Team Comps MATTER - PVP Needs Selection Phase
I think it wouldn’t really matter when everyone runs the same classes with the same builds anyways. At least there’s no 4 stacking now though!
too soon to tell which specs will be OP, and there are plenty of counter-picks to be had.
how am i supposed to counter chronos in this rock-paper-scissors balancing if there is no prof/spec selection phase? not having this feature is like saying team comp doesnt matter and builds dont matter, as the matchmaker is almost completely random.
#teamcompsmatter
would definitely be interesting to see this
there’s already a minute+ long phase where you can change your specs… what more do you want?
there’s already a minute+ long phase where you can change your specs… what more do you want?
because every prof cannot fulfill every role (roamer, bunker, +1’er, etc.), changing up the specs often isnt good enough. if intraprofessional balance was perfect, we wouldnt need a selection phase. but it’s not, and will never be.
secondly, 1 minute is not enough time to switch ammies, talents, sigils and weapons. but i guess build loadouts will make this easier.
right now if you log out to switch profs, it results in a loss. this is absolutely wrong and stupid. it should be encouraged.
i fully expect that when build loadouts go live that we should be allowed to switch profs as well, without penalty.
I personally would not allow class swaping after the map roll. You play the character you qued with.
I personally would not allow class swaping after the map roll. You play the character you qued with.
That’s a terrible idea.
there’s already 1 minute to change class, if anything this game needs build templates account wide.
norn warrior
It would be good, if we had a minimum of viable 4 builds per class. But we barely have 2, and only on some classes. And even considering different builds, the playstyle is roughly the same due to elite specs.
Elite specs killed the diversity in this game, no matter what you do it almost always feels the same. Launching only one per expansion is a mistake, they should have released another set with LS3 – especially since some classes were shoehorned into roles players didn’t want.
It would be good, if we had a minimum of viable 4 builds per class. But we barely have 2, and only on some classes. And even considering different builds, the playstyle is roughly the same due to elite specs.
Elite specs killed the diversity in this game, no matter what you do it almost always feels the same. Launching only one per expansion is a mistake, they should have released another set with LS3 – especially since some classes were shoehorned into roles players didn’t want.
100% agreed with this.
I personally would not allow class swaping after the map roll. You play the character you qued with.
That’s a terrible idea.
Why. I find it perfect.
What i would add here are build templates. As example i have two builds in a class i usualy play. They are quite diffrent in amulet, sigil, traits …. One klick in the preparation phase would be fine…
What the game really needs is some initial aproximation of roles for the matchmaking.
Amulets could be used for that. Something using paladins could be taken as a bruiser, while something with marauders is more likely to roam and +1.
In no way is it going to be perfect, but it should easily be a step forward from almost completely random compositions.
This game just doesn’t have a healthy meta game and it never has. A quick look at the pro teams shows you just how narrow the “meta” has become. There is one viable build on each profession and even then, there are professions that are just stronger.
No team tries to counter pick because you cant, the best builds in this game have almost no real weakness because they dont trade anything to have all of the defense, CC, dps, healing, etc.
Engineer is a great example of the terrible design decisions in this game for pvp. Hammer Scrapper (post nerf) has more damage, defense, healing and CC when compared to Rifle Scrapper AND Condi Engi. Why would you ever pick rifle or pistols when hammer exists?
How about the joke that are projectiles in this game? Some classes get ranged projectile-less attacks and yet they trade NOTHING for them. Projectiles dont get to deal more or have longer range, having a projectile is pure downside in GW2. I am sure people could think of other examples but this is just a quick taste of why GW2 pvp is fundamentally broken.
Spam boons, spam cc, spam condi, spam direct damage. Boons and Conditions went from tactical choices to side effects of your skills. ANet has done literally nothing to manage power creep over the life of this game and it shows in pvp.
I love GW2 and will continue to play it but it will forever remain extremely niche and honestly not very good as a competitive game.
Easier said than done.
Balance patches often radically change what role a profession will fit into. It used to be that Guardians were good for nothing but bunkering, which is pretty much opposite from their current state (well, assuming that guardians are still good for anything nowadays…sorry guys).
You’d either have to let people choose whatever they want and just trust that they’re making an intelligent choice on the role their build is actually good for.
On top of that, the number of people for each role isn’t set in stone for a decent comp. You can have two roamers and it’s a rev and a thief, you’ll probably be fine. However, if it’s two thieves, then it’s gg.
And it’s possible that a thief change next patch makes 2 thieves viable. Maybe thieves will get a decent brawler spec, so a D/P roamer and a S/D or Staff brawler is actually a good setup. Stranger things have happened.
And even if you get all that worked out, this function will probably do nothing but just cause confusion and raise the learning curve for new/low tier PvPers who aren’t affected much by team comp. Team comp only really matters when players perform to a builds potential and when there’s some semblance of understanding on rotations. Plus some builds are amazing at low level PvP, but are trash at higher tiers.
there’s already a minute+ long phase where you can change your specs… what more do you want?
because every prof cannot fulfill every role (roamer, bunker, +1’er, etc.), changing up the specs often isnt good enough. if intraprofessional balance was perfect, we wouldnt need a selection phase. but it’s not, and will never be.
secondly, 1 minute is not enough time to switch ammies, talents, sigils and weapons. but i guess build loadouts will make this easier.
right now if you log out to switch profs, it results in a loss. this is absolutely wrong and stupid. it should be encouraged.
i fully expect that when build loadouts go live that we should be allowed to switch profs as well, without penalty.
most classes only have 1 viable build, so switching classes will allow you to fulfill any/every role.
also yes you can switch class during this 1 min time, it takes ~30-40 seconds to switch to a different character and unless you take 2+ minutes there is no penalty
Easier said than done.
Balance patches often radically change what role a profession will fit into. It used to be that Guardians were good for nothing but bunkering, which is pretty much opposite from their current state (well, assuming that guardians are still good for anything nowadays…sorry guys).
I would be best if Guardians nowadays could either choose to go bunker or non-bunker builds. A selection phase as is discussed in this topic, is only relevant if you can make a decent estimate about the composition of the teams. Nowadays you know that a Guardian on any of the teams is playing offensive with traps (like… 90% of the times). If you do NOT know this, you can not really adapt pre-game. I think that would be good for the state of the game. This game just needs more build diversity in PvP.
I love GW2 and will continue to play it but it will forever remain extremely niche and honestly not very good as a competitive game.
yeah, it’s pvp hasnt got anywhere really. and i dont see that changing. but putting forward some suggestions in the hopes they might read cant hurt.
(edited by mistsim.2748)