Guild Wars 2

I understand that there is a nerf to Backstab underway that’s probably too late to stop.

I’d still like to point out that when people complain about Backstab they are really complaining about 3 different abilities all hitting in conjunction for maximum burst. That is, and always was the problem with the Backstab combo, not the Backstab damage itself.

I hope ANet understands that and doesn’t just straight-up nerf Backstab because it’s a essential part of Thief Dagger DPS.

To iterate, when you are being gibbed by a Thief, you are typically being hit by 3 abilities within a second.

Those are:
1. Steal which is a 900 range Shadowstep that will poison the target, steal an ability and in conjunction with Mug (a trait) hit for about 1000-6000 damage, depending on the build (a full glass-cannon will achieve 6k crits, a more moderate Backstabber only about 4k)

2. Cloak and Dagger is the second ability that typically hits as it can be pre-cast. This is also what puts the Thief in Stealth allowing him to Backstab. Cloak and Dagger doesn’t usually hit very hard unless you are a full glass-cannon. Then it reaches up to 5000 critical. 2000-3000 are more common for moderate Backstabbers or non-crits. This ability also consumes roughly half of the Thieves initiative.

3. Backstab is a Dagger melee attack which is only available from Stealth and only hits hard when behind the enemy. It is by far the biggest hitter but also the easiest to avoid. Against glass-cannon players this ability can surpass 10.000 damage if the Thief himself is a glass-cannon. However the damage quickly scales down to 6000 against more defensive targets. It drops even lower as soon the the Thief isn’t an all-out glass-cannon.

So yes, Backstab may be the biggest hitter, but in my opinion it’s not what makes Thieves OP. The damage done by Steal + Mug is however. Up to 6000 damage on an instant-shadowstep ability with 900 range, now that’s overpowered.

In general it also seems that Thief damage in general scales excessively well with offensive stats (maybe this is a general problem rather than a Thief specific issue). Even a slight drop in offensive stats leads to a significant drop in PvP damage.

The most seamless and efficient way to nerf the Backstab combo would thus be:

1. Nerf the damage generated by Mug. Up to 6000 instant damage on such a low-tier trait seems excessive. A 30% nerf seems justified.

2. Adding a 0.3 second cast-time to Steal would make it impossible to pre-cast Cloak and Dagger fixing many of the burst issues associated with Backstab.

Those two simples changes would do a lot to mitigate the complaints about Thieves. None of these touches the damage of key abilities however. Addressing the core is always better than fixing the symptoms.

Backstab wouldn’t be bad if they made it a multiple hit attack like 100b where if you get hit by a full combo it’s your fault. Of course BS could be mobile as rooting a theif would be silly.

I play Warrior but I have no problem with these builds because I use Fear Me but just because it CAN be countered doesn’t make it less of a problem. I feel like I have to run these builds in order to not be destroyed in SPvP but the 3-4 thieves on the enemy side.

Or we can nerf bot the core and the symtoms everything feels weird. 90% of the thieves are runing this. Thing is that is extremely easy to counter what sucks is that thieves can restealth everytime they want it seems so many ways to stealth and gain initiative, then when you are around 50% hp is simply a heartseeker fest.

I am playing a condition thief which is funny and effective i hope this “i only need 2 fingers to play” build gets so nerfed that becomes unplayable with this purpose and people start being creative.

i think that main problem is that steal dont have animation/cast time…

making C’n’D + Steal + Backstab combo in less then 1sec, silly concept

Quick fix:

You can’t cast Steal when channeling an ability.

Done.

GlockworK.2954:

Quick fix:

You can’t cast Steal when channeling an ability.

Done.

This would totally screw over S/D and P/D, which use CnD -Steal as a way to close the gap and go into stealth, not to instagib you. I’m not sure how it would affect PvE Thieves. Or, you could just make it to where Steal doesn’t apply venoms. That seems like it could work.

If you really want to fix it.

Remove mug.

That simple. A 10 point trait that gives a free 6k hit on steal? I thought it would’ve been changed before release, but it wasn’t lol.

It’s like the biggest factor in burst for nearly any thief build.

Or atleast make it a 30 point trait in Trickery. If you really want that extreme steal burst then you have to give up your Power or Crit tree.

Other classes don’t have access to such high damage single strike abilities so thats the main part of the issue. The other is on top of that you can chain other big hitters in rapid succession.

Beyond that, thieves have easier escape than most other classes so they are able to pull off some pure glass builds with greater success than the rest. Mesmers are in that boat as well.

BurrTheKing.8571:

Backstab wouldn’t be bad if they made it a multiple hit attack like 100b where if you get hit by a full combo it’s your fault. Of course BS could be mobile as rooting a theif would be silly.

a glass cannon warrior is every bit as glassy as a glass cannon thief. probably more so, if we consider that stealth is a hell of a defence on itself

hence if 100b selfroots, backstab should too

yeah backstab is not the main culprit,

it is MUG + cnd

no trait shoul do 6k damage in itself, maybe we could petition to change mug to deal bleeding instead of direct damage,

and or CnD should act as a preparatory skill like black powder of offhand pistol(meaning less damage) instant cast, low damage

GlockworK.2954:

Quick fix:

You can’t cast Steal when channeling an ability.

Done.

What other first tier trait do you know that does up to 6k dmg?
Most are typically 5% situational dmg buffs, this is a 33%+ bonus to a spike.

and just incase that backstab is nerfed, and NOT mug+CnD,

other thief can also just use mug+CnD+tactical strike, same destructive power+dazing/bling ability

garethh.3518:

GlockworK.2954:

Quick fix:

You can’t cast Steal when channeling an ability.

Done.

What other first tier trait do you know that does up to 6k dmg?
Most are typically 5% situational dmg buffs, this is a 33%+ bonus to a spike.

When did I ever mention Mug?

The problem is the Mug > CnD > Backstab combo that opens the QQ floodgates. People are complaining that they can’t react to that combo. Delaying CnD after a Steal is really the only way to fix this.

Stay on point good sir.

If the ability to precast CnD and then steal is taken away, then other set ups will be hit pretty hard. For example, I use CnD+Steal (Mug) as a finisher for my S/D Thief. It’s not the end of the world if it gets taken away, but it will make my life a lot harder especially since I’m not a burst thief.

why has none suggested just leave 1 of the working builds alone and fix broken skills so there will be more useful builds? this goes for all classes not just theif.

tom.7468:

why has none suggested just leave 1 of the working builds alone and fix broken skills so there will be more useful builds? this goes for all classes not just theif.

Because the thief working build downs people in 2-3s. If we buff all skills to that level PvP is just going to be a skill-less insta-gib fest. You’re correct that thieves would change builds if unload would do 20k damage, but this games PvP would die so incredibly fast.

I play shortbow main and my burst is mug, typically in the 2.5 – 5K range depending on target (I also try to combo it with pistol whip, but… well PW is pretty easy to avoid). I would hate to see that go completely, but perhaps a toning down is appropriate, i dunno – on a 45s CD the dmg seems reasonable to me?

Re OP and (2) I fully agree. Steal just needs a .5 sec cast time and it will avoid the CnD precast which gives the 7-10K combo and stealth which is where the QQ really comes from. If targets got a second to dodge the CnD, which they would if you couldnt pre-cast it, targets get a meaningful chance to fight back and the QQ will disappear. Yes, target will still eat say 2 – 4K mug, but that is hardly gamebreaking on 45s CD.

Note if steal is fixed in this way the signet that allows a shadowstep will still allow the CnD precast combo. It is just that backstab burst builds will have to lose something else from their build in order to incorporate it.

Also if they are going to fix steal in this way, they might consider fixing similar issues in other classes – eg lightning flash instant cast and churning earth or whatever it is for elementalist (although that is quite different in that CE has a long cast time, easy to see it coming and time your dodge).

In any event i am very interested to see what changes are coming on Nov 15. The general smt about toning down burst across the game generally (not just thieves) is definitely a move in the right direction, imo. 3 sec fights are for FPS, not MMOs.

If a thief can not kill quickly there is no reason to ever play one. A thief is not meant to “brawl” like a warrior or guardian. Plus, without thieves, the WvW battlefield will be boring as you can freely stroll around it without worry.

Thieves add excitement to the battlefield. Instead of QQ’ing about thieves go play PvE and kill some skritt.

Zunhar.4079:

GlockworK.2954:

Quick fix:

You can’t cast Steal when channeling an ability.

Done.

This would totally screw over S/D and P/D, which use CnD -Steal as a way to close the gap and go into stealth, not to instagib you. I’m not sure how it would affect PvE Thieves. Or, you could just make it to where Steal doesn’t apply venoms. That seems like it could work.

Not really. There’s a trait that makes using Steal stealth you. Granted it’s buggy and doesn’t work 100%.

I think Dee Jay’s suggestions are good ones, but I would like to see them in addition to a backstab nerf.

In my opinion, many aspects of the thief are broken. It can stealth too much, do too much DPS and evade too readily. All of those things need to be toned down so that thieves are more killable and less lethal. If in the first instance the thief class gets over-nerfed, I’d say that’s better than under-nerfed. They’ve been OP since launch, so spending some time under powered would not be out of turn.

This may sound harsh, but for every good thief, or person who just likes playing thiefy type characters, there are half a dozen people who have rolled into the class just for some easy mode killing.

mug 1k~2k damage crit
fix thief stealth time its impossible to react when the thief already casted 3 abilities within 0.5 second and then he pops up on your screen
fix air runes and lighting runes
make it so that a thief is forced to wave at you for 2 seconds before he can use steal range can increased to 950 then

Cribbage.2056:

I think Dee Jay’s suggestions are good ones, but I would like to see them in addition to a backstab nerf.

In my opinion, many aspects of the thief are broken. It can stealth too much, do too much DPS and evade too readily. All of those things need to be toned down so that thieves are more killable and less lethal. If in the first instance the thief class gets over-nerfed, I’d say that’s better than under-nerfed. They’ve been OP since launch, so spending some time under powered would not be out of turn.

This may sound harsh, but for every good thief, or person who just likes playing thiefy type characters, there are half a dozen people who have rolled into the class just for some easy mode killing.

You know what? Sure why not? If they don’t harm core mechanics, they can outfit me with a sword made pillows. It could be fun honing what’s left into a legitimate weapon.

Us elementalist demand righteous justice. We took a 50% nerf when we could do a 4 sec burst kill someone, thieves deserve the same!!!!! (in all caps)

Just kidding (well I would like our damage back). Backstab isn’t the easiest skill to dodge, out of the 3 listed it is, problem is you are invisible when doing it, so if someone doesn’t notice their heath drop and dodge immediately then goodbye (by someone I mean a low health elementalist)

The problem I have with backstab is that even if you dodge or mitigate the initial burst, a good thief will just restealth and open up on you again albeit minus the Steal

This is why it will always be better than 100b. If the glass cannon warrior misses his combo, he might as well get up and go grab a drink or something because he’s going to be waiting for the respawn timer

PS: For a 10pt trait, mug is insanely good. To put it in comparision, the necro equivalent, a 10pt trait called Terror that makes fear do damage hits for about drumroll 500 hp

I wouldn’t mind a complete overhaul on the thief traits and utilities. Make thieves more control based, and more team oriented for fights at keep. Still have the backdoor/roamer thief for tPvP because those are good builds.

Why a complete overhaul? Well their burst is broken and way to easy to do based on their traits and utilities. It makes the class a pub stomping class, and a class that everyone would pick to grind glory with. You don’t need something like that in this game.

Backstab is fine correct. The assassin’s signet + stealth for a 12k backstab doesn’t work anymore. So Backstab is balanced. But mug does good damage, especially when you go rooted or the thief has basilisk venom. Most players can break Basilisk Venom, the root is different. If you see him putting a poison on use a stability and you will be able to run. If the thief has Sigent of Shadows, he will be able to catch you and still C&D, and Backstab though.

As I see it, thiefs have a couple of days of playtime left before it’s time to reroll.
Anet have shown that they listen to excatly ALL the QQ about the thief class so i’m expecting massive nerfs to all thief builds.

calling it now

- Backstab damage reduced by 50%
- Mug removed and swapped with a simple “gain 1 boon on steal”
- Clock and dagger no longer stealth you and damage reduce 50%

That will render all burst builds except maybe S/D and S/P somewhat useable. It will also make condition thiefs pretty bad as they rely on stealthing alot.

Hopefully ranger’s get some love so we have a fun class to reroll. As it stands now rangers are free kills.

edamber.1549:

- Backstab damage reduced by 50%
- Mug removed and swapped with a simple “gain 1 boon on steal”
- Cloak and dagger no longer stealth you and damage reduce 50%

- Backstab damage reduced by 50%
- Mug removed and swapped with a simple “gain 1 boon on steal”
- Cloak and dagger no longer stealth you and damage reduce 50%

/quote]

50% means half by the way. And Backstab does, not always crit for 14k. Probably can’t even crit for 14k with the Assassin’s Signet change. the most common is 11k -12k on another theif doing the same build or an ele or a very squishy necro or warrior. That damage cut in half. Do the math buddy. C&D crits for like 5-7 on a squish warrior necro. Mug Doesn’t need to be removed, the thing that increases it to 1,200 range needs to be.

There is a trait in the Trickery tree, that makes it a 1,200 range and makes it far hard to notice the thief is blowing all his CDs.

Pro Tip: Utilities are not on the same GCD with your main abilities GCD and already C&D is not a the same GCD with steal.

EoNxBoNx.9213:

edamber.1549:

- Backstab damage reduced by 50%
- Mug removed and swapped with a simple “gain 1 boon on steal”
- Cloak and dagger no longer stealth you and damage reduce 50%

- Backstab damage reduced by 50%
- Mug removed and swapped with a simple “gain 1 boon on steal”
- Cloak and dagger no longer stealth you and damage reduce 50%

/quote]

50% means half by the way. And Backstab does, not always crit for 14k. Probably can’t even crit for 14k with the Assassin’s Signet change. the most common is 11k -12k on another theif doing the same build or an ele or a very squishy necro or warrior. That damage cut in half. Do the math buddy. C&D crits for like 5-7 on a squish warrior necro. Mug Doesn’t need to be removed, the thing that increases it to 1,200 range needs to be.

There is a trait in the Trickery tree, that makes it a 1,200 range and makes it far hard to notice the thief is blowing all his CDs.

Pro Tip: Utilities are not on the same GCD with your main abilities GCD and already C&D is not a the same GCD with steal.

Backstabs usually crit around 6-8k on ppl with full exotic. I hit an upscaled toon today for 10.4 K that’s my record hit since patch, he might have been a lvl 30 or something who knows.

Hell they might even nerf it further, might even remove backstab. All I know is that they listen 100% to the QQers. Noone is talking about mesmers doing backstab damage with every hit from an illusion.

I agree some classes need buffs, mostly ele’s, rangers and necros though. Warriors, Guardians and mesmers are alot stronger than thiefs.

edamber.1549:

EoNxBoNx.9213:

edamber.1549:

- Backstab damage reduced by 50%
- Mug removed and swapped with a simple “gain 1 boon on steal”
- Cloak and dagger no longer stealth you and damage reduce 50%

- Backstab damage reduced by 50%
- Mug removed and swapped with a simple “gain 1 boon on steal”
- Cloak and dagger no longer stealth you and damage reduce 50%

/quote]

50% means half by the way. And Backstab does, not always crit for 14k. Probably can’t even crit for 14k with the Assassin’s Signet change. the most common is 11k -12k on another theif doing the same build or an ele or a very squishy necro or warrior. That damage cut in half. Do the math buddy. C&D crits for like 5-7 on a squish warrior necro. Mug Doesn’t need to be removed, the thing that increases it to 1,200 range needs to be.

There is a trait in the Trickery tree, that makes it a 1,200 range and makes it far hard to notice the thief is blowing all his CDs.

Pro Tip: Utilities are not on the same GCD with your main abilities GCD and already C&D is not a the same GCD with steal.

Backstabs usually crit around 6-8k on ppl with full exotic. I hit an upscaled toon today for 10.4 K that’s my record hit since patch, he might have been a lvl 30 or something who knows.

Hell they might even nerf it further, might even remove backstab. All I know is that they listen 100% to the QQers. Noone is talking about mesmers doing backstab damage with every hit from an illusion.

I agree some classes need buffs, mostly ele’s, rangers and necros though. Warriors, Guardians and mesmers are alot stronger than thiefs.

WvW Forums are that way —>

EoNxBoNx.9213:

edamber.1549:

EoNxBoNx.9213:

edamber.1549:

- Backstab damage reduced by 50%
- Mug removed and swapped with a simple “gain 1 boon on steal”
- Cloak and dagger no longer stealth you and damage reduce 50%

- Backstab damage reduced by 50%
- Mug removed and swapped with a simple “gain 1 boon on steal”
- Cloak and dagger no longer stealth you and damage reduce 50%

/quote]

50% means half by the way. And Backstab does, not always crit for 14k. Probably can’t even crit for 14k with the Assassin’s Signet change. the most common is 11k -12k on another theif doing the same build or an ele or a very squishy necro or warrior. That damage cut in half. Do the math buddy. C&D crits for like 5-7 on a squish warrior necro. Mug Doesn’t need to be removed, the thing that increases it to 1,200 range needs to be.

There is a trait in the Trickery tree, that makes it a 1,200 range and makes it far hard to notice the thief is blowing all his CDs.

Pro Tip: Utilities are not on the same GCD with your main abilities GCD and already C&D is not a the same GCD with steal.

Backstabs usually crit around 6-8k on ppl with full exotic. I hit an upscaled toon today for 10.4 K that’s my record hit since patch, he might have been a lvl 30 or something who knows.

Hell they might even nerf it further, might even remove backstab. All I know is that they listen 100% to the QQers. Noone is talking about mesmers doing backstab damage with every hit from an illusion.

I agree some classes need buffs, mostly ele’s, rangers and necros though. Warriors, Guardians and mesmers are alot stronger than thiefs.

WvW Forums are that way —>

Whatever, thiefs were never OP in either sPVP or WvWvW. It has always been a L2P issue.

Thieves dont have CDs on weapon skills, they use a resource system. Every other profession has CDs, yet the thief seems to have a far superior system for damage as they can spam bit hitters that home in on the target and do good damage. Far too good.

I like how a 6k hit is normal for the OP, if I want that on my ele or engie, I have to do some serious combo set ups and to be frank, I would never get anything close to that on my engie in a single hit.

Even the OP knows his class is borked up and WAY overpowered, yet all thieves try to explain it away from the fact they have highly spammable attacks that also happen to be good gap closers and also happen to be some of the hardest hitting attacks in the game.

Yeah, its deffo mug thats the problem, nerf mug and everything will be A-OK……..

C’mon guys it’s a thief you’re not support to see them coming. I personally hate playing against thieves but they do make tiptoe around WvW for sure which makes the game more exiting in my opinion.

What I see as the issues with thief is:

1. Basilisk doesnt count as stun/condition. I think in all the fairness it should be a stun so traits like when you get disabled u blabla depending on the class work against thieves aswell.

2. If you stun break out of basilisk the stupid kitten effect still remains so you can’t evade(even though u can move). It should clear the effect aswell.

3. I don’t kinda agree with being able to close huge gap with shadowstep followed up with other insta gap closer. Followed up with insta death during basilisk. I feel u should be able to react to it like bull charge or illusionary leap. Yeah u can spam evades before that but yeah it still doesn’t feel right how it should be. “OMG ITS THIEF WITH BASILISK EVERYONE SPAM EVADE TILL UR OUT OF ENERGY”

Something has to happen to thieves. Why would u run bursty warrior instead of bursty thief.

1. Thief burst is better and is HARDER TO EVADE
2. Thief mobility is better
3. Thief can disengage better

All warrior does better is cleave people when they stand on top of each other and thief can even do decent job on that one. Even when we dont think about conditions wrecking warriors.

Good warrior is still great when team is build around it but I think thief is alot better when choosing a class for bursty role.

This is the current problem of the game. Why choose something else to hold the close point for example when mesmer has portal and awesome team supporting utilities/ulties and is awesome anyway. Same with guardians.

Bring thieves to warrior level and remove portal so we have options to have other close point defenders or give portal to every class!

Why do people complain about backstab when Killshot can hit you for over 10,000 damage?

ComeAndSee.1356:

Why do people complain about backstab when Killshot can hit you for over 10,000 damage?

Don’t quote me for truth, since Warrior (as of yet) is the one Profession I lack.
But – iirc – folk leave Killshot alone, because it has a pretty wicked cast time and c/d.

Lord Eldamari.8490:

C’mon guys it’s a thief you’re not support to see them coming. I personally hate playing against thieves but they do make tiptoe around WvW for sure which makes the game more exiting in my opinion.

I think this was sPvP forums.. I dont mind in PvE being legendary waving super rogue comming from stealth every 2 minute one shotting someone and going back to shadows but thats not something I like to see in sPvP!

ComeAndSee.1356:

Why do people complain about backstab when Killshot can hit you for over 10,000 damage?

Ok… Make a warrior join a hotjoin game. Go shoot someone with killshot and tell me how it went. Oh wait u probably DIED loading ur killshot by a bunker guardian and even tho u would had pulled it off nobody would died. This isn’t WvW forums were u load killshots with full uber epix legendaries into 2lvl players who got lost into wvw.

P.S Ur kitten if u can’t count 1 2 3 and press evade

Advent.6193:

ComeAndSee.1356:

Why do people complain about backstab when Killshot can hit you for over 10,000 damage?

Don’t quote me for truth, since Warrior (as of yet) is the one Profession I lack.
But – iirc – folk leave Killshot alone, because it has a pretty wicked cast time and c/d.

If backstab is “easy” to avoid, like many thieves claim it is, than Killshot is the equivilent of a semi truck rolling towards you at 5mph, from 50 feet away. Blowing its horn the whole time. Oh did i mention the semi truck is covered in neon lights with Hulk Hogan dancing naked on top?

Lord Eldamari.8490:

C’mon guys it’s a thief you’re not support to see them coming. I personally hate playing against thieves but they do make tiptoe around WvW for sure which makes the game more exiting in my opinion.

Its exiting for you, but not for everyone else. I dont see how having an insta-kill class adds any excitement to the game. By that logic lets make Guardians immortal, and lets make necromancers rez themselves in 0.5 seconds, they are dead afterall, and lets make mesmers clones just as strong as the caster, that should add even more excitement!

No, it doesnt work that way.

YojimboJones.6243:

Advent.6193:

ComeAndSee.1356:

Why do people complain about backstab when Killshot can hit you for over 10,000 damage?

Don’t quote me for truth, since Warrior (as of yet) is the one Profession I lack.
But – iirc – folk leave Killshot alone, because it has a pretty wicked cast time and c/d.

If backstab is “easy” to avoid, like many thieves claim it is, than Killshot is the equivilent of a semi truck rolling towards you at 5mph, from 50 feet away. Blowing its horn the whole time. Oh did i mention the semi truck is covered in neon lights with Hulk Hogan dancing naked on top?

I have clips of me in WvW with about 20 enemy players 20 feet ahead and out of the blue I’m hit for 10k and 8k shots (two separate occasions). I’m sorry, but I can’t see a semi-truck next to 19 other ones all bunched up who are honking and throwing kitten out of the window at you.

I have a Thief (and Guardian) and having to chase everyone around in order to get behind them and backstab is annoying. What I learned is just to put my back against the wall or always spin my character around.

Killshot has a 1,500 range. Backstab is 130.

I agree with you that Backstab isn’t the biggest problem. However, I presume that the precast of Cloak and Dagger is intended.

You also forgot to mention Heartseeker spam after all that combo. It usually makes 2000 – 6000 damage each time. That is a real problem too.

About nerfing Mug, I would probably change its calculation, decreasing the importance of Power in its equation. It would still be useful for some builds, but would not hit that hard for any of them, including glass canon. 1000 – 3000 are good numbers for it.

ComeAndSee.1356:

Why do people complain about backstab when Killshot can hit you for over 10,000 damage?

Have you ever played warrior?

First of all, the rifle spec is woefully underpowered in tPvP. Second, good luck landing a killshot. You literally have a 20% success rate with that thing, and half the time it doesn’t even crit. You can block it, dodge it, interrupt, and walk out of it’s range. Not to mention that the massive 10k crits only come from pure glass cannon warriors (berserker’s amulet/jewel).

ComeAndSee.1356:

YojimboJones.6243:

Advent.6193:

ComeAndSee.1356:

Why do people complain about backstab when Killshot can hit you for over 10,000 damage?

Don’t quote me for truth, since Warrior (as of yet) is the one Profession I lack.
But – iirc – folk leave Killshot alone, because it has a pretty wicked cast time and c/d.

If backstab is “easy” to avoid, like many thieves claim it is, than Killshot is the equivilent of a semi truck rolling towards you at 5mph, from 50 feet away. Blowing its horn the whole time. Oh did i mention the semi truck is covered in neon lights with Hulk Hogan dancing naked on top?

I have clips of me in WvW with about 20 enemy players 20 feet ahead and out of the blue I’m hit for 10k and 8k shots (two separate occasions). I’m sorry, but I can’t see a semi-truck next to 19 other ones all bunched up who are honking and throwing kitten out of the window at you.

I have a Thief (and Guardian) and having to chase everyone around in order to get behind them and backstab is annoying. What I learned is just to put my back against the wall or always spin my character around.

Killshot has a 1,500 range. Backstab is 130.

WvW =/= tPvP

Xaximbo.2763:

Or we can nerf bot the core and the symtoms everything feels weird. 90% of the thieves are runing this. Thing is that is extremely easy to counter what sucks is that thieves can restealth everytime they want it seems so many ways to stealth and gain initiative, then when you are around 50% hp is simply a heartseeker fest.

I am playing a condition thief which is funny and effective i hope this “i only need 2 fingers to play” build gets so nerfed that becomes unplayable with this purpose and people start being creative.

i play condi thief and honestly I don’t mind it
yeah its really simple but i don’t think that’s a strong enough reason to warrant a nerf
i think they should look at the builds thief currently has, then keep them viable, then see about buffing other potential builds thief can play so that the variety in what people can play adds up.

ComeAndSee.1356:

Why do people complain about backstab when Killshot can hit you for over 10,000 damage?

let me know when the warrior can do it from stealth and then we can talk

Oldgrimm.8521:

yeah backstab is not the main culprit,

it is MUG + cnd

no trait shoul do 6k damage in itself, maybe we could petition to change mug to deal bleeding instead of direct damage,

and or CnD should act as a preparatory skill like black powder of offhand pistol(meaning less damage) instant cast, low damage

I like the steal bleeding idea. 5 stacks of bleed that’s duration and damage is relative to the player’s condition traits.

As for your CnD suggestion, as long as they don’t change the main design of CnD(stealth), I would not mind.

Personally, I don’t have a problem with backstab thieves at all, especially in spvp. I don’t want a nerf, but I would love to see some variety instead of “combo-2222222”. Remember folks you don’t need a nerf to mix in some variety

YojimboJones.6243:

Advent.6193:

ComeAndSee.1356:

Why do people complain about backstab when Killshot can hit you for over 10,000 damage?

Don’t quote me for truth, since Warrior (as of yet) is the one Profession I lack.
But – iirc – folk leave Killshot alone, because it has a pretty wicked cast time and c/d.

If backstab is “easy” to avoid, like many thieves claim it is, than Killshot is the equivilent of a semi truck rolling towards you at 5mph, from 50 feet away. Blowing its horn the whole time. Oh did i mention the semi truck is covered in neon lights with Hulk Hogan dancing naked on top?

This just made my day! Awesome post!

But honestly you (not refering to Yoji here!) really cannot compare the Thief burst with any other burst in the game. Why? Because in sPvP (or even tPvP to be more concrete) NOT WvWvW you can always see what’s coming. Except for a thief.

Tbh I don’t die to a thief with mostly any class in a 1v1 because I can focus on him und can count his stealth time.
But having for example a 1v1 on a node – you are about to win that thing and tell your mates to stay away because the node is safe and suddenly it goes BOOM is just not good for PvP (in case you missed it – the thief came in stealth on the node and instakilled me).
Every other class I can see and call so my mates help me.

For Thief it should be either high damage or being tricky and stealth.

In addition to that the thief will take out his longbow after he killed me and jump to mid-node to be in that fight literally 5 seconds later.

I vote for either:
dmg thief
stealth thief (maybe with good mobility) and decent dmg but not 10k combo

Where is this fear of a BS nerf coming from? I think Anet knows it’s not a problem for seasoned players. I personally wouldn’t care of they nerfed Mug but if they screw with backstab it breaks the non glass builds with a dagger main or on swap.

Chi Malady.2015:

ComeAndSee.1356:

Why do people complain about backstab when Killshot can hit you for over 10,000 damage?

Have you ever played warrior?

First of all, the rifle spec is woefully underpowered in tPvP. Second, good luck landing a killshot. You literally have a 20% success rate with that thing, and half the time it doesn’t even crit. You can block it, dodge it, interrupt, and walk out of it’s range. Not to mention that the massive 10k crits only come from pure glass cannon warriors (berserker’s amulet/jewel).

Heh I didn’t even know this ability existed until last night when I got hit by a 13k kill shot, and the only reason i got hit by it was because i was fighting another guy and didn’t noticed the warrior hiding.

Hello,

There is already a dedicated thread about the thief here : The thief and its gameplay – Your feedback

Therefore this one is now closed to avoid duplicates. Thank you for your understanding.