Guild Wars 2

First I’d like to thank the teams participating in the ToL 3 NA and congratulate the final 4 teams which made the end of this a nail biter on who would actually make it to the finals.
Final 4 (I wish I could reference direct players but it does not allow it in the description so forgive the build titles as names.)
Abjured vs. Little People Big World
This was a very excited opener to the final 4 as the LPBW is a very new team but with recognizable players. LPBW opened the match very strong taking out abjured DPS (Medi Guard/Thief) right off the bat giving them a strong advantage on point. The Abjured, known for coming back from hard hits like this do it yet again as their celestials kited the map, the burst classes came in and kept the game close as they decided the target needed to be changed and hit hard. LPBW’s dps guard and Mesmer became a strong target to hit and once they were taken out LPBW struggled to keep up with the DPS and were taken out in a 2-0 fashion. Although they were swept, this group was a pleasant surprise to see coming from a new team and scoring more than most teams coming against The Abjured.

Cunning Stunts vs Booty Bakery
Composing of known players and part of a disbanded ApeX, Booty Bakery were a pleasant surprise to be seen in the tournament sweeping very strong teams and giving one exciting game in the elite 8. But they have to go through the 2nd best team right now in GW2 NA, formerly known as Risky Business, Cunning Stunts. This was expected to be a very exciting match as both start off extremely strong in most games and but fall off near the end so it was the battle of the persistence. This persistence was handed to the CS team as they kept the pressure up with their triple celestial comp against the triple zerker comp. The 2-0 game was handed to CS in a slightly let down play from Booty Bakery and the weight they carry, though give it a couple weeks and Booty Bakery will could potentially take the 2nd place team title, and who knows. Maybe even first!
Finals:
Abjured Vs Cunning stunts
This game is always a very hyped match between the two teams that just seem to never lose against anyone ranked under them. Abjured are the champs and the powerhouse of NA and Cunning Stunts comes in as the underdog. With this being the best of 5, CD knew they needed to win the first game of the series to make known their statement they wanted to have in this matchup and to allow themselves to have a small buffer as the3rd match was guaranteed to be played on foefire, the scarest map to have to play Abjured on. Sadly, this matchup did not hold up to the hope of the viewers on the stream as Abjured turned on full throttle and annihilated the 2nd place team winning the legendaries and the ToL.

Analysis
Overall this tournament was a thrill to watch with some games coming down to the last point winning 501-499, and some coming down to that last bit of cleave and that last critical hit that killed a downed player. But what can be taken from this massively long tournament.
Looking at the team that surprised the world, LPBW gave the Abjured the biggest run for their money of all teams in this tournament. From their comp, they had the standard shoutbow, panic strike thief, and DD ele, but from there they changed a bit up. They ran a full DPS burst based (not spike based DPS like the hammer meta used today) and a shatter Mesmer when has been edging back into the meta on NA very slowly as it has been known to be able to 1v1 power necro’s and 1 shot meditation guardians very use full against the abjured since they run both.
Looking at the 2nd place team, however, CS ran nearly the same comp, just build changes. They ran the same shoutbow, panic strike thief, and DD ele spec as LPBW but they ran a meta bunker guardian instead of the full burst that LPBW’s guardian enjoys running and also a celestial Engineer. This is a very meta spec so I don’t think I need to explain too much about how it works, but know this is a VERY tanky comp running 3 celestial instead of 2 they have 3 classes that can 1v1 and a couple that can 1v2 for a decent amount of time instead of going with the classes that will help role over enemies quickly, but they’re fragile.
Where do these teams find their success and how can they build on that said success?
From watching these teams and even booty bakery that has the perfect combination of these two teams listed above, there are so base classes required to be successful against abjured.
Strong Base Classes:
-Shoutbow: Provides a free rez, a very strong tanking player, and an AOE 6k heal while also able to deal a lot of damage as might can reach up to 20 stacks making all attacks this class uses a death threat for they all hit HARD.
-Panic Strike Thief: Not only is this class a dps train, but it sets up the entire team for a huge burst that can be coordinated very easily as the immobilizes supplied are endless for this class.
-Medi guard: This class, while the build is debated, the class is a must in a successful team comp as it is the only sense of stability and a huge crowd control based class while also being capable of hitting 4,5,6k in a single skill which otherwise can only be hit on thief., very similar to the “Man-bow” build used in previous metas otherwise called the Zerker Hambow.
The Debateable Classes:
- DD Ele: This build is the single handed tank of GW2 right now, it has some outer heals but nothing near the 16 second cooldown multi shout heals that shoutbow provide, but nothing can hold a point better than a DD ele when asking for a bunker. Additionally this class is very fast and it applies a lot of might so coordinated with a shoutbow, you’re looking at 25 stacks of might and a very strong fight on point. So this class is in question on how useful a tank that can’t heal very well is.
Cele Engi: This class is a part of the Abjured meta and is the CC/DPS version of a Cele ele. This is the condi bomb and lock down class in gw2 right now while also able to hit up to 4,5k on some skills. The issue, is it’s it own counter. CC and conditions will destroy this class so sitting on point with a cele engi or fighting a thief can sometimes really hurt this engi as conditions are apparent in most classes in this meta.
Shatter Mesmer: Shatter Mesmer is the one class in this meta capable of 1 shotting and truly destroy an opponent but it is the definition of a glass cannon so the invuln that is on this class is a necessary thing to master when a thief is hunting you down. Additionally this class provides a nukeable ability with portal to out rotate the opponents and provide movement benefits to slow classes like medi guard and necro.
Power necro: Power necro’s are the AOE nuke class. Simply put, this class knows how to hit a point HARD. The issue? No stability and very little ability to sustain in 1v2’s and against CC based classes where a Mesmer or engi would have had a very easy time with.

Looking at those generic summaries of the meta classes and the debatable ones, how does a team decide the last 2 spots and what to fill them with. And looking at the games today, I think that answer can be found. When looking at the team setup, I think it’s fair to note that having 3 zerks and 2 celestials is the best and highest reward based comp in the game. And as the strongest classes break down to and the generally known required classes to have, 2 zerk and a celestial are already on the team. So basically, between Cele Engi, Cele Ele, Zerk Mesmer, and Zerk Necro there has to be the perfect mix of classes to provide the strongest team. And looking at counters and who beats who with the most success, the best Mesmer in the world beats the best power necro in 1v1’s and single target damage which is the current meta strategy, focus damage. Similar to that, the engineer actually provides damage onto the opponent and doesn’t simply out last them and in a 1v1 with cele ele, it just depends who messes up the least and the class that hits the mistakes harder is a celestial engineer.
Based on both of these thoughts on what class can focus the hardest and what class can truly pack the biggest punch for your team while not being downstate food, a Mesmer and a celestial engineer needs to be on your team to have the utmost success in this meta. If there is a close relationship between the zerk players, there can be 100-0ing all over the map and a great success for the teams to have as shown on the Abjured vs LPBW game as the thief on Abjured got 100-0 due to coordinated burst.
Overall this tournament was an awesome reminder of the uniqueness that each team has and the issues they can fix and also the new things they can present. Obviously this is completely in my opinion during the analysis stage but general trends don’t lie very much either though. I can’t wait to see these teams work together, practice, and meet up for the next WTS tournament to match up against Abjured and knock the crown off the king for some crazy amount of weeks.

If anyone wants to discuss this information my in game tag is to the left of this post and feel free to mail me in game if I need to clarify something or if you simply want to discuss!

Abjured had a medi guard, a power necro, and a s/d thief or panic strike? and still won?

EU seems way more interesting in terms of competition.

Eurantien.4632:

Abjured had a medi guard, a power necro, and a s/d thief or panic strike? and still won?

Although they had that, they did struggle against teams that held the mesmer surprise so I do feel a mesmer will be the way a team beats abjured. Simply put as i’ve stated before, a team that formed about 2 weeks ago was able to put 260 on abjured on Niflnel LPBW and they had a mesmer due to the fact a mesmer can rekt a celestial and zerk just as equally kitten a zerk class if played cautiously.

Very fun read. Thanks for compiling all of this!

This was very interesting ty op.

I enjoyed reading your post and honostly kinda wished you carried on with the writing.

Thanks!

Good read Slin, thanks buddy

See you in game

Yawn same crap. 5 in the finals out of 10 players used celestial? Can’t wait for HoT.

brannigan.9831:

Yawn same crap. 5 in the finals out of 10 players used celestial? Can’t wait for HoT.

And the other 5 used Zerkers, but that is ok b/c….?

@Slininstien I really enjoyed your synopsis. One thing I think should be noted. The changes the Abjured made since the WTS is very obvious. (IE a Phanta on Medi and no DD eles)

The biggest thing to note is what Nos did in I believe one of the matches. He ran a different amulet. He ran soldiers. Power necros are not always beserk anymore. A smart power necro looks at the opposite team comp and adjusts for it. If I am up against a team with mediguards and shoutbow warriors (as i main a necro) or lots of mesmers I will run a very tanky power necro and just work the pressure angle of our class. Our wells and DS still do excellent damage and makes a good sustain so that we are not focused down in a few seconds. The biggest challenge to necro is not the damage but the survival.

Often people miss this factor and think “Power Necro is so easy I destroy everything” No, when you get up against a team that knows what they are doing, Power necro is all about survival while still applying pressure. You don’t get to block, or disengage.

Thanks for sharing this!

An EU Analysis would also be interesting.

I’m surprised that no one commented yet on the move to using sigils of bloodlust to up the burst over using sigils of air/fire.

Thiefz.3695:

An EU Analysis would also be interesting.

I’m surprised that no one commented yet on the move to using sigils of bloodlust to up the burst over using sigils of air/fire.

I noticed that to, but I want to say the reason may possibly lie in people finding this as a non-skilled bit of play. Which means perhaps in the end it will be nerfed. But who knows.

I would love to see an EU analyzation as I watched that to.

I think it’s interesting that the meta has evolved further into how to counter the burst by using portal. Rather than going with tankier builds, it’s saying “How can we keep our DPS but also get our people out to heal.” The answer some people chose was mesmer portal. Then you have the use of stealth to create burst potential and to remove players from burst. The banner is also the must have rather than going with guardian rez. I think the only way to change the meta would be to reverse the question and say, “Can we build to negate the burst?”.

Awesome post! #IWoudn’tNeed15CharsDarnitIfIHadALikeButton

Thiefz.3695:

I think it’s interesting that the meta has evolved further into how to counter the burst by using portal. Rather than going with tankier builds, it’s saying “How can we keep our DPS but also get our people out to heal.” The answer some people chose was mesmer portal. Then you have the use of stealth to create burst potential and to remove players from burst. The banner is also the must have rather than going with guardian rez. I think the only way to change the meta would be to reverse the question and say, “Can we build to negate the burst?”.

Im so glad this kind of discussion has started to become more prevalent in recent days. Itd be interesting to see a team tackle that reverse question of “Can we build to negate the burst?” head on and actually gain some traction with it.

Any comment about the lack of ranger?
Your post mentioned about every single classes but no ranger at all.
Are they truly unviable in serious SPVP according to your opinion?
Do you think a Meta that one class is completely not needed/wanted is acceptable?
Do you agree or disagree the low tier casual players claiming ranger is “fine”?

If you’re from those Top 8 teams of ToL 3, I would like to hear your comment and thought too.

Aomine.5012:

Any comment about the lack of ranger?
Your post mentioned about various classes but no ranger at all.
Are they truly unviable in serious SPVP according to your opinion?
Do you think a Meta that one class is completely not needed is acceptable?
Do you agree or disagree the low tier casual players claiming ranger is “fine”?

Ranger isn’t unviable at top tier play, we can take a look at the last WTS to see that. Is ranger weaker than others that fill the same role? Yes. Can teams build around a ranger? Yes. Have any really tried to do this? Not really, they just take out their rectangle piece of a thief and shove a square in that rectangle hole, its not a perfect fit but it can work to fill most of the void. The issue is those teams haven’t looked at the bigger picture, maybe the square is the right piece but its just being played on the wrong board. Changing the board could mean an entire team comp change, something removed from the standard 3 cele 2 zerker, or maybe just a pure balance change to either change the square so it fits better or open up the square hole.

I think that a whole class not being needed… isn’t acceptable. I don’t think that is the case however, I know ranger doesn’t really provide anything to give it an edge but it can be used. Slight balance tweaks are all that is needed to really open up the options. The truth is, nothing should ever be needed, and it would be great to see a variety of team comps and play styles once again. Hopefully this is what HoT will bring us.

I don’t agree with “casuals” I feel PvP games should be balanced around high end PvP because thats where players progress towards no skill -> more skill. Players can learn, PvE can be balanced through NPC mechanics and environmental effects. To say ranger is “fine” or “OP” simply means “I don’t know how to play this game well”.

I missed something in my earlier post. You can counter the burst with Warhorn 5, Engineer Nades 5, and thief shortbow 4 because those are AOE weakness. Also, if you look at the meta, it fits. Now what happens when Nade 5 no longer makes a poison field, I don’t know. Engineers will still be in a good spot but now you only have 2 AOE weakness classes. Look at the Revenant, it has blasts, aoe weakness, and area protection. So it may find a place in the anti burst meta. However this is all theory craft.

The ranger and Necro are low tier classes and until they receive some slight love will never enter the ranks of high teir PVP, or will require the team to build around or support these two classes. All the other classes have numerous combinations of multiple heals, condi clears, group condi clears, stability, group stability, blocks, evades, invulnerability, stealth or group stealth that not only aids their team but still allows them to dish out a ton of damage to the opposing team. So the combination of high survivability with being able to maintain high dmg output makes these classes more desireable in comparrison to classes that have decent dmg output coupled with lessor survivability and little to no group buffs. With regard to the necro, survivability is simply not there unless you count plague form, and their damage output is slightly less than some of the top tier classes (it’s even more so less when the necro is forced into taking a soldier amulet to survive focus fire as the necro is easily focused and taken out due to lack of stability and defense). In addition the necro has one build, as the terrormancer is useless in a meta where every group member has several condi clears coupled with classes running multiple condi clears for their group. This meta also restricts the ranger class to a power build in group fights because condi ranger gets cleared just as fast as a condi necro, despite its ability to ramp up bleeds quickly. Thus necro/ranger are used less frequently because they bring little overall benefit in comparrison. Yes we saw one necro who is quite talented and has a team he works well with in the tourn, who was pushed to using a soldiers amulet to survived which likely killed his dmg output. They still did well, but I think it further demonstrated that a necro has to sacrifice a lot to survive at the expense of dmg, whereas the mechanics of other classes allow full zerker or full cele builds while being able to survive and dish out data.

I would like to see that team matched against the eu tourn champs

For my own curiosity, how often did teams push far on the openers?

A lot of the burst comps go for the one shot kill at the start of the game. It’s kind of a guessing game where they’re going to go as people try to play somewhat safe while still working towards the point. Far points openers are fairly common, but not the same sort of “send a cele ammy there to hold it” as was common previously.

Havent checked the forums for awhile, thanks guys! Awesome positive feedback ,I’ll probably write one for NA and maybe EU depending how much time i have after and how excited i am to play the game after the WTS things.

Great writeup, but each tourney sadly just reminds me of how poorly designed many things still are in PvP. I know Anet is aware of it, and they’ve admitted they don’t have many resources dedicated to PvP, but .. It’s just so sad. I want it to be better because I know it can be.

I hoped OE would be able to create a team that is able to challenge abjured. But at the moment no team can. I agree that the final did not hold up to the hope of the viewers