illusion traitline. Messmers general lack only in point of condition removal, the only usefull and very strong ability is the “shattered conditions” trait.

But here comes the problem, there is actually not one viable spec for using it, ofcourse Messmer need the shatters, therefore it is a must have for each kind of build (condi clear support shatter, burst shatter..) to put in at least 20 points in “duelling” for the non plus ultra trait deceptive evasion.

For any kind of shatter builds you need 30 points in illusions. Major problem Grandmaster trait illusionary persona. This trait is too important, you need it as well as decep evasion. Now you cannot even use the shattered conditions trait, ofcourse grandmaster as well. plus illu persona compared with shatered conditions doesnt work, its bugged. Shattered conditions only work by summoned illusions not from the Messmer it self.

To fix this, maybe remove the shattered conditions from GM to Master traitline AND nerf it this way to prevent OP’ness:

The trait nowadays effects conditional removing when illusions gets destroyed, removes a condition when a illusion dies, not when it dies by hitting the target. Enemy dodges your shatter, but condis will be still removed. Fix this by switching the trait to the master line and give it the handicap your illusions at least have to hit your enemy to trigger the condi removal!

Greatsword

The Dps this weapon deal is a bit over the tops, some small decreases should not be a problem.

Elementalist

The ele got hard nerfs in the past few months, in the current Meta a DPS burst ele can’t survive neither a bunker support one. To much CC is throwing out at the moment, by the cantrip stunbreak nerfs to the ele at least these builds are no longer viable. Blink will prevent your from incoming burst but not from the condi spam. Mistform also useless in the condi Meta…

Cleansing fire should be a stunbreaker, if you face up against a strong condition based team the ele should be also available by breaking a CC lock if he is forced to run condition removal.

If the condi Spam gets tuned down in general, the only thing ele really needs is to fix the dps. Refresh air is incredible strong, compared with lightening strike over the tops.

Thief

The sword dagger thief needs nerf to at least 1 ability. This has to be the dmg output. If you want to give the thief a sustain dps builds, while dodging most of the time and nearly evades 80% of incoming damage, you have to reduce the damage huge. A thief has to think what he wanna run, burst damage or sustain.

-larcenous strike: reduces damage output by 50% OR higher the initiative costs by 100% OR remove the evade from flanking strike

-AUTO-Attack also needs to be tuned down in this build.

-shadow-return: higher the INI costs up to 3.

Warrior

The warriors are a playable class at the moment. I talk consciously “playable” and not “viable”, ofcourse the only point a warrior will be used at the moment is his anti condition counter. With such a huge health pool, defense, fast condi removal+immunity and still high dps output the Warrior is a machine vs condition builds. But be carefull, you should not forget the warrior in his general mechanik is not made for competetive tpvp, once the Meta will switch to more power or even equal based lineups the warrior wil lbecome again a useless class! The mechanik wont work well in pvp, til messmer come back, burst thiefs and or elemntalist the warrior will be a easy to focus not much helpfull class again.

It’s really hard to balance this class around the META’s, Longbow/hammer war is such a squishy target and easy stomp, once the spirit ranger and necro stacking is gone this build will follow immediatly. The mace/gs stun build cant survive either, a really strong build in small fights mostly on backnodes, but isn’t able to chase enemies during bigger fights. wasted dps potential.

Just other few ideas, may some will help you at the current progres.

@devs, like many other told, it would be great if we could have some leaked patch notes before you’r planning to patch something bigger, if there is any option to share the updates before inplementing them with the com please think about it.

i just wanted to comment about thief and warrior.

Thief

Dude you’re crazy. Altough i understand thief needs nerf ( and i really believe there’s no way to nerf S/D without breaking the whole set), your suggestions are simply a nerf hammer on random abilities.

The real culprit of S/D opness is Inf strike, period.

This skill should be changed, the whole MH sword is OP as hell ( and i say it as a thief) and the only reason why S/P is not used over S/D is due to Pistrol whip rooting you off and being too slow ( boon stripping is really not that useful anymore).

Warrior

Again, you’re crazy.

Warriors can be played also with Mace-shield + hammer and as soon as the meta shifts, they will no more need to bring berserker stance and will be able to bring a double endure pain instead of it ( U-skill + proc), coupled with Mace-shield good blocks and a very strong healing regen.

I mean wtf, aren’t you supposed to be a top player ? and this is the best you can get ?

Nerf Hammer? by nerfing only 2 abilities of a broken class? not really…

I mean it’s ridiculous give the thief all you can get in one spec, there has to be some deficit in this build also, and a thief will still be able to deal much dps IF he spec for it with a S/D setup. More dps less surviva or the opposite, thats the thing this spec should roll for.

I discribed 2 little nerfs on this spec, a nerf hammer looks something different…

And again, the warrior’s mechanik is not viable in tpvp… Why is the Warrior working at the moment? Ppl run mindless condi spammers without stunbreakers, it’s a meal for an warrior. But once the Meta will change, the war will get eaten so hard again…

It is an option for back point, like BM ranger was in the past, but thats all. The war has 0 Team abilities unless you play with banners. So tell me why people should run a warrior? The elementalist is better in all points if a condi nerf will income. Will be able to replace the Ranger on back node if CC neither gets the hardly needed nerf.

prozon.3561:

What we need for success this?

- first i think many classes needs….. survive for example in a burst Meta WHEN you tune down the condi dps.

++*Nothing wrong with conditions for necros. condition ‘Damage’ too high.. realize that if condition damage is high all other stats are nil. and you kan kill a necro by just looking at it. lets not forget cleansing.. (this idea has been discussed and stomped into the ground often enough.) so no. ConDam. is fine. in fact some conditions can use a buff. On the mobility and survivabiliy part.. yes. then again DS overflow with normal CD on DS would help*

- The game in general need lower CC durations, once you’r able to spam it (Warrior & Necro for example) the ……mindless spamming to stunlock your enemy til death.

++*CC duration nerf? you realize you have to trait it to get it..Stunlock is warrior, necro doesn’t have a stunlock. necro has conditions to cc. wich can be broken and NOT re-applied within seconds. so no. fear can’t be chained as people claim it to be ( with trowing just one cleanse up, or a stability) or added in duration even if traited nothing compared to the fear me duration and aoe. spam conditions on a necro..? you mean AOE with a CD of 30 secs. only conditions that can be spammed are scepter, staff #1 on 5 secs.*

What is need to bring back 2 viable power specs into your lineup?

Some suggestions about class balancing for a viable mixed META.

Necromancer:

- Main problem the fear chainlock dps. Necro in the past was a really fine class, the dps throwing out was quit fine, maybe a bit to low …… Necro with all Condis in the game, the class went to S tier.

++*"Once you overloaded conditions" So we got howmany extra conditions since launch on our skills and traits? (dumbfire)*
oh and DPS on necro is formed trough condition stacking.. so .. dps? S tier?…. no..
I do understand that things have to be on equal grounds but its not necros that can spam conditions, they redirect them and spread them.

how to fix:

Traits:

Spite and curse line gives the Necro all he needs for condi burst. You have critical chance for 100 dumphire on CD and barbed precision uptime, also you get condition duration increased and power at least. All you need for the build in just 2 traitlines.

++*?*

- Terror: i think the additional effect should be removed, increase dps by 50%… your enemy allways will have another condition up therefore the fear in general does to much dps, compared to a stun or daze they do zero dps… <— trait broken

++*So take away the only way to do some damage in a “burst” form that isn’t a burst to begin with.. stun is CC fear is a condition that can be removed broken etc etc etc…*

- Master of terror: as i explained above, the CC duration in gerneral has to get tuned down, maybe fix the 50% duration to a 25%.

++*Read above comments on warrior. so you want a max of what ? 2 seconds of fear from a necro without mobility so people can just use a leap to make up for the distance created by fear on them*

Utilities:

- signet of undead: nerf the casttime wasn’t needed, you throw the options out for using the spell anymore. No one, trust me, really nobody will use any resurection skill like this, or the elemental glyphe with an casttime 3 seconds and more… If you want to give people different specs viable we have to think logical first, the fix here would be a cast time of 2 1/4 seconds.

++*Even at 2 1/4 secs i wouldn’t use it*

- signet of spike: the condi duration given out is incredible high and way over the tops. You have to remove 5 conditions at one time for not get bursted down immediately. The bleed is fine, blind and vulnear also, but than….cripple poison and weakness with such a huge uptime… weakness and cripple defently has to tune down to half of the current duration…

++*right…….nerf them couldn’t care less if they give us stun daze with the same uptime as other profs in return..since we are now entering the comical part of the post*

-plague : Plague of pestilance, the apllied weakness is way too strong, once the necro pops his elite, your enemies get hurt too much of the weak and poison spam during plague.

++*serves you right for standing in the aoe*

Death shroud

- dark path: Chill duration is too high, has to be tuned down.

++*LMAO sure why not..hey lets just delete necro entirely.. if they give us a stun on hit and stunbreak on cast .. ok..*

-tainted shackles: Torment duration way over the tops, maybe the half amount of it’ll be fine.

++*Yeah lets nerf even more.*

szepter

-grasping dead: cripple duration has to be tuned down to the half.

-enfeebling blood: weakness duration has to be tuned down to half.

++*iow. lets nerf necro back to the instagib times*

Honestly all these nerfs to benifit the non excistent so called conditions meta ..?

This is why we have professionals at anet who calculate any nerfs before implementing then in charge, as much as I dislike them the alternative right here is a nightmare, although I will screenshot this post as a form of evidence in the future

Again 2 answer from: Merlin Dyfed Avalon.5046 not found in the lb
SpehssMehreen.5897 not found in lb

Casuals, please, PLEASE stop arguing, you are ruining the hole game cause any sorts of devs are listen to ur unqualified comments again and again. You have no clue how this game work in any competitive state… PVP can’t be balanced around 90% of the people, the 10% is the key factor!!!

You have no, really NO clue whats going on, this post isn’t made for necro fanboys… even if it’s hard, you should ignore it…

I know the warrior CC is also a broken OP kitten… but i also know once the Meta changed warrior will not be used anymore, only reasson i didn’t go in details here.

@merlin, i wont answer all your points, i give you only once:

What do you think will happen if a Necro or any other condition based class at least has to think WHEN to use a condition like “cripple” “chill” “poison” “torment” “weakness” on your enemy, and not like nowadays just SPAM it all out?

prozon.3561:

Again 2 answer from: Merlin Dyfed Avalon.5046 not found in the lb
SpehssMehreen.5897 not found in lb

Casuals, please, PLEASE stop arguing, you are ruining the hole game cause any sorts of devs are listen to ur unqualified comments again and again. You have no clue how this game work in any competitive state… PVP can’t be balanced around 90% of the people, the 10% is the key factor!!!

You have no, really NO clue whats going on, this post isn’t made for necro fanboys… even if it’s hard, you should ignore it…

I know the warrior CC is also a broken OP kitten… but i also know once the Meta changed warrior will not be used anymore, only reasson i didn’t go in details here.

@merlin, i wont answer all your points, i give you only once:

What do you think will happen if a Necro or any other condition based class at least has to think WHEN to use a condition like “cripple” “chill” “poison” “torment” “weakness” on your enemy, and not like nowadays just SPAM it all out?

Sorry you can’t find me on the leaderboards.. really sorry. that must mean i don’t know kitten.. (15 years in professional gaming/organizer of dutch champoinships , and teamcaptain for over 8 years of the gamesyndicate with #1 worldchampion Quake/CS/RA/ onder my wings..

I must be a casual.. ^^

~edit~

note, i am a necro fanboy.. i do give you that one..

dont compare apples with pears, Usain bolt is the fastest man over the world but twice he isn’t the best Boxer :-)

Quake,CS…. and a MMO…. GG

Ur not on the boards, never heard of you, y you might have no clue of the szene in THIS game. Isn’t it?

E:

NB: funny how you post discuss at the end of your post then use comebacks as .. you are not on a rank so your opinion doesn’t count.. good comeback ..

I allready removed this since you answered

What do you think will happen if a Necro or any other condition based class at least has to think WHEN to use a condition like “cripple” “chill” “poison” “torment” “weakness” on your enemy, and not like nowadays just SPAM it all out?

To be honest, i play dagger warhorn/axe focus because i despise spam. wells scepter and staff are not in my repetiore because frankly.. its boring and yes a bit thoughtless.. but taking out fear and the triats going with it wont help the “spam”.

Why i answered you is mostly because you Are on a learderboard and apparenlty that means something. and since you want to take out the entire fear/DS mechanic and trait line on necro i just had to post.

prozon.3561:

Nerf Hammer? by nerfing only 2 abilities of a broken class? not really…

I mean it’s ridiculous give the thief all you can get in one spec, there has to be some deficit in this build also, and a thief will still be able to deal much dps IF he spec for it with a S/D setup. More dps less surviva or the opposite, thats the thing this spec should roll for.

I discribed 2 little nerfs on this spec, a nerf hammer looks something different…

And again, the warrior’s mechanik is not viable in tpvp… Why is the Warrior working at the moment? Ppl run mindless condi spammers without stunbreakers, it’s a meal for an warrior. But once the Meta will change, the war will get eaten so hard again…

It is an option for back point, like BM ranger was in the past, but thats all. The war has 0 Team abilities unless you play with banners. So tell me why people should run a warrior? The elementalist is better in all points if a condi nerf will income. Will be able to replace the Ranger on back node if CC neither gets the hardly needed nerf.

You wanted to bring down a dps ability by 50%. This is what i could descrive as a “nerf hammer” just like they did in the past with dancing dagger ( and we all know the state of that skill).

As i said, i believe there’s no way to nerf S/D without bringing the whole set down, still you completely missed the point of S/D opness: an S/D thief is capable to snowball simply due to Inf strike making the thief able to port everywhere.

No enemi will ever escape from the thief, no repositioning on ledges allowed, Inf strike will get you no matters what.

Flanking evade is not OP, Larcenous is strong but not gambreaking: Inf strike is.

If you, as a mesmer, didn’t understand this then i bet nobody will aside thieves, since mesmers are the ones getting trained so bad by this skill.

Regarding warrior, as long as they have strong CCs, they’ll still be viable.

Again, if the meta shifts, berserker stance won’t be kept as a must have, and cleansing ire will be more than enough.

You will basically have good old burst wars with nothing more than 200 less power and 10% less damage on GS, with ridicolous sustain a 4 secs stun on skull crack to chain CC and burst a foe down ( this coupled with a good banner ress).

And CC wars will still be viable.

All packed in a tanky build with blocks and good toughness.

You’re seriously underrating the warrior

Finally someone who reflects about his suggestions and doesn’t mindlessly cry out for nerfs and buffs. Though I don’t agree 100% on all of your statemets you get a +1 from me.

Just to add some of my thoughts to your list:
The problem with the insane amount of CCs could be solved by implementing something like DR in WoW. Same could be done to conditions – that way people would have to time their spells (not only their own but all the CCs of the group) to first force defensive cooldowns/heals/condition-removals and then try to finally kill the opponent. Because not every class has access to every CC a variety of classes would be beneficial to your group (not only run 3 olol-Nekros that chain-fear enemies into oblivion). You can still make CC-chains but it would afford decent teamwork. In addition Defensive CDs and also CCs should have higher Cooldowns and not be spammable. This would tone down the speed of the game – people can react better to their opponents’ actions and good timing and knowledge of the opponents’ skills/traits/builds would reward skilled players more. Heals should be toned down or have higher CDs – that way well timed dodges or blocks gain importance. Weapon-Skills that heal should in turn be made more efficient and have lower CDs – that way classes playing mainly support (like the rarely seen staff-eles) may be more viable and important to a group. And finally downed-state should be removed at least in PvP – people should be rewarded when killing an opponent (especially when it was 2v1 for example). In addition it would be fun to make positioning and kiting more important – right now you can’t even make use of environmental objects because most casts even go through them.

I know all these suggestions would completely alter the way PvP is done right now and turns the playstyle into a direction of other popular games (like mentioned, WoW). And though other games also had balancing-issues I enjoyed PvP much more than in GW2. Right now people (I for myself) just try to press as many spells as possible as fast as possible because sadly that’s the most efficient playstyle – but is it fun?

Merlin Dyfed Avalon.5046:

What do you think will happen if a Necro or any other condition based class at least has to think WHEN to use a condition like “cripple” “chill” “poison” “torment” “weakness” on your enemy, and not like nowadays just SPAM it all out?

To be honest, i play dagger warhorn/axe focus because i despise spam. wells scepter and staff are not in my repetiore because frankly.. its boring and yes a bit thoughtless.. but taking out fear and the triats going with it wont help the “spam”.

Why i answered you is mostly because you Are on a learderboard and apparenlty that means something. and since you want to take out the entire fear/DS mechanic and trait line on necro i just had to post.

I don’t want to take it out, just put it in a good state. So your build wont be touched as much as the famous szep/dag staff. The condis are too much and to long duration, cripple your foe by 10-15seconds…

thats rediclious. 100% poison and weakness uptime, you cant force players to use any kinds of power builds until this is still in the game.

Mrbig.8019:

prozon.3561:

Nerf Hammer? by nerfing only 2 abilities of a broken class? not really…

I mean it’s ridiculous give the thief all you can get in one spec, there has to be some deficit in this build also, and a thief will still be able to deal much dps IF he spec for it with a S/D setup. More dps less surviva or the opposite, thats the thing this spec should roll for.

I discribed 2 little nerfs on this spec, a nerf hammer looks something different…

And again, the warrior’s mechanik is not viable in tpvp… Why is the Warrior working at the moment? Ppl run mindless condi spammers without stunbreakers, it’s a meal for an warrior. But once the Meta will change, the war will get eaten so hard again…

It is an option for back point, like BM ranger was in the past, but thats all. The war has 0 Team abilities unless you play with banners. So tell me why people should run a warrior? The elementalist is better in all points if a condi nerf will income. Will be able to replace the Ranger on back node if CC neither gets the hardly needed nerf.

You wanted to bring down a dps ability by 50%. This is what i could descrive as a “nerf hammer” just like they did in the past with dancing dagger ( and we all know the state of that skill).

As i said, i believe there’s no way to nerf S/D without bringing the whole set down, still you completely missed the point of S/D opness: an S/D thief is capable to snowball simply due to Inf strike making the thief able to port everywhere.

No enemi will ever escape from the thief, no repositioning on ledges allowed, Inf strike will get you no matters what.

Flanking evade is not OP, Larcenous is strong but not gambreaking: Inf strike is.

If you, as a mesmer, didn’t understand this then i bet nobody will aside thieves, since mesmers are the ones getting trained so bad by this skill.

Regarding warrior, as long as they have strong CCs, they’ll still be viable.

Again, if the meta shifts, berserker stance won’t be kept as a must have, and cleansing ire will be more than enough.

You will basically have good old burst wars with nothing more than 200 less power and 10% less damage on GS, with ridicolous sustain a 4 secs stun on skull crack to chain CC and burst a foe down ( this coupled with a good banner ress).

And CC wars will still be viable.

All packed in a tanky build with blocks and good toughness.

You’re seriously underrating the warrior

The problem is this CC build needs to stay near your foe all the time. The sustain dmg of this build lack huge in teamfights ofcourse normally ur not able even to land it. As i said, in small fights, 1v1 and 2v2 the war will be nice but anything else this class gives for team support is rezing… The war has huge issues vs power based sustain dps specs, once the meta shift for example gs Messmer the war will be more worse than a elementalist for example. Lack of AOE, has only single Target CC and DPS, cause nobody near your skullcracked foe will sit in your 100b… thief will ever be the master of chasing one guy.

prozon.3561:

Merlin Dyfed Avalon.5046:

What do you think will happen if a Necro or any other condition based class at least has to think WHEN to use a condition like “cripple” “chill” “poison” “torment” “weakness” on your enemy, and not like nowadays just SPAM it all out?

To be honest, i play dagger warhorn/axe focus because i despise spam. wells scepter and staff are not in my repetiore because frankly.. its boring and yes a bit thoughtless.. but taking out fear and the triats going with it wont help the “spam”.

Why i answered you is mostly because you Are on a learderboard and apparenlty that means something. and since you want to take out the entire fear/DS mechanic and trait line on necro i just had to post.

I don’t want to take it out, just put it in a good state. So your build wont be touched as much as the famous szep/dag staff. The condis are too much and to long duration, cripple your foe by 10-15seconds…

thats rediclious. 100% poison and weakness uptime, you cant force players to use any kinds of power builds until this is still in the game.

If ,and it’s a big “if” as you probably know, they would adress the mobility together with gap closers/survivability on a necro your suggestion on chill and poison has validity.

prozon.3561:

Mrbig.8019:

prozon.3561:

Nerf Hammer? by nerfing only 2 abilities of a broken class? not really…

I mean it’s ridiculous give the thief all you can get in one spec, there has to be some deficit in this build also, and a thief will still be able to deal much dps IF he spec for it with a S/D setup. More dps less surviva or the opposite, thats the thing this spec should roll for.

I discribed 2 little nerfs on this spec, a nerf hammer looks something different…

And again, the warrior’s mechanik is not viable in tpvp… Why is the Warrior working at the moment? Ppl run mindless condi spammers without stunbreakers, it’s a meal for an warrior. But once the Meta will change, the war will get eaten so hard again…

It is an option for back point, like BM ranger was in the past, but thats all. The war has 0 Team abilities unless you play with banners. So tell me why people should run a warrior? The elementalist is better in all points if a condi nerf will income. Will be able to replace the Ranger on back node if CC neither gets the hardly needed nerf.

You wanted to bring down a dps ability by 50%. This is what i could descrive as a “nerf hammer” just like they did in the past with dancing dagger ( and we all know the state of that skill).

As i said, i believe there’s no way to nerf S/D without bringing the whole set down, still you completely missed the point of S/D opness: an S/D thief is capable to snowball simply due to Inf strike making the thief able to port everywhere.

No enemi will ever escape from the thief, no repositioning on ledges allowed, Inf strike will get you no matters what.

Flanking evade is not OP, Larcenous is strong but not gambreaking: Inf strike is.

If you, as a mesmer, didn’t understand this then i bet nobody will aside thieves, since mesmers are the ones getting trained so bad by this skill.

Regarding warrior, as long as they have strong CCs, they’ll still be viable.

Again, if the meta shifts, berserker stance won’t be kept as a must have, and cleansing ire will be more than enough.

You will basically have good old burst wars with nothing more than 200 less power and 10% less damage on GS, with ridicolous sustain a 4 secs stun on skull crack to chain CC and burst a foe down ( this coupled with a good banner ress).

And CC wars will still be viable.

All packed in a tanky build with blocks and good toughness.

You’re seriously underrating the warrior

The problem is this CC build needs to stay near your foe all the time. The sustain dmg of this build lack huge in teamfights ofcourse normally ur not able even to land it. As i said, in small fights, 1v1 and 2v2 the war will be nice but anything else this class gives for team support is rezing… The war has huge issues vs power based sustain dps specs, once the meta shift for example gs Messmer the war will be more worse than a elementalist for example. Lack of AOE, has only single Target CC and DPS, cause nobody near your skullcracked foe will sit in your 100b… thief will ever be the master of chasing one guy.

Devs’ re aware mesmer GS and ele damage is over the top and are only held down by the meta.

You say warrior lacks in teamfights, but as soon as a war joins the fight and focus the necro/engi/whatever aside mesmer and thief, as long as the skull crack lands HE WILL GO DOWN.

If they try to ress them, poison+ aoe cleave, which warrior has plenty.

He will also be harder to focus: heal signet + blocks ( mace-shield) + endure pain + 25% more stance duration.

It’s a good sustain build, strong 1vs1 and useful in teamfights: surely not every team will use a warrior in their comp, but saying “lulz it won’t fit” is wrong.

Warriors are strong now.

Warriors are strong NOW, i never dinied this. Again, your theory works in my opinion only well in one current map, that is legacy. On Temple and Kyhlo there are to many ways for disengage, it will take the war to much time to follow all over the ledges… About Forest i wont talk, cause forest midpoint a war can nearly do nothing again Necros spamming from the ledges and if using the worm port you are not able to deal with it. Thief is much better in this situations at all.

I think once the MEta is viable without a Necro in, the warrior will not be able to catch his foes anymore, ppl are forced to use stunbreakers and toughness, and in general the warrior lacks against power builds, your 100b does not the damage you need if you land it once. Best example is a guardian, it needs years for a 100b war to kill it, at least ur not able to kill a good one.

But you are right, against a necro this build is still the best counter, it’s the only class which you can enjoy fighting against a necro, cause he can’t do anything against the war… but its only the necro..

prozon.3561:

Warriors are strong NOW, i never dinied this. Again, your theory works in my opinion only well in one current map, that is legacy. On Temple and Kyhlo there are to many ways for disengage, it will take the war to much time to follow all over the ledges… About Forest i wont talk, cause forest midpoint a war can nearly do nothing again Necros spamming from the ledges and if using the worm port you are not able to deal with it. Thief is much better in this situations at all.

I think once the MEta is viable without a Necro in, the warrior will not be able to catch his foes anymore, ppl are forced to use stunbreakers and toughness, and in general the warrior lacks against power builds, your 100b does not the damage you need if you land it once. Best example is a guardian, it needs years for a 100b war to kill it, at least ur not able to kill a good one.

But you are right, against a necro this build is still the best counter, it’s the only class which you can enjoy fighting against a necro, cause he can’t do anything against the war… but its only the necro..

You’re picturing a meta with no engies, rangers and necros.

You are talking like if we’re going back to the old burst meta we had sometime ago.

It won’t happen, the only classes currently capable to deal REALLY high damage are GS mesmer and Ele, with thief following.

As long as classes with no teleports will be kept in the meta, the warrior will have a place.

If condi meta disappears due to wars, then we’ll be back to GW 1 and “Build wars”, where war comp counters condi comp, power comp counters war comp and condi comp counters power comp.

You should really hope this to never happen.

But i think exactly this will happen. If you look at the class mechanics many facts are going into this direction. We never had a really mixed Meta, ofcourse this… That is why it’s hard to balance for reaching such a target.

At the moment the engi also is a pretty strong viable class, the Ranger as well in general. Rangers and warriors are fine in a role like back node’s and 1v1 beast’s, but it’s the wrong way if they can get awesome grp support and still be able to run a extremly strong 1v1 spec. Like we saw in past, the best examples are ele’s and messmer’s.

Mrbig.8019:

prozon.3561:

Warriors are strong NOW, i never dinied this. Again, your theory works in my opinion only well in one current map, that is legacy. On Temple and Kyhlo there are to many ways for disengage, it will take the war to much time to follow all over the ledges… About Forest i wont talk, cause forest midpoint a war can nearly do nothing again Necros spamming from the ledges and if using the worm port you are not able to deal with it. Thief is much better in this situations at all.

I think once the MEta is viable without a Necro in, the warrior will not be able to catch his foes anymore, ppl are forced to use stunbreakers and toughness, and in general the warrior lacks against power builds, your 100b does not the damage you need if you land it once. Best example is a guardian, it needs years for a 100b war to kill it, at least ur not able to kill a good one.

But you are right, against a necro this build is still the best counter, it’s the only class which you can enjoy fighting against a necro, cause he can’t do anything against the war… but its only the necro..

You’re picturing a meta with no engies, rangers and necros.

You are talking like if we’re going back to the old burst meta we had sometime ago.

It won’t happen, the only classes currently capable to deal REALLY high damage are GS mesmer and Ele, with thief following.

As long as classes with no teleports will be kept in the meta, the warrior will have a place.

If condi meta disappears due to wars, then we’ll be back to GW 1 and “Build wars”, where war comp counters condi comp, power comp counters war comp and condi comp counters power comp.

You should really hope this to never happen.

Whatever makes power comps viable. Btw mr what’s your ign?