Guild Wars 2

Clarification: These are not all top tier tournament specs, I’ve singled out the specs I find least fun to play against. Specs that go against the spirit of conquest in general or have massive amounts of clutter/bad mechanics.

I hear a lot of people on these forums say meta specs like hambow and condition engies/necros, , spirit rangers, bunker guardians take no skill.

For me, I’ve grown to understand these meta specs, and I honestly don’t mind playing against them. Yes, they all have passives and irritating things about them, but overall I find that the above listed builds do fit the descriptions and the general playstyle these classes should exhibit

Then there is a different tier of specs entirely, which I absolutely hate playing against:

-Condition Automated Response Engineer: Yes, Automated response isn’t that good for team queue. However, I can’t count the number of times I’ve seen an Automated Response Engi running around at 20% health for almost the entirety of a solo queue game. It’s stupid. It should be removed.

-Minion Necromancer: Differing from the AR Engi, the MM relies on extreme passive damage instead of passive survivability. Minions can deal thousands of damage in seconds if you arent constantly evading or blinding them. This is a 1v1 spec that puts the burden totally on the other play to outplay it. Oh, and you are also punished for killing the minions because they explode on death (which is also unblockable). It’s stupid. It should be removed.

-PU Mesmer: Not seen much in tpvp, but again: Summon phantasms, stealth, wait for enemy to kill what is damaging him and get giant stacks of condis because he kills your clones all while you gain aegis and protection and regen. It’s stupid, it should be removed.

-Decap Engineer: A spec that is based around shoving your enemy off point and forcing them to 2v1 you due to the fact that you are incredibly tanky and have Automated Response. Totally against the spirit of PvP/Conquest in general. Arenanet should create a special mode calling Engi Sumo wrestling, ban these guys from normal pvp, and send them there. They can even have their own leaderboards.

-Sword/Pistol Thief: The idea behind thief sword gameplay appears to be using 2 to port to your enemy and then being vulnerable while you deliver burst, and then being smart about when to port back or swap weapons. Well, GUESS WHAT with sword/pistol you get to evade during your burst. Another stupid spec which should be fixed.

infantrydiv.1620:

-Decap Engineer: A spec that is based around shoving your enemy off point and forcing them to 2v1 you due to the fact that you are incredibly tanky and have Automated Response. Totally against the spirit of PvP/Conquest in general. Arenanet should create a special mode calling Engi Sumo wrestling, ban these guys from normal pvp, and send them there. They can even have their own leaderboards.

That’s funny! There was actually a skyhammer golf tourney a few weeks back. Maybe that should be a thing (making the best of a terrible situation in both skyhammer and decap/cc spam engies).

BlackBeard.2873:

infantrydiv.1620:

-Decap Engineer: A spec that is based around shoving your enemy off point and forcing them to 2v1 you due to the fact that you are incredibly tanky and have Automated Response. Totally against the spirit of PvP/Conquest in general. Arenanet should create a special mode calling Engi Sumo wrestling, ban these guys from normal pvp, and send them there. They can even have their own leaderboards.

That’s funny! There was actually a skyhammer golf tourney a few weeks back. Maybe that should be a thing (making the best of a terrible situation in both skyhammer and decap/cc spam engies).

I wouldn’t be surprised if it was the new game mode they are talking about -.-

Personally I think decap engis are totally in line with the conquest mode of PvP as we have today. The game revolves around taking and holding points. The decap engi is the distillation of this philosophy. There’s no way around it other than to introduce new game modes.

Of course, the counter to the decap engi is the perma stability guardian who has plenty of options to remain exactly where they are. This is another build that is the natural consequence of conquest mode.

Are we surprised?

bhagwad.4281:

Personally I think decap engis are totally in line with the conquest mode of PvP as we have today. The game revolves around taking and holding points. The decap engi is the distillation of this philosophy. There’s no way around it other than to introduce new game modes.

Of course, the counter to the decap engi is the perma stability guardian who has plenty of options to remain exactly where they are. This is another build that is the natural consequence of conquest mode.

Are we surprised?

I dunno nerf it? Introducing a new game mode is going to introduce new problems and they will probably be slightly worst.

FGS exploiters insta one shotting trebs, players etc.

BlackBeard.2873:

infantrydiv.1620:

-Decap Engineer: A spec that is based around shoving your enemy off point and forcing them to 2v1 you due to the fact that you are incredibly tanky and have Automated Response. Totally against the spirit of PvP/Conquest in general. Arenanet should create a special mode calling Engi Sumo wrestling, ban these guys from normal pvp, and send them there. They can even have their own leaderboards.

That’s funny! There was actually a skyhammer golf tourney a few weeks back. Maybe that should be a thing (making the best of a terrible situation in both skyhammer and decap/cc spam engies).

Engies showed up and you wouldn’t believe who won….

Mesmers.

Ah, I love seeing all this MM hate.

Started from the bottom now were ’ere! >:D

bhagwad.4281:

Personally I think decap engis are totally in line with the conquest mode of PvP as we have today. The game revolves around taking and holding points. The decap engi is the distillation of this philosophy. There’s no way around it other than to introduce new game modes.

That’s where I think that you are incorrect.. the fact that decap Engineers revolve arond taking and holding points has nothing to do with the “are you kiddin’ me?” aspect of it. In fact, this is totally fair and balanced.

What’s not ‘ok’ about Decap Engineers’s is the strategy around abusing Automated Response for as indefinite a period of condition immunity as possible. The millisecond that the Decap Engineer has a goal of keeping his health level above that of his enemies, that is the precise time when Decap Engineer will be balanced in conquest.

ronpierce.2760:

Ah, I love seeing all this MM hate.

Started from the bottom now were ’ere! >:D

I love when the enemy team in soloq runs a Minionmancer.

My findings have shown that when the enemy team has a person totally dedicated to virtually AFKing on their home node, and leaving a 4v5 situation on far & mid, the probability of that person being a Minionmancer is 75%+.

Minionmancers have no mobility, so roaming between mid and home is a bit unpleasant, especially when a fast enemy just beats you back to the home you need to defend. Minionmancers have no decapping power, so assaulting far point is impossible as a double-role. Minionmancers have mediocre teamfighting power.

A Minionmancer in solo queue just stares longingly across the map, chained to home point. Please, fight me.

Lol, if that’s the role you enjoy, why aren’t you on a decap Engineer already?

Chaith.8256:

ronpierce.2760:

Ah, I love seeing all this MM hate.

Started from the bottom now were ’ere! >:D

I love when the enemy team in soloq runs a Minionmancer.

My findings have shown that when the enemy team has a person totally dedicated to virtually AFKing on their home node, and leaving a 4v5 situation on far & mid, the probability of that person being a Minionmancer is 75%+.

Minionmancers have no mobility, so roaming between mid and home is a bit unpleasant, especially when a fast enemy just beats you back to the home you need to defend. Minionmancers have no decapping power, so assaulting far point is impossible as a double-role. Minionmancers have mediocre teamfighting power.

A Minionmancer in solo queue just stares longingly across the map, chained to home point. Please, fight me.

Lol, if that’s the role you enjoy, why aren’t you on a decap Engineer already?

While I do see this happening frequently, my thread is about builds which I think frustrate people and make the game less fun. MM is a troll 1v1 build, and I’ve seen it played effectively as a far point assaulter as well.

I made top 10 (7) in tPvP with it doing 1/2/2(far) me and a spirit ranger going far. I just roamed with the spirit ranger and we did just fine. I agree MM is actually an UNDERPOWERED (wutttt?!?!!?) spec, and needs help. They’re nerfing its 1v1 viability but forgetting its other mass issues:
-Terrible team use
-No reliable cc breaks outside of wurm which has a 1.5 sec pre-cast and often does more harm than good to sacrifice
-No stability
-Terrible Mobility
-No extra evades/vigor/protection/block
-LF generation comes down to pretty much dagger 1 hits or pets dying, and if you don’t get LF you’re basically a sitting duck.
-Huge weakness to aoe cc/snares/kiting.
- Huge weakness to aoe damage.
- Purely single target.

People don’t understand the true dynamics of mm, they just see a bunch of names and die and freak out. :P

MM could certainly use some less dmging pets, especially for 1v1. I can agree to that. But they desperately need help in many many other ways. I play it because I enjoy it, it does take a lot of ability management, especially to CC lock someone enough for pets to have uptime. The problem is nubs don’t require cc to hit, hence why its so strong against terrible players and 1v1 in general. But its in no way the strongest 1v1 build and having played one in actual competitive gameplay, its not nearly as easy as people make it out to be. It’s hawk… Rabbit killer for life.

Also, Caith, I play it because I love MM. I played it for a very long time, when I began people made fun of it for being an “easy kill” and said I’d be useless. Not going to quit because a couple rabbits got kitten :P

you forgot condi regen banner warrior

I find condition warriors to be difficult due to their unpredictable skill animations and long base condi durations. Once you get impaled, torment stacks continuously get applied. Even if you try and cleanse the torment, the torment stacks refresh and get re applied.

Warriors have access to the longest duration burns in the whole game. Combustive shot, on its own, applies 8 seconds of burning. Bow #2 skill, in melee range, applies 6 seconds of burning. Bow #1 basic attack applies 2 seconds of burning per hit through a fire field (combustive shot).

-Minion Necromancer: Differing from the AR Engi, the MM relies on extreme passive damage instead of passive survivability. Minions can deal thousands of damage in seconds if you arent constantly evading or blinding them. This is a 1v1 spec that puts the burden totally on the other play to outplay it. Oh, and you are also punished for killing the minions because they explode on death (which is also unblockable). It’s stupid. It should be removed.

Minions will be nerfed the next balance patch so unblockable explosions are blockable.. so i think this problem will be solved a bit..

i do agree that certain builds are very frustrating to play agains and the only vindication people have when they face Mata builds is ..typing:
Well.. at least i don’t play meta

Decap Engi’s and MM Necro’s that know what they’re doing are very obnoxious.

The lol specs are:

decap engi, hambow, spirit ranger, mm necro, s/p thief, pu mesmer and bunker guard.

Soon, we might be able to add a burst ele to the list if they keep the burst the same while increasing surivability.

infantrydiv.1620:

-Sword/Pistol Thief: The idea behind thief sword gameplay appears to be using 2 to port to your enemy and then being vulnerable while you deliver burst, and then being smart about when to port back or swap weapons. Well, GUESS WHAT with sword/pistol you get to evade during your burst. Another stupid spec which should be fixed.

This this this. It’s is extremely stupid to run into a constantly evading thief who is also killing your teammate and there’s nothing you can do about it….even after your teammate goes down they just get stealth stomped before you can res them.

Warriors, Guardians and Engineers are somewhat masking the true strength of thieves and allowing thieves to fly under the radar.

Cynz.9437:

FGS exploiters insta one shotting trebs, players etc.

Killing a treb with a 3 minute CD elite is fine.
As for one-shotting players…sorry what? If you’re referring to Rush + Lightning Flash trick, the AoE is absolutely tiny. If the target even moves a few inches they will be out of it, moving targets are out of the question (and everyone is always moving). Whoever dies to FGS should feel bad.

Cynz.9437:

FGS exploiters insta one shotting trebs, players etc.

FGS blink is a fine technique to destroy buildings simply because it has to be aimed, has a base 180-second cool-down and requires [Lightning Flash] to be up in order to use it. If a player outright dies to this combo, it is absolutely his/her fault because its damage (although very high) has a very limited AoE.

Pressing [Lightning Flash] and [Fiery Rush] is on a level far more balanced than most other builds or “combos” in this game.

totally agree. hambow is annoying, but i would rather fight it over any of those pistol whip thief, mm necro, decap engi, condition war, condition mesmer.

as of FGS, i actually consider it a skill shot, rather then being annoying and stupid.

@Wintel, Swagg: you are assuming people play 1v1….
as far as treb kills goes, it kind of does matter if your treb gets instantly killed at begin of the match

Simon.3794:

totally agree. hambow is annoying, but i would rather fight it over any of those pistol whip thief, mm necro, decap engi, condition war, condition mesmer.

as of FGS, i actually consider it a skill shot, rather then being annoying and stupid.

To be honest, other than combustive shot, after the cast time and animation is added to pin down you will be able to play quite reactively against hambow warriors. This is why I’m not calling out this spec, even though it hardcounters both my main classes.

Sorry to act so nub but what is FGS? i know it’s a skill and everything but i’m just having it go past my head like a flying pig.

Souldestructor.9576:

Sorry to act so nub but what is FGS? i know it’s a skill and everything but i’m just having it go past my head like a flying pig.

Fiery Greatsword, elementalist’s elite conjure weapon.

Oh thank you very much!

And don’t let anyone tell you FGS is overpowered in PvE, because it’s totally NOT and I will slay anyone who dares talk badly about my gigantic flaming sword that is totally NOT compensating for anything -_-

- 5 signet warriors
- Signet of Resolve guardians
- 3 signet rangers
- 4 signet mesmers

Probably not what you guys were thinking of but these make me think “Are you kidding me????” every day lol.

fishball.7204:

- 5 signet warriors
- 4 signet mesmers

Probably not what you guys were thinking of but these make me think “Are you kidding me????” every day lol.

Cutting it close with your 3 signet mesmer.

Such a stalker Curie <3

I would play the hell out of engineer sumo! Time to make some magic anet!

Wintel.4873:

Killing a treb with a 3 minute CD elite is fine.
As for one-shotting players…sorry what? If you’re referring to Rush + Lightning Flash trick, the AoE is absolutely tiny. If the target even moves a few inches they will be out of it, moving targets are out of the question (and everyone is always moving). Whoever dies to FGS should feel bad.

You are missing a few key facts about GW2 PvP.

#1.

Downed Bodies don’t move that much. Neither do the people reviving them until it’s too late. When someone dunks a downed body with the FGS rush & Lightning Flash, there are going to be tons of frustrated players. This is a fact. Thank god there are only so many good Elementalists that are coordinated enough to do this, it is quite rare. It pretty much takes Elementalist becoming a FOTM profession where there are 2 per team in order to recognize that this is a VERY dangerous mechanic and should be tweaked.

Chaith.8256:

Wintel.4873:

Killing a treb with a 3 minute CD elite is fine.
As for one-shotting players…sorry what? If you’re referring to Rush + Lightning Flash trick, the AoE is absolutely tiny. If the target even moves a few inches they will be out of it, moving targets are out of the question (and everyone is always moving). Whoever dies to FGS should feel bad.

You are missing a few key facts about GW2 PvP.

#1.

Downed Bodies don’t move that much. Neither do the people reviving them until it’s too late. When someone dunks a downed body with the PISTOL WHIP, there are going to be tons of frustrated players. This is a fact. Thank god there are so many THIEVES that are coordinated (lol) enough to do this, it is quite common. It pretty much took THIEVES becoming a FOTM profession where there are 2 per team in order to recognize that this is a VERY dangerous mechanic and should be tweaked.

am i doing it right?

AR – Does not remove existing conditions, just prevent new conditions, if not running elixir gun, most of these engi only have 1 source (turret active) to get rid of some conditions, thus is not a hard counter to conditions class. Most condi spike will be able to burn their 25% health down with the ones left on them. If engi want to stay around 25% to prevent new conditions , they risk themselves to spike damage. And in the case of 1v1 a condi class, (necro: fear, mesmer daze/stun, thief daze, warrior stun) should be able to prevent the engineer from activating the turret.

Minion Necromancer – Take Fetid Consumption → minion die fast
Does not take Fetid Consumption and use things like transfusion, weak against conditions. No break stun, once minion dead becomes quite weak. Take well of power for condition handling and breakstun → 1 less minion, gimps dps

PU Mesmer: Mechanic is to go invis, which result in losing the points, that’s why u don’t see them often in tpvp. Quite strong in 1v1 but once taking PU, some spec lack condi removal, but depends. Damage is usually on the low and predictable side. Aoe (beware of D.Dissipation, thus recommend range aoe) + Smart targeting + prediction of mesmer movement will help.

Decap Engineer – gets straight up countered by guardian 0/0/10/30/30 and hollowed ground. Rampage as one, Dolyak sig + Balanced stance ham bow. Does not have any access to stability, thus can also be screwed by push back class. No break stun unless take elixir gun, then that will mean a drop of tool kit. Elixir gun blast finisher is nice but will move Decap engi off the point as well.

S/P thief – Cannot comment much, personally no problem fighting one with certain classes, but have not played the class well enough to give opinions.

I find decap engies pretty easy to kill tbh, they don’t do much damage.

Cynz.9437:

FGS exploiters insta one shotting trebs, players etc.

Pretty sure it’s a legitimate strategy or it’d be nerfed by now. When someone pulls it off on me, I have to give them kudos because it’s not easy to do.

Also there’s burning speed, burning retreat (staff), and burning retreat (lava axe) that do the same thing.

ronpierce.2760:

I made top 10 (7) in tPvP with it doing 1/2/2(far) me and a spirit ranger going far. I just roamed with the spirit ranger and we did just fine. I agree MM is actually an UNDERPOWERED (wutttt?!?!!?) spec, and needs help. They’re nerfing its 1v1 viability but forgetting its other mass issues:
-Terrible team use
-No reliable cc breaks outside of wurm which has a 1.5 sec pre-cast and often does more harm than good to sacrifice
-No stability
-Terrible Mobility
-No extra evades/vigor/protection/block
-LF generation comes down to pretty much dagger 1 hits or pets dying, and if you don’t get LF you’re basically a sitting duck.
-Huge weakness to aoe cc/snares/kiting.
- Huge weakness to aoe damage.
- Purely single target.

People don’t understand the true dynamics of mm, they just see a bunch of names and die and freak out. :P

MM could certainly use some less dmging pets, especially for 1v1. I can agree to that. But they desperately need help in many many other ways. I play it because I enjoy it, it does take a lot of ability management, especially to CC lock someone enough for pets to have uptime. The problem is nubs don’t require cc to hit, hence why its so strong against terrible players and 1v1 in general. But its in no way the strongest 1v1 build and having played one in actual competitive gameplay, its not nearly as easy as people make it out to be. It’s hawk… Rabbit killer for life.

Necro has options for being a strong team fighter. You choose not to take them.

Your logic in this post is the same as “PU mesmer is underpowered because it isn’t good in team fights and lacks stability”.

You choose to play with this scrubby, annoying build. So yeah, it should have weaknesses.

Minions should not be massive raw damage against any amount of targets, single or otherwise. Your damage should come primarily from you with telegraphed attacks.

Again, I don’t know how much clearer this can be.

Minions are telegraphed attacks. They’re like conditions… Except you can kill them and kite them. I apply them by keeping them up and ccing so they can attack. We make up for our SEVERE lack in passive defenses (evade attacks/vigor/protection/stability) in passive damage. But tbh the bad outweighs the good for us poor defenseless MM.

ronpierce.2760:

Minions are telegraphed attacks. They’re like conditions… Except you can kill them and kite them.

How you figure’ minions have telegraphs? Everything pretty much just instantly womps on you every few seconds. Rigor Mortis on the Fiend doesn’t have a telegraph as far as I’ve been able to pay attention to, the Golem Charge is fast and instant. The Putrid Explosion on Bone Minions is un-telegraphed as well.

I guess you feel that actively reacting to the passives is a legitimate counter, and what should be done, but I find that topic kind of absurd.

infantrydiv.1620:

Your logic in this post is the same as “PU mesmer is underpowered because it isn’t good in team fights and lacks stability”.

You choose to play with this scrubby, annoying build. So yeah, it should have weaknesses.

Minions should not be massive raw damage against any amount of targets, single or otherwise. Your damage should come primarily from you with telegraphed attacks.

Again, I don’t know how much clearer this can be.

I second this. Minionmancer does not need to be useful in other ways, in PvP. For the good of the game, all attacking A.I builds need to be flat out inferior to non-AI counterparts when used in mid to high competition.

The reason for taking A.I in tPvP should be one of these:

• The A.I is supporting your team instead of auto-attacking. (Ranger Spirits)
• You are a new player and want a build that is going to make you as effective as possible at low levels of competition.

Auto-attack based A.I builds need to either disappear from tPvP, or remain shrouded in obscurity. Spirit Weapons, Turrets, Minions, Thief Goons, all of these abilities are just cancerous to a competitive game that is enjoyable to play, watch, and cast.

Oh, Caith, I was just being trolly. I wish minions did like a quarter of their auto-damage but supplied more healing and the minion traits were merged so the necro could take more to benefit themselves, of course of course. I just like being a butthead. GW2 pvp is so far down hill, fixing MM isn’t even going to scratch the surface for issues.

ronpierce.2760:

Oh, Caith, I was just being trolly. I wish minions did like a quarter of their auto-damage but supplied more healing and the minion traits were merged so the necro could take more to benefit themselves, of course of course. I just like being a butthead. GW2 pvp is so far down hill, fixing MM isn’t even going to scratch the surface for issues.

For me, I’d like to have an overall big nerf to minion damage, and a few traits removed, a few traits merged. But, new traits for specific minions added. For example, I’d make Bone Minions explode in a cloud that pulsed poison and weakness for a short duration, and reduce the explosion damage to say, around 500. Then, add a master trait where Bone Minions remove two boons from foes hit by the explosions.

This would actually promote smart play, and minions for a specific purpose (I like the role Flesh Wurm has in high tier play currently). For example, if you are a backpoint condition necromancer, you can bring bone minions to rip that warriors stability and poison/weaken him as soon as he switches into hammer.

The point would be to make minions actually much better utility wise while making them less troll in 1v1 situations. Specific minion traits and abilities would encourage people to only take one or two minions rather than loading up their entire bar and making the spec uberclutter

meichor.7809:

AR – Does not remove existing conditions, just prevent new conditions, if not running elixir gun, most of these engi only have 1 source (turret active) to get rid of some conditions, thus is not a hard counter to conditions class. Most condi spike will be able to burn their 25% health down with the ones left on them. If engi want to stay around 25% to prevent new conditions , they risk themselves to spike damage. And in the case of 1v1 a condi class, (necro: fear, mesmer daze/stun, thief daze, warrior stun) should be able to prevent the engineer from activating the turret.

Minion Necromancer – Take Fetid Consumption -> minion die fast
Does not take Fetid Consumption and use things like transfusion, weak against conditions. No break stun, once minion dead becomes quite weak. Take well of power for condition handling and breakstun -> 1 less minion, gimps dps

PU Mesmer: Mechanic is to go invis, which result in losing the points, that’s why u don’t see them often in tpvp. Quite strong in 1v1 but once taking PU, some spec lack condi removal, but depends. Damage is usually on the low and predictable side. Aoe (beware of D.Dissipation, thus recommend range aoe) + Smart targeting + prediction of mesmer movement will help.

Decap Engineer – gets straight up countered by guardian 0/0/10/30/30 and hollowed ground. Rampage as one, Dolyak sig + Balanced stance ham bow. Does not have any access to stability, thus can also be screwed by push back class. No break stun unless take elixir gun, then that will mean a drop of tool kit. Elixir gun blast finisher is nice but will move Decap engi off the point as well.

S/P thief – Cannot comment much, personally no problem fighting one with certain classes, but have not played the class well enough to give opinions.

Please don’t defend these builds. In your retort about them you illustrated why these builds are bad for the game. In order to be viable in any way against them you need to run a specific set of utilities and traits and then hope someone with strong duration conditions, or high burst capacity comes along. When a guardian ‘has’ to trait a certain way with specific skills just to counter one annoying build spec that is when the game is failing. Ultimately the goal should be a player can run whatever they want and it is their timely usage of it and positioning that will result in whether they win or lose..it should never come down to my rock beats your scissors, but losses to that persons paper. That is when it becomes apex build wars and build diversity just becomes a dream.

CntrlAltDefeat.1465:

meichor.7809:

AR – Does not remove existing conditions, just prevent new conditions, if not running elixir gun, most of these engi only have 1 source (turret active) to get rid of some conditions, thus is not a hard counter to conditions class. Most condi spike will be able to burn their 25% health down with the ones left on them. If engi want to stay around 25% to prevent new conditions , they risk themselves to spike damage. And in the case of 1v1 a condi class, (necro: fear, mesmer daze/stun, thief daze, warrior stun) should be able to prevent the engineer from activating the turret.

Minion Necromancer – Take Fetid Consumption -> minion die fast
Does not take Fetid Consumption and use things like transfusion, weak against conditions. No break stun, once minion dead becomes quite weak. Take well of power for condition handling and breakstun -> 1 less minion, gimps dps

PU Mesmer: Mechanic is to go invis, which result in losing the points, that’s why u don’t see them often in tpvp. Quite strong in 1v1 but once taking PU, some spec lack condi removal, but depends. Damage is usually on the low and predictable side. Aoe (beware of D.Dissipation, thus recommend range aoe) + Smart targeting + prediction of mesmer movement will help.

Decap Engineer – gets straight up countered by guardian 0/0/10/30/30 and hollowed ground. Rampage as one, Dolyak sig + Balanced stance ham bow. Does not have any access to stability, thus can also be screwed by push back class. No break stun unless take elixir gun, then that will mean a drop of tool kit. Elixir gun blast finisher is nice but will move Decap engi off the point as well.

S/P thief – Cannot comment much, personally no problem fighting one with certain classes, but have not played the class well enough to give opinions.

Please don’t defend these builds. In your retort about them you illustrated why these builds are bad for the game. In order to be viable in any way against them you need to run a specific set of utilities and traits and then hope someone with strong duration conditions, or high burst capacity comes along. When a guardian ‘has’ to trait a certain way with specific skills just to counter one annoying build spec that is when the game is failing. Ultimately the goal should be a player can run whatever they want and it is their timely usage of it and positioning that will result in whether they win or lose..it should never come down to my rock beats your scissors, but losses to that persons paper. That is when it becomes apex build wars and build diversity just becomes a dream.

0/0/10/30/30 guardian is very common, not only because it counters decap, but it’s just a strong and popular build overall. Don’t get me wrong, I would LOVE build diversity, but it’s pretty much a personal choice between “choosing a easy to use, easy to win” build vs a build that could be more versatile but requires more effort and practice to achieve the same if not better goal. Sadly, with a skill level of our gaming community, most people chose the easy play easy win route. Thus, making these “are you kidding me” builds stand out.

Shockwave.1230:

Cynz.9437:

FGS exploiters insta one shotting trebs, players etc.

Pretty sure it’s a legitimate strategy or it’d be nerfed by now. When someone pulls it off on me, I have to give them kudos because it’s not easy to do.

Also there’s burning speed, burning retreat (staff), and burning retreat (lava axe) that do the same thing.

they didn’t fix stuck /dance bug and its been around forever… so i wouldn’t rely on “what is not fixed is fine”

Cynz.9437:

Shockwave.1230:

Cynz.9437:

FGS exploiters insta one shotting trebs, players etc.

Pretty sure it’s a legitimate strategy or it’d be nerfed by now. When someone pulls it off on me, I have to give them kudos because it’s not easy to do.

Also there’s burning speed, burning retreat (staff), and burning retreat (lava axe) that do the same thing.

they didn’t fix stuck /dance bug and its been around forever… so i wouldn’t rely on “what is not fixed is fine”

The FGS is used as part of Dungeon speed runs and destroying objects quickly in WvW and sPvP. They are significant parts of the game, and would have been dealt with if it were a bug. While you claim it’s a bug, other people claim it’s a feature.

I’m of the mindset that it’s a feature, because it’s something that takes skill and/or coordination to pull off, and I’m all for giving high reward to skillful and coordinated play.

Shockwave.1230:

The FGS is used as part of Dungeon speed runs and destroying objects quickly in WvW and sPvP. They are significant parts of the game, and would have been dealt with if it were a bug. While you claim it’s a bug, other people claim it’s a feature.

I’m of the mindset that it’s a feature, because it’s something that takes skill and/or coordination to pull off, and I’m all for giving high reward to skillful and coordinated play.

100Nade burst was not a feature. It was removed – despite taking coordination and high risk.

If Anet feels that a 20k Fiery Rush corpse cleave is a thing, it’s definitely not exempt.

lol at engi sumo wrestling

Shockwave.1230:

The FGS is used as part of Dungeon speed runs and destroying objects quickly in WvW and sPvP. They are significant parts of the game, and would have been dealt with if it were a bug. While you claim it’s a bug, other people claim it’s a feature.

Along the same lines… how long was the exploit on Foefire/Kyhlo known for, before it got fixed? And why does the same exploit still exist on Skyhammer? Totally a feature, and we can definitely rely on quick hotfixes to bugs. Yeah.

Far point Mes + Minion Necro portal plays = new age petting zoo meta.

Sars.8792:

Chaith.8256:

Wintel.4873:

Killing a treb with a 3 minute CD elite is fine.
As for one-shotting players…sorry what? If you’re referring to Rush + Lightning Flash trick, the AoE is absolutely tiny. If the target even moves a few inches they will be out of it, moving targets are out of the question (and everyone is always moving). Whoever dies to FGS should feel bad.

You are missing a few key facts about GW2 PvP.

#1.

Downed Bodies don’t move that much. Neither do the people reviving them until it’s too late. When someone dunks a downed body with the PISTOL WHIP, there are going to be tons of frustrated players. This is a fact. Thank god there are so many THIEVES that are coordinated (lol) enough to do this, it is quite common. It pretty much took THIEVES becoming a FOTM profession where there are 2 per team in order to recognize that this is a VERY dangerous mechanic and should be tweaked.

am i doing it right?

Did you seriously compare pistol whip damage to a blinked fiery rush?

FGS should be fixed before they fix elementalist as a whole. The class is currently in a bad state but if it ever became stronger in TPVP you’d see more FGS abuse on downed bodies and that one particular skill could turn out to be as much cancer as any of the other terribads things about this game PVP.

Shockwave.1230:

The FGS is used as part of Dungeon speed runs and destroying objects quickly in WvW and sPvP. They are significant parts of the game, and would have been dealt with if it were a bug. While you claim it’s a bug, other people claim it’s a feature.

FGS is the single most overpowered skill in PVE. If you’re going to mention PVE there’s even more reason there to nerf it than in PVP. Literally the corner stone of any speedrun is stacking ele with FGS and pressing 4 in corners. So great, much gameplay, wow. This isn’t to say I never used FGS in PVE, I did, but it’s not my job to balance the game, it’s anet’s. I’ll play whatever is most efficient, it’s not the player’s job to kitten himself with subpar specs or group compositions, it’s anet’s job to do something about overpowered skills. FGS deals absolutely abnormal damage and you’d have to be seriously blind to think fiery rush has any place in a balanced game. This game PVE is a serious joke when literally any dungeon boss (fractals not included) melts in under 3 seconds from a party’s worth of FGS spam.