Guild Wars 2

Death in seconds, is that supposed to be “fun”.

Burst damage in this game needs to be cut wayyyyyyyy down. At this point its just Burst wars. there is absolutely no stratagy to it at all just a race for who can burst who.

I just dont see how getting killed before you even know your being attacked is working as intended and if so i guess this isnt for me.

go ahead and flame away but deep down you know something is wrong.

jadjay.8701:

Death in seconds, is that supposed to be “fun”.

Burst damage in this game needs to be cut wayyyyyyyy down. At this point its just Burst wars. there is absolutely no stratagy to it at all just a race for who can burst who.

I just dont see how getting killed before you even know your being attacked is working as intended and if so i guess this isnt for me.

go ahead and flame away but deep down you know something is wrong.

I prefer it, it’s kind of a nice mix and match between the speed of FPS style games with an MMO. WoW was always way too slow and gear based, and this game squashes both of those things.

I prefer quick battles rather than long, drawn out fights of attrition.
If burst gets cut too much, then all you’ll see are bunkers or condition classes.

Also, and I know this has been said a million times, grab a stunbreak and some toughness if you don’t want to die to instagib combos.

“But I shouldnt be forced to build around one specific build that’s stupid blah blah blah”
That burst class is throwing everything they have into killin you. The least you could do is give up one slot for a stunbreak.

I’m not flaming you, and I know it isn’t fun to die instantly, but there are ways to prevent it.

You dont need defencive gear to survive. Some traits give that, like warriors block on 25%, thiefs stealth on 25% eles shield, mesmers got sth too if i remember good, guardians are naturaly tanky, engineers got potion S on some hp % if i know it good, necros got death shround and s on

I’m also a fan of the current speed of the fights. A nice mix between tanks and class cannons.

Thats a lot better than getting killed by a headshot from a sniper and a lot better that fighting a 20-45min Match against a Healer+DD Combo in a 2v2 arena.

yeah its fine, its only really a problem if your laggy since it adds an extra 1sec or so to your reaction time. which it has been recently all the time. not sure if thats my fault or what lol..

jadjay.8701:

Death in seconds, is that supposed to be “fun”.

Burst damage in this game needs to be cut wayyyyyyyy down. At this point its just Burst wars. there is absolutely no stratagy to it at all just a race for who can burst who.

I just dont see how getting killed before you even know your being attacked is working as intended and if so i guess this isnt for me.

go ahead and flame away but deep down you know something is wrong.

I prefer this style. I really dislike it when they give everybody more health and armor and lower damage outputs just so the fights last a long time. Damage HAS to be high enough that a burst build can kill you before your teammates can run all the way across the map and support you. Besides if you’ve got a problem with the bursty nature of the game I suggest playing something that’s not a glass cannon.

Yeah I’m not a fan of super short TTK’s, otherwise I would be playing FPS’s.

I was hoping this game would’ve avoided that a bit better, and unfortunately I’m not sure it will change because of downed state. Downed state is sort of the “excuse” for having low TTK, even more PvE as well, one shot mechanics are “balanced” with downed state even though it’s not anymore difficult or interesting/fun.

I’d personally rather have downed state removed, have TTK be increased and have the actual combat made a bit deeper in terms of strategy/skill.

I find actual combat more fun than “who can down/rally/stability/strip/cc each other first”.

Just my opinion however.

Zunhar.4079:

I prefer quick battles rather than long, drawn out fights of attrition.
If burst gets cut too much, then all you’ll see are bunkers or condition classes.

Also, and I know this has been said a million times, grab a stunbreak and some toughness if you don’t want to die to instagib combos.

“But I shouldnt be forced to build around one specific build that’s stupid blah blah blah”
That burst class is throwing everything they have into killin you. The least you could do is give up one slot for a stunbreak.

I’m not flaming you, and I know it isn’t fun to die instantly, but there are ways to prevent it.

Yeah, believe me I’m not a fan of the bunker vs bunker never die kitten a-thon. But it’s 2 opposite extremes and I would like the game to be brought more toward the middle of the two.

I find battles in GW2 last about as long as battles in most fighting games I play, which I feel is a good balance. I generally build to adaquitly survive so I never go down in a suddenly. I think people who go down in a flash were for the most part in a mismatch. They weren’t prepared to deal with thier opponent, so they lost badly.

I feel like the extreme burst and extreme bunker is too much in this game – eg: bs burst thief, mesmer stun burst, ele healing bunker. For me, fight durations in the range of about 10-20 sec’s would be perfect. At the moment though you have some 2 sec fights, and some which never end. If they can reign in super burst and super bunker i think they’ll have a great game on their hands. If not….. weeeeeellll the exodus shall continue?

I agree, the burst needs to be toned down. Diminishing returns on stats are a possible solution.

There’s no room for fun or skilled play when TTK is this short. I would much rather have 10-20 second battles than the current see who bursts the fastest wins.

The current state of things makes condition damage even more useless. whats the point in condition specs when they are dead before the stacks are up?

In this thread: Guy complains that he gets bursted down, likely due to completely foregoing the use of proper build and at least one stunbreaker/defensive utility, thinking that high toughness should ensure his success against an indeterminate amount of enemy glass cannons.

/thread.

Nimraphel.7819:

In this thread: Guy complains that he gets bursted down, likely due to completely foregoing the use of proper build and at least one stunbreaker/defensive utility, thinking that high toughness should ensure his success against an indeterminate amount of enemy glass cannons.

/thread.

the proper build? tell me what is a mesmer proper build to use on tournamnets? anyone know is the shatter build with berserker amulet. yu can die in less 2 s against a thief but id by far the best build to kill them, if you put a soldier amulet you will die for a good thief for sure because you will mitigate a bit more damage and have more vit but your damage will be o low that you will end die for a thief.

stun breaks? some are pretty much useless, anything that dont give you block/invulnerability/teleport will not prevent you from escape burst damage. for example mesmer decoy dont do much as a BS, because you need use decoy and dodge after it to escape insane burst damage.

blink is much better compared decoy but why do you think almost any mesmer on tournaments use decoy? you need something to rest call target on you and decoy inst use much as BS but as a defensive skill, you see for example a thief going tealth you enter stealth too. decoy many times are use as offensive skills, for example you see a thief but he didnt see you you use decoy go near him and do the mesmer combo and he will die.

because you have only 3 utility skills and you are a mesmer you MUST have portal, so only left 2 utility skills. you need something to remove conditions and give team support so you need to have null field, only left 1 utility skill. decoy or blink, as i said for some reason most of mesmer use decoy instead blink for some reason

so nope, your theory about use a proper build to avoid insane burst isnt possible on this game since most of classes only have 1 great build.

be able to kill anyone with 1-2s is just stupid on this game, on other hand you have classes that will last forever on 1vs1.

i still play the game (pvp only) and i think if arennaet change lot of things we will get a amazing pvp game (love combat system)but those things are taking to much and almost all pvp playerbase already left game.

btw the cam is still having lot of problems and is the most important fact that make some fights very confused, camera on this game is just stange

they need change things on pvp and need to be quick

possante.8310:

stun breaks? some are pretty much useless, anything that dont give you block/invulnerability/teleport will not prevent you from escape burst damage.

Then it’s a good thing any mesmer worth their salt will have 4s distortion and 2s Blurred Frenzy back-to-back don’t ya think? Or Phased Retreat or blink or decoy or shatter-daze or…

possante.8310:

you use decoy go near him and do the mesmer combo and he will die.

Context and your position considered, this is pretty rich.

possante.8310:

so nope, your theory about use a proper build to avoid insane burst isnt possible on this game since most of classes only have 1 great build.

Wow. Just wow. I can name several Guardian builds, engineer builds, elementalist builds, Thief builds, Necromancer builds… that are all viable. Arguably Ranger and Mesmer has slight variety options as well, though I’ll concede the point that they’re currently nudged towards certain builds. Saying most classes only have one viable build is factually wrong when you consider the deviations amongst the competitive playerbase.

Agree with OP, burst in this game is too high, TTK too short. My most memorable fights are the slightly drawn out ones. I mean I’ve been on the giving end of “insta-gib” kills as well, it feels good for a bit, but its kind of lame. Usually the enemy just has no chance and is dead. Whoopi-do. That feels more like a gear-based game mechanic when you can pawn undergeared players.

BTW, one poster said only 1% of the initial player base is left doing pvp. Is that really true? How could he know that?

Fellknight.4820:

I was a big fan of GW1 which is why I’m still here hoping beyond hope that Dev’s will wake up and correct it.

Im sorry but didnt assasins spike as hard in gw1 exept some tanks which arent burstable in here too.

watch from 45 seconds. You see assasin spike people in 1-2 seconds.

Stin.9781:

Fellknight.4820:

I was a big fan of GW1 which is why I’m still here hoping beyond hope that Dev’s will wake up and correct it.

Im sorry but didnt assasins spike as hard in gw1 exept some tanks which arent burstable in here too.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PzCZVIqsguU

watch from 45 seconds. You see assasin spike people in 1-2 seconds.

Yea but in that game you had monks……. Burst damage is countered by burst healing/shields. There’s alot less “active” support in gw2. How many times have you seen a thief pop out of nowhere and intiate a steal/cnd/backstab/hs/hs/hs combo on a teammate and been unable to stop him and/or save your teammate in time, only to watch him either run away after or stealth + stomp him…..

I’m not saying i’m against the burst damage in this game; I actually prefer quick fights compared to the long, drawn-out endurance matches that wow pvp was, but you can’t compared gw1 and gw2 pvp, they are not in anyway similiar.

Yes, but in here, there is more self healing, and dodges, which are semi counter to burst builds. Anyhow i like this pace which is action rpg, where your relfexes and personal skill can save you from trouble way better then your passive defences and armor.

I was hoping PvP would play out more like LoL. Sadly it’s the same thing. Smite looks like it will be fun though.

Lol, was more about team composition and farming ingame where not personal skills but how well your carrys ware allowed to farm. It makes disbalances, as 1 team might have more/less farm. In gw2 you all get same gear, meaning only the outcome of battle is decided by build/skill.
You could say farming takes skill, but there ware heroes better and worse at it.

Yasha.5963:

BTW, one poster said only 1% of the initial player base is left doing pvp. Is that really true? How could he know that?

He has no way of knowing this, he is just pulling it out of his kitten to make his post look more valid. While the hot-joins have cooled down quite some the tournaments are still up and running lively (in EU atleast). Kitten me, the free tournaments is instant popping around/at prime time, and paid tournaments can be instant to minutes depending on if a tournament did just end or just started.

All these “PvP is dead, the GW2 PvP is doomed blah blah blah” is just that, empty words from doomsayers. They should be given as much reliability as the IRL doomsayers.

Stin.9781:

Lol, was more about team composition and farming ingame where not personal skills but how well your carrys ware allowed to farm. It makes disbalances, as 1 team might have more/less farm. In gw2 you all get same gear, meaning only the outcome of battle is decided by build/skill.
You could say farming takes skill, but there ware heroes better and worse at it.

True, but I prefer games where team comps can better be matched. Though you could say that goes directly the champion selection process.

I was more in reference to the ttk. With S3 they are obviously adjusting away from how fast that would happen, even though they’ve already done that multiple times. The gear/leveling of course wouldn’t apply to gw2, but if you look at how interesting the pvp was in gw1 compared to gw2 you can see what I mean. At least I hope I explained it well enough so that you could.

Even a late game adc you would have more time to react than you do here. Just so you know I play bunker guardian, shout warrior, thief (sadly I must admit that’s what I played the most for a long time), and I’m now working on learning mesmer well enough to be competitive (haven’t played in spvp/tpvp because I’m wanting to learn the class well so I don’t screw over my team).

I suppose it’s just my personal play style in that I prefer the pvp from gw1/LoL more than gw2.

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GSSBlunaspike.4153:

Stin.9781:

Lol, was more about team composition and farming ingame where not personal skills but how well your carrys ware allowed to farm. It makes disbalances, as 1 team might have more/less farm. In gw2 you all get same gear, meaning only the outcome of battle is decided by build/skill.
You could say farming takes skill, but there ware heroes better and worse at it.

True, but I prefer games where team comps can better be matched. Though you could say that goes directly the champion selection process.

I was more in reference to the ttk. With S3 they are obviously adjusting away from how fast that would happen, even though they’ve already done that multiple times. The gear/leveling of course wouldn’t apply to gw2, but if you look at how interesting the pvp was in gw1 compared to gw2 you can see what I mean. At least I hope I explained it well enough so that you could.

Even a late game adc you would have more time to react than you do here. Just so you know I play bunker guardian, shout warrior, thief (sadly I must admit that’s what I played the most for a long time), and I’m now working on learning mesmer well enough to be competitive (haven’t played in spvp/tpvp because I’m wanting to learn the class well so I don’t screw over my team).

I suppose it’s just my personal play style in that I prefer the pvp from gw1/LoL more than gw2.

Both GW1 and GW2 are games with low TTK if you failed to react appropriately in the lead-up to a spike. In GW1, that meant your monks noticing the warriors converging on you for a spike and preprotting. In GW2 that means you seeing the warrior bull-charge at you and dodging it (for example). In both games there are certain spikes that aren’t telegraphed, but are much less repeatable. In GW1, that was telespike, and in GW2 it’s telespike again. In both games you have some less-sustainable spike defenses that help to deal with those times you fail to proactively defend or cannot do so(telespike). In GW1, your infuser could infuse. In GW2, you can use a stun breaker or other defensive cool down.

There are some big differences: spikes are more concentrated in GW2 (although this is good for comp and strategic variety; it would be bad if you needed two burst builds to be able to ever kill anything but another burst build). Spike-defense is also mostly self-target, which means that facing multiple burst characters can go badly if you let them successively burst one person. The split focus of the game type also means that 45 second cool down on a telespike isn’t as bad as it was in GW1.

Another huge difference is that in GW2 certain burst characters are also ranged pressure characters (thieves and to perhaps a lesser extent mesmers). Burst and pressure on the same thing isn’t a bad thing necessarily (though GW1 shows that it tends to almost completely dominate bars focused which can do only one), but burst and ranged pressure is problematic because it makes it very difficult to pressure them back. This is problematic since keeping them too low to safely spike someone is one of the few sustainable ways to prevent spikes. This is imo the biggest thing that makes thieves more desirable than warriors. The mobility of infiltrator’s shot is great (especially on Foefire and Kyhlo), but the fact that in team fights (or even 1v1s), the thief can sit back and pewpew in relative safety while the warrior is just as vulnerable when pressuring as when spiking is a huge benefit.

Its hard to measure TTK in this game. I’ve had long drawn out fights were I just end up leaving because we can’t kill each other, and then I’ve had fights end in seconds after i failed to dodge or counter the enemies burst. I think people stack toughness and think they should have enough passive mitigation to survive, but this game isn’t like traditional mmo’s. Active mitigation has a larger presence and fights can last a long time with proper dodging and defensive utility.

I like quick fights. I don’t like, however, when fights end before they start to get fun. Likewise, I like longer, intense fights, but there’s a limit to them, and anything beyond that limit starts to get repetitive and boring.

The extreme burst and the extreme bunker builds in this game push the battles to both extremes, and worse, they are the best counter to each other, making a large amount of possible builds inbetween underpowered.

I agree the TTK is rediculously low, coupled with the fact that it isn’t always easy to see what’s going on makes this game rediculously spammy/bursty.
The fact that you have acces to cooldowns from two weapon sets doesn’t help either, just further encourages blowing all those cooldowns for a quick kill.

I’m going to echo what’s been said here and say that if I wanted to play something with a TTK in line with a shooter I’’d play a shooter where the least you have to do is aim. Here in GW2 you just target and watch the fireworks…

Thus far the most enjoyable fights I’ve had in this game were bunker bunker fights, or at least where both sides were more about sustained dmg. It seems the way skills were balanced to, having no resources only cooldowns…
At least when it fights take a bit longer you can actually figure out what the hell is going on and get some counterplay on.

Every class has sustain and without a low TTK the duels would go on forever. IF you want a very tanky class which can’t die, pick sustain-elementalist.

EDIT: I mean, bunker vs bunker-fights are by far the most boring thing I have ever played. Remindes me of Druid/Warrior vs Priest/Rogue in burning crusade… I don’t even want to know how long a high rated match of druid/warrior vs druid/warrior took.

EDIT2: I have to say a duel between two squishy dagger/dagger thieves are amazing. The whole duel bases around perfectly timed doges and perfectly used teleports. Though every squishy vs squishy is very intense and amazing to play.

Really? You haven’t been two shot in Rift I take it. A duel with another player takes quite a while in GW2.

But a lot of classes drop very fast of focused by more than one person. More survivability options would be nice on some classes.

TTK is very ok i think, the only fast TTK is glass cannon VS glass cannon or 2v1 when 1 of attackers is burst. The average fight for me as a thief is very wide ranged, some backstabs or othr types of burst gives oponents 2-3 seconds sometimes bow fights takes to half a minute, or thief vs thief to first mistake one of us makes.