Guild Wars 2

Notice I said “Changing” and not necessarily “nerfing”. The fact of the matter is that game play suffers with the sustain builds currently implemented. Yes, the game play also suffered in the instagib patches of yesteryear. This isnt a black and white debate between all damage vs all sustain, this is my thoughts on how the current meta has far too much sustain. It does not mean that I want it to go back to the insta-gib play. It simply means that sustain in many instances needs to be taken down a few notches.

Also, whether something is meta or not does not necessarily mean that it is fun or not fun to play as or against.

id like to look at some builds/classes that to me are not as fun to play against, whether I win them or not.

1. DH -even if u can take a DH down, it doesn’t make it a fun process. The invulns, blocks, heals, bubbles just make it absolutely boring to fight. Dh is not in high level play atm. Why not make them better for high level play while at the same time make them less annoying to kill?

Their Damage can be super cheesy although avoidable. But on conquest with small points, its annoying, even if u can beat them.

2. Druid- one good thing about fighting a druid is it can be focused down easier than DH or Engineer. Still its healing capabilities make it quite annoying to fight 1v1. Though it is susceptible to cc, it doesn’t count enough to lock them down sometimes. If u can lock down a druid or time to interrupt a heal, you should have a good chance against them, but I feel that isn’t the case not nearly enough.

3. Engineer- To many get out of jail free cards. Yet they really don’t do to much damage typically. I see them as kinda of passive support. Not very fun to play against. You could sit there forever on point with an engineer. Why not throw a couple well placed hard cc at them and win by outplaying them? Shouldn’t this be possible? But its not in many cases.

There is more sustain types, but This is what I notice to be the biggest annoyance. Ele can be up there as well but i feel it is more situational when it becomes annoying to fight against.

The problem is simple: Some classes and/or builds are too good at healing up to full health over and over again. The solution to this, however is not as clear. I think what any reasonable person wants is for every class to be able to beat every other class in a 1v1 while still maintaining class diversity and more offensive or defensive builds.

Now i dont always think it would be wise for a glass canon to take the time to defeat a more bunker build, as it should take longer to kill such enemies. But to know that he could if he HAD TO.

And in nearly every other game genre you will find that defensive builds can kill offensive and vise versa. In history it is proven. In logic it is proven. Why cant we have this?

block block block dodge dodge miss miss inv inv mobile heal heal block block block dodge dodge mobile inv inv miss miss heal heal block block ……… this game mode i have never see….

We can see:
The new player do not have any chance for this game. They just a toys for veteran…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dWZ9lkbK_2U

Player do same build and effective rotations like a robot….
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l56_6ilaY_k

Damage out of control because less touch time….
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AeWtUkr-1MA&feature=youtu.be

They should think:
WHY people leave GW2?
WHY player base cannot grown up?
WHY viewers of ESL and WTS is less and going decrease?

I sure one thing. HoT and Raid gave GW2 a deadly backstab.

Cobrakon.3108:

Notice I said “Changing” and not necessarily “nerfing”. The fact of the matter is that game play suffers with the sustain builds currently implemented. Yes, the game play also suffered in the instagib patches of yesteryear. This isnt a black and white debate between all damage vs all sustain, this is my thoughts on how the current meta has far too much sustain. It does not mean that I want it to go back to the insta-gib play. It simply means that sustain in many instances needs to be taken down a few notches.

Also, whether something is meta or not does not necessarily mean that it is fun or not fun to play as or against.

id like to look at some builds/classes that to me are not as fun to play against, whether I win them or not.

1. DH -even if u can take a DH down, it doesn’t make it a fun process. The invulns, blocks, heals, bubbles just make it absolutely boring to fight. Dh is not in high level play atm. Why not make them better for high level play while at the same time make them less annoying to kill?

Their Damage can be super cheesy although avoidable. But on conquest with small points, its annoying, even if u can beat them.

2. Druid- one good thing about fighting a druid is it can be focused down easier than DH or Engineer. Still its healing capabilities make it quite annoying to fight 1v1. Though it is susceptible to cc, it doesn’t count enough to lock them down sometimes. If u can lock down a druid or time to interrupt a heal, you should have a good chance against them, but I feel that isn’t the case not nearly enough.

3. Engineer- To many get out of jail free cards. Yet they really don’t do to much damage typically. I see them as kinda of passive support. Not very fun to play against. You could sit there forever on point with an engineer. Why not throw a couple well placed hard cc at them and win by outplaying them? Shouldn’t this be possible? But its not in many cases.

There is more sustain types, but This is what I notice to be the biggest annoyance. Ele can be up there as well but i feel it is more situational when it becomes annoying to fight against.

The problem is simple: Some classes and/or builds are too good at healing up to full health over and over again. The solution to this, however is not as clear. I think what any reasonable person wants is for every class to be able to beat every other class in a 1v1 while still maintaining class diversity and more offensive or defensive builds.

Now i dont always think it would be wise for a glass canon to take the time to defeat a more bunker build, as it should take longer to kill such enemies. But to know that he could if he HAD TO.

And in nearly every other game genre you will find that defensive builds can kill offensive and vise versa. In history it is proven. In logic it is proven. Why cant we have this?

The benchmark for burst/dps build is Fresh air anything else is vastly OP, whichever you play …it’s OP..period, coming here complaining about other OP specs…only show your bias.

What class do you play? Thief? Rev?Warrior?mesmer?…….They’re just a notch less OP than the classes you mention..but still OP

Yes guild wars 2 pvp can be very frustrating. Some professions/builds can carry bad players by default (low risk high reward) if skilled players play professions/build that can carry the player by default it can makes some bad frustration at players. So professions with good sustain and mobility is overpowered and very frustrating in hands of skilled players. Even if you can beat them ,the fight last for 4-5mins etc. very boring and it shouldn’t be like this or you get frustrated you fight for 4-5 mins, getting bored with that stupid kite kite heal inv block dodge evade miss heal kite kite guy is not dying and die in the end after 4-5 mins of boring fight. Btw, soon most people will only play dh ,engineer, druid, revenant for pvp.

Rolisteel.1375:

Btw, soon most people will only play dh ,engineer, druid, revenant for pvp.

This is fine. I can run a train over all these classes with mesmer.

Supreme.3164:

Cobrakon.3108:

Notice I said “Changing” and not necessarily “nerfing”. The fact of the matter is that game play suffers with the sustain builds currently implemented. Yes, the game play also suffered in the instagib patches of yesteryear. This isnt a black and white debate between all damage vs all sustain, this is my thoughts on how the current meta has far too much sustain. It does not mean that I want it to go back to the insta-gib play. It simply means that sustain in many instances needs to be taken down a few notches.

Also, whether something is meta or not does not necessarily mean that it is fun or not fun to play as or against.

id like to look at some builds/classes that to me are not as fun to play against, whether I win them or not.

1. DH -even if u can take a DH down, it doesn’t make it a fun process. The invulns, blocks, heals, bubbles just make it absolutely boring to fight. Dh is not in high level play atm. Why not make them better for high level play while at the same time make them less annoying to kill?

Their Damage can be super cheesy although avoidable. But on conquest with small points, its annoying, even if u can beat them.

2. Druid- one good thing about fighting a druid is it can be focused down easier than DH or Engineer. Still its healing capabilities make it quite annoying to fight 1v1. Though it is susceptible to cc, it doesn’t count enough to lock them down sometimes. If u can lock down a druid or time to interrupt a heal, you should have a good chance against them, but I feel that isn’t the case not nearly enough.

3. Engineer- To many get out of jail free cards. Yet they really don’t do to much damage typically. I see them as kinda of passive support. Not very fun to play against. You could sit there forever on point with an engineer. Why not throw a couple well placed hard cc at them and win by outplaying them? Shouldn’t this be possible? But its not in many cases.

There is more sustain types, but This is what I notice to be the biggest annoyance. Ele can be up there as well but i feel it is more situational when it becomes annoying to fight against.

The problem is simple: Some classes and/or builds are too good at healing up to full health over and over again. The solution to this, however is not as clear. I think what any reasonable person wants is for every class to be able to beat every other class in a 1v1 while still maintaining class diversity and more offensive or defensive builds.

Now i dont always think it would be wise for a glass canon to take the time to defeat a more bunker build, as it should take longer to kill such enemies. But to know that he could if he HAD TO.

And in nearly every other game genre you will find that defensive builds can kill offensive and vise versa. In history it is proven. In logic it is proven. Why cant we have this?

The benchmark for burst/dps build is Fresh air anything else is vastly OP, whichever you play …it’s OP..period, coming here complaining about other OP specs…only show your bias.

What class do you play? Thief? Rev?Warrior?mesmer?…….They’re just a notch less OP than the classes you mention..but still OP

Umm I play more than one class and right now I am playing Druid the most lol. Notice I mentioned Druid in there. Way to fail at guessing. You shouldn’t be so quick to judge.
But what makes you so DEFENSIVE I wonder? Please, don’t be PASSIVE, prove to me that your argument is INVULNERABLE.

Also notice that I used the word “CHANGE” not “NERF”.

Please read a bit more carefully next time.

Supreme.3164

The benchmark for burst/dps build is Fresh air anything else is vastly OP, whichever you play …it’s OP..period, coming here complaining about other OP specs…only show your bias.

So wait the benchmark for “balanced” is a gimmick build that wasn’t even viable pre-HoT?

Might as well balance the game around p/p thieves.

I guess OP just wants a burstier meta? I imagine the people who think the meta is already too bursty will vastly disagree with you OP.

Thought op was saying he doesn’t like bruiser meta.

I don’t see DH as particularly hard to kill. Shield of Courage is on a long timer so lets not exaggerate the blocking. I do feel like the heal trap could use some tuning however.

I feel as though the Specializations need to be changed so that you can either:

A: Be OK at a bunch of things but not very good at any of them.

B: Specialized in one specific role.

What we have right now is:

C: Be good at dealing damage, sustaining yourself, and in some cases offering team support.

I love being able to come up with Unique builds, but the current way Specializations (all, not just elite) are they basically hamstring you into picking the best ones because the alternatives are just flat out weaker.

Not only that, several of the new weapons from HoT are just flat out better than vanilla weapons instead of just opening up new ways to play. Why would you ever not want to use Shield on Mesmer? Why use Rifle with hammer can give my Engi good damage and sustain?

Every class needs to have their power scaled back. Many, many traits and weapon skills have too many effects. If something is going to have more than one effect, then they should all be weak effects that are made to complement another trait (for example Heavy Armor Exploit and Invigorating Speed). Rev Staff 5 is a great example of a skill doing too many things. It does good damage, has CC, it’s a movement skill, and it evades.

I feel like the HoT weapon creep is because they wanted to give the skills the functionality of other weapons while keeping them unique. In some cases the design might need to change but in others simply toning back one of the effects would do.

The game was far more interesting to me when it was a bit slower paced. There was more timing required, now you have your rotation and you just throw it out at most levels of the game.

The only time I haven’t been able to kill one of these classes is when I was playing one of them myself. I remember playing symbolic guard against an engi. That duel took place in the far point, and it lasted more than 5 minutes. Neither of us got anywhere. I couldn’t pin the engi down in my symbols, and the engi had no way of interrupting my heals.

To ask that every class should be able to beat other classes in the game, is to not understand that they already can. The problem is, the build that beats one, is not necessarily good for fighting another, and players as a general rule, go for builds that can beat a wide variety of other builds rather than just one or two. That is why certain builds are chosen over others.

So you ask for sustain to be nerfed but you should acknowledge that there are classes that counter sustain already. Like Necro and Mesmer, even Condi thief. So, does sustain need tweaking or do we just need to learn to play the builds that counter it?

I have a feeling the claims of 4-5 minute fights are more like 30 seconds. For me, I like longer fights and despise burst meta’s. If anything is uninteresting and not fun it’s burst meta’s.

The balance is actually pretty good right now. Warrior can actually use a DPS toning down. Ele needs to be narrowed down in role a bit, it has too much of everything. Perma Evade Thief needs to lose either it’s heal or it’s condi clear on evade. Everything else is ok right now.

Balance is far from good. Some classes are too good at everything. Sustain,mobility,+high damage/burst. While some have god mode sustain with moderate damage.

What you think about necro being only mediocre? Necros job: Run with team→ drop some marks → die → respawn. Necromancers die way too much. Thats not what i can call pretty good and balanced. Most of the time i play necro so i write necro viewpoint.

I think the problem isn’t any specific class. It’s class stacking.

One DH on the enemy team ( if my side has none ) is doable. 3 DH on the other team makes for a probable loss and a miserable match.

The same is true of every other class. 3 or 4 thieves on the enemy team is a probable loss for my side. That is, assuming they are able players.

2 or 3 Necros together is hell on wheels. The condi tidal wave will wipe a team fast.

I could go on, but the point is that the classes are all so strong that a stack of any given class is a serious advantage.

A seconday problem is that heavy armor carries no real penalty. Warriors often move faster than my Mesmer. Hell, even some guardians can keep up. Plus they get armor sustain and dps. The whole theory of wearing light armor is that it allows kiting around the tanks.

Sustain/revive meta is boring. People who don’t multiclass and hardcore defend/spew falsehoods about their “main” are also really unhealthy for balance.