EverythingOP
Taunt doesn't let you target
I knew the whining about taunt would come sooner or later. Only one class has it and it can only happen every 20 seconds. Now, it currently goes through block and invulns right now should be fixed but if you do ANYTHING else to taunt, you will make it COMPLETELY worthless. I cannot stress that enough. It has a unique purpose.
This is just wrong it still has the function of a regular cc, moving towards the target is also usefull.
I know because ranger has it, the most hated class in the game yet hasn’t seen a top tier tournament final in nearly a year (apex w/ nnight and he plays mesmer nowww) that doesn’t mean it’s deemed automatically OP at all… Also if you have teleport (thief / mes) you can use that or any other stun break that doesn’t require a target. Quit kittening whining already, also STEAL ISN’T A STUN BREAK that’s why you can’t use it while taunted.
First I don’t care if the ranger got it, the guardian got it or an engineer got it. The target lock is beyond what control skills should have.
I really wish these hotjoin heroes would quit whining and worry about more important issues like tank eles, mesmer burst w/ survivability, burning stack dmg, engi 100 nades bug, etc etc etc….
Anet knows these plights from the player we got threads enough about that.
If you nerf taunt, you will nerf rangers even MORE than what they already are to be honest, the class is is in the bottom bracket out of ALL classes right now in terms of team viability in top tier pvp. Taunt isn’t even a gamechanger for ranger anyway lol.
Allowing targetting another character during a cc will not hurt ranger that much.
You can use stun breaks to get rid of it. Enough said, get over it and quit whining.
No, you quit whining about your ranger, Tim has it right.
How does he have it right? When you get cc’d you stun break, this is a concept that has ALWAYS been in the game as a defensive against CC. Is this very concept suddenly a new concept for you? All taunt is , is a new CC. Whether what target you have selected or not you can use a stun break and it cancels the CC. Bring stun breaks and you should be fine. Why is there so much whining about this? The hotjoin heroes are real.
Because this cc does something unprecedented: it prevents the control the player has over his screen. Also some stunbreaks are targetted and therefore will lose alot of value, whart good is a stunbreak when depending on the cc ,the thing it is supposed to counter, is partially effective?
Even if a stun break is targeted (which I’m not sure there are any, there might be though) – if you’re referring to steal, it is not a stun break although you can use steal while you are CC’d it is NOT a stun break so yes you can use steal while taunted, but this is with any CC though…
You do have a target for stun breaks though IF you ever need one and BESIDES any stun break if there is a target required does very little damage anyway , you’re using it for the stun break not the damage and like I said you have the pet to stun break against and get out of the situation you’re in…
Listen, if any good ranger is using taunt on you , it’s to setup a burst on you – it’s THAT simple as is with any person who sets up a stun on you – it’s usually to interrupt a heal / res or setup burst… A stun break solves this, that’s why they are in the game whether or not you can control the target while you’re cc’ed or not because you can’t use skills while CC’d anyway, you use a stun break then dodge the intended burst. This is something that has been in the game since the beginning.
The only thing it will help against if you’re able to target someone is steal on thief and not have to use a stun break to avoid a burst setup (which is bullkitten anyway) and interrupt the ranger at the same time due to trickery while he is about to setup the burst which would make taunt completely useless, it’s whole purpose is to taunt the person into targetting something else and stay on the intended target, in this it is the pet. That IS how taunt works.
As of right now taunt currently is un-avoidable, which makes it broken. Once they fix it to be blockable and not go through invulns it will be balanced back to what it should be but that’s the only balancing that should be done on this CC skill.
Tanbin – Ranger / Thief / Ele
Maguuma
Maguuma
(edited by blitzkrieg.2451)
I get what you are saying OP.
Targetting stunbreaks won’t work against taunt in this regard, there’s a potential it might be too strong once we see more of it on the field.
For now, I can’t say one way or another.
Suicidal Warrior.
Putting Perspective on Zerg Sizes since 2012. Common Suffixes for 40+ include ~Zilla and ~Train
“Seriously, just dodge.”
Putting Perspective on Zerg Sizes since 2012. Common Suffixes for 40+ include ~Zilla and ~Train
“Seriously, just dodge.”
Even if a stun break is targeted (which I’m not sure there are any, there might be though) – if you’re referring to steal, it is not a stun break although you can use steal while you are CC’d it is NOT a stun break so yes you can use steal while taunted, but this is with any CC though…
You do have a target for stun breaks though IF you ever need one and BESIDES any stun break if there is a target required does very little damage anyway , you’re using it for the stun break not the damage and like I said you have the pet to stun break against and get out of the situation you’re in…
First plague signet is a high damage skill and stun breaker, judges intervention and thief infiltrator signet teleport to the target location, signet of air/midnight blinds the target, mirror images creates two clones who attack the target. All are targetted signets some with great utility and/or damage.
Also I’m not even sure if you have the pet as target, one of the f2 causes stealth. Some clarification on this one would be nice.
Listen, if any good ranger is using taunt on you , it’s to setup a burst on you – it’s THAT simple as is with any person who sets up a stun on you – it’s usually to interrupt a heal / res or setup burst… A stun break solves this, that’s why they are in the game whether or not you can control the target while you’re cc’ed or not because you can’t use skills while CC’d anyway, you use a stun break then dodge the intended burst. This is something that has been in the game since the beginning.
True, but it has also been since the beggining that while cc’ed you could target the foe to not only target your skills but also see crucial information about your enemy.
The only thing it will help against if you’re able to target someone is steal on thief and not have to use a stun break to avoid a burst setup (which is bullkitten anyway) and interrupt the ranger at the same time due to trickery while he is about to setup the burst which would make taunt completely useless,
See the list of targeted stunbreaks which all have usefull effects to hit the ranger with. Also you forget necro who counter cc by using doom, quite a common strategy to deal with cc.
it’s whole purpose is to taunt the person into targetting something else and stay on the intended target, in this it is the pet.
This is your intrepretation of taunt, The only thing about taunt that is it’s purpose is:
“Taunt is a control effect that forces the affected target to run towards the source of taunt with all skills except stun breakers disabled while using their auto-attack skill.”
Nothing says about locking the target.
That IS how taunt works.
Like fear,stun,daze should force people from keeping attacking?
EverythingOP
You didn’t even test it to see if you have the pet targetted and yet you felt you needed to come on the forums and begin complaining about the skill? I can’t even take you seriously now.
This is why good players hardly ever type on the forums about skill balance , they just test things internally and figure out logical ways to deal with it amongst their high skilled friends. Most forums are just filled with bads who complain first and don’t innovate or think of ways to get out of the situation.
You’ll have to play a tad differently now with taunt, although not even really play diferently because a stun break is the same in this context, literally nothing is different LOL.
Whether it’s a targetted stun break or not, you have the pet targetted to stun break against. It’s really that simple. Get good and stop complaining about things you didn’t even test to begin with.
Tanbin – Ranger / Thief / Ele
Maguuma
Maguuma
Just so you guys know..pet taunt is different from player one. If a player taunt you then after all..you will still have him selected so overall taunt is not all that powerful as you guys making it out to be. Ranger seems to be a exception in that as hes not the one who cast taunt in this case.
obey me
You didn’t even test it to see if you have the pet targetted and yet you felt you needed to come on the forums and begin complaining about the skill? I can’t even take you seriously now.
I know I have the pet targetted , I have once met such ranger in my battles. I also tested taunt on the invisible pet and it behaved strangely in pve. Unfortunatly I don’t have anyone to test taunt in a controlled area. So I won’t know everything like if a taunt on a stealthed foe will keep the target and allow switching. Also not everyone has to test everything because that would be a huge waste of time.
This is why good players hardly ever type on the forums about skill balance , they just test things internally and figure out logical ways to deal with it amongst their high skilled friends. Most forums are just filled with bads who complain first and don’t innovate or think of ways to get out of the situation.
I can deal with anything ranging from countering to preventing, even dying is among my options of dealing. That however doesn’t mean it is balanced or good for the game.
You’ll have to play a tad differently now with taunt, although not even really play diferently because a stun break is the same in this context, literally nothing is different LOL.
Whether it’s a targetted stun break or not, you have the pet targetted to stun break against. It’s really that simple. Get good and stop complaining about things you didn’t even test to begin with.
A stun break is a stun break nothing has changed but there are no pure stun break skills. They all have a secondary effect like giving stability or shadowstepping people. What I’m pointing out is that as a stunbreak you have to “waste” that secondary effect on that pet just to stunbreak unlike any other stunbreak in this game. In my eyes that is unbalanced.
Also would you please stop insulting people, it does not make you sound any more intelligent.
EverythingOP
Just so you guys know..pet taunt is different from player one. If a player taunt you then after all..you will still have him selected so overall taunt is not all that powerful as you guys making it out to be. Ranger seems to be a exception in that as hes not the one who cast taunt in this case.
Yes but in a team fight, this might make a difference.
EverythingOP
Just so you guys know..pet taunt is different from player one. If a player taunt you then after all..you will still have him selected so overall taunt is not all that powerful as you guys making it out to be. Ranger seems to be a exception in that as hes not the one who cast taunt in this case.
Yes but in a team fight, this might make a difference.
I dont think taunt will break teamfights with all the cc floating around already.
obey me
Taunts working as intended, just swap target as soon as it ends, it’s not that hard. Part of the power of taunt is specifically this functionality, and isn’t a “UI error”. I hate losing my target when people stealth, when it COULD hold my target even if I wasn’t able to see them/lock skills on them until it was over, but it’s part of the mechanic. Just gotta learn to deal with it.
Personally, it’s my opinion that instant spells (other than attunement change, weapon swap, death shroud, kit changes, and stun breaks) shouldn’t even be usable while hard CCed. Seems like lazy programming as a result of not having a cast bar to me.
(I play nothing with taunt, but it’s my opinion on it.)
High Warlord Sikari (80 Reaper) / Lord Siekron (80 DH)
Warlord Sikari (80 Scrapper)
Warlord Sikari (80 Scrapper)
The simple issue I see with taunt, is that because you can’t choose your target, you can’t use instant cast abilities properly. If you’re a Thief or Guardian, you can’t use Infiltrator’s Signet or Judge’s Intervention on your desired target as a stun break, you also can’t use them on no target to stun break without teleporting. On other professions you’ll want to use your instant cast skills on proper targets too. For example as a necro while taunted, you can’t death shroud and Doom a proper target. A ranger couldn’t cast sick’em on a thief properly. A Fresh Air elementalist couldn’t Air spike a proper target.
There’s various problems created for instant cast skills, but I think the biggest issue is not being able to use enemy targeted stun breaks properly (like Judge’s Intervention). Your stun break should save you from CC, not force you into a bad position, and I can guarentee that teams would abuse this behavior to put players using these kinds of stun breaks in situations where they have no good options to use.
Sylvari Elementalist – Mystree Duskbloom (Lv 80)
Norn Guardian – Aurora Lustyr (Lv 80)
Mia A Shadows Glow – Human Thief (Lv 80)
Norn Guardian – Aurora Lustyr (Lv 80)
Mia A Shadows Glow – Human Thief (Lv 80)
Taunts working as intended, just swap target as soon as it ends, it’s not that hard. Part of the power of taunt is specifically this functionality, and isn’t a “UI error”. I hate losing my target when people stealth, when it COULD hold my target even if I wasn’t able to see them/lock skills on them until it was over, but it’s part of the mechanic. Just gotta learn to deal with it.
Personally, it’s my opinion that instant spells (other than attunement change, weapon swap, death shroud, kit changes, and stun breaks) shouldn’t even be usable while hard CCed. Seems like lazy programming as a result of not having a cast bar to me.
(I play nothing with taunt, but it’s my opinion on it.)
And what about plague signet , signet of air/midnight, judges intervention,… ?
EverythingOP
Taunts working as intended, just swap target as soon as it ends, it’s not that hard. Part of the power of taunt is specifically this functionality, and isn’t a “UI error”. I hate losing my target when people stealth, when it COULD hold my target even if I wasn’t able to see them/lock skills on them until it was over, but it’s part of the mechanic. Just gotta learn to deal with it.
Personally, it’s my opinion that instant spells (other than attunement change, weapon swap, death shroud, kit changes, and stun breaks) shouldn’t even be usable while hard CCed. Seems like lazy programming as a result of not having a cast bar to me.
(I play nothing with taunt, but it’s my opinion on it.)
And what about plague signet , signet of air/midnight, judges intervention,… ?
Those are stun breaks. Should work as usual, but only on the taunted target. If it doesn’t, I’d call that a bug. If your complaint is that you can’t JI someone else while taunted, I simply disagree, a taunt is a taunt.
High Warlord Sikari (80 Reaper) / Lord Siekron (80 DH)
Warlord Sikari (80 Scrapper)
Warlord Sikari (80 Scrapper)
Taunts working as intended, just swap target as soon as it ends, it’s not that hard. Part of the power of taunt is specifically this functionality, and isn’t a “UI error”. I hate losing my target when people stealth, when it COULD hold my target even if I wasn’t able to see them/lock skills on them until it was over, but it’s part of the mechanic. Just gotta learn to deal with it.
Personally, it’s my opinion that instant spells (other than attunement change, weapon swap, death shroud, kit changes, and stun breaks) shouldn’t even be usable while hard CCed. Seems like lazy programming as a result of not having a cast bar to me.
(I play nothing with taunt, but it’s my opinion on it.)
And what about plague signet , signet of air/midnight, judges intervention,… ?
Those are stun breaks. Should work as usual, but only on the taunted target. If it doesn’t, I’d call that a bug. If your complaint is that you can’t JI someone else while taunted, I simply disagree, a taunt is a taunt.
So you say that can’t JI to another target because of the forcibly attacking part of taunt? Do you then also think that it should be so that it wouldn’t be possible to JI towards the applier when feared becaus the focibly retreating from the target part?
EverythingOP
Taunts working as intended, just swap target as soon as it ends, it’s not that hard. Part of the power of taunt is specifically this functionality, and isn’t a “UI error”. I hate losing my target when people stealth, when it COULD hold my target even if I wasn’t able to see them/lock skills on them until it was over, but it’s part of the mechanic. Just gotta learn to deal with it.
Personally, it’s my opinion that instant spells (other than attunement change, weapon swap, death shroud, kit changes, and stun breaks) shouldn’t even be usable while hard CCed. Seems like lazy programming as a result of not having a cast bar to me.
(I play nothing with taunt, but it’s my opinion on it.)
And what about plague signet , signet of air/midnight, judges intervention,… ?
Those are stun breaks. Should work as usual, but only on the taunted target. If it doesn’t, I’d call that a bug. If your complaint is that you can’t JI someone else while taunted, I simply disagree, a taunt is a taunt.
So you say that can’t JI to another target because of the forcibly attacking part of taunt? Do you then also think that it should be so that it wouldn’t be possible to JI towards the applier when feared becaus the focibly retreating from the target part?
My rebuttal.
Taunt: Forces to target a certain player. Skills, utilities, etc effects that player only as per what the devs have said previously.
Fear: Runs the opposite direction. Doesn’t say anything about can or can’t target another player. BUT the fear should stay on the target through and through, as long as the fear condition is active. Not sure if that is or isn’t the case with Fear… but it should be.
aka FalseLights
Rank: Top 250 since Season 2
#5 best gerdien in wurld
Rank: Top 250 since Season 2
#5 best gerdien in wurld
(edited by Saiyan.1704)
Taunts working as intended, just swap target as soon as it ends, it’s not that hard. Part of the power of taunt is specifically this functionality, and isn’t a “UI error”. I hate losing my target when people stealth, when it COULD hold my target even if I wasn’t able to see them/lock skills on them until it was over, but it’s part of the mechanic. Just gotta learn to deal with it.
Personally, it’s my opinion that instant spells (other than attunement change, weapon swap, death shroud, kit changes, and stun breaks) shouldn’t even be usable while hard CCed. Seems like lazy programming as a result of not having a cast bar to me.
(I play nothing with taunt, but it’s my opinion on it.)
And what about plague signet , signet of air/midnight, judges intervention,… ?
Those are stun breaks. Should work as usual, but only on the taunted target. If it doesn’t, I’d call that a bug. If your complaint is that you can’t JI someone else while taunted, I simply disagree, a taunt is a taunt.
So you say that can’t JI to another target because of the forcibly attacking part of taunt? Do you then also think that it should be so that it wouldn’t be possible to JI towards the applier when feared becaus the focibly retreating from the target part?
No, a stun break is a stun break. It holds that functionality. But who your attack is directed at, until you are no longer taunted, will be the person you’re aggressive to.
Being afraid of someone doesn’t necessarily mean you lose focus of someone (typically just the opposite), so I see no issue with how fear works. Taunt is literally doing what taunt says it would do, which is, as long as it’s up, it forces you to only attack that person, regardless if that attack is tied to your stunbreak or not. This is how metas are made. Use a different stunbreak (Can’t medi have 2-3 depending on build?). I don’t think it’s that farfetched to try to get people to use different skills with new mechanics. Meditations are already super dominant on Guardians, and they just so happen to get the short end of the stuck of a very valid mechanic. It happens. But guess what, I main a Necromancer, I won’t be able to Doom anyone else either, which can often be vital to stop a stomp or otherwise. Just gotta adapt.
High Warlord Sikari (80 Reaper) / Lord Siekron (80 DH)
Warlord Sikari (80 Scrapper)
Warlord Sikari (80 Scrapper)
Taunts working as intended, just swap target as soon as it ends, it’s not that hard. Part of the power of taunt is specifically this functionality, and isn’t a “UI error”. I hate losing my target when people stealth, when it COULD hold my target even if I wasn’t able to see them/lock skills on them until it was over, but it’s part of the mechanic. Just gotta learn to deal with it.
Personally, it’s my opinion that instant spells (other than attunement change, weapon swap, death shroud, kit changes, and stun breaks) shouldn’t even be usable while hard CCed. Seems like lazy programming as a result of not having a cast bar to me.
(I play nothing with taunt, but it’s my opinion on it.)
And what about plague signet , signet of air/midnight, judges intervention,… ?
Those are stun breaks. Should work as usual, but only on the taunted target. If it doesn’t, I’d call that a bug. If your complaint is that you can’t JI someone else while taunted, I simply disagree, a taunt is a taunt.
So you say that can’t JI to another target because of the forcibly attacking part of taunt? Do you then also think that it should be so that it wouldn’t be possible to JI towards the applier when feared becaus the focibly retreating from the target part?
My rebuttal.
Taunt: Forces to target a certain player. Skills, utilities, etc effects that player only.
Fear: Runs the oposite direction. Doesn’t say anything about can or can’t target another player. BUT the fear should stay on the target through and through, as long as the fear condition is active. Not sure if that is or isn’t the case with Fear… but it should be.
Fear:“Involuntary retreat; unable to act; stacks duration.”
This is the description of fear. Why should fear which forces you to retreat allow the usage of advance skills while taunt doesn’t allow attacking another target?
EverythingOP
(edited by Tim.6450)
Taunts working as intended, just swap target as soon as it ends, it’s not that hard. Part of the power of taunt is specifically this functionality, and isn’t a “UI error”. I hate losing my target when people stealth, when it COULD hold my target even if I wasn’t able to see them/lock skills on them until it was over, but it’s part of the mechanic. Just gotta learn to deal with it.
Personally, it’s my opinion that instant spells (other than attunement change, weapon swap, death shroud, kit changes, and stun breaks) shouldn’t even be usable while hard CCed. Seems like lazy programming as a result of not having a cast bar to me.
(I play nothing with taunt, but it’s my opinion on it.)
And what about plague signet , signet of air/midnight, judges intervention,… ?
Those are stun breaks. Should work as usual, but only on the taunted target. If it doesn’t, I’d call that a bug. If your complaint is that you can’t JI someone else while taunted, I simply disagree, a taunt is a taunt.
So you say that can’t JI to another target because of the forcibly attacking part of taunt? Do you then also think that it should be so that it wouldn’t be possible to JI towards the applier when feared becaus the focibly retreating from the target part?
No, a stun break is a stun break. It holds that functionality. But who your attack is directed at, until you are no longer taunted, will be the person you’re aggressive to.
Being afraid of someone doesn’t necessarily mean you lose focus of someone (typically just the opposite), so I see no issue with how fear works. Taunt is literally doing what taunt says it would do, which is, as long as it’s up, it forces you to only attack that person, regardless if that attack is tied to your stunbreak or not. This is how metas are made. Use a different stunbreak (Can’t medi have 2-3 depending on build?). I don’t think it’s that farfetched to try to get people to use different skills with new mechanics. Meditations are already super dominant on Guardians, and they just so happen to get the short end of the stuck of a very valid mechanic. It happens. But guess what, I main a Necromancer, I won’t be able to Doom anyone else either, which can often be vital to stop a stomp or otherwise. Just gotta adapt.
If you are truly afraid of something are you going to move towards the danger? Fear is not doing what it says it does, it forces you to retreat, yet JI clearly makes the user advance. That is a discrepancy, so why should it apply for fear and not taunt?
Also please don’t start the adapt speach I will adapt as well but I find the functionality clearly not a good idea for the usage of a targetted stunbreaks.
EverythingOP
Taunts working as intended, just swap target as soon as it ends, it’s not that hard. Part of the power of taunt is specifically this functionality, and isn’t a “UI error”. I hate losing my target when people stealth, when it COULD hold my target even if I wasn’t able to see them/lock skills on them until it was over, but it’s part of the mechanic. Just gotta learn to deal with it.
Personally, it’s my opinion that instant spells (other than attunement change, weapon swap, death shroud, kit changes, and stun breaks) shouldn’t even be usable while hard CCed. Seems like lazy programming as a result of not having a cast bar to me.
(I play nothing with taunt, but it’s my opinion on it.)
And what about plague signet , signet of air/midnight, judges intervention,… ?
Those are stun breaks. Should work as usual, but only on the taunted target. If it doesn’t, I’d call that a bug. If your complaint is that you can’t JI someone else while taunted, I simply disagree, a taunt is a taunt.
So you say that can’t JI to another target because of the forcibly attacking part of taunt? Do you then also think that it should be so that it wouldn’t be possible to JI towards the applier when feared becaus the focibly retreating from the target part?
My rebuttal.
Taunt: Forces to target a certain player. Skills, utilities, etc effects that player only.
Fear: Runs the oposite direction. Doesn’t say anything about can or can’t target another player. BUT the fear should stay on the target through and through, as long as the fear condition is active. Not sure if that is or isn’t the case with Fear… but it should be.
Fear:“Involuntary retreat; unable to act; stacks duration.”
This is the description of fear. Why should fear which forces you to retreat allow the usage of an advance skills while taunt doesn’t allow attacking another target?
You can use advanced skills with Taunt (from my understanding). Stuns breaks work on Fear, it should work with Taunt as well. If it doesn’t then there’s a bug.
aka FalseLights
Rank: Top 250 since Season 2
#5 best gerdien in wurld
Rank: Top 250 since Season 2
#5 best gerdien in wurld
Taunts working as intended, just swap target as soon as it ends, it’s not that hard. Part of the power of taunt is specifically this functionality, and isn’t a “UI error”. I hate losing my target when people stealth, when it COULD hold my target even if I wasn’t able to see them/lock skills on them until it was over, but it’s part of the mechanic. Just gotta learn to deal with it.
Personally, it’s my opinion that instant spells (other than attunement change, weapon swap, death shroud, kit changes, and stun breaks) shouldn’t even be usable while hard CCed. Seems like lazy programming as a result of not having a cast bar to me.
(I play nothing with taunt, but it’s my opinion on it.)
And what about plague signet , signet of air/midnight, judges intervention,… ?
Those are stun breaks. Should work as usual, but only on the taunted target. If it doesn’t, I’d call that a bug. If your complaint is that you can’t JI someone else while taunted, I simply disagree, a taunt is a taunt.
So you say that can’t JI to another target because of the forcibly attacking part of taunt? Do you then also think that it should be so that it wouldn’t be possible to JI towards the applier when feared becaus the focibly retreating from the target part?
My rebuttal.
Taunt: Forces to target a certain player. Skills, utilities, etc effects that player only.
Fear: Runs the oposite direction. Doesn’t say anything about can or can’t target another player. BUT the fear should stay on the target through and through, as long as the fear condition is active. Not sure if that is or isn’t the case with Fear… but it should be.
Fear:“Involuntary retreat; unable to act; stacks duration.”
This is the description of fear. Why should fear which forces you to retreat allow the usage of an advance skills while taunt doesn’t allow attacking another target?
You can use advanced skills with Taunt (from my understanding). Stuns breaks work on Fear, it should work with Taunt as well. If it doesn’t then there’s a bug.
You misunderstood taunt prevents it effect the target from attacking other players, while fear doesn’t prevent the target from advancing. That is what is strange and unbalanced to me.
EverythingOP
Fear and Taunt should just be removed. Standard CC is fine, but having something take control of your character? NOPE, not balanced, and certainly not fun.
Doctor Beetus – Burst Engi Maguuma
twitch.tv/doctorbeetus
twitch.tv/doctorbeetus
What I’m pointing out is that as a stunbreak you have to “waste” that secondary effect on that pet just to stunbreak unlike any other stunbreak in this game. In my eyes that is unbalanced.
Having to deal with a ranger pet for once is unbalanced? Ok.
Win10 pro | Xeon 5650 @ 4 GHz | R9 280x toxic | 24 Gig Ram | Process Lasso user
What I’m pointing out is that as a stunbreak you have to “waste” that secondary effect on that pet just to stunbreak unlike any other stunbreak in this game. In my eyes that is unbalanced.
Having to deal with a ranger pet for once is unbalanced? Ok.
This is not only about the ranger, ok? It’s about taunt in general especially when the revenant gets out or other classes get taunt like what happend with torment. Also you always have to deal with pets in some way (stupid wolfs and their cc).
EverythingOP
Taunts working as intended, just swap target as soon as it ends, it’s not that hard. Part of the power of taunt is specifically this functionality, and isn’t a “UI error”. I hate losing my target when people stealth, when it COULD hold my target even if I wasn’t able to see them/lock skills on them until it was over, but it’s part of the mechanic. Just gotta learn to deal with it.
Personally, it’s my opinion that instant spells (other than attunement change, weapon swap, death shroud, kit changes, and stun breaks) shouldn’t even be usable while hard CCed. Seems like lazy programming as a result of not having a cast bar to me.
(I play nothing with taunt, but it’s my opinion on it.)
And what about plague signet , signet of air/midnight, judges intervention,… ?
Those are stun breaks. Should work as usual, but only on the taunted target. If it doesn’t, I’d call that a bug. If your complaint is that you can’t JI someone else while taunted, I simply disagree, a taunt is a taunt.
So you say that can’t JI to another target because of the forcibly attacking part of taunt? Do you then also think that it should be so that it wouldn’t be possible to JI towards the applier when feared becaus the focibly retreating from the target part?
My rebuttal.
Taunt: Forces to target a certain player. Skills, utilities, etc effects that player only.
Fear: Runs the oposite direction. Doesn’t say anything about can or can’t target another player. BUT the fear should stay on the target through and through, as long as the fear condition is active. Not sure if that is or isn’t the case with Fear… but it should be.
Fear:“Involuntary retreat; unable to act; stacks duration.”
This is the description of fear. Why should fear which forces you to retreat allow the usage of an advance skills while taunt doesn’t allow attacking another target?
You can use advanced skills with Taunt (from my understanding). Stuns breaks work on Fear, it should work with Taunt as well. If it doesn’t then there’s a bug.
You misunderstood taunt prevents it effect the target from attacking other players, while fear doesn’t prevent the target from advancing. That is what is strange and unbalanced to me.
So what we agree is, as long as the Taunt condition is affecting a player, you have to target that player. As long as a player doesn’t use a stunbreak, he should always be attacking that player for as long as he has the Taunt condition.
As for switching targets while under the mechanics of Taunt condition, I think that’s a coding issue. It make be as simple as, a player can’t attack another player if he doesn’t have him targeted. They would have to add additional coding… IF this should even be allowed.
Either Target Switching under CC should be allowed on both Fear and Taunt, or it shouldn’t be allowed for either conditions. I think that’s fair.
aka FalseLights
Rank: Top 250 since Season 2
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It does what it says and I find it interesting. If it was simple to get around, it wouldn’t serve a unique purpose at all. You can still stun break it, you can still JI that person and dodge away, you don’t have TOTAL control, but that’s some-what the point.
Your Fear example where “you only want to run away” doesn’t make any sense because JI is still a stun break (covering all CC). That’s why it makes you advance. It does the exact same thing to the person you taunt, except you can’t re-direct.
Guess what? If taunted and you use Lightning Reflexes, you still retreat. No different than JIing out of fear. Just get over the fact that you don’t have perfect control WHILE being taunted (aka, it doing it’s job).
If you could swap targets, you could still DPS your primary target with certain instant skills and taunting wouldn’t be taunting at all… Just take the taunt break and be happy that you’re no longer taunted, then swap to your primary target.
Most taunts are short anyways. And if you REALLY need to get to one target, you might have to break the fear another way, then JI to your target that you want. In which case, I’d say you were getting outplayed. That’s good.
High Warlord Sikari (80 Reaper) / Lord Siekron (80 DH)
Warlord Sikari (80 Scrapper)
Warlord Sikari (80 Scrapper)
Taunts working as intended, just swap target as soon as it ends, it’s not that hard. Part of the power of taunt is specifically this functionality, and isn’t a “UI error”. I hate losing my target when people stealth, when it COULD hold my target even if I wasn’t able to see them/lock skills on them until it was over, but it’s part of the mechanic. Just gotta learn to deal with it.
Personally, it’s my opinion that instant spells (other than attunement change, weapon swap, death shroud, kit changes, and stun breaks) shouldn’t even be usable while hard CCed. Seems like lazy programming as a result of not having a cast bar to me.
(I play nothing with taunt, but it’s my opinion on it.)
And what about plague signet , signet of air/midnight, judges intervention,… ?
Those are stun breaks. Should work as usual, but only on the taunted target. If it doesn’t, I’d call that a bug. If your complaint is that you can’t JI someone else while taunted, I simply disagree, a taunt is a taunt.
So you say that can’t JI to another target because of the forcibly attacking part of taunt? Do you then also think that it should be so that it wouldn’t be possible to JI towards the applier when feared becaus the focibly retreating from the target part?
My rebuttal.
Taunt: Forces to target a certain player. Skills, utilities, etc effects that player only.
Fear: Runs the oposite direction. Doesn’t say anything about can or can’t target another player. BUT the fear should stay on the target through and through, as long as the fear condition is active. Not sure if that is or isn’t the case with Fear… but it should be.
Fear:“Involuntary retreat; unable to act; stacks duration.”
This is the description of fear. Why should fear which forces you to retreat allow the usage of an advance skills while taunt doesn’t allow attacking another target?
You can use advanced skills with Taunt (from my understanding). Stuns breaks work on Fear, it should work with Taunt as well. If it doesn’t then there’s a bug.
You misunderstood taunt prevents it effect the target from attacking other players, while fear doesn’t prevent the target from advancing. That is what is strange and unbalanced to me.
So what we agree is, as long as the Taunt condition is affecting a player, you have to target that player. As long as a player doesn’t use a stunbreak, he should always be attacking that player for as long as he has the Taunt condition.
As for switching targets while under the mechanics of Taunt condition, I think that’s a coding issue. It make be as simple as, a player can’t attack another player if he doesn’t have him targeted. They would have to add additional coding… IF this should even be allowed.
Either Target Switching under CC should be allowed on both Fear and Taunt, or it shouldn’t be allowed for either conditions. I think that’s fair.
The reason Taunt does this is it very clearly is intended to make sure anything that person does is directed at the taunter, Fear doesn’t really have that intention, it’s just a “get away from me”. Like I had said, if you could swap targets while taunted, much like JI itself, you could use instant attacks on your main target, and taunt wouldn’t really be serving it’s ultimate purpose, which is to redirect a person’s assault to the taunter and protect allies.
High Warlord Sikari (80 Reaper) / Lord Siekron (80 DH)
Warlord Sikari (80 Scrapper)
Warlord Sikari (80 Scrapper)
taunt wouldn’t really be serving it’s ultimate purpose, which is to redirect a person’s assault to the taunter and protect allies.
Thats the strange thing taunt is never descibed in that way, it’s more an interpretation comming from somewhere else. The only thing it does is running towards the target and forcing auto attack on said target nothing said about preventing other targets to be selected. Also does taunt mean that I can’t throw well of power on my enemies when traited or prevent from using blink towards another enemy? This effect of directing assult is only for targetted skills which is strange(couldn’t find a better word to describe it).
EverythingOP
taunt wouldn’t really be serving it’s ultimate purpose, which is to redirect a person’s assault to the taunter and protect allies.
The only thing it does is running towards the target and forcing auto attack on said target (…) Also does taunt mean that I can’t throw well of power on my enemies when traited or prevent from using blink towards another enemy? This effect of directing assult is only for targetted skills (…)
Yup. That’s exactly what it’s intended to do. I don’t see anything strange about it, other than the fact that it’s a new condition that people aren’t used to.
aka FalseLights
Rank: Top 250 since Season 2
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Rank: Top 250 since Season 2
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It has to set the target on pet.
Otherwise, Attacks like Blood Curse, Rending Claws, Mesmer GS wouldn’t work.
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And many people ignore the fact that it requires the pet in point blank range (240 radius ONLY), and drastically put your pet in harms way during a zerg fight. Also, it only lasts 2 seconds and currently there’s no other method to chain them, so it’s always just 2 seconds.
People talking about the pulling feature. Yeah it pulls the target toward harm, but guess what, mesmer, engi, thief do this infinitely better! Their skills has at least 900 range, and pulls for a much longer distance. Seriously, complaining about a 2 sec point blank pull is just silly, while there’re other much more powerful CC out there.
Not to mention if ranger pick Beastly Warden, they’re sacrificing that crucial quickness trait too, that greatly hinders ranger’s dps burst potential.
(edited by Toxsa.2701)
Taunts working as intended, just swap target as soon as it ends, it’s not that hard. Part of the power of taunt is specifically this functionality, and isn’t a “UI error”. I hate losing my target when people stealth, when it COULD hold my target even if I wasn’t able to see them/lock skills on them until it was over, but it’s part of the mechanic. Just gotta learn to deal with it.
Personally, it’s my opinion that instant spells (other than attunement change, weapon swap, death shroud, kit changes, and stun breaks) shouldn’t even be usable while hard CCed. Seems like lazy programming as a result of not having a cast bar to me.
(I play nothing with taunt, but it’s my opinion on it.)
And what about plague signet , signet of air/midnight, judges intervention,… ?
Those are stun breaks. Should work as usual, but only on the taunted target. If it doesn’t, I’d call that a bug. If your complaint is that you can’t JI someone else while taunted, I simply disagree, a taunt is a taunt.
So you say that can’t JI to another target because of the forcibly attacking part of taunt? Do you then also think that it should be so that it wouldn’t be possible to JI towards the applier when feared becaus the focibly retreating from the target part?
My rebuttal.
Taunt: Forces to target a certain player. Skills, utilities, etc effects that player only.
Fear: Runs the oposite direction. Doesn’t say anything about can or can’t target another player. BUT the fear should stay on the target through and through, as long as the fear condition is active. Not sure if that is or isn’t the case with Fear… but it should be.
Fear:“Involuntary retreat; unable to act; stacks duration.”
This is the description of fear. Why should fear which forces you to retreat allow the usage of an advance skills while taunt doesn’t allow attacking another target?
You can use advanced skills with Taunt (from my understanding). Stuns breaks work on Fear, it should work with Taunt as well. If it doesn’t then there’s a bug.
You misunderstood taunt prevents it effect the target from attacking other players, while fear doesn’t prevent the target from advancing. That is what is strange and unbalanced to me.
You also forgot the fact that fear is a condition that can be stacked in duration and prolonged by + condition duration traits/ gears/runes while taunt is a control effect that cannot be enhanced or stacked in any ways.
Those 2 are NOT the opposite of each other. They’re 2 completely different type of CC that should work differently. Stop using Fear as an excuse because taunt is not even a condition to begin with. Currently you can cast those instant skills on your preferred while being feared, but if you can do the same while being TAUNTED, then the taunt does not serve it’s purpose at all, which is to force the enemy to target the caster. Anything that can help you hit the none-taunted target breaks the purpose of the taunt completely. You’re suppose to go crazy and focus on the taunt caster while being taunted, otherwise you’re not being taunted at all!
Stunbreaks have always trumped cc effects with no restrictions.
Taunt places a targeting restriction on cc.
Considering all targeted cc skills were designed without that mechanic, and that the taunt exception is significant (for example, infil signet won’t gap close on a target of choice any more), the change makes all affected, targeted cc’s function in a way they were NOT designed, and they suffer for it.
In my opinion, that’s pretty terrible. Targeting elsewhere should absolutely be allowed while taunted (and to clarify, while taunted you should still only be auto attacking the taunter, non-stunbreaks all disabled). It seems more like a design oversight than anything else. It’s essentially a generic nerf bomb to a lot of skills rather than a tweak to anything specific. It’s almost impossible for anything with that broad of a game impact to be anywhere near balanced.
Stunbreaks have always trumped cc effects with no restrictions.
Taunt places a targeting restriction on cc.
Considering all targeted cc skills were designed without that mechanic, and that the taunt exception is significant (for example, infil signet won’t gap close on a target of choice any more), the change makes all affected, targeted cc’s function in a way they were NOT designed, and they suffer for it.
In my opinion, that’s pretty terrible. Targeting elsewhere should absolutely be allowed while taunted (and to clarify, while taunted you should still only be auto attacking the taunter, non-stunbreaks all disabled). It seems more like a design oversight than anything else. It’s essentially a generic nerf bomb to a lot of skills rather than a tweak to anything specific. It’s almost impossible for anything with that broad of a game impact to be anywhere near balanced.
The idea is that when taunted you’re “forced” to have the taunted as your target of choice. It’s a new effect, but it’s doing exactly what it’s intended to do. You just happen to not enjoy the side effects of said new mechanic. But that’s what tanks/Taunters DO, they force targets to leave allies alone. By all accounts your skills work perfectly fine except that it’s not the target you ultimately would like it to affect, but it still does what it says to your target. It’s a new counter play, that frankly, didn’t really have a counter play anyways, including current stuns. Accept that things change, and also realize, as far as we’ve seen, taunt is not very common.
High Warlord Sikari (80 Reaper) / Lord Siekron (80 DH)
Warlord Sikari (80 Scrapper)
Warlord Sikari (80 Scrapper)
Taunt is a mechanic that causes players to only autoattackthe target, that has been stated.
It is basically: Walk towards and Autoattack the target.
So it makes sense, it isn’t a stun, or a daze, or a knockback, it is a taunt, a new mechanic.
That’s perfectly fine but why does it have to change my target to achieve that? And deny me from targeting anyone else for the time of taunt.
One perfect reason.
If you were able to select another target and keep auto-attacking the caster of the Taunt (Ranger’s pet)…
Can you remember what Ranger’s Sword #1 Auto-Attack does? Well yes – it would send you flying all around the map like an idiot. And that wouldn’t be intended. And no, sadly, I am not aware of a coding system that would prevent you from hitting a specific target while having a completely different one targeted.
Ranger’s Sword sequence is the answer you have been looking for.
Moreover, this is a new mechanic with new functionality. Which means working as intended. Without flaws such as the one I just explained.
“Observe, learn and counter.”
… Taunt is not very common.
Good point.
After thinking about it in the ranger context, I’d say ranger skill is fine (ranger is underpowered and needs the buff), but the mechanic should absolutely not go to other professions (Someone above said Mesmer has it? Please say it breaks the shatter build to take it.).
I am really just concerned about taunt as a general mechanic since it nerfs a wide variety of skills in ways that, by all estimation, needed no nerfing (there are no widely supported threads calling infil signet and judge’s intervention OP, much less all targeted stunbreaks affected).
Tl; dr I changed my mind and believe this is fine on underpowered rangers but hell no if Anet wants to give it to other professions.
Thanks for the discussion and different POV.
(edited by Placebo Effect.4508)
Tl; dr I changed my mind and believe this is fine on underpowered rangers but hell no if Anet wants to give it to other professions.
Rangers underpowered? What year is it?!
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kitten , gw2 players need to get good, They complain about everything. No wonder Top Tier treat the forum as a joke.
Taunt OP? Cmon its on a 20 second cooldown. lasts for how many seconds, 2? what? you are seriously complaining about that?
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… Taunt is not very common.
Good point.
After thinking about it in the ranger context, I’d say ranger skill is fine (ranger is underpowered and needs the buff), but the mechanic should absolutely not go to other professions (Someone above said Mesmer has it? Please say it breaks the shatter build to take it.).
I am really just concerned about taunt as a general mechanic since it nerfs a wide variety of skills in ways that, by all estimation, needed no nerfing (there are no widely supported threads calling infil signet and judge’s intervention OP, much less all targeted stunbreaks affected).
Tl; dr I changed my mind and believe this is fine on underpowered rangers but hell no if Anet wants to give it to other professions.
Thanks for the discussion and different POV.
I… I don’t believe mesmers do have it. Currently, no profession has it except ranger’s pet. Chronomancer will specialize in Slow, but not Taunt. Only Taunt skills I know of is Ranger taunt and Revenant Jalis (which is literally the “tank” Legend). I believe they’re purposefully keeping it very limited as a unique feature for select team support builds.
High Warlord Sikari (80 Reaper) / Lord Siekron (80 DH)
Warlord Sikari (80 Scrapper)
Warlord Sikari (80 Scrapper)
I don’t know if this was mentioned, but I think the problem with the side effect of taunt is a programming one.
Based on my limited programming knowledge, I’d say taunt does these things.
1. locks the target of the affected character to the source of the taunt
2. forces characters under taunt to run to(and attack) the target
I assume the reason they did this was for simplicity. I think some of you forget that there are few targeting options in the game that would have a negative effect on taunt, the biggest suspect would be “Stop autoattacking on target change” which could be exploited to prevent attacking the source of the taunt.
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The idea is that when taunted you’re “forced” to have the taunted as your target of choice. It’s a new effect, but it’s doing exactly what it’s intended to do.
Can you tell me where it is described that this is its intended effect?
EverythingOP
The idea is that when taunted you’re “forced” to have the taunted as your target of choice. It’s a new effect, but it’s doing exactly what it’s intended to do.
Can you tell me where it is described that this is its intended effect?
Do you know what a taunt is? Or the purpose? Simple knowledge of background on effect types, coupled with how they clearly designed it should be enough. I don’t think it’s reasonable to write a paragraph on each tooltip for each little detail in includes. It says you involuntarily attack a specific target. Hence; your JI being aimed at the taunted is involuntary. Otherwise, the skills still work as intended, it still breaks the taunt.
High Warlord Sikari (80 Reaper) / Lord Siekron (80 DH)
Warlord Sikari (80 Scrapper)
Warlord Sikari (80 Scrapper)
The idea is that when taunted you’re “forced” to have the taunted as your target of choice. It’s a new effect, but it’s doing exactly what it’s intended to do.
Can you tell me where it is described that this is its intended effect?
Do you know what a taunt is? Or the purpose? Simple knowledge of background on effect types, coupled with how they clearly designed it should be enough. I don’t think it’s reasonable to write a paragraph on each tooltip for each little detail in includes. It says you involuntarily attack a specific target. Hence; your JI being aimed at the taunted is involuntary. Otherwise, the skills still work as intended, it still breaks the taunt.
I really cannot understand how target locking is the purpose of taunt. The purpose is you’re unwillingly forced to attack something else, which is totally okay. However, why should you be unable to target whatever you want? And no stealth doesn’t work the same way, since someone going in stealth won’t make you cced.
It says you involuntarily attack a specific target. Hence; your JI being aimed at the taunted is involuntary. Otherwise, the skills still work as intended, it still breaks the taunt.
Yet fear which forces you to involuntarily retreat does not have this kind of functionality.
EverythingOP
Taunt is a mechanic that causes players to only autoattackthe target, that has been stated.
It is basically: Walk towards and Autoattack the target.
So it makes sense, it isn’t a stun, or a daze, or a knockback, it is a taunt, a new mechanic.
That’s perfectly fine but why does it have to change my target to achieve that? And deny me from targeting anyone else for the time of taunt.
Because of poor design.
The idea is that you spam your AA against whoever taunted you. But skills don’t work that way that you can just select another target and keep casting skills against the first.
skills are used against the target you have selected. So if you could switch targets while taunted, and select someone else, your AA-spam would then also be directed at whoever you have selected. That is simply how skills work.
I don’t like it either as it makes Taunt a particularly powerful CC. It prevents actions like a stun, displaces you against your will, forces your target and gets you to spam-proc effects you might not want (i.e. confusion/retal).
Imo Taunt should be nerfed. Does to much. It either needs an above average cooldown and/or a below average duration, for a CC. Or some of it’s effects shaved off.
Taunt is a mechanic that causes players to only autoattackthe target, that has been stated.
It is basically: Walk towards and Autoattack the target.
So it makes sense, it isn’t a stun, or a daze, or a knockback, it is a taunt, a new mechanic.
That’s perfectly fine but why does it have to change my target to achieve that? And deny me from targeting anyone else for the time of taunt.
Because of poor design.
The idea is that you spam your AA against whoever taunted you. But skills don’t work that way that you can just select another target and keep casting skills against the first.
skills are used against the target you have selected. So if you could switch targets while taunted, and select someone else, your AA-spam would then also be directed at whoever you have selected. That is simply how skills work.
I don’t like it either as it makes Taunt a particularly powerful CC. It prevents actions like a stun, displaces you against your will, forces your target and gets you to spam-proc effects you might not want (i.e. confusion/retal).
Imo Taunt should be nerfed. Does to much. It either needs an above average cooldown and/or a below average duration, for a CC. Or some of it’s effects shaved off.
Yeah, nerfing a short 2 sec CC which has long cd, poor range (melee range) and can only be activated by worthless and stupid pets. Bravo.
Thanks for ignoring Mesmer’s quadruple 1.5 sec stun, perman stealth, 20k burst in 1.5 sec, and so on.
The pet is the one taunting so it completely makes sense imo you’re stuck on the pet.
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I knew the whining about taunt would come sooner or later. Only one class has it and it can only happen every 20 seconds. Now, it currently goes through block and invulns right now should be fixed but if you do ANYTHING else to taunt, you will make it COMPLETELY worthless. I cannot stress that enough. It has a unique purpose.
This is just wrong it still has the function of a regular cc, moving towards the target is also usefull.
I know because ranger has it, the most hated class in the game yet hasn’t seen a top tier tournament final in nearly a year (apex w/ nnight and he plays mesmer nowww) that doesn’t mean it’s deemed automatically OP at all… Also if you have teleport (thief / mes) you can use that or any other stun break that doesn’t require a target. Quit kittening whining already, also STEAL ISN’T A STUN BREAK that’s why you can’t use it while taunted.
First I don’t care if the ranger got it, the guardian got it or an engineer got it. The target lock is beyond what control skills should have.
I really wish these hotjoin heroes would quit whining and worry about more important issues like tank eles, mesmer burst w/ survivability, burning stack dmg, engi 100 nades bug, etc etc etc….
Anet knows these plights from the player we got threads enough about that.
If you nerf taunt, you will nerf rangers even MORE than what they already are to be honest, the class is is in the bottom bracket out of ALL classes right now in terms of team viability in top tier pvp. Taunt isn’t even a gamechanger for ranger anyway lol.
Allowing targetting another character during a cc will not hurt ranger that much.
You can use stun breaks to get rid of it. Enough said, get over it and quit whining.
No, you quit whining about your ranger, Tim has it right.
How does he have it right? When you get cc’d you stun break, this is a concept that has ALWAYS been in the game as a defensive against CC. Is this very concept suddenly a new concept for you? All taunt is , is a new CC. Whether what target you have selected or not you can use a stun break and it cancels the CC. Bring stun breaks and you should be fine. Why is there so much whining about this? The hotjoin heroes are real.
Arguably some stun breaks have associated, targeted effects attached to them. So by not being able to have them against an appropriate target can make the result “not like other cc effects”.
Other classes will receive taunt but i think on ranger pet is very strong cuz you’re forced to hit a pet instead of a player.
I think general effect is fine but You need to fix the fact it goes through evaded, invul, block etc.
It’s too strong right now
So it sounds like the main problem the op has with the thing is that even though he is forced to attack the pet and target it for the duration of the taunt the problem lies in that during the taunt without changing the effects of the taunt previously mentioned that he can’t have another target selected for after the effect ends. Did I get that right? To which I ask, isn’t that just an opposite effect of stealth? It forces you to retarget with the added bonus of not having to be a CC which you must land and is something that you cast on yourself so there’s no “missing” a stealth like a taunt. Or do you also have problems with that mechanic too? Btw the hitting through invuln is just a complete bug and should be patched, so please don’t include that.
Other classes will receive taunt but i think on ranger pet is very strong cuz you’re forced to hit a pet instead of a player.
I think general effect is fine but You need to fix the fact it goes through evaded, invul, block etc.
It’s too strong right now
I play Ranger allot and use the new Taunt allot, sure it shouldn’t go throw evades and invuls. I don’t see single problem with blocks, Thieve’s dagger #3 goes throw blocks and way more spammable then taunt so whats the problem.
All this QQ about Taunt when Ranger is still the worse class to take in TPvP compared to other classes.
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