Guild Wars 2

So, is this intended bug or not? If it is, then fix tooltips. Thanks.

CutePicsHunter.7430:

So, is this intended bug or not? If it is, then fix tooltips. Thanks.

It’s in the definition of invulnerability from the wiki so there you go. Would be a lot of bloat to the tools tips, and I am surprise some of the player base has read them as long as they currently are.

Thank you, but we are talking about the game itself.

It’s not a bug. No player skill in the game prevents condition damage. You’ll have to cleanse them or wear them off. It’s a simple rule so no need to bloat all tooltips with that information.

Tom Gore.4035:

It’s not a bug. No player skill in the game prevents condition damage. You’ll have to cleanse them or wear them off. It’s a simple rule so no need to bloat all tooltips with that information.

Thank you for your opinion, good thing you know that. But it is still seems a bit strange for me that skill which “makes you invulnerable” does not actually make you invulnerable. That’s why I would like to see a fixed tooltip, sir.

Tom Gore.4035:

It’s not a bug. No player skill in the game prevents condition damage. You’ll have to cleanse them or wear them off. It’s a simple rule so no need to bloat all tooltips with that information.

Warrior berserker stance prevents condition damage. Not sure if that’s the only one.

truthishly.9513:

Tom Gore.4035:

It’s not a bug. No player skill in the game prevents condition damage. You’ll have to cleanse them or wear them off. It’s a simple rule so no need to bloat all tooltips with that information.

Warrior berserker stance prevents condition damage. Not sure if that’s the only one.

No it doesn’t. It only reduces condition duration by 100%. If the opponent is running +Condition Duration buffs you are still affected.

CutePicsHunter.7430:

Tom Gore.4035:

It’s not a bug. No player skill in the game prevents condition damage. You’ll have to cleanse them or wear them off. It’s a simple rule so no need to bloat all tooltips with that information.

Thank you for your opinion, good thing you know that. But it is still seems a bit strange for me that skill which “makes you invulnerable” does not actually make you invulnerable. That’s why I would like to see a fixed tooltip, sir.

There are also plenty of effects in the game that will kill you even if you’re “invulnerable”. For example Legendary Defenders in WvW will one shot you through invulnerability, falling damage will still kill you, as will certain Dungeon mechanics.

Should those be included in the tooptips, too?

Tom Gore.4035:

truthishly.9513:

Tom Gore.4035:

It’s not a bug. No player skill in the game prevents condition damage. You’ll have to cleanse them or wear them off. It’s a simple rule so no need to bloat all tooltips with that information.

Warrior berserker stance prevents condition damage. Not sure if that’s the only one.

No it doesn’t. It only reduces condition duration by 100%. If the opponent is running +Condition Duration buffs you are still affected.

It actually makes the warrior immune to newly applied conditions. Conditions that are already on you when you activate berserker stance will last to their full duration unless you do something else about them. Same thing applies to invulnerability.

Tom Gore.4035:

truthishly.9513:

Tom Gore.4035:

It’s not a bug. No player skill in the game prevents condition damage. You’ll have to cleanse them or wear them off. It’s a simple rule so no need to bloat all tooltips with that information.

Warrior berserker stance prevents condition damage. Not sure if that’s the only one.

No it doesn’t. It only reduces condition duration by 100%. If the opponent is running +Condition Duration buffs you are still affected.

There is no Condition Duration buff in PvP, you’re talking about WvW.
Berserker Stance actually makes you immune to new conditions in PvP

Terrorsquad.2349:

Tom Gore.4035:

truthishly.9513:

Tom Gore.4035:

It’s not a bug. No player skill in the game prevents condition damage. You’ll have to cleanse them or wear them off. It’s a simple rule so no need to bloat all tooltips with that information.

Warrior berserker stance prevents condition damage. Not sure if that’s the only one.

No it doesn’t. It only reduces condition duration by 100%. If the opponent is running +Condition Duration buffs you are still affected.

There is no Condition Duration buff in PvP, you’re talking about WvW.
Berserker Stance actually makes you immune to new conditions in PvP

Is that a fact? I mean there are still sigils and runes that increase condition duration. Have you tested running those and trying to apply condis to warrior in Berserker stance?

Could be that it works differently in sPvP than WvW, of course.

To OP: You cannot take any kind of new applied condition/damage on you when you’re Invulnurable.

However, if you already had conditions applied on you before using the invuln skill, the conditions will remain ticking.

Tom Gore.4035:

Terrorsquad.2349:

Tom Gore.4035:

truthishly.9513:

Tom Gore.4035:

It’s not a bug. No player skill in the game prevents condition damage. You’ll have to cleanse them or wear them off. It’s a simple rule so no need to bloat all tooltips with that information.

Warrior berserker stance prevents condition damage. Not sure if that’s the only one.

No it doesn’t. It only reduces condition duration by 100%. If the opponent is running +Condition Duration buffs you are still affected.

There is no Condition Duration buff in PvP, you’re talking about WvW.
Berserker Stance actually makes you immune to new conditions in PvP

Is that a fact? I mean there are still sigils and runes that increase condition duration. Have you tested running those and trying to apply condis to warrior in Berserker stance?

Could be that it works differently in sPvP than WvW, of course.

Berserker Stance covers the whole trait/sigil/rune buffs, too (in PvP)
Sigils + Rune + Trait + original skill duration = 100% (follow Anet mechanics)

Example:

I do have tried this when running Condition Ranger with shortbow (Bleed stacks on auto attack) with rune of the krait (increase bleed duration by 45%!!!) and Sigil of Agony (increases bleed duration by another 20%!!!) and Warrior gets no bleed stacks.

I’m pretty sure even in WvW with 40% food, no conditions can be applied, I think.

If it does, then WvW is pretty broken and kittened up

Acandis.3250:

Tom Gore.4035:

No it doesn’t. It only reduces condition duration by 100%. If the opponent is running +Condition Duration buffs you are still affected.

Now I know we’re not all math majors and numbers are hard, but you should think really hard about what “reduce incoming condition duration by 100%” means. And if you’re still having trouble with that, go back to grade school and review percentages.

I know what you mean. What I don’t know (as I haven’t tested) is how GW2 calculates condition durations.

Is the calculation like DurationX * (DurationIncrease1+DurationIncrease2-DurationDecrease2).

Or like DurationX * (DurationIncrease1+DurationIncrease2) * DurationDecrease2.

I would actually really like to know, because it would make a BIG difference for my Warrior’s WvW build, which has a -93% duration decrease for Chilled, Cripples and Immobilize.

Let’s imagine a necro is running +40% condi duration food and +10% condi duration runes, and casts a 5 second chill, is the end result

a) 5 * (100% + 40% + 10% – 93%) = 5 * 57% = 2,85 seconds

or

b) 5 * (100% + 40% + 10%) * (100% – 93%) = 5 * 150% * 7% = 0,525 seconds.

As you can see there is a HUGE difference.

Anyone done or willing to do the testing?

Terrorsquad.2349:

Tom Gore.4035:

Terrorsquad.2349:

Tom Gore.4035:

truthishly.9513:

Tom Gore.4035:

It’s not a bug. No player skill in the game prevents condition damage. You’ll have to cleanse them or wear them off. It’s a simple rule so no need to bloat all tooltips with that information.

Warrior berserker stance prevents condition damage. Not sure if that’s the only one.

No it doesn’t. It only reduces condition duration by 100%. If the opponent is running +Condition Duration buffs you are still affected.

There is no Condition Duration buff in PvP, you’re talking about WvW.
Berserker Stance actually makes you immune to new conditions in PvP

Is that a fact? I mean there are still sigils and runes that increase condition duration. Have you tested running those and trying to apply condis to warrior in Berserker stance?

Could be that it works differently in sPvP than WvW, of course.

Berserker Stance covers the whole trait/sigil/rune buffs, too (in PvP)
Sigils + Rune + Trait + original skill duration = 100% (follow Anet mechanics)

Example:

I do have tried this when running Condition Ranger with shortbow (Bleed stacks on auto attack) with rune of the krait (increase bleed duration by 45%!!!) and Sigil of Agony (increases bleed duration by another 20%!!!) and Warrior gets no bleed stacks.

I’m pretty sure even in WvW with 40% food, no conditions can be applied, I think.

If it does, then WvW is pretty broken and kittened up

Ok so that answers the question about Berserker Stance. Thanks. What about my other question about other condition reductions? Are they also applied after the whole Condition duration + stacks are calculated?

I’m not sure what you trying to say, berserker stance prevent condition damage from being applied, but previously applied conditions will still tick
[ yes berserker stance does give you immunity to condition, they’ve changed the wording of the description to be less confusing ages ago.]

just like every other invulnerability skills other classes have but those prevent power damage as well.

Tom Gore.4035:

Terrorsquad.2349:

Tom Gore.4035:

Terrorsquad.2349:

Tom Gore.4035:

truthishly.9513:

Tom Gore.4035:

It’s not a bug. No player skill in the game prevents condition damage. You’ll have to cleanse them or wear them off. It’s a simple rule so no need to bloat all tooltips with that information.

Warrior berserker stance prevents condition damage. Not sure if that’s the only one.

No it doesn’t. It only reduces condition duration by 100%. If the opponent is running +Condition Duration buffs you are still affected.

There is no Condition Duration buff in PvP, you’re talking about WvW.
Berserker Stance actually makes you immune to new conditions in PvP

Is that a fact? I mean there are still sigils and runes that increase condition duration. Have you tested running those and trying to apply condis to warrior in Berserker stance?

Could be that it works differently in sPvP than WvW, of course.

Berserker Stance covers the whole trait/sigil/rune buffs, too (in PvP)
Sigils + Rune + Trait + original skill duration = 100% (follow Anet mechanics)

Example:

I do have tried this when running Condition Ranger with shortbow (Bleed stacks on auto attack) with rune of the krait (increase bleed duration by 45%!!!) and Sigil of Agony (increases bleed duration by another 20%!!!) and Warrior gets no bleed stacks.

I’m pretty sure even in WvW with 40% food, no conditions can be applied, I think.

If it does, then WvW is pretty broken and kittened up

Ok so that answers the question about Berserker Stance. Thanks. What about my other question about other condition reductions? Are they also applied after the whole Condition duration + stacks are calculated?

My guess would be yes

i believe the game combines all the modifiers before applying them. example if you have +40% duration and hit someone who has -20% duration, then those two modifiers combine to be +20% duration for that particular effect.

also, berserker stance does not work this way. berserker stance is pure 100% condition immunity (but it doesn’t clear conditions you already have).

Tom Gore.4035:

There are also plenty of effects in the game that will kill you even if you’re “invulnerable”. For example Legendary Defenders in WvW will one shot you through invulnerability, falling damage will still kill you, as will certain Dungeon mechanics.

Should those be included in the tooptips, too?

First of all, this is PvP forum, so WvW and PvE is not related.

Falling damage – yes, here you’re right. That would be pretty interesting if invulnerability made you immune to falling damage too though.

I have to remind that instant death from falling at skyhammer is a good example of bad game design.

hi

• berserker stance provides immunity to condi application, it does not cleanse anything, and anything applied before its use will still tick.
• all duration modifiers are additive. lemongrass cancels koi cakes, it does not do any more or less, like you might think it does if you multiply the effects instead of adding.
• these 2 statements are true of both pvp and wvw.

the tooltip for berserker stance is poorly worded. they need to remove any mention of %s and instead say immunity.

please stahp ignorance and uncertainty in this matter as all situations are well defined.

CutePicsHunter.7430:

I have to remind that instant death from falling at skyhammer is a good example of bad game design.

You mean that “you” feel it is bad design. Because it certainly is not bad design in my opinion. It adds a fun dynamic to the map as I see it.

Your main problem is that you appear to have difficulty comprehending the difference between objective fact and subjective opinion. Nothing is definitively bad simply because you say it is.

Archaon.9524:

truthishly.9513:

Tom Gore.4035:

It’s not a bug. No player skill in the game prevents condition damage. You’ll have to cleanse them or wear them off. It’s a simple rule so no need to bloat all tooltips with that information.

Warrior berserker stance prevents condition damage. Not sure if that’s the only one.

Nope it just prevents new condis and reduces duration of those already on you but you still take damage from condis you had before using it

berserker stance does not have any effect upon ticking conditions. it does not reduce durations. it prevents new applications by making the player immune. thats all it does.

Invulnerability makes you “unhittable”, like an infinite uber-block that’s not a block. So while condi can’t be put on you, any leeches biting into your skin when you put on that armor stay there.

Tom Gore.4035:

Acandis.3250:

Tom Gore.4035:

No it doesn’t. It only reduces condition duration by 100%. If the opponent is running +Condition Duration buffs you are still affected.

Now I know we’re not all math majors and numbers are hard, but you should think really hard about what “reduce incoming condition duration by 100%” means. And if you’re still having trouble with that, go back to grade school and review percentages.

I know what you mean. What I don’t know (as I haven’t tested) is how GW2 calculates condition durations.

Is the calculation like DurationX * (DurationIncrease1+DurationIncrease2-DurationDecrease2).

Or like DurationX * (DurationIncrease1+DurationIncrease2) * DurationDecrease2.

I would actually really like to know, because it would make a BIG difference for my Warrior’s WvW build, which has a -93% duration decrease for Chilled, Cripples and Immobilize.

Let’s imagine a necro is running +40% condi duration food and +10% condi duration runes, and casts a 5 second chill, is the end result

a) 5 * (100% + 40% + 10% – 93%) = 5 * 57% = 2,85 seconds

or

b) 5 * (100% + 40% + 10%) * (100% – 93%) = 5 * 150% * 7% = 0,525 seconds.

As you can see there is a HUGE difference.

Anyone done or willing to do the testing?

Anyone?

Well, it’s a bit obvious it’s answer a.
A 5 second chill can impossibly reduced to 0.5s (reduction of 90%)

It’s quite easy to understand actually, I even never thought about it.

Your Condition Duration gets higher with runes, trait, sigils and food (100% + 30% from traitline + 10% rune + 20% bleed/poison/burn + 40%= 200% is your own Condition Duration)

However, your whole 200% Condition Duration stands for 100% effective amount.

If opponent has -40% food + -33% traited + -20% rune= -93%

Now ofcourse, it’s very obvious it’s not going to be 100% – 93%
It is obvious it’s going to be 200% – 93% = 107% condi duration left

Now if we’re talking about Bers Stance, it covers the whole EFFECTIVE 100%, which means the theoretical 200%

Tom Gore.4035:

truthishly.9513:

Tom Gore.4035:

It’s not a bug. No player skill in the game prevents condition damage. You’ll have to cleanse them or wear them off. It’s a simple rule so no need to bloat all tooltips with that information.

Warrior berserker stance prevents condition damage. Not sure if that’s the only one.

No it doesn’t. It only reduces condition duration by 100%. If the opponent is running +Condition Duration buffs you are still affected.

lel.

Terrorsquad.2349:

Well, it’s a bit obvious it’s answer a.
A 5 second chill can impossibly reduced to 0.5s (reduction of 90%)

It’s quite easy to understand actually, I even never thought about it.

Your Condition Duration gets higher with runes, trait, sigils and food (100% + 30% from traitline + 10% rune + 20% bleed/poison/burn + 40%= 200% is your own Condition Duration)

However, your whole 200% Condition Duration stands for 100% effective amount.

If opponent has -40% food + -33% traited + -20% rune= -93%

Now ofcourse, it’s very obvious it’s not going to be 100% – 93%
It is obvious it’s going to be 200% – 93% = 107% condi duration left

Now if we’re talking about Bers Stance, it covers the whole EFFECTIVE 100%, which means the theoretical 200%

Is it so obvious?

When running on my warrior who has a total of 93% reduction on chilled/crippled and immobilized I’m practically immune to them. So either my enemies are not running +duration food/runes/traits or the system actually does work like (b).

That’s why I asked if anyone has actually tested this.

Tom Gore.4035:

Terrorsquad.2349:

Well, it’s a bit obvious it’s answer a.
A 5 second chill can impossibly reduced to 0.5s (reduction of 90%)

It’s quite easy to understand actually, I even never thought about it.

Your Condition Duration gets higher with runes, trait, sigils and food (100% + 30% from traitline + 10% rune + 20% bleed/poison/burn + 40%= 200% is your own Condition Duration)

However, your whole 200% Condition Duration stands for 100% effective amount.

If opponent has -40% food + -33% traited + -20% rune= -93%

Now ofcourse, it’s very obvious it’s not going to be 100% – 93%
It is obvious it’s going to be 200% – 93% = 107% condi duration left

Now if we’re talking about Bers Stance, it covers the whole EFFECTIVE 100%, which means the theoretical 200%

Is it so obvious?

When running on my warrior who has a total of 93% reduction on chilled/crippled and immobilized I’m practically immune to them. So either my enemies are not running +duration food/runes/traits or the system actually does work like (b).

That’s why I asked if anyone has actually tested this.

It’s actually because… there are no long immobilizes ingame, except ranger’s Elite, which actually works with a pulse or Panic Strike from d/p Thief, which you barely come across in WvW.

Movement influencing conditions is not really a great example, certainly for a warrior because, as you said, they have barely an effect with the trait/food/rune due the lack of condi duration on those conditions.

Rather take poison, burning, bleed, torment as an example
Then you’ll see it’s pretty obvious
OR take another class as example, without the Movement Impending trait

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Condition-duration-vs-Condition-duration/first

zerk stance isn’t an invul tho, so it doesn’t matter. Also how can you bring it up without mentioning “diamond skin”? Also, eles and engies also have movement impeding condition reduction traits (geomancer’s freedom and leg mods). How come no one ever bring them up?

Tom Gore.4035:

Terrorsquad.2349:

Well, it’s a bit obvious it’s answer a.
A 5 second chill can impossibly reduced to 0.5s (reduction of 90%)

It’s quite easy to understand actually, I even never thought about it.

Your Condition Duration gets higher with runes, trait, sigils and food (100% + 30% from traitline + 10% rune + 20% bleed/poison/burn + 40%= 200% is your own Condition Duration)

However, your whole 200% Condition Duration stands for 100% effective amount.

If opponent has -40% food + -33% traited + -20% rune= -93%

Now ofcourse, it’s very obvious it’s not going to be 100% – 93%
It is obvious it’s going to be 200% – 93% = 107% condi duration left

Now if we’re talking about Bers Stance, it covers the whole EFFECTIVE 100%, which means the theoretical 200%

Is it so obvious?

When running on my warrior who has a total of 93% reduction on chilled/crippled and immobilized I’m practically immune to them. So either my enemies are not running +duration food/runes/traits or the system actually does work like (b).

That’s why I asked if anyone has actually tested this.

did you read the thread?

it has been tested, retested by others, and still this question constantly pops up, and the answer is always the same: it is additive. it is not multiplicative.

insanemaniac.2456:

Tom Gore.4035:

Terrorsquad.2349:

Well, it’s a bit obvious it’s answer a.
A 5 second chill can impossibly reduced to 0.5s (reduction of 90%)

It’s quite easy to understand actually, I even never thought about it.

Your Condition Duration gets higher with runes, trait, sigils and food (100% + 30% from traitline + 10% rune + 20% bleed/poison/burn + 40%= 200% is your own Condition Duration)

However, your whole 200% Condition Duration stands for 100% effective amount.

If opponent has -40% food + -33% traited + -20% rune= -93%

Now ofcourse, it’s very obvious it’s not going to be 100% – 93%
It is obvious it’s going to be 200% – 93% = 107% condi duration left

Now if we’re talking about Bers Stance, it covers the whole EFFECTIVE 100%, which means the theoretical 200%

Is it so obvious?

When running on my warrior who has a total of 93% reduction on chilled/crippled and immobilized I’m practically immune to them. So either my enemies are not running +duration food/runes/traits or the system actually does work like (b).

That’s why I asked if anyone has actually tested this.

did you read the thread?

it has been tested, retested by others, and still this question constantly pops up, and the answer is always the same: it is additive. it is not multiplicative.

I did read the thread and nobody showed me real testing evidence until after I kept asking for it. Sorry for not taking the word of random forum posters

Now that the evidence is there, case is closed. I’ll still have to comment though that a baffling amount of the enemies I fight in WvW seems to be running very little if at all +Duration buffs, because I’m still pretty unstoppable (in the sense of not snared/rooted/chilled) there with my warrior. But that’s a problem for them to solve, not me.

Thanks for all who took the time to dig out the testing evidence.

Krisztian.8405:

zerk stance isn’t an invul tho, so it doesn’t matter. Also how can you bring it up without mentioning “diamond skin”? Also, eles and engies also have movement impeding condition reduction traits (geomancer’s freedom and leg mods). How come no one ever bring them up?

How many people actually use them?

Diamond Skin is too binary to bring. You either are invulnerable in a 1v1 against a condition build, or you have a grandmaster trait that is doing nothing. That’s a lot of investment for a very niche situation.

Geomancer’s Freedom and Leg Mods: how often do you see them being brought? In addition, Warriors are often very melee heavy, so the reduction to snares makes more of a noticable difference on them than on the usually ranged (all Engies have range) Engie and Ele. And they get Regeneration as an extra benefit as well, while Eles and Engies don’t.

So, a few reasons, but I rarely see people complain about Dogged March to begin with.