Guild Wars 2

I just came here to clarify one thing and it’s a post from the other thread that got closed. I’m a noob so I dunno how to quote someone from another thread so I’m just copy pasting it.

“Games going to Timer – Because there’s three decaps almost all the time, it’s boring to play and watch. I vastly prefer the super active fights where doing something wrong can spell death, not a slight loss in health. I want people to be making PLAYS, not just trying to stall the game/fights.”

This couldn’t be farther from the truth. I honestly can’t remember the last game on NA, the home of celestial, went to timer. This is EU, aka berserker thief/mesmer meta with 3 bunkers, causing the games to go to time out. Not claiming either is a better style of play just clarifying some misinformation.

Celestial isn’t about bunkering, it’s about high damage everywhere. There are more deaths in this celestial meta than at any point in this games life span.

How can anyone believe that the problem is the Celestial Amulet??!

Can you please compare the healing elementalist and engineers have compared to other classes? That fact of the matter is that they have good damage and still sustain themselves VERY well.

Necromancer blood magic is overpowered.

How is ele traited for good damage?

SobeSoul.6910:

How is ele traited for good damage?

All comps historically have had 2-3 people who stand on point for their team. In the past these were fully dedicated bunkers, like bunker guard, beastmaster ranger, or cantrips ele. These builds also took lots of rez utility making kills on each teams dps much rarer because of how many rezes you can get off. These days it’s just 2 cele bunkers on each NA team and EU is catching on to that style of only 2 bunkers.

In the cele meta things that stand on node actually do damage and this quickens the pace of the game by a lot.

The main difference is that when you take these dedicated bunkers its often not a bad idea to take 3 and let your thief/mesmer roam and do all the work. We’ve seen this on EU quite a lot and that is the source of the slow paced games that all time out, not the cele meta. The cele meta encourages the complete opposite.

I’ll say it now though. I personally like their being more damage in the game. Does it restrict what people used to play out of the meta like bunker guard mesmer etc? Yes. Is it too powerful? Yes. But it’s certainly not all bad and it’s something that should be worked around and not deleted.

Cele does need nerfed. The other classes/specs can be brought back. Regardless of how much cele has restricted out of the game, this is still some of the more diverse guildwars we have seen compared to the past although as of the last few weeks we’ve seen more and more of it.

I don’t necessarily agree that celes is the issue but more the classes that use them and what other classes lack. Necros need some actual sustain, a staring amount if life force for instance. Passives need to be toned down as well as certain runes and sigils.
Overall we need a balance patch, we are between WTS tournaments so now is the perfect time. Eles are the prime subject of changes, yes they were the bottom of the totem pole not long ago but bc of the minor buffs they did over time leading to the sustain nerf removal in water along with signet un nerf along with new runes and buffs to celestial just pushed it over the top. Like a blaringly obviously think is how long the burning lasts and how they are the only class that didn’t get changes to their vigor uptime. This just needs to be looked at.

Phantaram.4816:

SobeSoul.6910:

How is ele traited for good damage?

All comps historically have had 2-3 people who stand on point for their team. In the past these were fully dedicated bunkers, like bunker guard, beastmaster ranger, or cantrips ele. These builds also took lots of rez utility making kills on each teams dps much rarer because of how many rezes you can get off. These days it’s just 2 cele bunkers on each NA team and EU is catching on to that style of only 2 bunkers.

In the cele meta things that stand on node actually do damage and this quickens the pace of the game by a lot.

The main difference is that when you take these dedicated bunkers its often not a bad idea to take 3 and let your thief/mesmer roam and do all the work. We’ve seen this on EU quite a lot and that is the source of the slow paced games that all time out, not the cele meta. The cele meta encourages the complete opposite.

I’ll say it now though. I personally like their being more damage in the game. Does it restrict what people used to play out of the meta like bunker guard mesmer etc? Yes. Is it too powerful? Yes. But it’s certainly not all bad and it’s something that should be worked around and not deleted.

Cele does need nerfed. The other classes/specs can be brought back. Regardless of how much cele has restricted out of the game, this is still some of the more diverse guildwars we have seen compared to the past although as of the last few weeks we’ve seen more and more of it.

That doesn’t answer my question lol

Who on earth thinks that 00266 is traited for damage?

Which I think the guy later edited the sentence out of his comment that spawned me asking that. lol.

Celestial isn’t about bunkering, it’s about high damage everywhere. There are more deaths in this celestial meta than at any point in this games life span.[/quote]

Interesting.

Cele does need nerfed. The other classes/specs can be brought back.
[/quote]

Fo Sho’. I just want my ranger to be a viable side point defender again XD

IMO they shouldn’t nerf cele, but instead limit the amount of cele,soldier, settler’s and other tanky amulets in a team to 2. So each team could only have 2 tanky players, which would result in a more fast-paced, and skillful gameplay. This would apply only to tournaments. But I would be happy to see something like this in ranked que too.

That is so true that you can facetank damage with celes. When i play on my zerk thief and a power ranger hits me with maul i lose half my health, when I play on cele ele I facetank it, laugh at them and heal it back in a second. On cele you just randomly dodge in water attun to get the heal, not when an attack comes in.

Kicker.8203:

IMO they shouldn’t nerf cele, but instead limit the amount of cele,soldier, settler’s and other tanky amulets in a team to 2. So each team could only have 2 tanky players, which would result in a more fast-paced, and skillful gameplay.
That is so true that you can facetank damage with celes. When i play on my zerk thief and a power ranger hits me with maul i lose half my health, when I play on cele ele I facetank it, laugh at them and heal it back in a second. On cele you just randomly dodge in water attun to get the heal, not when an attack comes in.

Yes, zerker Thieves are very squishy while cele eles are less so, we all know that. What if I join a queue as a tankier profession such as a Guardian and there are other guards on my team? I will be forced to play a different amulet and may not be as valuable to my team. I can take a non-tanky amulet (say Valkyrie) with defensive traits and still make my build tanky.

Phantaram.4816:

SobeSoul.6910:

How is ele traited for good damage?

All comps historically have had 2-3 people who stand on point for their team. In the past these were fully dedicated bunkers, like bunker guard, beastmaster ranger, or cantrips ele. These builds also took lots of rez utility making kills on each teams dps much rarer because of how many rezes you can get off. These days it’s just 2 cele bunkers on each NA team and EU is catching on to that style of only 2 bunkers.

In the cele meta things that stand on node actually do damage and this quickens the pace of the game by a lot.

The main difference is that when you take these dedicated bunkers its often not a bad idea to take 3 and let your thief/mesmer roam and do all the work. We’ve seen this on EU quite a lot and that is the source of the slow paced games that all time out, not the cele meta. The cele meta encourages the complete opposite.

I’ll say it now though. I personally like their being more damage in the game. Does it restrict what people used to play out of the meta like bunker guard mesmer etc? Yes. Is it too powerful? Yes. But it’s certainly not all bad and it’s something that should be worked around and not deleted.

Cele does need nerfed. The other classes/specs can be brought back. Regardless of how much cele has restricted out of the game, this is still some of the more diverse guildwars we have seen compared to the past although as of the last few weeks we’ve seen more and more of it.

What’s so “different” about stacking “X ellies”+ “X engies” with a thief ?

Cuz you know, it’s 80% of comps right now.

U can also do

2 eles-1 engi-1 nec-1 thief
2 eles-2 engi-1 thief
3 eles-2 engies
3 engis-2 eles
2 eles-1 engi-1 war-1 whatever

basically 2x ele, 1-2 x engies, rest is your choice doesn’t really matter, you could go moar engies-eles and wouldn’t even notice.

You knew in the past how important ( for example) blasting a water field was. Now with ele-engies comp there’s so much healing flying around that i literally have NEVER seen ( in all esl games) people blasting engies water fields to heal.

Cuz it doesn’t matter, there’s so much healing you don’ need more if it’s too risky.

Coordination is at historical min in Gw2 and it’s all thx to self reliant classes on celestial.

The game has gone downhill since warrior buffs: after that it was just a power creep race to make all meta builds indipendent from each other.

Boring.

I’m of the opposite opinion. I use Cele with a staff ele, and I don’t find it overpowered at all (I’m also using my own build, which is almost guaranteed to not be that good). I’ll almost always die (at least 75% of the time). I think the problem isn’t more with cele stats, its the class/builds/skills that are overpowered. Those need to be balanced/nerfed, not the cele amulet.

(PS: Ele Staff needs some buffs )

I always thought the berserker button mash took less skill, personally. It was always just memorize the combination of your highest damaging skills, press them as fast as you can, and if the person you targetted is still alive, run away and wait for your skills to recharge. That’s how it still is, actually. Then again, I’ve never been a fan of the ‘first to hit wins’ or ‘ending a fight before it starts’ meta. I kind of like that fights go in both directions now, instead of just watching everyone die in 3 seconds lol.

Granted, I do think that rune of strength could be toned down so that the tanky builds can’t be so offensive at the same time. Celestial amulet is just another tanking amulet without it, for the most part, and was always regarded as a worthless amulet until the new runes and sigils came out to support it.

Elitist.8701:

Phaeton.9582:

Even talking about cele is boring

The talk about nerfing cele has been going on for months now. Devs, its not hard to shave a few percentages off cele and make small balance changes. Your not going to become esports by throwing money at literally nothing. Fix your game instead of giving the same players thousands of dollars every month.

Also bring back SoloQ.

-Teef Teef Teef Teef

It kind of is hard to shave anything down, if you feel the excuses that folks are posting to replace actual fact, do not justify it. As they have stated already, they are working to determine if the problem is better tended to with specific trait or rune/sigil adjustments then simply changing an amulet. Particularly when it is a poster who demands SoloQ to play in, who is using high end tPvP as his example.

By the way, I am curious. What players are they giving money to every month? It is hard for anyone, including the devs to take you seriously, if your going to disingenuously claim it wasn’t earned.

Mrbig.8019:

Coordination is at historical min in Gw2 and it’s all thx to self reliant classes on celestial.

i wouldnt say this is a celestial problem but a game design problem overall.

also, too much nerf is bad for a game, balance the buff and nerf. maybe instead of nerfing cele they could buff some of the other amulets.
i would be a much bigger fan of more builds being viable. each class should have at minimum 3-4 builds that make it strong in pvp. right now to be “good” in pvp you have to pick from 1 maybe 2 builds for your class and learn to play it. and some classes are so pathetic that even with the best build they are still not good.
its also kittened up that LoL is more entertaining to watch than GW2. theres only 4 skills, always the same map, always the same strategy, and yet has so much more variety to it than GW2 with more than twice the skills, more map variety, and more map rotation.

oneply.9586:

also, too much nerf is bad for a game, balance the buff and nerf. maybe instead of nerfing cele they could buff some of the other amulets.

That’s called power creep and has happened way too much in this game already!

Wahoo! Bye frands!

That’s not what power creep is.

800 more stats than the typical amulet is really gear advantage when you think about it.
Specially when your class synergizes with it too much, it’s just so much crap you have to deal with.

They really need to shave the defense portion of the amulet so that this damage meta can actually work and maybe bring back some zerk/assassin builds.

Cause for a damage type of meta, class, or playstyle, celestial has way too much defense that it overlaps zerk and assassins and maybe even soldiers.

All the devs main engi so don’t expect nerfs anytime soon.

As for celestial, personally I find staff ele the worse. Do a basic rotation on a point irrespective of what the opponent is doing. Spam dodges in between that rotation. And you can survive for ages which denying the point to anyone hoping to live. That spec is literally possible for a beginner at a very high level. You could easily set up a macro to play the whole class for you. Is that allowed? If so I will try to do it and record the results. Not that that will get nerfed, I have a feeling the devs also like ele seen as that has been the best class for about 1.5 yrs out of the games 2.5 yr life span.

Amir.1570:

800 more stats than the typical amulet is really gear advantage when you think about it.
Specially when your class synergizes with it too much, it’s just so much crap you have to deal with.

They really need to shave the defense portion of the amulet so that this damage meta can actually work and maybe bring back some zerk/assassin builds.

Cause for a damage type of meta, class, or playstyle, celestial has way too much defense that it overlaps zerk and assassins and maybe even soldiers.

I agree, it is something like 20% more stats. Ele and engi can use ALL of the stats. Thus they essentially just have better gear than you. I think it is better to just play WoW as at least the gear grind can be maxed out by all classes there.

Rickster.8752:

I think it is better to just play WoW as at least the gear grind can be maxed out by all classes there.

Go play it then?

//

Everything is working as intended. There are no bugs.
No one is immortal in spvp.
Whining and complaining won’t improve your ability to play in PvP arenas.

actually i hate when people say “engis’ can be beat by a good necro pff”.

This places necro into one role and one role only.. condition spam.

And even in that statement you need a good condition necro to beat a mediocre player w/ cele build.

This is just not cool. I fought an ele just recently who just did not die, kept 90% health or more and just depleted my health like it was nothing. Yeah, my first mistake was running a power build, the other was actually just fighting the ele.

Why? How? How is this like… okay? I just don’t get it. I boggles my mind how this is actually seen as competitive. The leaderboards are all filled with cele abusers who will come on forums and defend the thing so strongly.

But then i just play some leagues lol.

coglin.1867:

Elitist.8701:

Phaeton.9582:

Even talking about cele is boring

The talk about nerfing cele has been going on for months now. Devs, its not hard to shave a few percentages off cele and make small balance changes. Your not going to become esports by throwing money at literally nothing. Fix your game instead of giving the same players thousands of dollars every month.

Also bring back SoloQ.

-Teef Teef Teef Teef

It kind of is hard to shave anything down, if you feel the excuses that folks are posting to replace actual fact, do not justify it. As they have stated already, they are working to determine if the problem is better tended to with specific trait or rune/sigil adjustments then simply changing an amulet. Particularly when it is a poster who demands SoloQ to play in, who is using high end tPvP as his example.

By the way, I am curious. What players are they giving money to every month? It is hard for anyone, including the devs to take you seriously, if your going to disingenuously claim it wasn’t earned.

I don’t think any player worth his or her salt would argue that shaving celestial stats by 50 is, frankly, an obvious fix.

But sadly, like healing signet, it has to be like this for a year before they will do it.

I just figured out a counter build on guard, which is cool! Had to endure months of unviable zerk to come up with it though XD

Need to test it more though, I’d hate to cry nerf then introduce a stronger build into the meta…

Phaeton.9582:

Need to test it more though, I’d hate to cry nerf then introduce a stronger build into the meta…

Buck the meta with P/D zerk thiefage! Or not.

Celestial, Fire+Air(+ Blood), Geo+Doom get nerf’d and I think we’d be in a decent place.

Coulter.2315:

Celestial, Fire+Air(Blood), GeoDoom get nerf’d and I think we’d be in a decent place.

Blood for the Blood God, Skulls for the Skull Throne?

WyldKat.4712:

Coulter.2315:

Celestial, Fire+Air(Blood), GeoDoom get nerf’d and I think we’d be in a decent place.

Blood for the Blood God, Skulls for the Skull Throne?

Haha fixed it, Lyssa and Tzeentch be with us all this Christmas.

WyldKat.4712:

Phaeton.9582:

Need to test it more though, I’d hate to cry nerf then introduce a stronger build into the meta…

Buck the meta with P/D zerk thiefage! Or not.

We have esports now, can’t pay my rent with that.

to me fighting d/d ele is like fighting a warrior. they have a lot of sustain over time so it takes a coordinated burst to get them down as fast as possible is the best way otherwise they will always be able to ecsape and they will be healed by the time they reach whatever fight they rotate to.

keeping the ele pressured out of the point prevents them from stacking too much might which means on a cele amulet they are not super dangerous.

also boon stripping isn’t being used often enough in this meta as it probably should be.

Solstice.1097:

to me fighting d/d ele is like fighting a warrior. they have a lot of sustain over time so it takes a coordinated burst to get them down as fast as possible is the best way otherwise they will always be able to ecsape and they will be healed by the time they reach whatever fight they rotate to.

keeping the ele pressured out of the point prevents them from stacking too much might which means on a cele amulet they are not super dangerous.

also boon stripping isn’t being used often enough in this meta as it probably should be.

boon stripping isn’t viable. its as simple as that. merry christmas

The problem with cele ele isn’kittens survivability, pretty much every trait is set for defense, but overtime they dish out way too much dmg due to mightstacks. Plus Ele synergizes so well with cele. Some crit chance for vigor, cond dmg for burning (and sigill conds), some hp and tougness for the poor hp pool and armor… Same goes for engis except for the defensive traits, nades synergizes very well both with power and conds, toolkit block and cc save them to the next heal-cd.

Btw. remove intell-sigill, that alone brings engi back in line, and no more 4-5k stuns from soldier warrs…

TL;DR lower mightstacking, remove intell-sigill and remove steal cd reduction of SoH (every1 knows steal is broken atm)

TheDevice.2751:

Solstice.1097:

to me fighting d/d ele is like fighting a warrior. they have a lot of sustain over time so it takes a coordinated burst to get them down as fast as possible is the best way otherwise they will always be able to ecsape and they will be healed by the time they reach whatever fight they rotate to.

keeping the ele pressured out of the point prevents them from stacking too much might which means on a cele amulet they are not super dangerous.

also boon stripping isn’t being used often enough in this meta as it probably should be.

boon stripping isn’t viable. its as simple as that. merry christmas

It’s viable, land the boon strips and your transfers.

I mean, if celestial is such a positive amulet because it grants people both forms of damage, why aren’t people using Carrion then?

If Might stacking is a problem, why are people not using it with Carrion then?

Oh right, because the defense portion of celestial makes it forgiving. Specially when you can make use of ALL the defense stats. The gear difference within celestial is just insufferable, there really is no point in defending it.

Oh and if it ever goes back to the rabid meta for Engi, then at least condi cleanse will definitely help a lot more vs. them compared to having both power and condi making condi cleanse a soft counter instead of a hard counter without getting rid of Engi kill potential.

NeXeD.3042:

TheDevice.2751:

Solstice.1097:

to me fighting d/d ele is like fighting a warrior. they have a lot of sustain over time so it takes a coordinated burst to get them down as fast as possible is the best way otherwise they will always be able to ecsape and they will be healed by the time they reach whatever fight they rotate to.

keeping the ele pressured out of the point prevents them from stacking too much might which means on a cele amulet they are not super dangerous.

also boon stripping isn’t being used often enough in this meta as it probably should be.

boon stripping isn’t viable. its as simple as that. merry christmas

It’s viable, land the boon strips and your transfers.

Null Field and Corrupt Boon are viable, as is Path of Corruption. Not much else is due to either being single boon removal (frequently getting Swiftness instead of something useful), or being easily avoided (Spinal Shivers with its monstrous cast time, Well of Corruption where it can be avoided by walking).

Null Field is just as avoidable as Well of Corruption, but it doubles as AoE condi removal, so it remains viable to use.

Even so, 40 second cooldowns are not enough boonstripping to manage the spam. Especially since the meta is very hostile to Necros and Mesmers alike right now for other reasons. They’re desired, sure, but they have a rough time competing.

Necros are desired because they do have the most viable boon removal, but their requirements of being babysat (still extremely susceptible to CC) are still there since launch. How many teams can devote two players to boonstrip, especially when only one actually has the ability?

Amir.1570:

Oh right, because the defense portion of celestial makes it forgiving. Specially when you can make use of ALL the defense stats. The gear difference within celestial is just insufferable, there really is no point in defending it.

Why do you think Celestial amulet was put in the game? For people to use it and not benefit on that stats it has? lol

It’s one thing to argue that maybe the stats are to high right now on the amulet, it’s another thing to QQ about defense stats just because.

SobeSoul.6910:

Amir.1570:

Oh right, because the defense portion of celestial makes it forgiving. Specially when you can make use of ALL the defense stats. The gear difference within celestial is just insufferable, there really is no point in defending it.

Why do you think Celestial amulet was put in the game? For people to use it and not benefit on that stats it has? lol

It’s one thing to argue that maybe the stats are to high right now on the amulet, it’s another thing to QQ about defense stats just because.

I suppose you don’t understand what I’m trying to say. I never said celestial should never be in the game, all I said was celestial shouldn’t be 800 more stats than the typical amulet because people are getting sick of bunker fights and that there is more than one way to nerf Celestial so that it will still be a viable amulet that this damage meta is going to work.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

NeXeD.3042:

TheDevice.2751:

Solstice.1097:

to me fighting d/d ele is like fighting a warrior. they have a lot of sustain over time so it takes a coordinated burst to get them down as fast as possible is the best way otherwise they will always be able to ecsape and they will be healed by the time they reach whatever fight they rotate to.

keeping the ele pressured out of the point prevents them from stacking too much might which means on a cele amulet they are not super dangerous.

also boon stripping isn’t being used often enough in this meta as it probably should be.

boon stripping isn’t viable. its as simple as that. merry christmas

It’s viable, land the boon strips and your transfers.

Null Field and Corrupt Boon are viable, as is Path of Corruption. Not much else is due to either being single boon removal (frequently getting Swiftness instead of something useful), or being easily avoided (Spinal Shivers with its monstrous cast time, Well of Corruption where it can be avoided by walking).

Null Field is just as avoidable as Well of Corruption, but it doubles as AoE condi removal, so it remains viable to use.

Even so, 40 second cooldowns are not enough boonstripping to manage the spam. Especially since the meta is very hostile to Necros and Mesmers alike right now for other reasons. They’re desired, sure, but they have a rough time competing.

Necros are desired because they do have the most viable boon removal, but their requirements of being babysat (still extremely susceptible to CC) are still there since launch. How many teams can devote two players to boonstrip, especially when only one actually has the ability?

The ones that want to beat the celestial classes will do it if they are smart.

NeXeD.3042:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

NeXeD.3042:

TheDevice.2751:

Solstice.1097:

to me fighting d/d ele is like fighting a warrior. they have a lot of sustain over time so it takes a coordinated burst to get them down as fast as possible is the best way otherwise they will always be able to ecsape and they will be healed by the time they reach whatever fight they rotate to.

keeping the ele pressured out of the point prevents them from stacking too much might which means on a cele amulet they are not super dangerous.

also boon stripping isn’t being used often enough in this meta as it probably should be.

boon stripping isn’t viable. its as simple as that. merry christmas

It’s viable, land the boon strips and your transfers.

Null Field and Corrupt Boon are viable, as is Path of Corruption. Not much else is due to either being single boon removal (frequently getting Swiftness instead of something useful), or being easily avoided (Spinal Shivers with its monstrous cast time, Well of Corruption where it can be avoided by walking).

Null Field is just as avoidable as Well of Corruption, but it doubles as AoE condi removal, so it remains viable to use.

Even so, 40 second cooldowns are not enough boonstripping to manage the spam. Especially since the meta is very hostile to Necros and Mesmers alike right now for other reasons. They’re desired, sure, but they have a rough time competing.

Necros are desired because they do have the most viable boon removal, but their requirements of being babysat (still extremely susceptible to CC) are still there since launch. How many teams can devote two players to boonstrip, especially when only one actually has the ability?

The ones that want to beat the celestial classes will do it if they are smart.

Or they can have just as great a chance of success by using the celestial meta themselves.

Classes that focus on direct or condi can put all their Stat points on their attacks celestial works well because it works against the rock paper scissors approach of does my build beat theirs or vice versa. Where’s the skill in that? By bringing a good range of damage you can shift your play to your opponents weaknesses.. use strategy.. get better. There is very little skill in slamming one burst without mistake or successfully timing 1 dodge… and running around waiting for a 4 second fight is fun for no one. Toughness is great but has diminishing returns which is hilarious considering two classes start with massive toughness bonuses and same for health bonuses… a fight with a dd ele isn’t very intimidating if you can knock off their might stacking/boons.. the lightening whip cancel exploit will most likely get fixed bringing down the healing. I don’t see the game going esport as long as its conquest based or the new 5v5 zerging explosion. Good 1v1 or 2v1 fights are fun to watch. 5v5 is too chaotic to follow…

It would be great if people could play spvp free in a move towards esports. Also great advertising for pve!

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

NeXeD.3042:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

NeXeD.3042:

TheDevice.2751:

Solstice.1097:

to me fighting d/d ele is like fighting a warrior. they have a lot of sustain over time so it takes a coordinated burst to get them down as fast as possible is the best way otherwise they will always be able to ecsape and they will be healed by the time they reach whatever fight they rotate to.

keeping the ele pressured out of the point prevents them from stacking too much might which means on a cele amulet they are not super dangerous.

also boon stripping isn’t being used often enough in this meta as it probably should be.

boon stripping isn’t viable. its as simple as that. merry christmas

It’s viable, land the boon strips and your transfers.

Null Field and Corrupt Boon are viable, as is Path of Corruption. Not much else is due to either being single boon removal (frequently getting Swiftness instead of something useful), or being easily avoided (Spinal Shivers with its monstrous cast time, Well of Corruption where it can be avoided by walking).

Null Field is just as avoidable as Well of Corruption, but it doubles as AoE condi removal, so it remains viable to use.

Even so, 40 second cooldowns are not enough boonstripping to manage the spam. Especially since the meta is very hostile to Necros and Mesmers alike right now for other reasons. They’re desired, sure, but they have a rough time competing.

Necros are desired because they do have the most viable boon removal, but their requirements of being babysat (still extremely susceptible to CC) are still there since launch. How many teams can devote two players to boonstrip, especially when only one actually has the ability?

The ones that want to beat the celestial classes will do it if they are smart.

Or they can have just as great a chance of success by using the celestial meta themselves.

Yeah or they could counter the celestial classes with a necro.

The real issue is this. Ele and Engi are at least 15-20% better than the others.

They are the tankiest classes in the game and still deal out medium damage thanks to either/or burning and might stacking. Without burning they would have no sustain and without might stacking they would have no burst. Engi’s do not often might stack, and that is why Ele seems even more broken.

Not only that they have more CC than most classes, good mobility, more skills off CD at any one time, and the strongest regen in the game.

Ele is really broken because it also has strong protection from conditions. So it basically has no weakness. Engi is stronger than most classes that have not specced for it as healing turret is an AOE 2 condition cleanse every 15 sec.

Something has to give here. ATM the team with more of these 2 classes wins 75% of the time.

If I was to do something to Engi I would increase its CD on healing turret by 5 sec flamethrower by 5 sec and shave a second off a couple of its burnings. IP I would make a yellow trait.

Ele needs a stronger look. It is just out of control as it has not weaknesses at all. It’s hard to even know where to begin here.

There have been a lot of good ideas on how to shave ele’s and engineers.
The most obvious imo is to give eng cc longer cast times and some animation, this may push players into a more cond based build in which case IP is a problem(with Balth runes), so maybe increase auto attack of pistol/bleeds and reduce the proc/ give the proc an icon so you know its about to hit and if dodged it’s lost? (see warrior adrenaline change)
For ele’s its a combination of too much burn/healing/blasting, all 3 need to be shaved. Its really lame to know that if the ele coming at you is played well, it wont be beat.
These proff’s also have amazing (ele) to great (eng) utility, making them indispensable to a team but this is another issue altogether lol.

Rickster.8752:

Amir.1570:

800 more stats than the typical amulet is really gear advantage when you think about it.
Specially when your class synergizes with it too much, it’s just so much crap you have to deal with.

They really need to shave the defense portion of the amulet so that this damage meta can actually work and maybe bring back some zerk/assassin builds.

Cause for a damage type of meta, class, or playstyle, celestial has way too much defense that it overlaps zerk and assassins and maybe even soldiers.

I agree, it is something like 20% more stats. Ele and engi can use ALL of the stats. Thus they essentially just have better gear than you. I think it is better to just play WoW as at least the gear grind can be maxed out by all classes there.

Let’s nerf Cele after Ele is given the same bonus stats, innately, just like Necro and Warrior. You know, those extra couple thousands HP and toughness that you get for free, it’s more than a thousand stats.

Sunshine.5014:

Rickster.8752:

Amir.1570:

800 more stats than the typical amulet is really gear advantage when you think about it.
Specially when your class synergizes with it too much, it’s just so much crap you have to deal with.

They really need to shave the defense portion of the amulet so that this damage meta can actually work and maybe bring back some zerk/assassin builds.

Cause for a damage type of meta, class, or playstyle, celestial has way too much defense that it overlaps zerk and assassins and maybe even soldiers.

I agree, it is something like 20% more stats. Ele and engi can use ALL of the stats. Thus they essentially just have better gear than you. I think it is better to just play WoW as at least the gear grind can be maxed out by all classes there.

Let’s nerf Cele after Ele is given the same bonus stats, innately, just like Necro and Warrior. You know, those extra couple thousands HP and toughness that you get for free, it’s more than a thousand stats.

This is a very bad analogy by the way. I said gear difference, not class difference. Ele is a class which can have damage, perma-vigor, mobility, multiple stun breaks, and sustain, of course it’s going to have the lower HP because it’s already stupidly strong in other aspects.

Though celestial is a class difference in a sense that Ele and Engi can make the most out of it.

Also if you’re implying Necro is broken, then sure it is. But if you’re saying Warrior’s high HP pool is broken then I don’t know what else to say to you other than L2P. Because you sound like someone who thinks Warrior is OP but probably misses earth shaker 80% of the time if you would play one.

countless threads about this and anet refuses to comment in any shape or form. the most influential thing in the game at the moment, the very thing that is shaping the competitive meta for the worst, and not a single letter from the developers. i dont know whether to be just disappointed or just downright disgusted at this point.

sinject.4607:

countless threads about this and anet refuses to comment in any shape or form. the most influential thing in the game at the moment, the very thing that is shaping the competitive meta for the worst, and not a single letter from the developers. i dont know whether to be just disappointed or just downright disgusted at this point.

And what is there to comment on about?

I’ve learned myself how to deal with celestial builds.

How about the rest of the people learn as well and stop demanding to be babysitted.

Berserker set doesn’t even vitality outside of HOTM. This is why I think Celestial can be nerfed to where it’s still viable but not as stupidly advantageous.

Necromancers can counter cele builds with all the boon strips that they have. Once you take out the boons from cele builds they go down fast. But I still think either the class or amulet need some tweaks.

I’m more for adding +50 or +100 to all stats in Celestial Amulet.
Then maybe I’ll consider it being OP.

Personally,

I actually like the " celestial Meta "

its predictable.

When I get rolled by a Celestial Elementalist. I just simply know that I got outplayed By a better player, and I offer kudos.

Lately I am noticing that I am winning vs them more than I am losing. Am I getting carried by my team? perhaps… Am I landing my own rotations Better? maybe… Am I a dungeon running PvE scrub? most likely. Which is probably Why I can win against Celestial.

Its predictable.