Guild Wars 2

Ropechef.6192:

Rickster.8752:

scerevisiae.1972:

celestial ain’t the problem, it’s might stacking.

Having a 30% gear advantage isn’t a problem? Cool story bro.

Disadvantage,

Celestial does everything 30 percent WORSE. than is Specialized counterpart.

“C” average.

When you use all the stats this really doesn’t matter very much.

scerevisiae.1972:

celestial ain’t the problem, it’s might stacking.

It’s not, ele is a “celestial class” no matter what you do it, due to their mechanic it wouldn’t make sense if celestial wasn’t their optimal spec. Look at engi..what reliable engi spec you know that doesn’t use kits…mix of kit results in spec somewhat similar to ele mechanic. I’m not sure what most find broken on ele since I find engi a harder matchup.

Also take in the conquest factor, no one runs a corruption necro around or whatever possible boon hate spec out there. Aren’t we supposed to counter specs using tools given to us? Take a look at boon hate(Mimic as well) and AoE offense and defense. There is no need to shave other than some parts of engi just give us the counters we will use them if they are implemented properly the meta will change and balance it self out for now . Who expect to win vs condi or CC if they don’t bring counters??

since when did stats not matter . Seems that is something everyone seems to forget here.
Everyone gets the same amount of points too spend in there builts.
Ever piece of armor as long as its in the same class have the same amount of stats .
For some reason this isnt true for amulets. How could a game be balance . If that stats arnt balanced. Reguardless of what anyone says the same amount of stats should be on every amulet . Just like in wvw/pve .

I dont see any reason for anyone to be a lacking in stats and suffer for there pick of amulet.

Stats matter period . Cele has more stats since it has more stats its better .

I’m going to agree with the general stream of comments here and say that the celestial amulet, at least as far as pvp goes (I havent been paying too much to WVW) is a bit overpowered for what it offers

Specializing in a specific stat should provide an immense boost to what you are specializing in at a cost to what you are not. For Celestial to be (what I’d consider) “balanced” respecting the specializations, it need to provide a boost to stats that does not, when summed up, provide a better layout(or worse, for that matter), than a player that specialized.

Right now, elementalists are benefiting largely from celestial amulets due to the fact that they can stack might easily and deal condition damage easily.

Looking at the celestial amulet, the stats it offers are +376 to all stats. Focusing on these two as regards condition builds:

+376 Power
+376 Condition Damage

Provides more benefit to classes that deal damaging conditions easier than specialized Amulets like Rabid, Carrion, Zerker, or Rampager because the reduction to the specialized stat is outweighed by the toughness and vitality/regen being added, and can easily be regained through might that the class would not otherwise be able to build without downing.

Essentially, Celestial amulets allow a couple of classes to play with a higher stat advantage than if they are specializing. It just takes them more time to do so.

Sagat.3285:

scerevisiae.1972:

celestial ain’t the problem, it’s might stacking.

It’s not, ele is a “celestial class” no matter what you do it, due to their mechanic it wouldn’t make sense if celestial wasn’t their optimal spec. Look at engi..what reliable engi spec you know that doesn’t use kits…mix of kit results in spec somewhat similar to ele mechanic. I’m not sure what most find broken on ele since I find engi a harder matchup.

Also take in the conquest factor, no one runs a corruption necro around or whatever possible boon hate spec out there. Aren’t we supposed to counter specs using tools given to us? Take a look at boon hate(Mimic as well) and AoE offense and defense. There is no need to shave other than some parts of engi just give us the counters we will use them if they are implemented properly the meta will change and balance it self out for now . Who expect to win vs condi or CC if they don’t bring counters??

Boon corruption necros do see a lot of play. They still have a tough time (though nowhere near as tough as anyone else) with CEles because they are reliant on one 40 second cooldown to really crack them.

The fact that the counter to CEles is “Corrupt Boon” doesn’t leave a whole lot in the way of answers.

People will cry for anything celestial gear now OP ahahahaha they lose and cry this is amassing and ele got hard counter from Mesmer insane counter not even all the gear combination can help me win that duel

If you can’t win against mesmer as an ele then you need to learn match ups and skill usage better.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Sagat.3285:

scerevisiae.1972:

celestial ain’t the problem, it’s might stacking.

It’s not, ele is a “celestial class” no matter what you do it, due to their mechanic it wouldn’t make sense if celestial wasn’t their optimal spec. Look at engi..what reliable engi spec you know that doesn’t use kits…mix of kit results in spec somewhat similar to ele mechanic. I’m not sure what most find broken on ele since I find engi a harder matchup.

Also take in the conquest factor, no one runs a corruption necro around or whatever possible boon hate spec out there. Aren’t we supposed to counter specs using tools given to us? Take a look at boon hate(Mimic as well) and AoE offense and defense. There is no need to shave other than some parts of engi just give us the counters we will use them if they are implemented properly the meta will change and balance it self out for now . Who expect to win vs condi or CC if they don’t bring counters??

Boon corruption necros do see a lot of play. They still have a tough time (though nowhere near as tough as anyone else) with CEles because they are reliant on one 40 second cooldown to really crack them.

The fact that the counter to CEles is “Corrupt Boon” doesn’t leave a whole lot in the way of answers.

Not just Corrupt Boon for necro also Unholy Feast,Spinal Shivers,Well of Corruption, Chill of Death,Path of Corruption and Necromantic Corruption the necro has the tools but the class counter it self in sustain and weakens as the foes increase in numbers. You would be surprised if necro was improved how much it would affect the current meta currently nerfs are a negative since it will ignore one issue and worsen an existing one.

I always wonder why they prioritize nerf request and put on the side improvements of UP traits and skills.

SobeSoul.6910:

If you can’t win against mesmer as an ele then you need to learn match ups and skill usage better.

Actually CI Mesmer is a very nasty counter to ele and it can pretty much destroy eles since they only carry 1 stun break these days plus they are immboed so they cant dodge or really do anything. Also, shatter Mesmer is also about a 50/50 matchup for d/d eles lol. There just aren’t a lot of mesmers that play competitively anymore so you don’t really get to see that matchup happen.

Neither of your statements are particularly true. If the ele is consistently losing to mesmers it’s a skill issue.

Sagat.3285:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Sagat.3285:

scerevisiae.1972:

celestial ain’t the problem, it’s might stacking.

It’s not, ele is a “celestial class” no matter what you do it, due to their mechanic it wouldn’t make sense if celestial wasn’t their optimal spec. Look at engi..what reliable engi spec you know that doesn’t use kits…mix of kit results in spec somewhat similar to ele mechanic. I’m not sure what most find broken on ele since I find engi a harder matchup.

Also take in the conquest factor, no one runs a corruption necro around or whatever possible boon hate spec out there. Aren’t we supposed to counter specs using tools given to us? Take a look at boon hate(Mimic as well) and AoE offense and defense. There is no need to shave other than some parts of engi just give us the counters we will use them if they are implemented properly the meta will change and balance it self out for now . Who expect to win vs condi or CC if they don’t bring counters??

Boon corruption necros do see a lot of play. They still have a tough time (though nowhere near as tough as anyone else) with CEles because they are reliant on one 40 second cooldown to really crack them.

The fact that the counter to CEles is “Corrupt Boon” doesn’t leave a whole lot in the way of answers.

Not just Corrupt Boon for necro also Unholy Feast,Spinal Shivers,Well of Corruption, Chill of Death,Path of Corruption and Necromantic Corruption the necro has the tools but the class counter it self in sustain and weakens as the foes increase in numbers. You would be surprised if necro was improved how much it would affect the current meta currently nerfs are a negative since it will ignore one issue and worsen an existing one.

I always wonder why they prioritize nerf request and put on the side improvements of UP traits and skills.

Probably because nerf requests are easier to work from. Necros do need help on the defense/sustain side to feel like a complete profession, but because of the design of the Necro, buffing those to a good level is a very difficult task. It would be extremely easy for Necros to become wildly OP, and ANet is terrified of the idea of bringing back the unkillable Necro bunkers of beta that could 1v5 and win.

Now with this in mind, yes, they should look to buffing others rather than nerfing Celementalists (I’m claiming that term :p), but one is a whole lot easier than the other.

The main reason why Celestial is used so often is because there is so little customization on stats that it becomes a valid compromise for anyone who doesn’t want to go all-out dps or all-out bunker… bring back amulet jewels (or any form of stat combination) and the amulet will be much less predominant.

Rickster.8752:

scerevisiae.1972:

celestial ain’t the problem, it’s might stacking.

Having a 30% gear advantage isn’t a problem? Cool story bro.

(So others know it went from 318 to 448 per stat. Celestial got an increase of 130 per stat or 30% buff.)

So were do you draw the line? Drop celestial to 20%? Nerf these specific might stacking classes? The runes?

From these pass tournaments, what’s the performance increase of celestials compared to other amulets and builds – the point difference due to builds?
My point is, not every ele and engi are celestials. If the point differences are between 400-500, it’s more towards rotation and/or minor adjustments to class balances themselves (not celestial itself)

There are few classes that makes use of celestials.

Hey I’ve been riding that sweet celestial train on my engi to farm the new aqua breathers in ranked. Just gonna chip in a bit.

Stop nerfing the classes that benefit from certain things. Like you nerf thief because of fire and air instead of fixing the sigils themselves. Arguably minor nerfs but still. Pointless.

If you nerf backpack regen, ele water traits, healing signet/restoration just because of some dumb amulet all you will do is further force them to run celestial because the other options will be even worse than they are now.

Depending on how hard you nerf you might just kill the class. Ele, engi, war out of the meta! All hail the new full signet bearbow overlords!
Why is it so hard to understand that you should never balance classes/builds around sigils and amulets? Is that such an elusive concept?

Thoth Divine.8642:

The main reason why Celestial is used so often is because there is so little customization on stats that it becomes a valid compromise for anyone who doesn’t want to go all-out dps or all-out bunker… bring back amulet jewels (or any form of stat combination) and the amulet will be much less predominant.

It’s so popular because it gives the most stats = has the most value for some classes.

Saiyan.1704:

Rickster.8752:

scerevisiae.1972:

celestial ain’t the problem, it’s might stacking.

Having a 30% gear advantage isn’t a problem? Cool story bro.

(So others know it went from 318 to 448 per stat. Celestial got an increase of 130 per stat or 30% buff.)

So were do you draw the line? Drop celestial to 20%? Nerf these specific might stacking classes? The runes?

Pretty sure it went from 331 + 45 from the gem = 376 -> 448. Went up 72 per stat.

Edit: Unforunately, my memory is kinda hazy, whether it was originally 331 or 318. However, the +45 from the old Gem system needs to be taken into account when seeing how much the amulet was buffed when the Cele amulet buff happened.

DevilsGlare.7658:

this game demands mechanically well-rounded, and fast twitch game play.

No, no, no, no, and no. The heck with this fast twitch b.s. Watching a fight that last a few seconds because everyone is in Zerker is boring as heck. The longer a fight last, the more skill and precision is required.

zerker meta is interesting and fun if you understand the game well, but celestial is easier to watch for casuals. probably one of the reasons the game was pushed this way.

Reikou.7068:

Amir.1570:

Your ideal world would be the most boring one that I’ve ever seen in my life. I don’t want a stagnant playstyle for a class and no one ever should.

You may be right in some respect, but this idea should just never happen.

Please elaborate why this should “never happen.”

In GW2’s various incarnations, each class only has had up to 3 relevant builds at any one time, and everyone is playing these builds, so the factor of customization, or lack thereof is obviously not that important.

As such, giving up this unimportant factor for far better balance seems like a decent trade off to me. It will also help anet achieve the goal of balance in PvP far more easily. If we are actually prioritizing the discussion of balance, then I don’t see why this should “never happen.”

NeXeD.3042:

Yeah let’s just turn this game into a MOBA…..

Not sure how this is even relevant. Gameplay and game format for GW2 is distinctly MMORPG’ish.

Let’s take Warrior for example

You’re saying Hambow should always be 00626 when it could be played 40604 or 04406.

You’re saying Shoutbow should always be 00464 when it could be played 00662.

You’re saying Berserker Power Warrior should never be in the sPvP meta just because it isn’t considered viable by the majority.

Do you see why your idea should just never happen? It’s a simple-minded fix and just a boring stagnant world.

Personally I’d love to see what would happen if might stacking were nerfed and the 3 celestial using classes had their heals tweeked so that they had to use heals you could reliably interrupt, and then gave a little buff to boon hate on mesmer and necro.

People need to decide what sort of meta they want.

Nerfing Might Stacking would arguably create a more balanced game, but it would still leave Celestial as the top amulet for 4-5 classes.

That’s fine if you don’t care about what amulet you use, and in this world amulets would arguably be unnecessary and could be removed.

The other option would be to nerf or remove the celestial amulet itself, forcing people to commit to tank, glass, condition builds. This is closer to what I believe was the original intention, which celestial has moved us away from.

However, the game is proving more balanced now in the celestial meta.

DeWolfe.2174:

DevilsGlare.7658:

this game demands mechanically well-rounded, and fast twitch game play.

No, no, no, no, and no. The heck with this fast twitch b.s. Watching a fight that last a few seconds because everyone is in Zerker is boring as heck. The longer a fight last, the more skill and precision is required.

To start, I don’t know where you’re getting this “last a few seconds” stuff. Power based comps consists of peeling, healing, damage mitigation, turtle strategies, as well as aggressive ones. It relies on your team working together as a whole to be successful.

This games base is built off of twitch game play, which adds an additional degree of difficulty to it. If you don’t know what twitch gameplay is, I suggest you look it up. Essentially, taking “twitch” out of the equation makes this a “turn-based” rotation (I’m saying this very loosely) and turning it into a game more in line with chess. It makes it easier for players, and casuals to play the game. But, it will deeply hurt the competitive community, and any dream to go big as far as the esports scene is concerned. Fact is, Celestial (+sigils and runes) allows you to take damage you shouldn’t have, and deal damage you shouldn’t be able to.

I fail to see your point, as well kitten many others. If you’re a user currently playing one of the builds, but you know you’re good. You will adapt. If you’re a user that is playing these builds and you’re scared for the looming change that will come…. RIP.

To clarify my opinions even further —- Anything other than a power meta devolves more into counter-comping and less about the notable skill of players. Frankly, I can barely tell the difference from a low tier player playing cele ele, and a high tier one, other than the amount of might stacks they may have up.

This game already has a low skill floor (which is amazing for casual and new players), but the meta shouldn’t FORCE the skill cap to lessen. Which, if some of you haven’t noticed, is what has happened.

So many pages, no time to read so here my quick input.

Celestial eles are most popular becouse their natural predator- s/d thief – is very weak option.

Thief buff maybe?

^ We need nerfs, not buffs. Need to combat the power creep.

DevilsGlare.7658:

To clarify my opinions even further —- Anything other than a power meta devolves more into counter-comping and less about the notable skill of players. Frankly, I can barely tell the difference from a low tier player playing cele ele, and a high tier one, other than the amount of might stacks they may have up.

This game already has a low skill floor (which is amazing for casual and new players), but the meta shouldn’t FORCE the skill cap to lessen. Which, if some of you haven’t noticed, is what has happened.

Vain for president. Nothing else needs to be said.

High Skill Cap techs have been getting nerfed over and over. Something needs to change.

Jackums.3496:

Urejt.5648:

So many pages, no time to read so here my quick input.

Celestial eles are most popular becouse their natural predator- s/d thief – is very weak option.

Thief buff maybe?

And then Mesmers become even more obsolete than they already are.

Don’t buff things to compensate for other things being over-powered. That’s a recipe for power creep. Nerf the things that are over-powered.

Not sure if that will help at all as that will just lead to another nerf-buff whack-a-mole rotation for the elementalists. But that may just become what happens, then you get 6 month elementalist OP followed by 6 months of elementists being useless.

Bran.7425:

Not sure if that will help at all as that will just lead to another nerf-buff whack-a-mole rotation for the elementalists. But that may just become what happens, then you get 6 month elementalist OP followed by 6 months of elementists being useless.

Pretty much what I am predicting. Last time ele was “OP” because it survived too much, they hit it in the sustain department, even though cele ele is a bunker build that goes 14/14 trait points and 3/3 utilities for defense. This is because, more than any other class, ele survivability is tied to some incredibly powerful traits, while the weapon skills and utilities that offered defense have repeatedly been nerfed. Its now in a tough spot again where some nerfs are needed, but doing so is most likely going to kill any semblance of life the fringe specs currently have. If they over-do it, then ele will once again be in a place where d/d bunker is the best spec, but strictly worse than others filling that role again…putting them right back in the trash-bin.

What about the protection on aura trait? Reduce duration?

Then another -50 from cele and we have a winner….

DevilsGlare.7658:

To clarify my opinions even further —- Anything other than a power meta devolves more into counter-comping and less about the notable skill of players. Frankly, I can barely tell the difference from a low tier player playing cele ele, and a high tier one, other than the amount of might stacks they may have up.

This game already has a low skill floor (which is amazing for casual and new players), but the meta shouldn’t FORCE the skill cap to lessen. Which, if some of you haven’t noticed, is what has happened.

well said

I really hope the next patch includes at least some of the necessary changes. Even if they are might be too small in the end, starting to go into the right balance direction is better than nothing.

You’re all pointing fingers at the celestial amulet when it CAN’T be used for every class. Guardians/thiefs/mesmers/rangers Suck with celestial amulet while engis/eles/warriors excels with them.

Stop talking about the amulet. Talk about what these “op” classes have in common and why…

Saiyan.1704:

You’re all pointing fingers at the celestial amulet when it CAN’T be used for every class. Guardians/thiefs/mesmers/rangers Suck with celestial amulet while engis/eles/warriors excels with them.

Stop talking about the amulet. Talk about what these “op” classes have in common and why…

Just because something can’t be used for every class, doesn’t mean it isn’t too strong. That’s like saying… “Oh not every class can use Dhuumfire, therefore necros aren’t OP.” Same for Spirits, Hambow, Double Shatter, Double blasting Evasive Arcana, etc.

The amulet, combined with the runes and sigils is exactly what makes these professions OP in the current state of the meta. Both Engineer and Ele utilize these stats to the maximum potential, where as other class are falling short. If you want to run a hybrid/bruiser build, then good on you. But, a bruiser build shouldn’t reap the damage it does, as well as the sustain.

Saiyan.1704:

You’re all pointing fingers at the celestial amulet when it CAN’T be used for every class. Guardians/thiefs/mesmers/rangers Suck with celestial amulet while engis/eles/warriors excels with them.

Stop talking about the amulet. Talk about what these “op” classes have in common and why…

Furthermore, if you tell a person or group of persons to “stop” doing something in a demanding manner, nobody is going to give two kittens about what you say. They immediately close off and label you as a kitten. You may have a valid point, to bad it’s going to fall short because you believe your opinion is greater than others.

Saiyan.1704:

You’re all pointing fingers at the celestial amulet when it CAN’T be used for every class. Guardians/thiefs/mesmers/rangers Suck with celestial amulet while engis/eles/warriors excels with them.

Stop talking about the amulet. Talk about what these “op” classes have in common and why…

Celestial is arguably the best amulet for ranger as well.

They are not part of the meta for other reasons…

In my point of view, the problem here is not Celestial, is Celestial plus damage. If you have high survival you cannot have high damage, and vise-versa.

So, what about increase Sigil of Battle Might CD, or give to it a chance to trigger

DevilsGlare.7658:

Saiyan.1704:

You’re all pointing fingers at the celestial amulet when it CAN’T be used for every class. Guardians/thiefs/mesmers/rangers Suck with celestial amulet while engis/eles/warriors excels with them.

Stop talking about the amulet. Talk about what these “op” classes have in common and why…

Just because something can’t be used for every class, doesn’t mean it isn’t too strong. That’s like saying… “Oh not every class can use Dhuumfire, therefore necros aren’t OP.” Same for Spirits, Hambow, Double Shatter, Double blasting Evasive Arcana, etc.

The amulet, combined with the runes and sigils is exactly what makes these professions OP in the current state of the meta. Both Engineer and Ele utilize these stats to the maximum potential, where as other class are falling short. If you want to run a hybrid/bruiser build, then good on you. But, a bruiser build shouldn’t reap the damage it does, as well as the sustain.

That was a poor response using class specific traits not open to all classes or specs… I see it two ways no one wants to play the counters because they are not conquest meta,are afraid of TDM,most of you play zerker but conquest forces you to tank AoE which both those specs has. See the issue there even I rarely lose when using a condi spec vs them because I refuse to focus on melee damage without being tanky and it is a usable weakness I rather have glass ranged like s/f ele or a good power ranger that won’t take the AoE. Sure I am not on point but why am I 1v1 him if I’m not going to cap it’s a team match not a forbidden duel.

Before celestial it’s you, your mentality and spec you are probably glass trying to stay on point vs a AoE semi-tank….dumb I wouldn’t be surprised if nothing change about them . Reintroduced the corruption necro and fix their team sustain as well as other boon hate specs. Uses your tools and brain no need to dumb down a mistake so many of you made.

Again poor response…..

Sagat.3285:

DevilsGlare.7658:

Saiyan.1704:

You’re all pointing fingers at the celestial amulet when it CAN’T be used for every class. Guardians/thiefs/mesmers/rangers Suck with celestial amulet while engis/eles/warriors excels with them.

Stop talking about the amulet. Talk about what these “op” classes have in common and why…

Just because something can’t be used for every class, doesn’t mean it isn’t too strong. That’s like saying… “Oh not every class can use Dhuumfire, therefore necros aren’t OP.” Same for Spirits, Hambow, Double Shatter, Double blasting Evasive Arcana, etc.

The amulet, combined with the runes and sigils is exactly what makes these professions OP in the current state of the meta. Both Engineer and Ele utilize these stats to the maximum potential, where as other class are falling short. If you want to run a hybrid/bruiser build, then good on you. But, a bruiser build shouldn’t reap the damage it does, as well as the sustain.

That was a poor response using class specific traits not open to all classes or specs… I see it two ways no one wants to play the counters because they are not conquest meta,are afraid of TDM,most of you play zerker but conquest forces you to tank AoE which both those specs has. See the issue there even I rarely lose when using a condi spec vs them because I refuse to focus on melee damage without being tanky and it is a usable weakness I rather have glass ranged like s/f ele or a good power ranger that won’t take the AoE. Sure I am not on point but why am I 1v1 him if I’m not going to cap it’s a team match not a forbidden duel.

Before celestial it’s you, your mentality and spec you are probably glass trying to stay on point vs a AoE semi-tank….dumb I wouldn’t be surprised if nothing change about them . Reintroduced the corruption necro and fix their team sustain as well as other boon hate specs. Uses your tools and brain no need to dumb down a mistake so many of you made.

Again poor response…..

TL;DR.

Hey Vain, good to see you. I’m going to put up an explanation of what I believe is over-the-top and hopefully we can all come to an impasse. Bullet points help for people to pick out certain aspects of the game they can relate to and have(hopefully) an unbiased opinion. Here goes:

General/Amulets/Sigils:

Celestial/Might-stacking: This has been beaten to death but here’s my input, like Vain stated many times, just because one or a few professions can exercise this amulet incredibly well doesn’t mean it’s not strong. Bruiser-types are fine in this game but there needs to be some give, there’s no give here in combination with the ability to stack might as well as the innate ability to sustain, maintain mobility, cc as well as dmg.

Nightmare Rune: Reduce the fear duration to 1 second.

Classes:

Elementalist-

Drake’s Breath: Currently, with its short cd and incredibly long burning application(AoE), the ability to maintain constant burning needs to be dropped. Even if this was single-target, it would still last far longer than any other profession with 1 skill.

Frozen Aura: This is on a relatively long cd however its duration is a tiny bit too long. I think maybe lowering this to 5 seconds from 7 would be fair. (this goes back to the whole deal about “giving” something up and not being the master of everything).

Frozen Burst: Due to its recent buff of making it a blast-finisher, this has been an offender of the incredible amount of might elementalists can achieve on their own. Keep the blast finisher, reduce the chill duration to 2 seconds.

Updraft: There needs to be an animation/cast time attached to this. Instant-cc abilities need to go. 1/2 seems fair I would think. Reduce the cd to 30-35 to compensate.

Obsidian Flesh: This needs an invulnerability reduction. It’s on a decent cd and is instant cast. Reduce to 2 seconds.

Elemental Shielding: A reduction to 2 seconds has been suggested or changing it to apply Regeneration could also work. This would help lower the massive amount of protection access.

Elemental Attunement: Reduce the Boon duration to 3-4 from 5 seconds. In combination with going 6 into Arcane, the amount of protection/regen/swiftness uptime is 65%(not counting elemental shielding). I understand Ele’s need this access to survive and they would still have 40% across the board.

Engineer-

Incendiary Powder: Either reduce the duration or make it have a visual effect upon the next attack that would inflict burning. This would allow people to avoid it.

Magnetic Shield: Reduce the duration from 3 to 2 seconds.

Overcharged Shot: Again, instant-cced skills need to go. Give this a 1/2-3/4 cast time.

Gearshield: Increase the cd to 25-30 seconds. 20 is way too short(16 when traited is incredible)

Magnet Pull: Make this visible through stealth.

Warrior-

Combustive Shot/Cleansing Ire: This should only trigger Cleansing Ire if you hit your target with the initial shot. If you miss, it shouldn’t trigger.

Warhorn: Increase the cd’s to 20 and 25 respectively. The amount of condition-removal on-top of it’s low cd makes this off-hand a tiny bit too strong in that department.(As well as 1 being a blast finisher)

Ranger-

Hunter’s Shot: Give this a cast-time of 1/2 so it can be avoided.

Companion’s Defense: Rewarding someone for a botched dodge makes no sense(this goes for all dodging skills). Gaining protection after a dodge doesn’t punish the user but rewards them for randomly dodging. Reduce the duration or add an ICD.

Necromancer-

Reapers Protection: Add a visual effect so it can be predictable.

Guardian-

Amplified Wrath: This gives Guardian’s the hardest-hitting burns in the game with less investment towards condition damage. If they ever give Guardians access to more conditions I feel this will be too strong. Reduce the dmg to 20-25%.

These are all nerfs suggested to bring things in-line for every profession. Obviously some if not all professions need more than that but these are to help bring down the power-creep.

I’ll put up another post later on for adjustments/buffs.

DevilsGlare.7658:

Sagat.3285:

DevilsGlare.7658:

Saiyan.1704:

You’re all pointing fingers at the celestial amulet when it CAN’T be used for every class. Guardians/thiefs/mesmers/rangers Suck with celestial amulet while engis/eles/warriors excels with them.

Stop talking about the amulet. Talk about what these “op” classes have in common and why…

Just because something can’t be used for every class, doesn’t mean it isn’t too strong. That’s like saying… “Oh not every class can use Dhuumfire, therefore necros aren’t OP.” Same for Spirits, Hambow, Double Shatter, Double blasting Evasive Arcana, etc.

The amulet, combined with the runes and sigils is exactly what makes these professions OP in the current state of the meta. Both Engineer and Ele utilize these stats to the maximum potential, where as other class are falling short. If you want to run a hybrid/bruiser build, then good on you. But, a bruiser build shouldn’t reap the damage it does, as well as the sustain.

That was a poor response using class specific traits not open to all classes or specs… I see it two ways no one wants to play the counters because they are not conquest meta,are afraid of TDM,most of you play zerker but conquest forces you to tank AoE which both those specs has. See the issue there even I rarely lose when using a condi spec vs them because I refuse to focus on melee damage without being tanky and it is a usable weakness I rather have glass ranged like s/f ele or a good power ranger that won’t take the AoE. Sure I am not on point but why am I 1v1 him if I’m not going to cap it’s a team match not a forbidden duel.

Before celestial it’s you, your mentality and spec you are probably glass trying to stay on point vs a AoE semi-tank….dumb I wouldn’t be surprised if nothing change about them . Reintroduced the corruption necro and fix their team sustain as well as other boon hate specs. Uses your tools and brain no need to dumb down a mistake so many of you made.

Again poor response…..

TL;DR.

He said you listed class specific traits and that you had a very poor response and that I’m right in every way.
Yup that’s what he said yup.

Arken.3725:

Overcharged Shot: Again, instant-cced skills need to go. Give this a 1/2-3/4 cast time.

Warhorn: Increase the cd’s to 20 and 25 respectively. The amount of condition-removal on-top of it’s low cd makes this off-hand a tiny bit too strong in that department.(As well as 1 being a blast finisher)

Neither of these are good suggestions….

1) As engineer you have to buff check before using the skill. It is not a brainless skill. Besides Rangers basically have the same instant knockback without CC’ing themselves. You can argue the .5s timer on it. But still there’s no penalty for using it like OS.
2) Reducing condi removal on classes is the step in the wrong direction.

Arken.3725:

Hey Vain, good to see you. I’m going to put up an explanation of what I believe is over-the-top and hopefully we can all come to an impasse. Bullet points help for people to pick out certain aspects of the game they can relate to and have(hopefully) an unbiased opinion. Here goes:

General/Amulets/Sigils:

Celestial/Might-stacking: This has been beaten to death but here’s my input, like Vain stated many times, just because one or a few professions can exercise this amulet incredibly well doesn’t mean it’s not strong. Bruiser-types are fine in this game but there needs to be some give, there’s no give here in combination with the ability to stack might as well as the innate ability to sustain, maintain mobility, cc as well as dmg.

Nightmare Rune: Reduce the fear duration to 1 second.

Classes:

Elementalist-

Drake’s Breath: Currently, with its short cd and incredibly long burning application(AoE), the ability to maintain constant burning needs to be dropped. Even if this was single-target, it would still last far longer than any other profession with 1 skill.

Frozen Aura: This is on a relatively long cd however its duration is a tiny bit too long. I think maybe lowering this to 5 seconds from 7 would be fair. (this goes back to the whole deal about “giving” something up and not being the master of everything).

Frozen Burst: Due to its recent buff of making it a blast-finisher, this has been an offender of the incredible amount of might elementalists can achieve on their own. Keep the blast finisher, reduce the chill duration to 2 seconds.

Updraft: There needs to be an animation/cast time attached to this. Instant-cc abilities need to go. 1/2 seems fair I would think. Reduce the cd to 30-35 to compensate.

Obsidian Flesh: This needs an invulnerability reduction. It’s on a decent cd and is instant cast. Reduce to 2 seconds.

Elemental Shielding: A reduction to 2 seconds has been suggested or changing it to apply Regeneration could also work. This would help lower the massive amount of protection access.

Elemental Attunement: Reduce the Boon duration to 3-4 from 5 seconds. In combination with going 6 into Arcane, the amount of protection/regen/swiftness uptime is 65%(not counting elemental shielding). I understand Ele’s need this access to survive and they would still have 40% across the board.

Engineer-

Incendiary Powder: Either reduce the duration or make it have a visual effect upon the next attack that would inflict burning. This would allow people to avoid it.

Magnetic Shield: Reduce the duration from 3 to 2 seconds.

Overcharged Shot: Again, instant-cced skills need to go. Give this a 1/2-3/4 cast time.

Gearshield: Increase the cd to 25-30 seconds. 20 is way too short(16 when traited is incredible)

Magnet Pull: Make this visible through stealth.

Warrior-

Combustive Shot/Cleansing Ire: This should only trigger Cleansing Ire if you hit your target with the initial shot. If you miss, it shouldn’t trigger.

Warhorn: Increase the cd’s to 20 and 25 respectively. The amount of condition-removal on-top of it’s low cd makes this off-hand a tiny bit too strong in that department.(As well as 1 being a blast finisher)

Ranger-

Hunter’s Shot: Give this a cast-time of 1/2 so it can be avoided.

Companion’s Defense: Rewarding someone for a botched dodge makes no sense(this goes for all dodging skills). Gaining protection after a dodge doesn’t punish the user but rewards them for randomly dodging. Reduce the duration or add an ICD.

Necromancer-

Reapers Protection: Add a visual effect so it can be predictable.

Guardian-

Amplified Wrath: This gives Guardian’s the hardest-hitting burns in the game with less investment towards condition damage. If they ever give Guardians access to more conditions I feel this will be too strong. Reduce the dmg to 20-25%.

These are all nerfs suggested to bring things in-line for every profession. Obviously some if not all professions need more than that but these are to help bring down the power-creep.

I’ll put up another post later on for adjustments/buffs.

Nice post Arken. I agree with everything on there and looking forward to your adjustments/buffs. +1

Saiyan.1704:

DevilsGlare.7658:

Sagat.3285:

DevilsGlare.7658:

Saiyan.1704:

You’re all pointing fingers at the celestial amulet when it CAN’T be used for every class. Guardians/thiefs/mesmers/rangers Suck with celestial amulet while engis/eles/warriors excels with them.

Stop talking about the amulet. Talk about what these “op” classes have in common and why…

Just because something can’t be used for every class, doesn’t mean it isn’t too strong. That’s like saying… “Oh not every class can use Dhuumfire, therefore necros aren’t OP.” Same for Spirits, Hambow, Double Shatter, Double blasting Evasive Arcana, etc.

The amulet, combined with the runes and sigils is exactly what makes these professions OP in the current state of the meta. Both Engineer and Ele utilize these stats to the maximum potential, where as other class are falling short. If you want to run a hybrid/bruiser build, then good on you. But, a bruiser build shouldn’t reap the damage it does, as well as the sustain.

That was a poor response using class specific traits not open to all classes or specs… I see it two ways no one wants to play the counters because they are not conquest meta,are afraid of TDM,most of you play zerker but conquest forces you to tank AoE which both those specs has. See the issue there even I rarely lose when using a condi spec vs them because I refuse to focus on melee damage without being tanky and it is a usable weakness I rather have glass ranged like s/f ele or a good power ranger that won’t take the AoE. Sure I am not on point but why am I 1v1 him if I’m not going to cap it’s a team match not a forbidden duel.

Before celestial it’s you, your mentality and spec you are probably glass trying to stay on point vs a AoE semi-tank….dumb I wouldn’t be surprised if nothing change about them . Reintroduced the corruption necro and fix their team sustain as well as other boon hate specs. Uses your tools and brain no need to dumb down a mistake so many of you made.

Again poor response…..

TL;DR.

He said you listed class specific traits and that you had a very poor response and that I’m right in every way.
Yup that’s what he said yup.

Words from an ANET dev: “Celestial is too strong, and we will be looking at tweaking the current imbalances.”

You must be right in every way.

DevilsGlare.7658:

Saiyan.1704:

DevilsGlare.7658:

Sagat.3285:

DevilsGlare.7658:

Saiyan.1704:

You’re all pointing fingers at the celestial amulet when it CAN’T be used for every class. Guardians/thiefs/mesmers/rangers Suck with celestial amulet while engis/eles/warriors excels with them.

Stop talking about the amulet. Talk about what these “op” classes have in common and why…

Just because something can’t be used for every class, doesn’t mean it isn’t too strong. That’s like saying… “Oh not every class can use Dhuumfire, therefore necros aren’t OP.” Same for Spirits, Hambow, Double Shatter, Double blasting Evasive Arcana, etc.

The amulet, combined with the runes and sigils is exactly what makes these professions OP in the current state of the meta. Both Engineer and Ele utilize these stats to the maximum potential, where as other class are falling short. If you want to run a hybrid/bruiser build, then good on you. But, a bruiser build shouldn’t reap the damage it does, as well as the sustain.

That was a poor response using class specific traits not open to all classes or specs… I see it two ways no one wants to play the counters because they are not conquest meta,are afraid of TDM,most of you play zerker but conquest forces you to tank AoE which both those specs has. See the issue there even I rarely lose when using a condi spec vs them because I refuse to focus on melee damage without being tanky and it is a usable weakness I rather have glass ranged like s/f ele or a good power ranger that won’t take the AoE. Sure I am not on point but why am I 1v1 him if I’m not going to cap it’s a team match not a forbidden duel.

Before celestial it’s you, your mentality and spec you are probably glass trying to stay on point vs a AoE semi-tank….dumb I wouldn’t be surprised if nothing change about them . Reintroduced the corruption necro and fix their team sustain as well as other boon hate specs. Uses your tools and brain no need to dumb down a mistake so many of you made.

Again poor response…..

TL;DR.

He said you listed class specific traits and that you had a very poor response and that I’m right in every way.
Yup that’s what he said yup.

Words from an ANET dev: “Celestial is too strong, and we will be looking at tweaking the current imbalances.”

You must be right in every way.

Not doubting you but where did that quote come from and when?

SobeSoul.6910:

Arken.3725:

Overcharged Shot: Again, instant-cced skills need to go. Give this a 1/2-3/4 cast time.

Warhorn: Increase the cd’s to 20 and 25 respectively. The amount of condition-removal on-top of it’s low cd makes this off-hand a tiny bit too strong in that department.(As well as 1 being a blast finisher)

Neither of these are good suggestions….

1) As engineer you have to buff check before using the skill. It is not a brainless skill. Besides Rangers basically have the same instant knockback without CC’ing themselves. You can argue the .5s timer on it. But still there’s no penalty for using it like OS.
2) Reducing condi removal on classes is the step in the wrong direction.

How is #1 different for any class?

Arken.3725:

Warrior-

Combustive Shot/Cleansing Ire: This should only trigger Cleansing Ire if you hit your target with the initial shot. If you miss, it shouldn’t trigger.

Warhorn: Increase the cd’s to 20 and 25 respectively. The amount of condition-removal on-top of it’s low cd makes this off-hand a tiny bit too strong in that department.(As well as 1 being a blast finisher)

for kitten sake leave warrior alone already.
warrior has already received too many unjustified nerfs and you are asking for more?
the adrenaline nerf was already overkill!
please be reasonable!

combustive shot is fine, and has been working as intended since launch. you want to block combustive shot and cleansing ire from activating? use, activate a block and then stand at the epicenter of the combustive shot. the fire field will NEVER trigger.

both the warhorn recharge time of 15 s and 20 s are fine as it is.
it is balanced, there is NO NEED to increase the recharge time at all.

the recharge time is not low, just balanced, and the speed the conditons can be reapplied is way faster than the recharge time.

stop with these ridiculous claims already.

please. PLEASE.
JUST STOP.

thank you.

SobeSoul.6910:

Arken.3725:

Overcharged Shot: Again, instant-cced skills need to go. Give this a 1/2-3/4 cast time.

Warhorn: Increase the cd’s to 20 and 25 respectively. The amount of condition-removal on-top of it’s low cd makes this off-hand a tiny bit too strong in that department.(As well as 1 being a blast finisher)

Neither of these are good suggestions….

1) As engineer you have to buff check before using the skill. It is not a brainless skill. Besides Rangers basically have the same instant knockback without CC’ing themselves. You can argue the .5s timer on it. But still there’s no penalty for using it like OS.
2) Reducing condi removal on classes is the step in the wrong direction.

Sorry bro, i’m not budging one the 1st on because you believe it not to be mindless. It has a very short cd, is instant and does exactly what you want it to do for any ranged spec…push you back. It needs a cast-time. I’m not saying it’s completely brainless but by no means is it balanced. Oh also, your argument leads to no credibility since the ranger skill HAS a tell and cast-time.

Edit: On the 2nd, the Warrior now has more consistent condition-removal than a Guardian. Granted you don’t see the dmg output of Elementalist’s and Engineer’s, they still have the insane amount of sustain/condition removal/burst healing/mobility and Might-stacking.

Arken.3725:

SobeSoul.6910:

Arken.3725:

Overcharged Shot: Again, instant-cced skills need to go. Give this a 1/2-3/4 cast time.

Warhorn: Increase the cd’s to 20 and 25 respectively. The amount of condition-removal on-top of it’s low cd makes this off-hand a tiny bit too strong in that department.(As well as 1 being a blast finisher)

Neither of these are good suggestions….

1) As engineer you have to buff check before using the skill. It is not a brainless skill. Besides Rangers basically have the same instant knockback without CC’ing themselves. You can argue the .5s timer on it. But still there’s no penalty for using it like OS.
2) Reducing condi removal on classes is the step in the wrong direction.

Sorry bro, i’m not budging on the 1st on because you believe it not to be mindless. It has a very short cd, is instant and does exactly what you want it to do for any ranged spec…push you back. It needs a cast-time. I’m not saying it’s completely brainless but by no means is it balanced.

engineer’s overcharged shot has been working as intended since launch, there is nothing wrong with it. leave it alone.

dodge more often or get stability if you do not like being pushed around.

Arken.3725:

SobeSoul.6910:

Arken.3725:

Overcharged Shot: Again, instant-cced skills need to go. Give this a 1/2-3/4 cast time.

Warhorn: Increase the cd’s to 20 and 25 respectively. The amount of condition-removal on-top of it’s low cd makes this off-hand a tiny bit too strong in that department.(As well as 1 being a blast finisher)

Neither of these are good suggestions….

1) As engineer you have to buff check before using the skill. It is not a brainless skill. Besides Rangers basically have the same instant knockback without CC’ing themselves. You can argue the .5s timer on it. But still there’s no penalty for using it like OS.
2) Reducing condi removal on classes is the step in the wrong direction.

Edit: On the 2nd, the Warrior now has more consistent condition-removal than a Guardian. Granted you don’t see the dmg output of Elementalist’s and Engineer’s, they still have the insane amount of sustain/condition removal/burst healing/mobility and Might-stacking.

that is working as intended as well.

warriors do not
pew pew like rangers
enter stealth easily like thieves
play sumo wrestling like engineers
dances with clones
have a pack of spirits / undead minions following around
etc

warriors are supposed to have reasonable sustain / condition removal / mobility / might stacking if they build for it.

stop asking for unreasonable nerfs already.

and why i dun see you making nerf requests for thieves?

What really hurts is everyone thinks they are good using a build off a website!

I lost more matches on my Guard recently than I am winning due to people using these builds and sucking.

I then talk in map chat and if gets into another meta vs non meta fight and people saying I’m the problem to why I’m losing when i know for a fact its my team and not me. As I even were winning on my own custom builds on my engi only to lose the lead 500 to 400 or worse because someone else drops the ball when i have been carrying and leading every kitten game!

I am smarter than the meta and it really sucks that everyone targets me with name calling and kitten saying in the noob and scrub.

Who’s better? A player that knows his or her classes more in pve and pvp for 2 years and just started in pvp or a person copying off a website just because they were told it works and doesn’t know any better?

If you ant to not resort to petty name calling and circular arguments and rather want to help a new and rather disgruntled pvper, you know where to find me.