Guild Wars 2

Ropechef.6192:

Personally,

I actually like the " celestial Meta "

its predictable.

When I get rolled by a Celestial Elementalist. I just simply know that I got outplayed By a better player, and I offer kudos.

Lately I am noticing that I am winning vs them more than I am losing. Am I getting carried by my team? perhaps… Am I landing my own rotations Better? maybe… Am I a dungeon running PvE scrub? most likely. Which is probably Why I can win against Celestial.

Its predictable.

Sure you can win against it, but it does not change the fact that it is gear advantage. 100% fair gameplay says false advertisement.

Celestial does everything about 30 to 40 percent worse that its specialized counterpart.

how is that an advantage?

For those who don’t know there is a stow weapon trick that makes celestial ele PROC SIGNET OF RESTORATION TWICE ON AUTOATCK. The trick consists in stow your weapon canceling the autoatk, BUT the signet will proc even canceling. So in the end using lightning whip (air 1) with that they are exploiting the healing signet gaining the benefits of a skill they didnt even cast. If that is fixed will be a major NERF/FIX to d/d ele. There is also other classes using the same trick like mesmer. I made a topic about this issue on this pvp forum, feel free to go there support the idea.

Ropechef.6192:

Celestial does everything about 30 to 40 percent worse that its specialized counterpart.

how is that an advantage?

if this disadvantage really existed then celestial d/d elementalist would naturally have taken second place in the meta to these “specialized counterparts”. if you want to talk actual percentages let’s talk factual percentages.

all amulets save for celestial: 2232 stat points.

celestial amulet: 3066 stat points.

that is 834 more stat points than every other amulet in the game. this is about 27.3% more stats than other amulets, in other words all other amulets only have a little less than 3/4ths the stat points of celestial. and so now that i’ve established there is a clear, objective, numerical imbalance lets look at the professions with celestial meta builds.

celestial elementalist, engineer, and warrior are meta because of the absurd efficiency of their usage of every single stat.

elementalist’s d/d weapon skills, engineer’s rifle weapon skills (plus tool/nade kit skills), and warrior’s longbow + a/s weapon skills all have attacks that scale extremely well with either power/ferocity or condition damage (or both). with their weapon skills alone they get the most out of hybrid stats without having to sacrifice any utility. they are also the three professions most capable of stacking might and maintaining might stacks thanks to the facts that engineer, elementalist, and warrior reward constant weapon swapping and can take advantage of battle sigils more than other professions. there’s also the fact that elementalist and warrior can also use fire fields + blast finishers to stack might even higher. and so thanks the hybrid nature of might, their hybrid offensive capabilities are pushed into the realm of being hard hitting despite the fact their low offensive base stats should be making the opposite true.

their efficiency with defensive stats is also similar, in that they all can utilize healing power with high passive heals like healing signet, signet of restoration, backpack regenerator, vigorous shouts etc.

one thing i’ve noticed about celestial condition damage is that all three builds are vastly reliant on burning, almost singly in the case of elementalist. drake’s breath on ele for example is ridiculous and you also have incendiary powder on engineer, these two mechanics alone deserve a direct nerf and both have been identified by all sides of the community as needing it desperately.

celestial is a plague no matter how you look at it.

at first i was like kittening cele, but the more i start thinking about it the more i think that its fine as is, ive been playing heaps of SD engineer lately and its never been tankier, its damage is really good and im quite efficiently taking down cele builds granted alot of the time its because of a higher level of skill, but that dosent change the fact that SD engi that was never overly effective and had a little bit of a jump in terms of overall viability when spike damage toke a hit from everyone stacking on cele, so the way i see it, rather then nerf cele anet should take a look at these off beat builds that work in some situations but cant get into the meta because of what they are lacking, its just a thought, but im sure there are plenty of builds right now that get forced into a cliche role that cant keep up with the amount of roles that cele meta builds are able to achieve.

xDudisx.5914:

For those who don’t know there is a stow weapon trick that makes celestial ele PROC SIGNET OF RESTORATION TWICE ON AUTOATCK. The trick consists in stow your weapon canceling the autoatk, BUT the signet will proc even canceling. So in the end using lightning whip (air 1) with that they are exploiting the healing signet gaining the benefits of a skill they didnt even cast. If that is fixed will be a major NERF/FIX to d/d ele. There is also other classes using the same trick like mesmer. I made a topic about this issue on this pvp forum, feel free to go there support the idea.

You don’t even know how to do it and you keep complaining about it lol… You are casting the whip again…..don’t know why you keep saying you aren’t casting anything. They can’t just remove weapon stow I use it to cancel skills even when I’m not lightning whipping all over someone’s face. Delete the aftercast is the only real way to do it. That solution would only work with lightning whip though. Mesmers would still be one shotting you while invisible just by pressing 1 and stow.

Haven’t played game in a year just checking in to see whats up.

People still talking about Esports?
What the kitten?

ensoriki.5789:

Haven’t played game in a year just checking in to see whats up.

People still talking about Esports?
What the kitten?

Well, it helps when you have multiple 50k tournies, no?

Hey guys- disclaimer to start here. I know I’m not the best nor a part of them so take what I say with a grain of salt. But all the talk of nerfing the cele amulet seems to be so we can go towards a game that is influenced by zerk amulets. Isn’t that completely against the idea of balance? It may be my limited time and experience, but I’ve never heard of a “good” build with something like barbarian or rampager amulets. Let me know what you guys think. Thanks!

Eles and Engis make good use of celestial because both of those builds have a lot more skills and CDs to manage, because if they don’t use all those skills then they aren’t making use of the amulet’s extra stats. It’s a higher skill playstyle that in return gives higher reward, which does technically mean that it is OP at the highest levels of play, however at that level of play those teams pretty much know how to counter it (but sometimes they choose not to change their comp to counter it – being forced to reactively counter a build is usually a sign it is OP)

but for most players the amulet is only 10% of the reason why you lost that fight – other 90% was you got outplayed.

if i had to suggest a change for cele amulet i would increase all stats by about 7-10%, but then you only get to choose 6 stats and not all 7. you’d have to give up one of them of our choice. so you’d essentially have 7 different celestial amulets (cele without ferocity, cele without vitality, etc)

Solstice.1097:

if i had to suggest a change for cele amulet i would increase all stats by about 7-10%, but then you only get to choose 6 stats and not all 7. you’d have to give up one of them of our choice. so you’d essentially have 7 different celestial amulets (cele without ferocity, cele without vitality, etc)

Best idea 2014

Ok that’s enough forum for this year, cya all Jan!!

Phaeton.9582:

Solstice.1097:

if i had to suggest a change for cele amulet i would increase all stats by about 7-10%, but then you only get to choose 6 stats and not all 7. you’d have to give up one of them of our choice. so you’d essentially have 7 different celestial amulets (cele without ferocity, cele without vitality, etc)

Best idea 2014

Ok that’s enough forum for this year, cya all Jan!!

We might as well get rid of amulets all together and have stat points only added via traits.

That is what the celestial meta has really done, made amulets uneccessary.

Sube Dai.8496:

Phaeton.9582:

Solstice.1097:

if i had to suggest a change for cele amulet i would increase all stats by about 7-10%, but then you only get to choose 6 stats and not all 7. you’d have to give up one of them of our choice. so you’d essentially have 7 different celestial amulets (cele without ferocity, cele without vitality, etc)

Best idea 2014

Ok that’s enough forum for this year, cya all Jan!!

We might as well get rid of amulets all together and have stat points only added via traits.

That is what the celestial meta has really done, made amulets uneccessary.

i always thought they should just give you like 2500 stats nad let you allocate them however you want.

but with restrictions such as

power precision ferocity cond dmg combined cannot exceed 2k
toughness vitality healing power combined cannot exceed 2k

no one stat can exceed 900

Solstice.1097:

Sube Dai.8496:

Phaeton.9582:

Solstice.1097:

if i had to suggest a change for cele amulet i would increase all stats by about 7-10%, but then you only get to choose 6 stats and not all 7. you’d have to give up one of them of our choice. so you’d essentially have 7 different celestial amulets (cele without ferocity, cele without vitality, etc)

Best idea 2014

Ok that’s enough forum for this year, cya all Jan!!

We might as well get rid of amulets all together and have stat points only added via traits.

That is what the celestial meta has really done, made amulets uneccessary.

i always thought they should just give you like 2500 stats nad let you allocate them however you want.

but with restrictions such as

power precision ferocity cond dmg combined cannot exceed 2k
toughness vitality healing power combined cannot exceed 2k

no one stat can exceed 900

Yes…

Then the builds could be balanced based on their performance with actual proper itemization, and balance wouldn’t be thrown for a loop when a useful new (or buffed) amulet surfaces.

But it won’t happen because that would complicate the character building process.

Chaith.8256:

Solstice.1097:

Sube Dai.8496:

Phaeton.9582:

Solstice.1097:

if i had to suggest a change for cele amulet i would increase all stats by about 7-10%, but then you only get to choose 6 stats and not all 7. you’d have to give up one of them of our choice. so you’d essentially have 7 different celestial amulets (cele without ferocity, cele without vitality, etc)

Best idea 2014

Ok that’s enough forum for this year, cya all Jan!!

We might as well get rid of amulets all together and have stat points only added via traits.

That is what the celestial meta has really done, made amulets uneccessary.

i always thought they should just give you like 2500 stats nad let you allocate them however you want.

but with restrictions such as

power precision ferocity cond dmg combined cannot exceed 2k
toughness vitality healing power combined cannot exceed 2k

no one stat can exceed 900

Yes…

Then the builds could be balanced based on their performance with actual proper itemization, and balance wouldn’t be thrown for a loop when a useful new (or buffed) amulet surfaces.

But it won’t happen because that would complicate the character building process.

yea but that’s not hard to overcome… can just still have pre-set amulets and a pvp tutorial (built like a story mission) that upon completion you ‘unlock’ the ability to choose your own stats instead of a pre-set amulet, if you so choose to.

Correct me if I’m wrong here, but wouldn’t stat allocation provide the same thing celestial + sigils + runes already accomplish?

Most players differ in their opinions as to what direction they want the balance to go. I personally believe Anet needs to put their heads together and give the community guidance as to which direction they want the meta to go. If they did, we could see the progress being made, or the lack thereof. Granted, it’s a hard task, but it definitely would be a baseline to build off of.

Only if they were given the same amount of stat points as celestial ammy. Seems like the allocation method would be able to produce a really toned down version. Probably be useless.

I worry about Stat placement being given to players, Celestial by quirk of fate got introduced and ended up being awesome – imagine if you had competative people refining it.

The devs need to lead here and need to decide what kind of direction they want Stats in PvP to take, atm we have so many amulets that are utterly pointless and a couple that have total dominance. (I’m not saying this for buffs or nerfs to amulets just as an indicator that the current system needs a bit of a look).

Unfortunately one of the biggest problems with Celestial is that since weapons decide your skills and the game was designed around trying to minimise people being useless with statting the wrong way Condi/Power wise a lot of weapons end up having stuff which benefit greatly from Power/Prec/Fero/Condi at once and mixing in really high defensive values gives us Celest Meta.

Its a really difficult problem and I genuinely can’t see a way of changing the use of Celestial without utterly destroying it or removing it.

What if they gave every class a viable celestial weapon?

Personally I think if you want balance in this game, you need to cut customization.

Players can select a class, and when they enter a competitive match, they will pick between 3-4 “Anet Approved,” “Balanced,” preset builds that they can run perhaps with minimal customization to said builds.

If one of these builds is obviously overpowered or whatnot, all that needs to happen is for anet to tweak said build.

Reikou.7068:

Personally I think if you want balance in this game, you need to cut customization.

Players can select a class, and when they enter a competitive match, they will pick between 3-4 “Anet Approved,” “Balanced,” preset builds that they can run perhaps with minimal customization to said builds.

If one of these builds is obviously overpowered or whatnot, all that needs to happen is for anet to tweak said build.

Your ideal world would be the most boring one that I’ve ever seen in my life. I don’t want a stagnant playstyle for a class and no one ever should.

You may be right in some respect, but this idea should just never happen.

Reikou.7068:

Personally I think if you want balance in this game, you need to cut customization.

Players can select a class, and when they enter a competitive match, they will pick between 3-4 “Anet Approved,” “Balanced,” preset builds that they can run perhaps with minimal customization to said builds.

If one of these builds is obviously overpowered or whatnot, all that needs to happen is for anet to tweak said build.

Yeah let’s just turn this game into a MOBA…..

Solstice.1097:

Sube Dai.8496:

Phaeton.9582:

Solstice.1097:

if i had to suggest a change for cele amulet i would increase all stats by about 7-10%, but then you only get to choose 6 stats and not all 7. you’d have to give up one of them of our choice. so you’d essentially have 7 different celestial amulets (cele without ferocity, cele without vitality, etc)

Best idea 2014

Ok that’s enough forum for this year, cya all Jan!!

We might as well get rid of amulets all together and have stat points only added via traits.

That is what the celestial meta has really done, made amulets uneccessary.

i always thought they should just give you like 2500 stats nad let you allocate them however you want.

but with restrictions such as

power precision ferocity cond dmg combined cannot exceed 2k
toughness vitality healing power combined cannot exceed 2k

no one stat can exceed 900

Funny enough, this was the original intention before the games release(not sure of the number at max lvl) to allow stat allocation. I think just minor tweaks to all, not just the two in discussion would benefit greatly towards proper balance. Instant skills, traits with significant benefit/little risk, skills that promote spamming, ect.

DevilsGlare.7658:

Correct me if I’m wrong here, but wouldn’t stat allocation provide the same thing celestial + sigils + runes already accomplish?

Most players differ in their opinions as to what direction they want the balance to go. I personally believe Anet needs to put their heads together and give the community guidance as to which direction they want the meta to go. If they did, we could see the progress being made, or the lack thereof. Granted, it’s a hard task, but it definitely would be a baseline to build off of.

I couldn’t agree more right here. I just want to know how they’re going to try to balance it so we can see what they’re thinking. Then we can add input if we don’t like it before it happens.

Amir.1570:

Your ideal world would be the most boring one that I’ve ever seen in my life. I don’t want a stagnant playstyle for a class and no one ever should.

You may be right in some respect, but this idea should just never happen.

Please elaborate why this should “never happen.”

In GW2’s various incarnations, each class only has had up to 3 relevant builds at any one time, and everyone is playing these builds, so the factor of customization, or lack thereof is obviously not that important.

As such, giving up this unimportant factor for far better balance seems like a decent trade off to me. It will also help anet achieve the goal of balance in PvP far more easily. If we are actually prioritizing the discussion of balance, then I don’t see why this should “never happen.”

NeXeD.3042:

Yeah let’s just turn this game into a MOBA…..

Not sure how this is even relevant. Gameplay and game format for GW2 is distinctly MMORPG’ish.

Even 3’s a stretch Reikou. Most have 1, maybe 2 that would be considered “viable.” I’d honestly be fine with that trade-off as well seeing as how we’re limited regardless.

Here’s my thoughts on current pvp balance:

Engi: Lower sustain a small amount and reduce cc.
Gear shield should be 25s cd.
Magnet lines should be visible from stealth, otherwise it’s a rediculous teamfight initiator vs classes with no ports.
Revert part of the slick shoes buff – utility skill returns to 60s cd, toolbelt becomes 40s.
Poison nades should go back to being blockable/reflectable, even if that would require removing the red circles. They make team ressing and point sustain very aids for guardian atm.
Incendiary Powder should either have a buff proc or lower duration.
Give overcharge shot a tell animation and a cast time of 0.5s and the self-cc is reduced in distance and duration by 50% each.
Shield 4 should reduce duration or increase cooldown, its mobile projectile defense in combination with gear shield is quite a lot of ranged defense on short cds.

Ele: slightly reduce sustain and burning application
Remove the ability to cancel cast lightning whip.
Reduce the burning application of drakes breath (maybe 4x 2s instead of 4x 3s).
Lower cleansing slightly (restore 5s icd to regen cleanse trait?).

Necro: fear spam OP
Reapers Protection and Doom fear durations reduced to 1s.

Overall: Reduce damage from celestial and might stacking
Celestial amulet gives 20 less stat points in each stat.
Flame blast finishers now apply 3 stacks of might aoe for 15s, down from 3 for 20s.
Battle sigil similarly applies its 3 stacks of might for only 15s instead of 20s.
Nightmare runes fear reduced to 1s.
Balth runes lower burning duration boost by 10%.

Pet Guardian requests:
Shield 5 is now mobile like Engi shield 4 and also lasts as long as the tooltip says (4s).
Cool Virtues GM traits!

Kthxbye

As much as my opinion is not any more or less viable than the other posts, I hope Anet realizes that there is a pretty big problem with the current meta. I don’t think it was foreseeable (as things have just compounded on eachother), but it has happened and there is need for the community and devs to band together in order to fix what has occurred. Of course, no meta is perfect, but this meta is getting to the point of being worse than previous ones.

The biggest issues are of course celestial engineer and elementalists. The capacity to do everything well beyond the typical “jack-of-all-trades” is too good to give up, forcing teams to run at least 3 celestial builds and 2 glass (thief, necro…maybe mesmer but yet to be seen) if wanting to play competitively. People may want to argue this, but currently as it stands you MUST have 3 celestials.

Okay, before I get any rage the following points I’m going to make is purely opinion and coming from a semi-competitive (sort-of, inb4 laughter/gossip girls) d/p thief since ToL1 days.

1) The game’s gotten a lot harder than it was back in the day as the general community is itself improving in skill, which was then really noticeably compounded for engineers and elementalists with the introduction of celestial amulet and the sigils. I really feel that I have improved much when I compare my past gameplay VoDs when I removed autoattack functions, introduced cancel-casting to all skills, and only dodged when seeing animations, but it just doesn’t seem to be enough against the current meta. People are dying much faster now, and it’s really unforgiving for any non-bunker build that doesn’t run celestial or acrobatics. It’s really discouraging to see a backstab do less damage than a lightning whip.

2) It’s kinda hard for people to form teams, as it is a requirement for people to run 3 celestial builds. Not everyone wants to play celestial, and that can really pigeonhole who you want to pick up for a team.

3)Tips for improvement:
-I think the small skirmish viability of celestial builds needs to be toned down. Damage needs to be toned down, and as zoose pointed it out in his video, might stacking and doom sigil would be a good start. I am also a proponent of reducing a few stats on the celestial amulet by 20-45
-Nightmare rune is the biggest offender of not much counterplay. Other tweaks would of course include adding visible animations to when reaper’s proc or incendiary powder is up.
-The ranger class needs to be looked at. The class itself is a mess currently, and I think that a total revamp is necessary.

One thing about people playing celestial builds is people played bunker builds when it was the meta. The current meta will always be a deciding factor in who wants who on a team. Just the way it is until there’s enough viable builds to bring to the table.

Nerfing celestial will only bring about a different meta where players will same builds unless Anet looks into tuning up traits on every class where there’s more than one “optimal” build.

@Aeroxe I think ranger is doing ok, they are currently overshadowed by Ele though. If Ele comes down condi Ranger becomes more competitive, entangle just isn’t great against ele and necro. Power ranger is pretty aids in solo queue though when people don’t hunt it actively just like zerk staff ele, I guess we need to decide how many changes should be based off solo q because I think there are worse offenders at the moment in that department (turrets, lich)

I think once Ele is more in line the number of aoe cleanses goes down and ranger viability goes up. Ele might need to lose a little cleansing somewhere, the number of clears proccing from regeneration is high atm.

The celestial meta is the ONLY working build on the ele. With any other builds you basically have little chance thanks to all the nerfs the class has gotten in the past 2 years.

Why not fixed the broken ranger damage? Broken shatter damage spikes? Broken Engi turrets in capture points? Broken Lich form 6k auto attack? Before even thinking about nerfing once more the gear elementalists depends on.

If you nerf celestial gear you better improve elementalist traits in return so we dont have to spend 6 points in arcana and water just to survive a normal fight.

theoutsider.7849:

That is pretty much what it all comes down to. This game would be so much more fun if there were frequent updates and balance changes like in other popular PvP games.
Instead, Arenanet just keeps it stale and boring.

No. No, it would not.

There are many players who don’t want to have to tweak their builds all the time. They just want to the play the game. Remember, PvE and PvP skills are supposed to be the same. Any change for PvP probably has knockon effects for PvE. Constant changes so that high level PvPers are always forced out of their comfort zone would be a huge mess for PvE and WvW.

Josh Davis.6015:

Hey all,

I just wanted to let you guys know that your comments and discussions haven’t gone unnoticed or unread. The team keeps pretty good tabs on the forums, even if we’re not making a lot of regular posts over the holiday break. We had a number of conversations regarding the feedback found in this thread and others.

I don’t think we’re ready to talk about specifics right now (and I certainly can’t make that call on my own with everyone out of the office), but I figured you guys would like a little reassurance that we’re aware of your thoughts on the matter.

Josh

Just so long as you’re remembering this:

Xillllix.3485:

The celestial meta is the ONLY working build on the ele. With any other builds you basically have little chance thanks to all the nerfs the class has gotten in the past 2 years.

Why not fixed the broken ranger damage? Broken shatter damage spikes? Broken Engi turrets in capture points? Broken Lich form 6k auto attack? Before even thinking about nerfing once more the gear elementalists depends on.

If you nerf celestial gear you better improve elementalist traits in return so we dont have to spend 6 points in arcana and water just to survive a normal fight.

I’ve played ele from the beginning, and can still remember months of being the laughingstock of PvP and kicked from dungeon runs. I love the class, but we have very limited options for effective gear and builds.

I think people are complaining partially because we used to be terrible at everything. It was a huge shift in the meta when eles became effective, and it caused people to blow ele effectiveness out of proportion. So now cele ele is popular because it gets talked up so much. shrug There probably is room for a little tweak, but that’s true of lots of classes. And I definitely don’t want to go back to NO viable ele builds.

List the classes that have high might sustain + health regen.
List the classes that don’t.
Now list the classes that benefit celes amulet the most.

Hmm…

Before adjusting the classes and probably making them weaker in other parts of the game (pve/wvw) I suggest you take a look at the celestial stats imo. Right now classes don’t need to invest into more offensive lines because they have enough critchance in the celestial amu to trigger they’re vigor and an abundance of vitality and other defensive stats to add up.

My suggestion is to remove precision and vitality from the celestial amulet. (Those stats should not exist together with power condition dmg and critdmg). And buff the other stats accordingly.

This way if that certain player needs more crit chance, it would have to either go on the precision line, or swap out Strenght/Hoelbrack for Pack or other runes.

This will fix a big chunk of the “poisonous” current meta problem that we have.

Josh Davis.6015:

Hey all,

I just wanted to let you guys know that your comments and discussions haven’t gone unnoticed or unread. The team keeps pretty good tabs on the forums, even if we’re not making a lot of regular posts over the holiday break. We had a number of conversations regarding the feedback found in this thread and others.

I don’t think we’re ready to talk about specifics right now (and I certainly can’t make that call on my own with everyone out of the office), but I figured you guys would like a little reassurance that we’re aware of your thoughts on the matter.

Josh

Josh Davis.6015:

Hey all,

I just wanted to let you guys know that your comments and discussions haven’t gone unnoticed or unread. The team keeps pretty good tabs on the forums, even if we’re not making a lot of regular posts over the holiday break. We had a number of conversations regarding the feedback found in this thread and others.

I don’t think we’re ready to talk about specifics right now (and I certainly can’t make that call on my own with everyone out of the office), but I figured you guys would like a little reassurance that we’re aware of your thoughts on the matter.

Josh

Appreciate the response, Grouch. Tons of people are taking the time to invest in balance discussions here. It’s nice to know it isn’t for nothing.

cymerdown.4103:

Magnet lines should be visible from stealth, otherwise it’s a rediculous teamfight initiator vs classes with no ports.

Wait a second the magnet line actaully goes invis? i allways thought it was because not seeing an engineer doing it made it harder to realize a clear wavy line was there the line itself in spvp.

Celestial needs to be re-tuned or deleted. It seems no reason to try other amulets because you are almost equal in the top stats and get more survival bonuses, as reinforced secure regen in a toughness cocoon. All that matters is passively keeping your 12-25 might stacks up than actually playing the game.

creepmatic.9435:

My suggestion is to remove precision and vitality from the celestial amulet. (Those stats should not exist together with power condition dmg and critdmg). And buff the other stats accordingly.

This way if that certain player needs more crit chance, it would have to either go on the precision line, or swap out Strenght/Hoelbrack for Pack or other runes.

This will fix a big chunk of the “poisonous” current meta problem that we have.

Don’t nerf the celestial amulet. There was a reason it was buffed in the first place. It’s now on par with most amulets out there with 1-3 builds out of 8 classes utilizing it.
The issue is the builds sustain; large amounts of damage and regeneration. OR the inability to boon strip and better counter these huge sustaining classes.
Otherwise, why have a build that lasts just as long as a zerker, or does just as much damage as a clerics.
Celes is the middle ground that didn’t anticipate (30s through the fight) that extra 7s of zerker damage because of 15 stacks of might.

Right now you have 421 to all stats. Removing Precision and Vitality and distributing them equally to the other stats will give you around 589 to (Power, Toughness, Ferocity, Healing Power and Condition Damage). That is no ware near lasting as a zerker and doing damage as a clerics.
You would have to make tradeoffs, if you need precision either loose that sustain from traits (vitality line) or keep the sustain but loose the might stacking and vice versa.
In the current state people can get also sustain, crit chance and might stacking all in one package. (at least the classes that benefit, and which they do they benefit too much)

I feel that the issue isn’t as much with celestial stats but with the way it interact with might, the less power/condition damage you have the more you get from it as it’s a flat bonus instead of percentage bonus. I think might should become a percentage bonus to all outgoing damage 1 or 2 percent per stack.

i, zhaife, #1 everything of south america, have decided that ‘celestial’ is my favorite word of all the amulet names.

celestial ain’t the problem, it’s might stacking.

scerevisiae.1972:

celestial ain’t the problem, it’s might stacking.

Ok so tell me why 0.0.2.6.6 ele’s don’t take Berzerker Amulet instead? Beacouse they already build for max sustain and max utility?

Becouse they can crit enough in celestial while getting even more vitality, toughness, and healing + the other extra offensive stats.

Taking precision and vitality away from celestial will force them to change runes for more precision, or chance sigils or even spec in to air thus loosing on sustain or on might stacking.

You have to make a choice between precision as in traits, rune/sigils, or amulet. You can’t have all the stat’s in the same package + might stacking.

Edit: some typo

the only thing that is wrong with “Celestial”

is that it is perfectly average.

it does everything averagely.

which leads to perfectly average matches.

the only way you are going to “fix” the Celestial Meta. is by buffing very specific traits and skills on some of the other classes to allow a balance of pressure.

The only thing wrong with “celestial” is that it is averagely boring.

scerevisiae.1972:

celestial ain’t the problem, it’s might stacking.

Having a 30% gear advantage isn’t a problem? Cool story bro.

Rickster.8752:

scerevisiae.1972:

celestial ain’t the problem, it’s might stacking.

Having a 30% gear advantage isn’t a problem? Cool story bro.

Disadvantage,

Celestial does everything 30 percent WORSE. than is Specialized counterpart.

“C” average.

They should hotfix this with a 30 pt reduction across all stats on the amulet.

It won’t solve the problem. The amulet will still be too strong. The specs like d/d ele will still be too strong.

But at least it will be better whilst they work out how to change things. It is low risk to make this change, a true “shave” and so it makes sense to just do it as a band aid for the current issue.