Guild Wars 2

Wait for it… wait for it…. Nerf….

AR nerfed woot.

We love you grouch.

JinDaVikk.7291:

Wait for it… wait for it…. Nerf….

AR nerfed woot.

We love you grouch.

What did they say exactly? The streaming speeds were horrible and I couldn’t watch most of it.

Doesn’t Youtube offer streaming options as well? I can barely view anything on Twitch.

bhagwad.4281:

JinDaVikk.7291:

Wait for it… wait for it…. Nerf….

AR nerfed woot.

We love you grouch.

What did they say exactly? The streaming speeds were horrible and I couldn’t watch most of it.

Doesn’t Youtube offer streaming options as well? I can barely view anything on Twitch.

Automated Response will now give a 50% reduction in condi duration when HP is below 33% instead of the 100% reduction under 25% hp.

Also, try using a different browser.

I had tears in my eyes; they are finally doing it. After all the crying and complaining we are moving in the right direction.

Dahkeus.8243:

Automated Response will now give a 50% reduction in condi duration when HP is below 33% instead of the 100% reduction under 25% hp.

Also, try using a different browser.

Well that’s not too bad and reasonable.

I however can’t wait to see, how those who insist de-cap’s OPness is from AR, will react after they realized the reason they couldn’t beat de-cap was not because of AR, but because of their own incompetence in learning how to deal with it

At least now people will get to find out that the main problem with decap is NOT AR. All this does is help make condi spam more viable.

Prediction: Decap engi will still be incredibly strong.

It isn’t how I would of liked the trait to go. I would of liked active removal but this should stop the (not remove) the hard counter. Now nerco/engi shouldnt have an issue killing them. Namely it will still be a decap.

Now at below 6k hp with melandru (assuming no changes to the rune set) will be 75 condi reduction. 8 second bleeds will become 2. 4 second burns become 1.

Now they can be killed 1v1.

Once again ty grouch we all appreciate it.

style.6173:

At least now people will get to find out that the main problem with decap is NOT AR. All this does is help make condi spam more viable.

Prediction: Decap engi will still be incredibly strong.

I agree with the prediction. I think this will give certain builds a better chance at eventually killing off a decap engi, but decap engis should still be able to give their team a big advantage since they still have so many knockbacks with no tells/cast times.

However, I think one of the best ways to balance decap engis, at least for solo Q is to take Skyham out of the rotation.

Well.. good or bad. Doesn’t matter.

They, for the first time (ever?), listened and responded QUICKLY through actions (not words).

Blizt.3086:

Well that’s not too bad and reasonable.

I however can’t wait to see, how those who insist de-cap’s OPness is from AR, will react after they realized the reason they couldn’t beat de-cap was not because of AR, but because of their own incompetence in learning how to deal with it

A good decap engie is literally impossible to kill 1v1. If you die 1v1 as decap pre patch you made some awfull mistakes. I could keep up vs multiple top 30/tournament level players at the same time. And i played like 10 games of decap in total so its not like im super experienced on it.

Are you telling me that you could do better than those guys?

Everyone at the top of the ladder knows decap is over the top in its current state. The fact that less US players cheese to the top leads to less complaints and less of an issue. In EU where the ladder is a bit more active/competetive people tend to play to win…thats means a constant stream of decap engies pretty much every single game.

Locuz.2651:

A good decap engie is literally impossible to kill 1v1. If you die 1v1 as decap pre patch you made some awfull mistakes. I could keep up vs multiple top 30/tournament level players at the same time. And i played like 10 games of decap in total so its not like im super experienced on it.

Are you telling me that you could do better than those guys?

Your first sentence is already wrong. If the de-cap have AR (pre-patch) and you’re running a full condition build, then yes, there’s no way or near impossible to kill de-cap 1v1.

But if you try something like a D/P Thief or damage sword Guardian, who both have a numbers of blind, teleport, and burst damage, in 1v1 the de-cap can be in a very uneasy spot where his CC will often miss due to blind, if the CC did hit it will become without meaning when Thief/Guardian just teleport back, and AR definitely can’t save you from high damage burst.

There are also burst Warrior who have good access of Stability, and Mesmer who can both kite and deal constant damage to you with phantasm or shutter illusion on a spot away from point.

People often complain because the builds they’re currently using can’t beat something, and rarely to really try finding the solution of it.

If multiple people go up against 1 de-cap and can’t take it down, there could be several reasons:
1) They’re all running full condition builds, which is just stupid in setup.
2) They don’t understand how to deal with a de-cap well enough yet.

Locuz.2651:

Everyone at the top of the ladder knows decap is over the top in its current state. The fact that less US players cheese to the top leads to less complaints and less of an issue. In EU where the ladder is a bit more active/competetive people tend to play to win…thats means a constant stream of decap engies pretty much every single game.

REAL people at the top of the ladder would know how to deal with de-cap properly, either by skill or overall tactic.

It’s a step in the right direction, 100% immunity was too much.

And what are they giving engineers to compensate, given their near total lack of ability to deal with conditions OTHER than AR?

Let me guess.. nothing.

I mostly play engi in AR.. not one designed for decap. I use AR to stay alive against condition-heavy classes. Maybe I should just start playing decap now?

Qaelyn.7612:

And what are they giving engineers to compensate, given their near total lack of ability to deal with conditions OTHER than AR?

Let me guess.. nothing.

I mostly play engi in AR.. not one designed for decap. I use AR to stay alive against condition-heavy classes. Maybe I should just start playing decap now?

or maybe you should actually get better, because every good engineer i know do not use AR, and think AR are pure BS.

Blizt.3086:

Locuz.2651:

A good decap engie is literally impossible to kill 1v1. If you die 1v1 as decap pre patch you made some awfull mistakes. I could keep up vs multiple top 30/tournament level players at the same time. And i played like 10 games of decap in total so its not like im super experienced on it.

Are you telling me that you could do better than those guys?

Your first sentence is already wrong. If the de-cap have AR (pre-patch) and you’re running a full condition build, then yes, there’s no way or near impossible to kill de-cap 1v1.

But if you try something like a S/P Thief or damage sword Guardian, who both have a numbers of blind, teleport, and burst damage, in 1v1 the de-cap can be in a very uneasy spot where his CC will often miss due to blind, if the CC did hit it will become without meaning when Thief/Guardian just teleport back, and AR definitely can’t save you from high damage burst.

There are also burst Warrior who have good access of Stability, and Mesmer who can both kite and deal constant damage to you with phantasm or shutter illusion on a spot away from point.

People often complain because the builds they’re currently using can’t beat something, and rarely to really try finding the solution of it.

If multiple people go up against 1 de-cap and can’t take it down, there could be several reasons:
1) They’re all running full condition builds, which is just stupid in setup.
2) They don’t understand how to deal with a de-cap well enough yet.

Locuz.2651:

Everyone at the top of the ladder knows decap is over the top in its current state. The fact that less US players cheese to the top leads to less complaints and less of an issue. In EU where the ladder is a bit more active/competetive people tend to play to win…thats means a constant stream of decap engies pretty much every single game.

REAL people at the top of the ladder would know how to deal with de-cap properly, either by skill or overall tactic.

The only counter to decap is D/P thief.

S/P thief can’t kill him due to protection injection. DPS guard will get the point fully capped by the decapper.

The only way to avoid decap is to leave him alone and have the thief to rotate everytime.

What are you even talkin about ?

Simon.3794:

or maybe you should actually get better, because every good engineer i know do not use AR, and think AR are pure BS.

Thank you for your insulting and useless reply.

Engineers have very few tools against conditions, which are spammed everywhere in PvP. AR should not be nerfed without compensating improvements in condition removal.

ETA: If this change is game-wide (not just PvP) it will be even worse in WvW.

Mrbig.8019:

The only counter to decap is D/P thief.

S/P thief can’t kill him due to protection injection. DPS guard will get the point fully capped by the decapper.

The only way to avoid decap is to leave him alone and have the thief to rotate everytime.

What are you even talkin about ?

My mistake, made a typo with S/P and D/P there.

But about DPS Guardian part it is definitely true, I have used that to kill de-cap quickly myself. Obviously you lack any CC to push him out of the point, but you can get him fast with those spike damage, blind, and block. (I was using sword/focus)

Mrbig.8019:

Blizt.3086:

Locuz.2651:

A good decap engie is literally impossible to kill 1v1. If you die 1v1 as decap pre patch you made some awfull mistakes. I could keep up vs multiple top 30/tournament level players at the same time. And i played like 10 games of decap in total so its not like im super experienced on it.

Are you telling me that you could do better than those guys?

Your first sentence is already wrong. If the de-cap have AR (pre-patch) and you’re running a full condition build, then yes, there’s no way or near impossible to kill de-cap 1v1.

But if you try something like a S/P Thief or damage sword Guardian, who both have a numbers of blind, teleport, and burst damage, in 1v1 the de-cap can be in a very uneasy spot where his CC will often miss due to blind, if the CC did hit it will become without meaning when Thief/Guardian just teleport back, and AR definitely can’t save you from high damage burst.

There are also burst Warrior who have good access of Stability, and Mesmer who can both kite and deal constant damage to you with phantasm or shutter illusion on a spot away from point.

People often complain because the builds they’re currently using can’t beat something, and rarely to really try finding the solution of it.

If multiple people go up against 1 de-cap and can’t take it down, there could be several reasons:
1) They’re all running full condition builds, which is just stupid in setup.
2) They don’t understand how to deal with a de-cap well enough yet.

Locuz.2651:

Everyone at the top of the ladder knows decap is over the top in its current state. The fact that less US players cheese to the top leads to less complaints and less of an issue. In EU where the ladder is a bit more active/competetive people tend to play to win…thats means a constant stream of decap engies pretty much every single game.

REAL people at the top of the ladder would know how to deal with de-cap properly, either by skill or overall tactic.

The only counter to decap is D/P thief.

S/P thief can’t kill him due to protection injection. DPS guard will get the point fully capped by the decapper.

The only way to avoid decap is to leave him alone and have the thief to rotate everytime.

What are you even talkin about ?

What? No. A D/P makes me lol when they try to kill my decap. There are only three specs that worry me.

1. A GC ele (that burst)
2. Stability focused hambow
3. Necro condi spam

Keep in mind these are just general rules. A good player in other specs can be a threat.

I’d like to point out that the feature patch offers other ways to run an effective decap engineer, won’t be able to tell until the patch hits but I think I can see a rather viable alternative to make it work, nother that want decap to continue but some ones bound to find a way to make it work still

now fix diamond skin and berserker stance plz. today i queued up against a decap engi, 2 necros, hambow, and diamond skin ele. i play condi engi. it was the most annoying game ever.

But won’t engi bring that down to a 75% reduction with melandru runes?

I suppose the new burn duration ammy will compensate a lot for this at least…

Yay so condi builds get more of a free reign… that’s just what we need. I’m glad something is being done and it breaks the whole rock paper scissors thing… but this feels like it’ll be counter productive unless condi spam is toned down more.

That’s good news!

Thank god for this news. I might try hard in solo Q again now. And seen as 99% of us are unable/unwilling to play on a fixed schedule as required for playing in a “team” then this should be the best change possible for the game. As we can now have some fun competition in solo q to try and prove ourselves. Hurray.

Edit: Although they better not buff meladru runes beyond -25% condi duration or what was the point

#WellDoneKarl

Also love the contrast in how engineers and warriors are nerfed.

Warriors: “We must be very careful! Make only small tweaks, very slowly! We don’t want to risk them becoming underpowered (even though they’re by far the most broken, OP, overplayed class)”

Engineers: WHAM

Qaelyn.7612:

Also love the contrast in how engineers and warriors are nerfed.

Warriors: “We must be very careful! Make only small tweaks, very slowly! We don’t want to risk them becoming underpowered (even though they’re by far the most broken, OP, overplayed class)”

Engineers: WHAM

It is actually probably not a nerf to engineers in solo q at least. It is a nerf to decap engi only. This change actually makes hgh/condi engi better. I can’t imagine how frustrating it must be to solo q on a condi engi buld vs decap engis.

Think big picture.

Qaelyn.7612:

Also love the contrast in how engineers and warriors are nerfed.

Warriors: “We must be very careful! Make only small tweaks, very slowly! We don’t want to risk them becoming underpowered (even though they’re by far the most broken, OP, overplayed class)”

Engineers: WHAM

Wut?
They literally destroyed hammer and longbow in two patches and you say that engineers are the ones getting the bad news?

Daishi.6027:

Yay so condi builds get more of a free reign… that’s just what we need. I’m glad something is being done and it breaks the whole rock paper scissors thing… but this feels like it’ll be counter productive unless condi spam is toned down more.

Cleansing Water is going to have the ICD removed. I can’t recall any condi build in meta back when it had no ICD.

So Elementalists back into metagame and indirect nerf to condi classes. Two birds killed with one stone.

Grouch needs a super hero cape when he does the ready-up’s now. This is what I did when I heard this news.

Yeah, just cater to the whiners and do nothing to fix the issues. Another trait that got kitrefinemented to oblivion, congrats.
Could have changed it and still retained some usefulness, but no, just nerf it to the ground. At less than 33% hp those conditions will kill you anyway, it doesn’t matter if they’ve been reduced, as long as they’re there.
Engineers already have no passive removals (Transmute is so bad after the nerf that i can’t even consider it). And they must already share their slots with weapons due to idiotical design decisions (sure, let’s put just a weapon slot because they may optionally have other underpar weapons by spending utilities). Now the only way to stay alive will be to have a kit (can’t do much with the main weapon, since its dps is nerfed by design due to the optional kits), elixir C and a stun breaker/elixir gun. No condition removals means death, no stun breaker means death as well.
That’s all the diversity you can get now.

Lordrosicky.5813:

Think big picture.

I am .. I’m thinking about just how much faster now I will die in WvW due to a lack of condition cleansing abilities, because of an overly-broad change that is intended to nerf one gimmicky build and instead makes life more difficult for all engineers, everywhere.

That’s the big picture — 0.1% of the GW2 playerbase whines about one specific build used in PvP, and all engineers are left even more weak in an area where they were already terrible. With, it would seem, no new condition cleanse abilities added to compensate.

Qaelyn.7612:

Lordrosicky.5813:

Think big picture.

I am .. I’m thinking about just how much faster now I will die in WvW due to a lack of condition cleansing abilities, because of an overly-broad change that is intended to nerf one gimmicky build and instead makes life more difficult for all engineers, everywhere.

That’s the big picture — 0.1% of the GW2 playerbase whines about one specific build used in PvP, and all engineers are left even more weak in an area where they were already terrible. With, it would seem, no new condition cleanse abilities added to compensate.

i cant remember the last time i seen an engineer using AR in wvw

I use it in WvW.

And I use it in PvP. Not in a decap build, but simply as a way of staying alive a bit longer given all the condition-heavy builds out there.

If a decap build is the problem they should deal with the decap abilities, of which AR is not one. And if something is a problem specific to PvP IT SHOULD BE CHANGED ONLY FOR PVP.

Qaelyn.7612:

I am .. I’m thinking about just how much faster now I will die in WvW due to a lack of condition cleansing abilities, because of an overly-broad change that is intended to nerf one gimmicky build and instead makes life more difficult for all engineers, everywhere.

That’s the big picture — 0.1% of the GW2 playerbase whines about one specific build used in PvP, and all engineers are left even more weak in an area where they were already terrible. With, it would seem, no new condition cleanse abilities added to compensate.

Perhaps engineers are now forced to pick some active condition cleansing like Cleansing Formula, light fields or Elixir C added to AR just like any other profession do instead of just picking a trait and completely forget about conditions.

How bad is that? I think I’m going to cry.

sorrow.2364:

Perhaps engineers are now forced to pick some active condition cleansing like Cleansing Formula, light fields or Elixir C added to AR just like any other profession do instead of just picking a trait and completely forget about conditions.

How bad is that? I think I’m going to cry.

Except those other professions aren’t being shoehorned into sharing their utilities slots with their weapons due to stupid design decisions, making their selection extremely strict, and thus their diversity. Apart from the awful passive removals, unlike other classes.

Want the engineers to be like the other professions? Fine. Give us the second weapon slot. Stop nerfing weapons basing their balance upon traited versions. Don’t nerf the main weapons because we may use kits.

Blizt.3086:

My mistake, made a typo with S/P and D/P there.

But about DPS Guardian part it is definitely true, I have used that to kill de-cap quickly myself. Obviously you lack any CC to push him out of the point, but you can get him fast with those spike damage, blind, and block. (I was using sword/focus)

Difference is that your example is random….like some random guardian wins vs random low percentage decap engie. While i can name names of top players who struggled or had to send two people to kill me.

And its not even about me being super good as decap engie (im not). Its about decap broken as … and everyone with some exp in this game (who isnt superbiased due to playing decap as main) and more than two braincells knows that it is.

If the engie keeps the point nuded for 30 secs and forces two ppl to come and focus him down, he wins the eficiency war allready. Its not about “well eventually i will kill him”. You have to kill him fast or he wins.

HA HA HA HA HA

HA

The more I read these topics the more I miss the GW1 skill system which had separate skills for PvP and PvE.

But in all honesty I approve the change. Its ridiculous how much engineers can be annoying and impossible to kill on Skyhammer, even with condi builds.

sorrow.2364:

Qaelyn.7612:

Also love the contrast in how engineers and warriors are nerfed.

Warriors: “We must be very careful! Make only small tweaks, very slowly! We don’t want to risk them becoming underpowered (even though they’re by far the most broken, OP, overplayed class)”

Engineers: WHAM

Wut?
They literally destroyed hammer and longbow in two patches and you say that engineers are the ones getting the bad news?

Daishi.6027:

Yay so condi builds get more of a free reign… that’s just what we need. I’m glad something is being done and it breaks the whole rock paper scissors thing… but this feels like it’ll be counter productive unless condi spam is toned down more.

Cleansing Water is going to have the ICD removed. I can’t recall any condi build in meta back when it had no ICD.

So Elementalists back into metagame and indirect nerf to condi classes. Two birds killed with one stone.

You know how to make a guy feel better <3

This is great news!

Grouch #1

Qaelyn.7612:

I use it in WvW.

And I use it in PvP. Not in a decap build, but simply as a way of staying alive a bit longer given all the condition-heavy builds out there.

If a decap build is the problem they should deal with the decap abilities, of which AR is not one. And if something is a problem specific to PvP IT SHOULD BE CHANGED ONLY FOR PVP.

Actually this is a good point. No one complains about engineers in WvW. It is really only a PvP thing.

It’s not a big nerf, but it will make me drop one of my turrets and bring Elixer C and drop AR for the new turret reflection trait, which will make me even more powerful now that enemies will be forced to melee my turrets to bring them down, and be again knocked off-point by APT. I’m not sure about traditional decap builds, but I was already working out dropping AR in favor of reflection bubbles everywhere.

I cant remember the last time I ran AR since there are so many other more interesting engy specs, but i can say for sure that this does very little to change decap specs. Itl give say, a full condi necro a better chance of actually finishing off the engy in a 1v1 (though probably not since necros are getting some nerfs) but by that point the engy will already have the point decapped and will just run away, heal, and come back to decap once again.

It does seem like a change in the right direction, a nerf to passive condi immunity + a nerf to dhumfire in one patch is pretty great, but it would be nice to see a buff to other forms of engi condi removal

butch.8136:

Well.. good or bad. Doesn’t matter.

They, for the first time (ever?), listened and responded QUICKLY through actions (not words).

AR has been around since launch… Since beta even.

Decap is a horribly gimmicky build, i do not disaprove of it getting nerfed. But why the bloody kitten does it get nerfed in pve and wvw? Its clearly and obviously an spvp problem, and yet here we go again. Nerf all the gamemodes based on a gimmick build in a gimmick gamemode.

Plesse give engi something against condis. AR nerf was needed but give at least us something we can use against condi warrior, Mesmer vor necro

thank you so much lol

Could we (engis) get something that helps against condis ? two conditions removed every 15 or 20 sec is not enough.

It was good to nerf AR. But please take a look at the engineer condition removal

Lupanic.6502:

Could we (engis) get something that helps against condis ? two conditions removed every 15 or 20 sec is not enough.

It was good to nerf AR. But please take a look at the engineer condition removal

sigils

Phaeton.9582:

Lupanic.6502:

Could we (engis) get something that helps against condis ? two conditions removed every 15 or 20 sec is not enough.

It was good to nerf AR. But please take a look at the engineer condition removal

sigils

I can only equip two (not like warrior with short switching times to have a “condi removal weapon”) and it does not help me in time critical situation (pin down from warrior before fun with hammer/axe , immob from mesmer before shatter, immob/stun from thief before PW and fear from necro before too much fun with keys)

Lupanic.6502:

Phaeton.9582:

Lupanic.6502:

Could we (engis) get something that helps against condis ? two conditions removed every 15 or 20 sec is not enough.

It was good to nerf AR. But please take a look at the engineer condition removal

sigils

I can only equip two (not like warrior with short switching times to have a “condi removal weapon”) and it does not help me in time critical situation (pin down from warrior before fun with hammer/axe , immob from mesmer before shatter, immob/stun from thief before PW and fear from necro before too much fun with keys)

You should be able to reflect pin down pretty easily now. Axe warrior is being nerfed to the ground. Without pin down hitting hammer will be much easier to avoid. If a Mesmer is shattering on you from an immob he’s outplaying you. Thief PW is getting a nerf.

Necros will continue to kitten on you. But you need to post in the perplexity thread about that!

Phaeton.9582:

Lupanic.6502:

Phaeton.9582:

Lupanic.6502:

Could we (engis) get something that helps against condis ? two conditions removed every 15 or 20 sec is not enough.

It was good to nerf AR. But please take a look at the engineer condition removal

sigils

I can only equip two (not like warrior with short switching times to have a “condi removal weapon”) and it does not help me in time critical situation (pin down from warrior before fun with hammer/axe , immob from mesmer before shatter, immob/stun from thief before PW and fear from necro before too much fun with keys)

You should be able to reflect pin down pretty easily now. Axe warrior is being nerfed to the ground. Without pin down hitting hammer will be much easier to avoid. If a Mesmer is shattering on you from an immob he’s outplaying you. Thief PW is getting a nerf.

Necros will continue to kitten on you. But you need to post in the perplexity thread about that!

Are you really trying to tell me that condition removal is not really needed? Come on.

They should give us something useful against condtions and replace AR not nerfing it and go on.

1 condition removed by tool belt ablilities for example.