The reason i am posting this is to explain why i think direct damage burst builds are becoming somewhat unplayable in the meta today. I have been playing a lot of PvP lately. Whenever i play a burst build i find that i really cannot do anything against a tankier class which leads to me losing 1v1s and having to rely on my team too much. I just think that now classes have to be able to sustain for themselves. This is why d/p thieves, burst eles and shatter mesmers are rarely played at high level play anymore. Instead you know see thieves playing s/d, mesmers playing staff, and eles playing an s/d hybrid build. Most builds have 30-50 trait points inested in survival trait lines. The only exception to this rule is necro’s probably due to condis being strong and they already have death shroud which is enough.
I just posted on another forum that I thought extreme defensive builds/bunkers is going to be the new meta once this transition ends. We’re starting to move towards a more balanced state not even counting the proposed Oct. 15 changes.
After the Unsuspecting Foe nerf (we can all see it coming, right? it’s definitely coming) bunkers should be able to defend against the FotM stun warriors quite handily, and it’ll kind of settle there, where conditions counter bunkers counter warriors counter conditions.
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my problem tho is that now the meta is filled with builds that are hybrids and can sustain for themselves. Everyone is running more of a 1v1 build than playing a role. I want heavy burst builds and heavy bunker builds to both be viable. As i stated before, a HUGE problem is how tankier builds beat burst builds 1v1 very easily. The fact that this game is based purely around teamfights is a myth because there is no support or anything. Its damage/survivability.
my problem tho is that now the meta is filled with builds that are hybrids and can sustain for themselves. Everyone is running more of a 1v1 build than playing a role. I want heavy burst builds and heavy bunker builds to both be viable. As i stated before, a HUGE problem is how tankier builds beat burst builds 1v1 very easily. The fact that this game is based purely around teamfights is a myth because there is no support or anything. Its damage/survivability.
One of the genius design choices of the game is that a variety of roles are viable. If you’re in solo queue, of course most people will be playing a strong 1v1 build. If you’re in team queue, you can run a 1v1 roamer or backpoint build or you can build for teamfights, either teamfight bunker or pressure or spike damage. You can do any of those even in solo queues as well, but don’t be surprised if people are playing a self-sufficient build in solo queue.
Are you asking for teamfight pressure/spike builds to be able to take on the people who are well-balanced and built for 1v1s?
I don’t think anyone ever said this game is built around teams. They got rid of the class design that forced team-oriented gameplay when they decided not to do the trinity. So yeah, everyone’s built is going to be self-sustaining to an extent. I believe another part of that design is that they didn’t want people minmaxing stats (i.e. full burst).
And like, you can make the argument that defensive builds are minmaxing but it doesn’t really hold since just about every defensive build has at least SOME source of an offensive stat. Like afaik you can’t build healing/vitality/toughness.
I’d love to see more team-oriented gameplay really, but I don’t think it’s going to happen much outside of highly coordinated havoc groups in WvW and competitive PvP teams. I guess we’ll see how their buffs to support go over the next few months.
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I’d love to see more team-oriented gameplay really, but I don’t think it’s going to happen much outside of highly coordinated havoc groups in WvW and competitive PvP teams. I guess we’ll see how their buffs to support go over the next few months.
I guess the old trinity does kind of force pugs to play more as a team, but isn’t it to be expected that coordinated groups (like havoc squads or PvP teams) will play as a team more than uncoordinated groups?
Either way, the self-reliant gameplay was probably the biggest advertising point for the game pre-release. Even in PvE, the mantra was “no more waiting to run an instance until you find a healer for your group.” I guess it just feels to me like you’re asking the devs to reverse design changes they decided on and advertised 3+ years ago.
Well, the thing they were pushing at the time was damage-support-control, right? Damage and control we get a lot of. Support not so much.
I’m not saying there should be dedicated healers or a dedicated healing class. But it’d be nice to be able to work some support into a typical build and not feel like so much has to be sacrificed in order to do it.
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Well, the thing they were pushing at the time was damage-support-control, right? Damage and control we get a lot of. Support not so much.
I’m not saying there should be dedicated healers or a dedicated healing class. But it’d be nice to be able to work some support into a typical build and not feel like so much has to be sacrificed in order to do it.
Fair enough, which is why they’re buffing support skills. But if you’re complaining that you have to sacrifice too much to provide meaningful support, you’ve already switched sides on the “self-sufficient” argument. If you don’t want to have to sacrifice self-sufficiency to give support, don’t complain about self-sufficient builds.
my problem tho is that now the meta is filled with builds that are hybrids and can sustain for themselves. Everyone is running more of a 1v1 build than playing a role. I want heavy burst builds and heavy bunker builds to both be viable
Being able to sustain oneself is better than depending on your/another’s role, especially in a solo join.
After the Unsuspecting Foe nerf (we can all see it coming, right? it’s definitely coming) bunkers should be able to defend against the FotM stun warriors quite handily, and it’ll kind of settle there, where conditions counter bunkers counter warriors counter conditions.
Why is the newest item on the chopping block Unsuspecting Foe (UF)? Warrior is already walking a precarious path as it is. Do you think Warriors would be worthwhile on stuns alone? Without UF the DPS of any stun based build using Soldier gear is laughable. You have less survivability than a Guardian from the start and NOW all you are bringing is a few stuns. Do you really think people would bother bringing Warriors running builds like this if stuns were the ONLY thing they brought?
Builds like this would become fairly worthless if any of its components were to be nerfed too harshly. I accidentally clicked the wrong trait and took Furious Reaction instead of UF and it was a total nightmare. I was smacking guys around and hitting them like a wet noodle. Sure, it set them up to be killed by my teammates but that still wasn’t all that useful.
Warriors are now the middle ground between Guardian and Thief. I can’t hold off multiple foes, and my DPS is worse than a Thieves. It’s the combination of being fairly, tough, fairly damaging, and having stuns is what makes Warriors worthwhile now. Any hit to a part of this balancing act could have the possibility to send Warriors back to being the butt of every PvP joke. Mesmers should want Warriors to stay where they are because the longer they’re around the less conditions users we’ll see and as a result a counter for a Warrior on your team would look rather nice.
Just an angry old man…
Old Man Burr (War), Bad Hat Ben (Engi), Manly Manny Manson (Guard)
as glass canon fight off point, you really shine when you can outnumber a fight, so you get a quick kill -> move somewhere else -> keep outnumbering.
Without this kind of counterpressure you will have a hard time vs good teams since you can´t really sit afk on a point while the enemies have 5 people in the teamfight. Means you take a risk of leaving closepoint free and you might get freecapped, in order to get your node back you need raw dps and not sustain.
You also don´t really allow them to push cause otherwise you destroy them in the teamfight quickly
So glasscanons have their place in the current meta
Pretty sure Warriors can bunker better than Guards. Definitely can’t support like a guard, but definitely a better bunker imo.
No. What makes Guardian’s good bunkers is their access to invulnerability and block in addition to boons like protection. Regen alone isn’t enough to hold out against multiple fores for a long duration. This is especially true when dealing with a lot of focused damage.
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Old Man Burr (War), Bad Hat Ben (Engi), Manly Manny Manson (Guard)
as glass canon fight off point, you really shine when you can outnumber a fight, so you get a quick kill -> move somewhere else -> keep outnumbering.
Without this kind of counterpressure you will have a hard time vs good teams since you can´t really sit afk on a point while the enemies have 5 people in the teamfight. Means you take a risk of leaving closepoint free and you might get freecapped, in order to get your node back you need raw dps and not sustain.
You also don´t really allow them to push cause otherwise you destroy them in the teamfight quickly
So glasscanons have their place in the current meta
I can see Thief or Mesmer glass cannons becoming good. As a Warrior I can say that they can shut me down really fast if I can’t lock them down quickly. In team fights they can be a nightmare.
Just an angry old man…
Old Man Burr (War), Bad Hat Ben (Engi), Manly Manny Manson (Guard)
Pretty sure Warriors can bunker better than Guards. Definitely can’t support like a guard, but definitely a better bunker imo.
No. What makes Guardian’s good bunkers is their access to invulnerability and block in addition to boons like protection. Regen alone isn’t enough to hold out against multiple fores for a long duration. This is especially true when dealing with a lot of focused damage.
Yes. What makes Warriors good bunkers is their access to shield and passive healing and their innate high vitality along with their stances that give them access to all kind of invulnerability (aka receiving no condis or dmg). If necessary they can grab regen with banners and make their passive healing even more potent. By the time a team of 3 can focus fire you down on a warrior, you’ve probably wrecked someone on the opposing team with stuns and or decent sustain. This is especially true when you face good warriors and know anything about the guard’s downfalls.
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Pretty sure Warriors can bunker better than Guards. Definitely can’t support like a guard, but definitely a better bunker imo.
No. What makes Guardian’s good bunkers is their access to invulnerability and block in addition to boons like protection. Regen alone isn’t enough to hold out against multiple fores for a long duration. This is especially true when dealing with a lot of focused damage.
Yes. What makes Warriors good bunkers is their access to shield and passive healing and their innate high vitality along with their stances that give them access to all kind of invulnerability (aka receiving no condis or dmg). If necessary they can grab regen with banners and make their passive healing even more potent. By the time a team of 3 can focus fire you down on a warrior, you’ve probably wrecked someone on the opposing team with stuns and or decent sustain. This is especially true when you face good warriors and know anything about the guard’s downfalls.
What you just described is VERY weak to high pressure. Shield has a brief block on a fairly long CD. Endure pain is good for spikes but only lasts a few seconds on a high cooldown. Zerker Stance has the same problem with having a long cooldown. Banner Regen isn’t that good outside of 1v1’s because as I said no amount of regen and HP is going to last against a coordinated attack. Once those skills you described are gone (not to mention taking Endure, Zerker, and Banner means you’ll either have no stability or you’ll have a trait with a 90-sec CD) you’re not going to last.
I have yet to see a Warrior do the bunker role as well as a Guardian.
Just an angry old man…
Old Man Burr (War), Bad Hat Ben (Engi), Manly Manny Manson (Guard)
You all make good points. I suppose everyone should run self sufficient builds in solo q. But even at high level team play a lot of teams ran all self sufficient builds (such as team Car Crash and basically every EU team).
Fair enough, which is why they’re buffing support skills. But if you’re complaining that you have to sacrifice too much to provide meaningful support, you’ve already switched sides on the “self-sufficient” argument. If you don’t want to have to sacrifice self-sufficiency to give support, don’t complain about self-sufficient builds.
Well currently most control builds can do some damage or support, and many damage builds can do some control or support. Those are still self-sufficient. In order to have enough support to be called a support build, most professions lose the ability to do anything else.
When support becomes strong enough that you can run a few key skills while not sacrificing all ability to damage or control, we’ll be in a good spot.
As for complaining about self-sufficiency, I’m not doing that. I’m just saying it’d be nice to see more teams running builds that may not be self-sufficient, relying on the support of teammates to cover weaknesses. That’s not really a dev thing, that’s a player thing.
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Well currently most control builds can do some damage or support, and many damage builds can do some control or support. Those are still self-sufficient. In order to have enough support to be called a support build, most professions lose the ability to do anything else.
When support becomes strong enough that you can run a few key skills while not sacrificing all ability to damage or control, we’ll be in a good spot.
As for complaining about self-sufficiency, I’m not doing that. I’m just saying it’d be nice to see more teams running builds that may not be self-sufficient, relying on the support of teammates to cover weaknesses. That’s not really a dev thing, that’s a player thing.
Sorry, I got a bit overzealous yeah it would be cool to see some really creative compositions. And yes, really good support skills is a way to help that happen…
I’m noticing a lot of tanky CC builds all over the place, and I have to say it’s not enjoyable to play at this point. I don’t see how anyone can enjoy NOT being able to control your character for 3/4 of a fight.
I can see Thief or Mesmer glass cannons becoming good. As a Warrior I can say that they can shut me down really fast if I can’t lock them down quickly. In team fights they can be a nightmare.
While I can easily see the issue you have with thieves, I am really curious what viable mesmer-build is causing you trouble as warrior?
I find warriors with all their cleansing and regen to be almost unkillable in the viable builds. I have 1 build, that fairs pretty well vs warriors (if they mess up nicely), but that build does suffer in terms in viability. Warriors don’t have to do these kind of compromises, and that is imho what is so wrong about them in their current state.
They have high hp, high toughness (or something else that ensure that they can both survive and/or escape), high burst (on stunned targets), low cd on key abilities (CC fx), and ofc very nice cleansing.
Compare to other classes, and tell me you have to make compromises (see fx mesmers)?
It’s so mind numbing people think playing mace shield longbow hammer or condi build requires any sort of coordination to play effectively. even though you pretty much can role your face over keyboard now with warrior and kill someone or be successful XD (true fact tested it with condi regen build). The skill cap on playing warriors is so kittening low right now. This meta is noob friendly and that’s why the game will never be competitive unless they revert everything back to the burst meta. When the idea on Sotg came up for rangers to have extra F skill the devs said no because “it would be too hard for new players”. That’s how you know they want to cater to the new players and thats not going to end well because once new players really know how kittened up the balance in this game is and they will lose interest as well. Catering to new players will be good for short term but long term they will see the negative effects when there is literally no one in tourneys and hotjoins which is starting to happen.
I can see Thief or Mesmer glass cannons becoming good. As a Warrior I can say that they can shut me down really fast if I can’t lock them down quickly. In team fights they can be a nightmare.
While I can easily see the issue you have with thieves, I am really curious what viable mesmer-build is causing you trouble as warrior?
I find warriors with all their cleansing and regen to be almost unkillable in the viable builds. I have 1 build, that fairs pretty well vs warriors (if they mess up nicely), but that build does suffer in terms in viability. Warriors don’t have to do these kind of compromises, and that is imho what is so wrong about them in their current state.
They have high hp, high toughness (or something else that ensure that they can both survive and/or escape), high burst (on stunned targets), low cd on key abilities (CC fx), and ofc very nice cleansing.
Compare to other classes, and tell me you have to make compromises (see fx mesmers)?
Mesmers have access to enough teleports and stun breaks that hitting a full combo with a Hammer 1v1 or a Skull Crack + 100b is pretty much impossible. Even if you focus on using longbow a smart Mesmer will spread their clones out so that you can’t take them all out. It can be a long fight but unless they screw up they can pretty much avoid fighting putting themselves in danger, if you do catch them they can just pop Distortion. Stuns are pretty much a joke to a Mesmer that’s built right.
I can actually beat even Evade Spam Thieves if I just use the longbow and stand in the combustion shot. Hit them with a few Arching Shots and a Pin Down and they’re done. They can’t stay in the Combustive Shot and if they fall back you’ll just heal up so they either have to be aggressive and risk me switching to Hammer or they play passive and I’ll keep them back with my bow.
Just an angry old man…
Old Man Burr (War), Bad Hat Ben (Engi), Manly Manny Manson (Guard)
I can see Thief or Mesmer glass cannons becoming good. As a Warrior I can say that they can shut me down really fast if I can’t lock them down quickly. In team fights they can be a nightmare.
While I can easily see the issue you have with thieves, I am really curious what viable mesmer-build is causing you trouble as warrior?
I find warriors with all their cleansing and regen to be almost unkillable in the viable builds. I have 1 build, that fairs pretty well vs warriors (if they mess up nicely), but that build does suffer in terms in viability. Warriors don’t have to do these kind of compromises, and that is imho what is so wrong about them in their current state.
They have high hp, high toughness (or something else that ensure that they can both survive and/or escape), high burst (on stunned targets), low cd on key abilities (CC fx), and ofc very nice cleansing.
Compare to other classes, and tell me you have to make compromises (see fx mesmers)?
Mesmers have access to enough teleports and stun breaks that hitting a full combo with a Hammer 1v1 or a Skull Crack + 100b is pretty much impossible. Even if you focus on using longbow a smart Mesmer will spread their clones out so that you can’t take them all out. It can be a long fight but unless they screw up they can pretty much avoid fighting putting themselves in danger, if you do catch them they can just pop Distortion. Stuns are pretty much a joke to a Mesmer that’s built right.
I can actually beat even Evade Spam Thieves if I just use the longbow and stand in the combustion shot. Hit them with a few Arching Shots and a Pin Down and they’re done. They can’t stay in the Combustive Shot and if they fall back you’ll just heal up so they either have to be aggressive and risk me switching to Hammer or they play passive and I’ll keep them back with my bow.
Yes stuns are a joke against a mesmer. But you land your longbow 5 and predict bursts you will win.
Dr. Professor Evil – Engi
Stunned Girls Can’t Say No <Hawt>
I can see Thief or Mesmer glass cannons becoming good. As a Warrior I can say that they can shut me down really fast if I can’t lock them down quickly. In team fights they can be a nightmare.
While I can easily see the issue you have with thieves, I am really curious what viable mesmer-build is causing you trouble as warrior?
I find warriors with all their cleansing and regen to be almost unkillable in the viable builds. I have 1 build, that fairs pretty well vs warriors (if they mess up nicely), but that build does suffer in terms in viability. Warriors don’t have to do these kind of compromises, and that is imho what is so wrong about them in their current state.
They have high hp, high toughness (or something else that ensure that they can both survive and/or escape), high burst (on stunned targets), low cd on key abilities (CC fx), and ofc very nice cleansing.
Compare to other classes, and tell me you have to make compromises (see fx mesmers)?
Mesmers have access to enough teleports and stun breaks that hitting a full combo with a Hammer 1v1 or a Skull Crack + 100b is pretty much impossible. Even if you focus on using longbow a smart Mesmer will spread their clones out so that you can’t take them all out. It can be a long fight but unless they screw up they can pretty much avoid fighting putting themselves in danger, if you do catch them they can just pop Distortion. Stuns are pretty much a joke to a Mesmer that’s built right.
I can actually beat even Evade Spam Thieves if I just use the longbow and stand in the combustion shot. Hit them with a few Arching Shots and a Pin Down and they’re done. They can’t stay in the Combustive Shot and if they fall back you’ll just heal up so they either have to be aggressive and risk me switching to Hammer or they play passive and I’ll keep them back with my bow.
Yes stuns are a joke against a mesmer. But you land your longbow 5 and predict bursts you will win.
We’re not talking 1v1 mind you. In a team fight, I as a Warrior would be focusing the condition guys while the Thief or Mesmer focuses me. Warriors will maybe have to have somebody watching their back as well. I really think buffing Mesmers in any significant manor isn’t necessary.
They may need a bit more active condition removal but even then that may make Warrior obsolete considering that they’re pretty darn strong it’s just that conditions eat them up. Now that things are changing a bit that may not be such big issue.
Just an angry old man…
Old Man Burr (War), Bad Hat Ben (Engi), Manly Manny Manson (Guard)
I can see Thief or Mesmer glass cannons becoming good. As a Warrior I can say that they can shut me down really fast if I can’t lock them down quickly. In team fights they can be a nightmare.
While I can easily see the issue you have with thieves, I am really curious what viable mesmer-build is causing you trouble as warrior?
I find warriors with all their cleansing and regen to be almost unkillable in the viable builds. I have 1 build, that fairs pretty well vs warriors (if they mess up nicely), but that build does suffer in terms in viability. Warriors don’t have to do these kind of compromises, and that is imho what is so wrong about them in their current state.
They have high hp, high toughness (or something else that ensure that they can both survive and/or escape), high burst (on stunned targets), low cd on key abilities (CC fx), and ofc very nice cleansing.
Compare to other classes, and tell me you have to make compromises (see fx mesmers)?
Mesmers have access to enough teleports and stun breaks that hitting a full combo with a Hammer 1v1 or a Skull Crack + 100b is pretty much impossible. Even if you focus on using longbow a smart Mesmer will spread their clones out so that you can’t take them all out. It can be a long fight but unless they screw up they can pretty much avoid fighting putting themselves in danger, if you do catch them they can just pop Distortion. Stuns are pretty much a joke to a Mesmer that’s built right.
I can actually beat even Evade Spam Thieves if I just use the longbow and stand in the combustion shot. Hit them with a few Arching Shots and a Pin Down and they’re done. They can’t stay in the Combustive Shot and if they fall back you’ll just heal up so they either have to be aggressive and risk me switching to Hammer or they play passive and I’ll keep them back with my bow.
Yes stuns are a joke against a mesmer. But you land your longbow 5 and predict bursts you will win.
We’re not talking 1v1 mind you. In a team fight, I as a Warrior would be focusing the condition guys while the Thief or Mesmer focuses me. Warriors will maybe have to have somebody watching their back as well. I really think buffing Mesmers in any significant manor isn’t necessary.
They may need a bit more active condition removal but even then that may make Warrior obsolete considering that they’re pretty darn strong it’s just that conditions eat them up. Now that things are changing a bit that may not be such big issue.
Oh. Yah i completely agree with you. Mesmer don’t need any buffs at all. Its fine to be countered by something. The only reason you don’t see mesmers anymore is all the condi and aoe spam. When the meta changes everything will be fine again
Dr. Professor Evil – Engi
Stunned Girls Can’t Say No <Hawt>
I can see Thief or Mesmer glass cannons becoming good. As a Warrior I can say that they can shut me down really fast if I can’t lock them down quickly. In team fights they can be a nightmare.
While I can easily see the issue you have with thieves, I am really curious what viable mesmer-build is causing you trouble as warrior?
I find warriors with all their cleansing and regen to be almost unkillable in the viable builds. I have 1 build, that fairs pretty well vs warriors (if they mess up nicely), but that build does suffer in terms in viability. Warriors don’t have to do these kind of compromises, and that is imho what is so wrong about them in their current state.
They have high hp, high toughness (or something else that ensure that they can both survive and/or escape), high burst (on stunned targets), low cd on key abilities (CC fx), and ofc very nice cleansing.
Compare to other classes, and tell me you have to make compromises (see fx mesmers)?
Mesmers have access to enough teleports and stun breaks that hitting a full combo with a Hammer 1v1 or a Skull Crack + 100b is pretty much impossible. Even if you focus on using longbow a smart Mesmer will spread their clones out so that you can’t take them all out. It can be a long fight but unless they screw up they can pretty much avoid fighting putting themselves in danger, if you do catch them they can just pop Distortion. Stuns are pretty much a joke to a Mesmer that’s built right.
I can actually beat even Evade Spam Thieves if I just use the longbow and stand in the combustion shot. Hit them with a few Arching Shots and a Pin Down and they’re done. They can’t stay in the Combustive Shot and if they fall back you’ll just heal up so they either have to be aggressive and risk me switching to Hammer or they play passive and I’ll keep them back with my bow.
That is not very specific. I asked for what specific build. Shatter-mes is hardly seen anymore. Saying that it will be fine when things are changed is just avoiding the question.
Yes: We do have a lot of ports/stealths/whatnot and our talents are all over the place.
Frankly … I can survive a warrior with my build, but if he goes for regen, I might as well bang my head in the wall. So again: What viable build is causing you so many problems?
Blackwater-build, Daze-lock or Shatter, or something else? I am genuinely interested. FYI build right is again not very precise and is slightly patronizing. Mesmers are doing all sort of things to be viable … if you have 1 super-build I suppose you share it
And as a sidenote: The S/D-thieves I see are not easily pinned down … ?
my problem tho is that now the meta is filled with builds that are hybrids and can sustain for themselves. Everyone is running more of a 1v1 build than playing a role. I want heavy burst builds and heavy bunker builds to both be viable. As i stated before, a HUGE problem is how tankier builds beat burst builds 1v1 very easily. The fact that this game is based purely around teamfights is a myth because there is no support or anything. Its damage/survivability.
however, if you add that to PvP, you will basically allow all the insanely serious WvW teams to roll over you. As any type of PVT/CVT type of gear and or build in PvP will basically mean all balance will be lost. AS a hardcore WvW player, i can tell you one thing; no matter how hard you try to counter it, a serious group of 5 man, with decent comunication using PVT/CVT will absolutely wipe any other build out there thanks to superior tank and damage.
Lv 80 Guard, Ranger, Ele, Thief, warr, engi
Currently @ some T1 server in EU
It’s so mind numbing people think playing mace shield longbow hammer or condi build requires any sort of coordination to play effectively. even though you pretty much can role your face over keyboard now with warrior and kill someone or be successful XD (true fact tested it with condi regen build). The skill cap on playing warriors is so kittening low right now. This meta is noob friendly and that’s why the game will never be competitive unless they revert everything back to the burst meta. When the idea on Sotg came up for rangers to have extra F skill the devs said no because “it would be too hard for new players”. That’s how you know they want to cater to the new players and thats not going to end well because once new players really know how kittened up the balance in this game is and they will lose interest as well. Catering to new players will be good for short term but long term they will see the negative effects when there is literally no one in tourneys and hotjoins which is starting to happen.
Ouch .. that is pretty blunt. Even if I agree, I wouldn’t use these words
But yeah, it feels as if the risk/reward-balance is not happening. Nice to see the words coming from a warrior; no sensible person wants warriors to not be viable, but it seems that people perception on the term viable is very different
It’s so mind numbing people think playing mace shield longbow hammer or condi build requires any sort of coordination to play effectively. even though you pretty much can role your face over keyboard now with warrior and kill someone or be successful XD (true fact tested it with condi regen build). The skill cap on playing warriors is so kittening low right now. This meta is noob friendly and that’s why the game will never be competitive unless they revert everything back to the burst meta. When the idea on Sotg came up for rangers to have extra F skill the devs said no because “it would be too hard for new players”. That’s how you know they want to cater to the new players and thats not going to end well because once new players really know how kittened up the balance in this game is and they will lose interest as well. Catering to new players will be good for short term but long term they will see the negative effects when there is literally no one in tourneys and hotjoins which is starting to happen.
Ouch .. that is pretty blunt. Even if I agree, I wouldn’t use these words
But yeah, it feels as if the risk/reward-balance is not happening. Nice to see the words coming from a warrior; no sensible person wants warriors to not be viable, but it seems that people perception on the term viable is very different
Yea I am coming off pretty harsh cause this game could be sooo much better, in power meta its really a downer that they are waiting for so many patches to finally balance the game, but honestly I don’t think they know what they are doing with balance patches with warrior for example all we needed was little sustain to exist in power meta (which zerk stance was all that was needed since our condi remove sucked). Instead they give us a healing signet that does what a base of 407 heal per second… cleansing ire which is so OP with longbow hammer. On top of all this the stances make them so much better. Also necro idk why they needed to buff there damage when it was pretty much a problem with there sustain pre patch (june) instead they go out and add a burn trait make there death shroud OP and buff a lot more which I did not pay attention to. Now team fights its all about spam and ai its kind of ridiculous. They need to revert a lot of stuff I would rather have the insta gib double eles back in meta than this kitten.
I think people are generally too scared to experiment outside of the metagame, anyway. I’ve been playing with an axe build on my necromancer recently, and while I’m not sure it’s top-level material, it’s certainly viable. It definitely makes it a lot easier to deal with warriors and AR engineers.
thief mesmer and warrior cant 1 shot anything so i dont think thats the reason. In fact most of thief and mesmer builds are unviable thanks to this meta.
Well, the thing they were pushing at the time was damage-support-control, right? Damage and control we get a lot of. Support not so much.
I’m not saying there should be dedicated healers or a dedicated healing class. But it’d be nice to be able to work some support into a typical build and not feel like so much has to be sacrificed in order to do it.
It is possible to do play support and sacrifice little. It’s just up to the teams to decide whether it’s worth it or not.
The two classes that do it best are the Engie and Ele. Their ability to stack might mid-fight allows them to spec in one direction but have the ability to grow into other directions as the fight proceeds.
An other issue that tends to be annoying is that it’s hard to finish these kind of builds( in 3v3 or more), whilst they usually ( if not always) have stability when finishing you..
At least on top100-200 leaderboards matchs, there are some battles that clearly cannot be won, simply on team compositions or on map( foefire especially..)..
Sword Dagger thieves, SD engies and shatter Mesmers can get away w/ zerker in sPvP. There are specs that can pull this off. Those specs usually involve escapes, misdirection, or other ways to reset.
yeah it would be cool to see some really creative compositions. And yes, really good support skills is a way to help that happen…