Guild Wars 2

Forum bug!!!!!!

Good connexion >= good computer > other things.

Sorry, I can"t resist

Skill > build > matchmaking > profession

A skilled player can make a lot of builds work an unskilled player cant.

If you get matched with 3 thieves against 3 necros its important that you know how to adapt your build for this, and yes… builds can be adjusted for such matchmakings.

Which is why I put profession on last position.

Not much to discuss. Topic is a faulty premise that blatantly oversimplifies reality.

Dahkeus.8243:

Not much to discuss. Topic is a faulty premise that blatantly oversimplifies reality.

Can we get to know why you think so?

Agreed: It is absurd to think that someone with an inherently better build and/or team has a better chance of winning regardless of skill difference.

that baby stealing dingo.7216:

Agreed: It is absurd to think that someone with an inherently better build and/or team has a better chance of winning regardless of skill difference.

Have you taken a look at your opponents arguments?

Team Comp > Build (Class/Gear) > Skill

I’ve noticed in my journey to diamond that team comp matters a lot. I could pretend to be the best tempest in the world but if my team comp is terrible, I’m probably not going to win that game unless the other team is completely braindead.

This along with good communication and rotation skills wind up in me winning most of my games. Individual skill matters when you’re contesting a point or dueling, but in a team game you need to sync up well w/ your other teammates and have good/decent teamwork. Along with a build that meshes well with others.

Uhm, as a necro player to the core… even though I strayed sometimes in the past when necro got hated too much on… winning a teamfight takes even more skill than winning a 1v1.

You have to know which target best, when to switch, whats behind you, whats to the sides of you, keep an eye out for next best target to switch fast… you have to position yourself correctly and so on.
All the while you have to still glance at minimap once in a while so you dont miss that moment you should move to another point to help/decap/whatever.

Imo it takes a lot more skill to fight 4v4… than 1v1. Of course… theres not really that many players that are good at that… they just target something that they hope will die fast… and stand in splash damage all the time, counting on that aurashare ele to heal them, that ranger to rezz them. Which is what makes teamcomp for those players so important.
Without their safety nets, they just die instantly.

Yasi.9065:

Skill > build > matchmaking > profession

A skilled player can make a lot of builds work an unskilled player cant.

If you get matched with 3 thieves against 3 necros its important that you know how to adapt your build for this, and yes… builds can be adjusted for such matchmakings.

Which is why I put profession on last position.

Yeah. But what you are talking about is skill, not victory.

Of course a skilled player will be skilled. And of course skill is a great factor for victory.

But since there’s 5 players. You can’t measure skill as a 100%, but as 500%. Have one player with 100% skill, and 4 players averaging 10. That 500% becomes 140%. MAke them face a team of 65%, and their team is a 325.

And under that situation, Skill is made irrelevant by Team.

Yasi.9065:

Uhm, as a necro player to the core… even though I strayed sometimes in the past when necro got hated too much on… winning a teamfight takes even more skill than winning a 1v1.

You have to know which target best, when to switch, whats behind you, whats to the sides of you, keep an eye out for next best target to switch fast… you have to position yourself correctly and so on.
All the while you have to still glance at minimap once in a while so you dont miss that moment you should move to another point to help/decap/whatever.

Imo it takes a lot more skill to fight 4v4… than 1v1. Of course… theres not really that many players that are good at that… they just target something that they hope will die fast… and stand in splash damage all the time, counting on that aurashare ele to heal them, that ranger to rezz them. Which is what makes teamcomp for those players so important.
Without their safety nets, they just die instantly.

I think a part of the divergence of opinion I see in this thread rest on how people interpret and think of “skill” when they answer. Many here seem to talk aout the overall skill of their team. However. in soloq you do not control who is on your team and the skill and build they have.

Personally, I take the approach that I soloq and what will decide my match is:

My skill (mechanical + decision making)
My build (profession + gear)
Who the system pair me with (along with their skill and their build)

The sum of all the above on each side of the match will compete and the side with the greatest sum/best comp/skill will win.

So, in the end, what I control and have power over is MY build and MY skills. What I do NOT control is the build and decisions of the 4 others I’m paired with as well as the 5 opponents I have to face. THAT is a LOT more you do not control than you control which all compete for victory. So right there, it is delusional to believe that alone, you are THAT big. You can be bigger than others, true, but the difference will be far less spectacular than many like to fancy (I know ppl like to see others than self as filling material but come on).

In that context, how can anybody conclude that what teammate he get and enemy he faces isn’t the most important element in the equation? Your skill and your build is significant, but if you get a bad draw on the team and your opponent doesn’t well…

It is still skill…. neither teamcomp, nor some kind of “collective skill”. Which is why I put it first

So maybe teamskill > personal skill > build > matchmaking > profession?

Yasi.9065:

It is still skill…. neither teamcomp, nor some kind of “collective skill”. Which is why I put it first

So maybe teamskill > personal skill > build > matchmaking > profession?

So the skill of one player, 1 out of 10 who also have decision making abilities, builds and the ability to cap/decap/contest, just like you, trump the larger part of the equation you have no control over anyway? Seem legit…

Let’s say I won’t agree just because you, or anybody else, say so.

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

that baby stealing dingo.7216:

Agreed: It is absurd to think that someone with an inherently better build and/or team has a better chance of winning regardless of skill difference.

Have you taken a look at your opponents arguments?

Yes. Also, I was being sarcastic, sorry. I’m not trying to start a flame war, just posting my opinion.

that baby stealing dingo.7216:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

that baby stealing dingo.7216:

Agreed: It is absurd to think that someone with an inherently better build and/or team has a better chance of winning regardless of skill difference.

Have you taken a look at your opponents arguments?

Yes. Also, I was being sarcastic, sorry. I’m not trying to start a flame war, just posting my opinion.

Ya evil troll :P

i think claiming the biggest part of the equation is the one you are unable to control is a cop out.

Team>Class>Build(that includes gear)>Match Making>Skill.

This is Season 2 in GW2,the way I see it.

NeXeD.3042:

i think claiming the biggest part of the equation is the one you are unable to control is a cop out.

Can I ask how so?

I was under the impression the other 9 players had the same free will you enjoy and to my knowledge 9>1.

You can do you best to try and influence them but if they do not cooperate…

Dude I’m being pretty clear here and you just keep coming back with stuff like please elaborate, I’m lazy man like really lazy. But in my opinion blaming problems on things out of your control is a cop out. I’m really not sure how hard that is to comprehend.

You control yourself so that should be the biggest factor for you, blaming others for losses is a total b move.

Unless of course you can assure me with 100% certainty that you played perfectly no mistakes and perfect rotations then by all means blame everyone else. Then again I’ve seen great players make mistakes

Give abjured team 5 warriors, and i will destroy them 1v5 XD XD XD
Or even give ROM a useless ventari no herald revenant build, and i will kill him with any class XD XD XD.

There’s a reason if everyone plays meta. The fact that build is so much preponderant than the class itself, is making this game boring and not custom to the player, wich means you are often forced to not use the build you would like to use, cuz meta build is doing the job much better and more efficiently.

In fact there are so many possible options in this game with traits and skills, unfortunately 99% of them are garbage. No matter what is your skill, if you running build that doesnt perform well you will lose!

So i say: Build >class>team>skill.

NeXeD.3042:

Dude I’m being pretty clear here and you just keep coming back with stuff like please elaborate, I’m lazy man like really lazy. But in my opinion blaming problems on things out of your control is a cop out. I’m really not sure how hard that is to comprehend.

You control yourself so that should be the biggest factor for you, blaming others for losses is a total b move.

Unless of course you can assure me with 100% certainty that you played perfectly no mistakes and perfect rotations then by all means blame everyone else. Then again I’ve seen great players make mistakes

I feel that it is a whole different discussion who to blame on a loss. In my opinion it is not that “my team was weaker than the enemy” but rather “we as a team were weaker than the enemy”. So no point in blaming it all on team mates or on yourself if they or you didn’t make some huge mistakes.

PvP is a team effort, it is not about blaming the team if you say that your team has more importance than your personal skill. Of course you can’t expect the team to do everything and carry you to victory, but you can neither say that you matter more than the 4 others. Of course skill matters and you should do your best and get better but in a team game it is the collective skill of the team that matters.

But I think your point in all of this is that some ppl say that skill doesn’t matter and it is all matchmaking rng and blame all on that.

NeXeD.3042:

Dude I’m being pretty clear here and you just keep coming back with stuff like please elaborate, I’m lazy man like really lazy. But in my opinion blaming problems on things out of your control is a cop out. I’m really not sure how hard that is to comprehend.

You control yourself so that should be the biggest factor for you, blaming others for losses is a total b move.

Unless of course you can assure me with 100% certainty that you played perfectly no mistakes and perfect rotations then by all means blame everyone else. Then again I’ve seen great players make mistakes

The opinion and attitude you show here explains a lot of the societal problems needlessly persisting in the western world. I’ll be as nice as possible and say you aren’t making any sense here is my problem.

These 9 other players also ALL have control over the outcome in this game. The same control and will you enjoy. It is not complaining to say they hold more power over the outcome than you do even if you are the best player on the field by far. It is a FACT. Even is majesty Lord Helseth will be unhappy if others purposely throw the match because even he can’t shoulder the weight of going against all alone,

Are you the kind of person that would tell someone that has been kitten d by 9 others that they hold the biggest responsibility in what happened? I mean, since blaming the 9 others would be a rather b move? If not then why would you have a problem about the outcome of a game not being mostly decided by you alone be a problem? It’s a TEAM game. In a team game the individual is second to the team.

This belief that you are alone to control your life is cute but plain false. We live in a world of interactions. Of course you hold power over your life and have to do all in your power to be happy and are responsible for what you have power over but you are not alone to hold power. And there are a lot of times when you are not the one holding the biggest chunk of power. Saying that is not complaining. It is a fact. Just do the best you can with what you have and shoulder the responsibility that are rightfully yours.

I’d rather beleive my actions matter than just be like welp nothing I can do about it. Total cop out.

Stop comparing: Player A – good at combat/bad at rotations against Player B – bad at combat/good at rotations and start looking at meta levels of play where everyone is good at combat and everyone well understands proper rotations. When viewed this way, what would decide the match outcome between Team A: Warrior, Warrior, DH, Thief, Mesmer vs. Team B: Rev, Rev, Tempest, Reaper, Scrapper? You’ve got that right! It would be the difference between which builds/team comps we know are strong and which ones we know are underpowered and have no team chemistry on point.

Right now I see a lot of ignorant argument in this thread pretty much saying: “The good player will beat the bad player out of sheer weight in skill level” and this kind of attitude couldn’t be further from the objective of balancing the game. By taking this kind of stance in the forums, you defend the idea that imbalance is ok with you.

Remember that a player who is good enough to beat every class counter build he comes against in a match, shouldn’t be being matched against such players of a lesser skill level to begin with and that there are indeed heavy reasons why money tournament players run certain builds and do not run others.

In the end game, when every player has learned proper rotations and every player is good at combat, you will notice in GW2 that certain classes/builds are currently far more dominant than others.

Currently the priorities for winning matches in this current meta, look like this:

• #1 – Team Comp & Build Structure
• #2 – Communication & Proper Rotations
• #3 – Combat Skill Level

Before the 6/23/2015 condi path and HoT release, it would have been listd as this:

• #1 – Communication & Proper Rotations
• #2 – Combat Skill Level
• #3 – Team Comp & Build Structure

NeXeD.3042:

I’d rather beleive my actions matter than just be like welp nothing I can do about it. Total cop out.

This is a sad straw man. Whoever said your actions didn’t matter? Nobody here or in any threads that I know said or imply anything close to it.

Your actions ALWAYS matter and you can ALWAYS do your best to influence the outcome. But the point remain that you do not decide the outcome of a team game alone. You contribute to something that is greater than just you.

I’m shocked at the intense level of individuality I see in some ppl despite being myself an individualist and living in N-America since forever.

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

I’m shocked at the intense level of individuality I see in some ppl despite being myself an individualist and living in N-America since forever.

Indeed. “The Drunkard’s Walk” should be a compulsory read for everyone in school.

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

NeXeD.3042:

I’d rather beleive my actions matter than just be like welp nothing I can do about it. Total cop out.

This is a sad straw man. Whoever said your actions didn’t matter? Nobody here or in any threads that I know said or imply anything close to it.

Your actions ALWAYS matter and you can ALWAYS do your best to influence the outcome. But the point remain that you do not decide the outcome of a team game alone. You contribute to something that is greater than just you.

I’m shocked at the intense level of individuality I see in some ppl despite being myself an individualist and living in N-America since forever.

straw man… how the hell am i making a straw man argument, i havent once said i dont believe builds or team comp matter… so you are putting those words in my mouth.

All i have said is that too many people are minimizing individual skill.

NeXeD.3042:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

NeXeD.3042:

I’d rather beleive my actions matter than just be like welp nothing I can do about it. Total cop out.

This is a sad straw man. Whoever said your actions didn’t matter? Nobody here or in any threads that I know said or imply anything close to it.

Your actions ALWAYS matter and you can ALWAYS do your best to influence the outcome. But the point remain that you do not decide the outcome of a team game alone. You contribute to something that is greater than just you.

I’m shocked at the intense level of individuality I see in some ppl despite being myself an individualist and living in N-America since forever.

straw man… how the hell am i making a straw man argument, i havent once said i dont believe builds or team comp matter… so you are putting those words in my mouth.

All i have said is that too many people are minimizing individual skill.

You said “I’d rather beleive my actions matter than just be like welp nothing I can do about it”. This implies that people who argue against your pov have entertain the idea nothing can be done. Which is false.

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

NeXeD.3042:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

NeXeD.3042:

I’d rather beleive my actions matter than just be like welp nothing I can do about it. Total cop out.

This is a sad straw man. Whoever said your actions didn’t matter? Nobody here or in any threads that I know said or imply anything close to it.

Your actions ALWAYS matter and you can ALWAYS do your best to influence the outcome. But the point remain that you do not decide the outcome of a team game alone. You contribute to something that is greater than just you.

I’m shocked at the intense level of individuality I see in some ppl despite being myself an individualist and living in N-America since forever.

straw man… how the hell am i making a straw man argument, i havent once said i dont believe builds or team comp matter… so you are putting those words in my mouth.

All i have said is that too many people are minimizing individual skill.

You said “I’d rather beleive my actions matter than just be like welp nothing I can do about it”. This implies that people who argue against your pov have entertain the idea nothing can be done. Which is false.

Your taking things out of context and making assumptions nice.