Guild Wars 2

Well played #QQ

I know, Personal Story Completer should never show in PvE.. Like wtf, right?

man those rank 1 must have had fun lol

i slowly start to think system does it on purpose

when i am on winning streak, i start to get non stop such matches, where my team consists of obviously new pvpers vs rank 50-60s with amazing mix of non stop skyhammer and spirit watch

It’s not random. The higher ranks stack with each other on the team. That’s why I wait a minute or so to check out the ranks and then join. It’s not fun getting stomped if you’re on a team of new players but it’s also not that much fun to stomp on new inexperienced players, but at least I get more rank and glory for winning.

The option to choose sides needs to go. It won’t eliminate the problem but it will help a bit.

This was a Team Arena match, so they were placed with the two level ones by the matchmaking system. You can only choose your team in hotjoins (unless you form a roster before entering the team queue).

That’s what you get for having 3 necros in your team :p

So many people in this community bash newbies…

It absolutely surprises me when the community also complains about the PvP community also being dead.

Sarcasm aside, you do seriously get a better community and a better game when you accept people who are new and don’t act like they’re some nuisance that just gets in your way.

its really sad that you are still able to play tournaments at any rank.

really really sad

Justin ODell.9517:

jayvux.4128:

snip

This probably happened because you are very near the starting MMR. It happens, but we are working on improving things so it won’t happen nearly as often.

Dahkeus.8243:

So many people in this community bash newbies…

With good reason. They aren’t very good.

One of several reasons I’m glad we’re going to keep ranks. (Thanks, community!) Ranks should act as a decent proxy for game-knowledge, allowing us to place people better.

Newbies can learn with people that won’t dominate them, which is good because that isn’t very fun. Trolls, err… veterans won’t have to worry as much about picking up the slack. Win/Win.

Justin ODell.9517:

jayvux.4128:

snip

This probably happened because you are very near the starting MMR. It happens, but we are working on improving things so it won’t happen nearly as often.

Dahkeus.8243:

So many people in this community bash newbies…

With good reason. They aren’t very good.

One of several reasons I’m glad we’re going to keep ranks. (Thanks, community!) Ranks should act as a decent proxy for game-knowledge, allowing us to place people better.

Newbies can learn with people that won’t dominate them, which is good because that isn’t very fun. Trolls, err… veterans won’t have to worry as much about picking up the slack. Win/Win.

How do you explain that when it happens to ppl that play at top 1000?

Justin ODell.9517:

Cynz.9437:

How do you explain that when it happens to ppl that play at top 1000?

Not enough people in the queue at the same time around the same MMR. Also, the distance in MMR between #1 and 50% isn’t as wide as people tend to think.

That diminishes the mirroring of players skills on the leadboards. Why are those players at the top when the gap with those at the bottom is low? Lucky wins can get you higher place while unlucky loses can get you down?… Pointless to show and rank us with something that is not properly stating who is this player and how skillfully he’s playing along the match…

Population is low you know.

Justin ODell.9517:

Powerr’s filter range is 1800 +/- 30 * 2 or 1740 – 1860.
Flux’s filter range is 1500 +/- 200 * 2 or 1100 – 1900.

Even though Powerr’s rating is significantly higher than Flux’s, since Flux has a large deviation, they could still end up being matched together.

That is bad.
That is VERY bad.

When matchmaking knows it has less reliable info on a guy it should NEVER, like core rule of any kittening MMR system, use that lack of information to assume that the guy is a capable player…

You always base matchmaking around the lowest possible number in the filter range.
1800+-40 is 1760.
1500 +- 200 is 1300.

Otherwise what you are saying is that your system gives brand spanking new players high priority for matches with experienced players…

higher deviation players get higher priority in higher MMR queues
higher deviation players are newer/less-reliable team-mates
higher MMR queues are the highest skilled matches

What.
The.
kitten.

If that is right, your system is doing far more harm than good.
I’ve seen games do matchmaking better based off of raw ranks, and ranks alone and coding that doesn’t involves months and months of work and tweaking.

Justin ODell.9517:

Cynz.9437:

How do you explain that when it happens to ppl that play at top 1000?

Not enough people in the queue at the same time around the same MMR. Also, the distance in MMR between #1 and 50% isn’t as wide as people tend to think.

i do not believe it

how come rank 300 gets paired with player that just started to pvp, at prime time too

Cynz.9437:

how come rank 300 gets paired with player that just started to pvp, at prime time too

Top 300? I was in a game a few days ago where i had a rank 2 staff ele on my team. On the opposing team was “bombing technology” who was top 4 at that time.

Justin ODell.9517:

Jinx.7258:

That diminishes the mirroring of players skills on the leadboards. Why are those players at the top when the gap with those at the bottom is low? Lucky wins can get you higher place while unlucky loses can get you down?… Pointless to show and rank us with something that is not properly stating who is this player and how skillfully he’s playing along the match…

What I meant to say is that the gap between #1 and 50% isn’t as wide when you also consider their deviations.

Take this example:
Powerr has a rating of 1800, and a deviation of 30.
Flux has a rating of 1500, and a deviation of 200.

Powerr’s filter range is 1800 +/- 30 * 2 or 1740 – 1860.
Flux’s filter range is 1500 +/- 200 * 2 or 1100 – 1900.

Even though Powerr’s rating is significantly higher than Flux’s, since Flux has a large deviation, they could still end up being matched together.

To put this another way; Powerr’s MMR is stable enough to say he is a skilled player, but we don’t enough about Flux as a player. So even though the matchmaker would try to find a better fit for Powerr, he might still get stuck with a Flux every now and then.

Hm that makes it crystal clear for me then. Thx.

those 2 Level 1’s were better than that r35, they are pros shhhh

Justin ODell.9517:

garethh.3518:

When matchmaking knows it has less reliable info on a guy it should NEVER, like core rule of any kittening MMR system, use that lack of information to assume that the guy is a capable player…

We don’t assume they are a capable player by default, the filter range grows over time.

garethh.3518:

You always base matchmaking around the lowest possible number in the filter range.

You’re right, and we do do that. I left the detail out, as well as the way the range grows over time, because I felt it was irrelevant to the point I was trying to make.

Jinx.7258:

Hm that makes it crystal clear for me then. Thx.

I hope so, I wasn’t entirely sure what you meant.

Uhm, that seems backwards.

Assuming someone starts solidly in middle MMR and slowly expands to their real MMR creates a god awful ELO hell.
It also creates, yeah, what you mentioned, a small divide in the playerbase rankings so little (if any) information to divide newer from experienced players…

The other way around.. a higher standard deviation to begin with and a narrowing on the actual… well that doesn’t.
A new player would start with high deviation (say 500) and that middle of the line ranking (say a 1200) giving them an effective MMR of 700.
700 is low.
It is so low that that person will be stuck playing against other new players for a while.
Which is good… it gives a decent gauge of ‘experience’ and a larger scale to base matchmaking on. It’d seperate new players from people who are legitimately average… average = 1200 ranking, 100~ deviation so 1100 effective MMR, which is far, far higher that of brand spanking new players.

If that makes sense?

Sidenote

Something like that would also end up being something better to base rankings off of since it only allows players to get higher up on the leaderboard with lower deviation, so lower fluctuations in rank from win/loses (aka a MUCH more stable ranking system).

Anyways, that’s just idle chatter.
I doubt you guys have the resources to undertake it
I mean splitting rank between toons or adding in an un-ranked solo queue would have to come first, and it seems easier to code, yet doesn’t seem likely to happen within the year.

Justin ODell.9517:

One of several reasons I’m glad we’re going to keep ranks. (Thanks, community!) Ranks should act as a decent proxy for game-knowledge, allowing us to place people better.

Really? What about the players who gained rank by skyhammer farming?

It is really hard to believe this game has any sort of matchmaking. We, most players below rank 1000, were being pitted against the top 20~10 players in the leader board repeatedly. We are talking about Caed team here.

And we weren’t playing during dead time. So what’s really the issue? Is the game mode really lacking players to be paired with or is the system broken? Because we were literally being farmed by the toppest players and it completely turned me off from tpvp.

Aza.2105:

Justin ODell.9517:

One of several reasons I’m glad we’re going to keep ranks. (Thanks, community!) Ranks should act as a decent proxy for game-knowledge, allowing us to place people better.

Really? What about the players who gained rank by skyhammer farming?

Yea, don’t include rank as part of the calculation as its a bad metric of the many hotjoin heros. Better numbers to be used like games played in team arena etc.

Justin ODell.9517:

Cynz.9437:

How do you explain that when it happens to ppl that play at top 1000?

Not enough people in the queue at the same time around the same MMR. Also, the distance in MMR between #1 and 50% isn’t as wide as people tend to think.

I think this is main problem with current matchmaking. Best players should have much higher rating than new players. Just like it is in chess.

What is more queue time should be longer so there is time to take better players than rank 1.

I hope those changes are made before proper ladder is implemented.

Nebilim.5127:

It is really hard to believe this game has any sort of matchmaking. We, most players below rank 1000, were being pitted against the top 20~10 players in the leader board repeatedly. We are talking about Caed team here.

And we weren’t playing during dead time. So what’s really the issue? Is the game mode really lacking players to be paired with or is the system broken? Because we were literally being farmed by the toppest players and it completely turned me off from tpvp.

I’m looking at your screenies and words kind of escape me right now. Especially the two bottom ones are soul-crushingly brutal. I know the matchmaking algorithm ignores e-fame, but kitten . I thought roster shuffling would eliminate such titanic team stacking, but I guess I was wrong.

If it’s any consolation, soloQ rosters seem pretty random over on EU as well. I get the occasional close match now and again, but most of the time one of the teams is blessed with at least one colossal noob, resulting in a comfortable victory for the other team. The best thing I can advise is to accept that you are but one player out of ten in a match, and even if you play with the wrath of an elder god you can’t carry consistently. It’s exceedingly frustrating to know that you’ve played really well and still lose, either due to the flat-out superiority of the opposing team or the utter incompetence of your own teammates. No one can carry four people consistently, it can’t be done in a team domination game with three nodes.

Nebilim.5127:

It is really hard to believe this game has any sort of matchmaking. We, most players below rank 1000, were being pitted against the top 20~10 players in the leader board repeatedly. We are talking about Caed team here.

And we weren’t playing during dead time. So what’s really the issue? Is the game mode really lacking players to be paired with or is the system broken? Because we were literally being farmed by the toppest players and it completely turned me off from tpvp.

I’m on top 2 screenies there in a match against you. Those matches happened very long time ago, and it was only couple games, and it definitely wasn’t during prime time. Matchmaking sucks but those isolated cases don’t prove it though. Anyway, once they add proper leagues and seasons and whatnot it will be way better since more people will play.

Yeah.. I don’t get it either. Why make Necro so facesmashingly easy to play and brokenly strong, that everyone and their cat can be successful with them.

KrisHQ.4719:

Yeah.. I don’t get it either. Why make Necro so facesmashingly easy to play and brokenly strong, that everyone and their cat can be successful with them.

Hey, my cat has been practicing for over a year, don’t blame him because you play zerker.

This is my Solo Queue Adventures plus a few Team Queue, It got mixed up but 90% of the match here is Solo Queue.
Some are 4v5 but most are 5v5 I just couldn’t cap screen before they leave.

To be honest, most of these games aren’t even fun, It was decided in first 2min of the game, the rest is just a storm.

On these screenshot I got from lv36 to lv48 now.
And my rank was top 500 to 164 right now.
I have my ups and downs but its stays around 100-200 for a while now.

To be completely honest, This matchmaking is like a lucky draw, which team gets more newbie = lose. You want proof? Look at the picture yourself.

Solo-q losing strakes has become so painful experience that I can’t take it anymore. I prefer hotjoins 8v8 because with some effort you easily find lots of very close matches 500-480 or so. Match doesn’t make much sense but at least it is not plain slaughter.

I would prefer even up to 30 mins queue for single match if that would significantly improve match making.

Justin ODell.9517:

Dahkeus.8243:

So many people in this community bash newbies…

With good reason. They aren’t very good.

One of several reasons I’m glad we’re going to keep ranks. (Thanks, community!) Ranks should act as a decent proxy for game-knowledge, allowing us to place people better.

Newbies can learn with people that won’t dominate them, which is good because that isn’t very fun. Trolls, err… veterans won’t have to worry as much about picking up the slack. Win/Win.

1. That’s a terrible attitude: newbies are never going to get good if they keep getting screamed at and abused by their more experienced teammates just for being new – they’ll just quit.

2. When they get thrown into matches with r50s who instagib them before they even realise they were in a fight they’ll, again, just quit.

3. I’m glad you’re tweaking matchmaking – although any system that ranks complete newbies at tthe 50% mark and lets them work their way up should probably be thrown out and replaced by somehting completely new rather than tweaked imho.

4. If you recognise that a player’s rank can be a more accurate indicator of their raw experience (not necessarilly skill, but experience, which also counts for somethign), then why not restrict people under rank X to hotjoins only? This would be the simplest way to stop this kind of thing from happening COMPLETELY! It wouldn’t require you to tweak the complex maths of a broken system, it would let newbies LEARN THE GAME in a friendlier environment, and it would reduce frustration for high-ranked players who just made the mistake of joining a tournament at a time when nobody else around the same MMR was online. (Which, frankly, is MOST OF THE TIME right now since pvp population has collapsed lately, and matchmaking snafus like this one are part of the reason why!)

If it were up to me I’d make it 1-19 hotjoin only, 20 unlocks solo arenas, 25 unlocks team arenas.

Newbie should be ranked at the 5% mark, not 50% mark. If they are exceptionally good, it takes them 10 more matches to get to top 1000. If they are not good, they won’t be abused by the veterans. It’s a fair tradeoff, so why not just do it?

Zietlogik.6208:

those 2 Level 1’s were better than that r35, they are pros shhhh

I’m glad someone pointed this out before I read to the end of the thread!

Vieteriukko.6075:

I would prefer even up to 30 mins queue for single match if that would significantly improve match making.

No one is gonna queue for 30 mins, have a ~10-min game and potentially result in 175 rank points…

Justin ODell.9517:

jayvux.4128:

snip

This probably happened because you are very near the starting MMR. It happens, but we are working on improving things so it won’t happen nearly as often.

Dahkeus.8243:

So many people in this community bash newbies…

With good reason. They aren’t very good.

One of several reasons I’m glad we’re going to keep ranks. (Thanks, community!) Ranks should act as a decent proxy for game-knowledge, allowing us to place people better.

Newbies can learn with people that won’t dominate them, which is good because that isn’t very fun. Trolls, err… veterans won’t have to worry as much about picking up the slack. Win/Win.

After reading this, I have come to the conclusion…
#JustinODellCommunityRelations2014
Its about time you drew the short straw. Can’t stay lucky forever.

Justin ODell.9517:

jayvux.4128:

snip

This probably happened because you are very near the starting MMR. It happens, but we are working on improving things so it won’t happen nearly as often.

Dahkeus.8243:

So many people in this community bash newbies…

With good reason. They aren’t very good.

One of several reasons I’m glad we’re going to keep ranks. (Thanks, community!) Ranks should act as a decent proxy for game-knowledge, allowing us to place people better.

Newbies can learn with people that won’t dominate them, which is good because that isn’t very fun. Trolls, err… veterans won’t have to worry as much about picking up the slack. Win/Win.

It is unfortunately the opposite because hotjoin teaches you rather bad decision making compared to turney play while it rewarded more ranks in the past and you refuse to retrospectively reward turney players to keep up this discrepancy.

This is why people say you do a bad job.

Justin ODell.9517:

Jinx.7258:

That diminishes the mirroring of players skills on the leadboards. Why are those players at the top when the gap with those at the bottom is low? Lucky wins can get you higher place while unlucky loses can get you down?… Pointless to show and rank us with something that is not properly stating who is this player and how skillfully he’s playing along the match…

What I meant to say is that the gap between #1 and 50% isn’t as wide when you also consider their deviations.

Take this example:
Powerr has a rating of 1800, and a deviation of 30.
Flux has a rating of 1500, and a deviation of 200.

Powerr’s filter range is 1800 +/- 30 * 2 or 1740 – 1860.
Flux’s filter range is 1500 +/- 200 * 2 or 1100 – 1900.

Even though Powerr’s rating is significantly higher than Flux’s, since Flux has a large deviation, they could still end up being matched together.

To put this another way; Powerr’s MMR is stable enough to say he is a skilled player, but we don’t enough about Flux as a player. So even though the matchmaker would try to find a better fit for Powerr, he might still get stuck with a Flux every now and then.

It’s fine if a couple of bad players get into a high ranked match (Kind of), but once they are in, there has to be a system to make fair teams with those 10 players. The first picture has two rank 1s on the same team. Even if the actual skill level of those players was higher than the rank 34, it doesn’t matter. The perception is that the match making is broken. It needs to order the ranks from lowest to highest and deal one to each team repeatedly. It creates a perception that this is a much fairer match and when/if they lose, it’s more accepted that it was their inability to carry their bad players, rather than an inability to get lucky with the Match Making System.

ncsoft killa questo sh*tstorm pls, and open lineage3

1: Third Tourney mode, rank 1 – 19 ONLY! (No leaderboard assosiated)

2: Proper ELO rating system and leaderboard…whatever you have working now…ain’t working.

3: TAKE BLOODY SKYHAMMER OFF THE KITTEN ROTATION! (Also spirit watch)

Edit: Also include matchmaking to pick only 1 of each class for more varied combat..

A requirement of Rank 10 to join Team Arena/Solo Arena would have sufficed.

If the developers think they should add unlockables to “prevent newbies from being overwhelmed”, this should just go along cos I honestly think competitive play overwhelms new players way more than just a few sigils/runes

You should make it so that all 10 players MUST be connected and ready before a match is started and the dishonourable should be more severe. There are TOO MANY players who think its OK to log out or just afk in the middle of a match