This is why the queues are being merged for Stronghold and Conquest. The base professions don’t look like they are getting access to these new conditions. The expansion is the only way to get the specializations that offer access to these. Stronghold will be playable by all and if you decide to forego the x-pac, you can expect to be a little under=powered for a month or two to “encourage” you to pick up the x-pac. Then, after a few months of spec. OP’ness, they will do a balance pass on the base professions to bring them more in line with the specs.
Leader of The Guernsey Milking Coalition [MiLk] Sanctum of Rall
This is why the queues are being merged for Stronghold and Conquest. The base professions don’t look like they are getting access to these new conditions. The expansion is the only way to get the specializations that offer access to these. Stronghold will be playable by all and if you decide to forego the x-pac, you can expect to be a little under=powered for a month or two to “encourage” you to pick up the x-pac. Then, after a few months of spec. OP’ness, they will do a balance pass on the base professions to bring them more in line with the specs.
I think you’re really stretching the reasoning behind merged queues a bit too far mate.
This is why the queues are being merged for Stronghold and Conquest. The base professions don’t look like they are getting access to these new conditions. The expansion is the only way to get the specializations that offer access to these. Stronghold will be playable by all and if you decide to forego the x-pac, you can expect to be a little under=powered for a month or two to “encourage” you to pick up the x-pac. Then, after a few months of spec. OP’ness, they will do a balance pass on the base professions to bring them more in line with the specs.
That is a nice post and all but what does that have to do with merging Stronghold and conquest. IT seems like halfway through your post you lost your train of thought.
As u know im pro. ~Tomonobu Itagaki
This is an mmo forum, if someone isn’t whining chances are the game is dead.
I wish… Im pretty scared of what the new expansion will hold in terms of balance. If balance significantly changes and certain things become too OP then i’m just going to quit the game. No more waiting 6 months for balance patches.
Best Multiclass NA. RIP my beautiful Necromancer, such a shame. Retired, April 2015. GG Anet,
I’m not coming back, not that you care.
Taunts have no place in the guild wars combat system. It is an overused, ill-conceived status that undermines the comprehensive design of combat. Such an effect is no greater than a telekenetic lockdown on an entity; this is not a good thing. This kind of effect results in an oversimplified and unexplainable phenomenon, specifically in this case a player losing total control over their various faculties. For anything less than total mind control, my character should not become a simpleton that has no cognitive ability.
Taunts have no place in the guild wars combat system. It is an overused, ill-conceived status that undermines the comprehensive design of combat. Such an effect is no greater than a telekenetic lockdown on an entity; this is not a good thing. This kind of effect results in an oversimplified and unexplainable phenomenon, specifically in this case a player losing total control over their various faculties. For anything less than total mind control, my character should not become a simpleton that has no cognitive ability.
You can stun break out of it. That and you must seriously hate playing against Fear spam Necros.
Taunts have no place in the guild wars combat system. It is an overused, ill-conceived status that undermines the comprehensive design of combat. Such an effect is no greater than a telekenetic lockdown on an entity; this is not a good thing. This kind of effect results in an oversimplified and unexplainable phenomenon, specifically in this case a player losing total control over their various faculties. For anything less than total mind control, my character should not become a simpleton that has no cognitive ability.
Stuns, daze, knockdown, launch, fear and pulls do.
Anet, please look at boon removal priorities on the various skills. If you want to add new boons that’s cool, love the idea, but they need to be removable, and you need to rebalance the removal priorities of skills. We even have boon removal skills (Unholy Feast) being blocked by Aegis…
Taunt in the way it’s being used is a VERY fun mechanic from experience. It works how taunts worked in Bloodline Champions, and it was freaking awesome. It’s SLIGHTLY different, but mostly the same. I think it’ll have neat combos with confusion stacking.
High Warlord Sikari (80 Reaper) / Lord Siekron (80 DH)
Warlord Sikari (80 Scrapper)
Anet, please look at boon removal priorities on the various skills. If you want to add new boons that’s cool, love the idea, but they need to be removable, and you need to rebalance the removal priorities of skills. We even have boon removal skills (Unholy Feast) being blocked by Aegis…
But Unholy Feast removes Aegis XP
Sylvari Elementalist – Mystree Duskbloom (Lv 80)
Norn Guardian – Aurora Lustyr (Lv 80)
Mia A Shadows Glow – Human Thief (Lv 80)
Taunts have no place in the guild wars combat system. It is an overused, ill-conceived status that undermines the comprehensive design of combat. Such an effect is no greater than a telekenetic lockdown on an entity; this is not a good thing. This kind of effect results in an oversimplified and unexplainable phenomenon, specifically in this case a player losing total control over their various faculties. For anything less than total mind control, my character should not become a simpleton that has no cognitive ability.
Taunt should be fine as long as it isn’t spammable. Stability and Stun breaks will still work. Though this is the sPvP section, Taunts are kinda needed as some sort of aggro. Like for PvE there was no way to have a certain aggro, but this game has no trinity so it wouldn’t’ matter too much. For sPvP, it’s a good way to peel for your team other than just cross heals and soft cc.
#MostTeamQueueWins before December 2nd, 2014 Patch
[NA]Rank 71 before April 15th, 2014 Feature Patch OG Moltres, 10k Champion Brawler, Team PZ http://www.twitch.tv/yourfriendmarvin
Taunts have no place in the guild wars combat system. It is an overused, ill-conceived status that undermines the comprehensive design of combat. Such an effect is no greater than a telekenetic lockdown on an entity; this is not a good thing. This kind of effect results in an oversimplified and unexplainable phenomenon, specifically in this case a player losing total control over their various faculties. For anything less than total mind control, my character should not become a simpleton that has no cognitive ability.
Taunt should be fine as long as it isn’t spammable. Stability and Stun breaks will still work. Though this is the sPvP section, Taunts are kinda needed as some sort of aggro. Like for PvE there was no way to have a certain aggro, but this game has no trinity so it wouldn’t’ matter too much. For sPvP, it’s a good way to peel for your team other than just cross heals and soft cc.
If taunt is a long duration cc it will be bad. Long duration cc is bad.
The last thing this game is more conditions, it needs less. Its sad really to see ANet going this direction. That being said, Taunt could be interesting.
Taunts have no place in the guild wars combat system. It is an overused, ill-conceived status that undermines the comprehensive design of combat. Such an effect is no greater than a telekenetic lockdown on an entity; this is not a good thing. This kind of effect results in an oversimplified and unexplainable phenomenon, specifically in this case a player losing total control over their various faculties. For anything less than total mind control, my character should not become a simpleton that has no cognitive ability.
Taunt should be fine as long as it isn’t spammable. Stability and Stun breaks will still work. Though this is the sPvP section, Taunts are kinda needed as some sort of aggro. Like for PvE there was no way to have a certain aggro, but this game has no trinity so it wouldn’t’ matter too much. For sPvP, it’s a good way to peel for your team other than just cross heals and soft cc.
If taunt is a long duration cc it will be bad. Long duration cc is bad.
If anything a taunt shouldn’t be easy to land and a decent duration, since it is a “taunt”. Nothing more than 3 seconds. Any long taunt should have some sort of skill shot and a decent cool down, a somewhat decent telegraph and not too short or too long. So it isn’t too bad if people know how to position/dodge correctly. AoE Stability and Quickness in general are rare in any class, unless you invest in it. So hopefully Taunt isn’t easy spammable like I said. If it is a long duration, then yeah QQ threads everywhere. The problem is that there isn’t any dimishing return for the amount of CC that you can receive. But yeah I don’t mind Taunt as long as it has some sort of counterplay/balance. Same goes for Resistance, hopefully it is as rare as Quickness or Stab, and not too spammable. We’ll see what A-net has more in store..
#MostTeamQueueWins before December 2nd, 2014 Patch
[NA]Rank 71 before April 15th, 2014 Feature Patch OG Moltres, 10k Champion Brawler, Team PZ http://www.twitch.tv/yourfriendmarvin
I dont see why they didnt just add that 1 extra mechanic to chill (the animation slowing) since the rest is already part of it as a condi…
chill + slow is going to be nearly a daze or stun when used in conjunction, but not effected by stun breaks :/
I’ll assume they won’t be putting them on the same skill and thus make it some kind of skilled combo that you’ll have to pull off if you want to do this. Just a thought.
Taunt as they’ve described it sounds asinine. A CC effect that can
A) Cause a player to eat more damage from torment
B) Cause a player to eat more damage from confusion
C) Potentially cause a player to eat more damage from Retal
C) Waste “on swing” charges (such as venoms)
D) Control a players path, potentially forcing them to walk into traps (literal traps/marks, off of ledges in skyhammer, swinging into a ele with shock field up, etc)
And that’s all just off the top of my head having read this article moments ago. I’m sure there are a couple of other scenario’s I’ve missed.
Taunt should have been handled it like it was in WAR (Warhammer online: Age of reckoning). Taunt should have been a debuff that reduced your outgoing damage by 50% until you hit the taunting target X times, or until the duration was up. That’s a well designed taunt.
What Anet has proposed is a poor imitation.
If you’re a thief and haven’t
pre-ordered HOT at this point,
save yourself the money and don’t bother.
Taunt as they’ve described it sounds asinine. A CC effect that can
A) Cause a player to eat more damage from torment
B) Cause a player to eat more damage from confusion
C) Potentially cause a player to eat more damage from Retal
C) Waste “on swing” charges (such as venoms)
D) Control a players path, potentially forcing them to walk into traps (literal traps/marks, off of ledges in skyhammer, swinging into a ele with shock field up, etc)
And that’s all just off the top of my head having read this article moments ago. I’m sure there are a couple of other scenario’s I’ve missed.
Taunt should have been handled it like it was in WAR (Warhammer online: Age of reckoning). Taunt should have been a debuff that reduced your outgoing damage by 50% until you hit the taunting target X times, or until the duration was up. That’s a well designed taunt.
What Anet has proposed is a poor imitation.
Most of that applies to Fear too, the trade off is that fear doesn’t take damage.
High Warlord Sikari (80 Reaper) / Lord Siekron (80 DH)
Warlord Sikari (80 Scrapper)
Taunt as they’ve described it sounds asinine. A CC effect that can
A) Cause a player to eat more damage from torment
B) Cause a player to eat more damage from confusion
C) Potentially cause a player to eat more damage from Retal
C) Waste “on swing” charges (such as venoms)
D) Control a players path, potentially forcing them to walk into traps (literal traps/marks, off of ledges in skyhammer, swinging into a ele with shock field up, etc)
And that’s all just off the top of my head having read this article moments ago. I’m sure there are a couple of other scenario’s I’ve missed.
Taunt should have been handled it like it was in WAR (Warhammer online: Age of reckoning). Taunt should have been a debuff that reduced your outgoing damage by 50% until you hit the taunting target X times, or until the duration was up. That’s a well designed taunt.
What Anet has proposed is a poor imitation.
Most of that applies to Fear too, the trade off is that fear doesn’t take damage.
Fear does not apply to B, C or that second C I mistakenly put, so you’re already short of “most”.
D is a bit trickier, since we don’t know exactly how taunt works right now. If it works like fear (your path is calculated at time of cast), then it’s only slightly better than fear. However, if the character follows the taunter even if they move it’s potentially much more powerful than fear, since you have much more control over your targets path.
In either case, you’re looking at taunt sharing 20-35% of fear’s characteristics, which is far from “most”.
The game didn’t need more hard CC. Soft CC (the way WAR did taunt, as I described) would have been much better.
If you’re a thief and haven’t
pre-ordered HOT at this point,
save yourself the money and don’t bother.
Seems like a stretch. I think you’re undervaluing the protective part of Fear. Also, I’d venture to say because of AI mechanics and slows, you probably won’t even have that much damage from it, it’ll probably end up more like a glorified pull rather than a push.
High Warlord Sikari (80 Reaper) / Lord Siekron (80 DH)
Warlord Sikari (80 Scrapper)
Seems like a stretch. I think you’re undervaluing the protective part of Fear.
I’m not sure why Fear keeps coming up. Fear certainly looks like a better defensive CC, but I’m not talking about defensive. I’m talking damage potential, and Taunt (appears to) take the cake on that one – fear doesn’t let your confusion keep ticking, it doesn’t let you force an enemy player to eat an “on block” or “on hit” attack they’d normally avoid because it’s highly punishing because it’s so obvious.
Also, I’d venture to say because of AI mechanics and slows, you probably won’t even have that much damage from it, it’ll probably end up more like a glorified pull rather than a push.
What exactly do “AI mechanics” have to do with this? also, most players will probably save their Hard CC (Taunt) for when their soft CC (Slow) is no longer on their target and vice versa.
If you’re a thief and haven’t
pre-ordered HOT at this point,
save yourself the money and don’t bother.
Taunt should have been handled it like it was in WAR (Warhammer online: Age of reckoning). Taunt should have been a debuff that reduced your outgoing damage by 50% until you hit the taunting target X times, or until the duration was up. That’s a well designed taunt.
What Anet has proposed is a poor imitation.
Yeah that was one of the few things I liked about the pvp in that game, it was an original implementation, and one that let heavy armour types meaningfully protect their squishier teammates without using hard CC.
GW2 desperately needs better soft CC (cripples, weakness, blind, etc), and far less hard CC (knockdowns, fear, immobilise, and now I guess taunt).
But overall, I don’t think taunt will be overpowered. Since it’s a hard cc, I’m sure they’ll put it on long recharge, and the classes getting it will probably get it instead of getting other hard CCs like knockdowns and fears.
D is a bit trickier, since we don’t know exactly how taunt works right now. If it works like fear (your path is calculated at time of cast), then it’s only slightly better than fear. However, if the character follows the taunter even if they move it’s potentially much more powerful than fear, since you have much more control over your targets path.
Fear’s path is recalculated constantly. That’s why Necros can Fearchain so well with Spectral Wall; they “herd” people through the wall multiple times. This requires cripple or chill on the victim, but it is completely doable.
Taunt will not likely be any different on that front.
D is a bit trickier, since we don’t know exactly how taunt works right now. If it works like fear (your path is calculated at time of cast), then it’s only slightly better than fear. However, if the character follows the taunter even if they move it’s potentially much more powerful than fear, since you have much more control over your targets path.
Fear’s path is recalculated constantly. That’s why Necros can Fearchain so well with Spectral Wall; they “herd” people through the wall multiple times. This requires cripple or chill on the victim, but it is completely doable.
Taunt will not likely be any different on that front.
Yeah, I may be spotty on fear – I Don’t really play a class that uses it and I tend to either break it immediately or melt when it’s on, though I was under the impression you ran in 1 direction when it was applied.
How does the direction mechanic work?
If you’re a thief and haven’t
pre-ordered HOT at this point,
save yourself the money and don’t bother.
Seems like a stretch. I think you’re undervaluing the protective part of Fear.
I’m not sure why Fear keeps coming up. Fear certainly looks like a better defensive CC, but I’m not talking about defensive. I’m talking damage potential, and Taunt (appears to) take the cake on that one – fear doesn’t let your confusion keep ticking, it doesn’t let you force an enemy player to eat an “on block” or “on hit” attack they’d normally avoid because it’s highly punishing because it’s so obvious.
Also, I’d venture to say because of AI mechanics and slows, you probably won’t even have that much damage from it, it’ll probably end up more like a glorified pull rather than a push.
What exactly do “AI mechanics” have to do with this? also, most players will probably save their Hard CC (Taunt) for when their soft CC (Slow) is no longer on their target and vice versa.
I say that because depending on how/where you get taunted it may just end up more of a pull, you might not see the actual attacks happen as often as you’d think.
High Warlord Sikari (80 Reaper) / Lord Siekron (80 DH)
Warlord Sikari (80 Scrapper)
More crowd-control in this game is not good. I do not enjoy getting constant limited and disabled, all the time, when I have very small stability. I left WoW game 3 years ago because of too much crowd-control in it.
If ArenaNet puts more-crowd control in this game, I will leave this game because it becomes a game designed only for kids who want to have fun disturbing, disabling and throwing the enemy all over the map.
Now I am starting thinking of returning to WoW, because they removed 70% of their crowd-control in their latest expansion to bring more customers, while ArenaNet wants more crowd-control in their patches and their first GW2 expansion.
This is my feedback about the first expansion. I want a game, not an antigame. Remove crowd-control and do not add more crowd-control, nothing more to ask.
Now I am starting thinking of returning to WoW, because they removed 70% of their crowd-control in their latest expansion to bring more customers, while ArenaNet wants more crowd-control in their patches and their first GW2 expansion.
That’s what blizzard promised, just another lie.
Have fun being insta trapped by hunters every single second.
D is a bit trickier, since we don’t know exactly how taunt works right now. If it works like fear (your path is calculated at time of cast), then it’s only slightly better than fear. However, if the character follows the taunter even if they move it’s potentially much more powerful than fear, since you have much more control over your targets path.
Fear’s path is recalculated constantly. That’s why Necros can Fearchain so well with Spectral Wall; they “herd” people through the wall multiple times. This requires cripple or chill on the victim, but it is completely doable.
Taunt will not likely be any different on that front.
Yeah, I may be spotty on fear – I Don’t really play a class that uses it and I tend to either break it immediately or melt when it’s on, though I was under the impression you ran in 1 direction when it was applied.
How does the direction mechanic work?
You run directly away from the source of your Fear. Imagine a ray drawn from the Necromancer (or Warrior, Ranger wolf, or Thief) through your character. You run in the direction of the arrow, no matter how much that changes.
More crowd-control in this game is not good. I do not enjoy getting constant limited and disabled, all the time, when I have very small stability. I left WoW game 3 years ago because of too much crowd-control in it.
If ArenaNet puts more-crowd control in this game, I will leave this game because it becomes a game designed only for kids who want to have fun disturbing, disabling and throwing the enemy all over the map.
Now I am starting thinking of returning to WoW, because they removed 70% of their crowd-control in their latest expansion to bring more customers, while ArenaNet wants more crowd-control in their patches and their first GW2 expansion.
This is my feedback about the first expansion. I want a game, not an antigame. Remove crowd-control and do not add more crowd-control, nothing more to ask.
I dont think we will get more CC in one build. Dont forget unlike WoW gw2 is limited to 10 skills (+weapon swap, attunment swap, kits etc.). So the new CC will be a trade-off for something else. So more CC then a hammer warrior, terromancer etc. is rather unlikely.
More crowd-control in this game is not good. I do not enjoy getting constant limited and disabled, all the time, when I have very small stability. I left WoW game 3 years ago because of too much crowd-control in it.
If ArenaNet puts more-crowd control in this game, I will leave this game because it becomes a game designed only for kids who want to have fun disturbing, disabling and throwing the enemy all over the map.
Now I am starting thinking of returning to WoW, because they removed 70% of their crowd-control in their latest expansion to bring more customers, while ArenaNet wants more crowd-control in their patches and their first GW2 expansion.
This is my feedback about the first expansion. I want a game, not an antigame. Remove crowd-control and do not add more crowd-control, nothing more to ask.
I dont think we will get more CC in one build. Dont forget unlike WoW gw2 is limited to 10 skills (+weapon swap, attunment swap, kits etc.). So the new CC will be a trade-off for something else. So more CC then a hammer warrior, terromancer etc. is rather unlikely.
I was thinking the same thing. It’s easy to conflate new CC with more CC.
Taunt
Some players here seem worried about confusion and retaliation used with taunt. If we’re talking average amounts of retaliation (1,800 power) and average confusion (5 stacks, 1400 condition damage), this means you’ll be dealing:
Confusion – 850
Retaliation – 333
Total = 1,183
Keep in mind, you’d have to be hitting something that has retaliation working at 1,800 power AND have confusion at 1,400 condition damage to reach this amount. This number fluctuates depending on what skill is your auto attack (Grenade?, Flame Jet, Flip Over Chains). Things I worry about with confusion and retaliation are things that attack a lot, like flamethrower (retaliation) and kit swapping/attunement swapping (confusion).
Assuming that the amount of taunt in one build is reasonable (Maybe a bit less than terrormancer) and the damage gained through retaliation and confusion is fair:
Do you still worry about this condition?
Do you think you’ll enjoy applying it and having it applied to you?
Slow/Resistance
I haven’t really heard much about this condition in this thread. Most of the worry seems to be about taunt:
What do you think about these conditions/boons?
For slow specifically, the post says it’s the opposite of quickness. This might mean that it affects things like reses and stomps (like quickness does). Do you like this functionality?
For resistance specifically, do you think stances like Berserker’s Stance would be better using this boon instead? What about traits like Diamond Skin or Automated Response?
Main: Raine Avina (Engineer)
Message me any time in game.
Slow and resistance seem really interesting, can be removed/healed and give an idea to have a big impact in many situations (first of all on a downed player situation).
Berserker stance is not a great design for sure, there is not a counterplay but was nerfed (3 adrenaline bars instead of 5) and it’s time limited (8-10s).
Diamond skin is worst, no counter play against a condi pure build, basically useless in teamfight.
Automated response was nerfed not really strong now.
Slow and resistance seem really interesting, can be removed/healed and give an idea to have a big impact in many situations (first of all on a downed player situation).
Berserker stance is not a great design for sure, there is not a counterplay but was nerfed (3 adrenaline bars instead of 5) and it’s time limited (8-10s).
Diamond skin is worst, no counter play against a condi pure build, basically useless in teamfight.
Automated response was nerfed not really strong now.
But do you think changing those skills/traits to utilize resistance would be better? Like maybe Automated Response granting 5s of resistance at 25% health on a 25s recharge (totally random numbers, but you get the idea).
Main: Raine Avina (Engineer)
Message me any time in game.
I think the taunt mechanic is really stupid no matter what game it’s in. I’m ok with crowd control but not only is taunting excessively annoying, but it makes me feel so detached from the storyline and the character that I’ve been building. So I’m capable of uniting the orders of Tyria, leading the pact, and defeating an elder dragon, but I can’t ignore “nanana boo boo” on the battlefield? It just really pulls the R out of RPG for me.
For slow specifically, the post says it’s the opposite of quickness. This might mean that it affects things like reses and stomps (like quickness does). Do you like this functionality?
Personally, I do like this functionality. I doubt its effectiveness in this context, though.
I don’t feel that Slow will be as attractive in the scenarios you mentioned as Quickness is. The reason is quite simple: It is easier to interrupt or kill someone who is ressing or stomping instead of slowing them. If Slow happens to affect that specific opponent, nice to have. But it’s not the most effective countermeasure.
For resistance specifically, do you think stances like Berserker’s Stance would be better using this boon instead? What about traits like Diamond Skin or Automated Response?
Automated Response could work nicely with Resistance, especially since it is placed in the traitline with boon duration so it fits the theme. This not so much applies to Diamond Skin but it would still feel more fun since there are reasonable countermeasures to a boon instead of a passive perk.
When it comes to Berserker’s Stance I’d like to see a change as well. The issue I see here is the inconsistency among the stance utilities. Some grant boons, some grant unique effects. I’d rather have either all granting boons or all granting unique effects. This probably is more of a design issue but it should be considered.
.