Guild Wars 2

I may turn this into a counter comp to any comp thread but I doubt it.
I am making this as I’ve had received 3 whispers asking it, and I know people have been speculating in other threads.

Whats the counter to a bunker ( in apex’s case high support no squish-ies) comp?

Come on guys it just got nerfed last patch but isnt affected by apex’s comp….

think about it…

Decap engi.

Lets clarify at the old build first.
0/0/1/6/6 NO TURRETS AT ALL. I don’t want to hear about it its crap.

The nerf to decap engi was condi immunity. Huge nerf. Perfect in fact as 95 percent of comps ( I guessed at percentage) run a condi necro/engi/or a thief. All of which can 1v1 decap engi
————————————————————————————————————-

Ranger cannot 1v1 decap engi
warriors cannot 1v1 engi
guardian cant.

Hmm no one on apex can counter decap engi solo….

Now do not take this the wrong way. I am not endorcing running decap engi.
I am simply pointing out comp>comp in a similar skill basis.

Don’t start copying their meta comp learn your own. Its better to have a 5 man team that mains each professions than create some new one where your in-experienced.

Skill and comp is why you can’t win vs something else. Stop complaining about cheese/bugs everyone runs bugs/cheese.

Also don’t copy the meta. Learn from it but never copy.

Jindavikk, Elephantitas, Thelonious.

Ps. since I saw alot of hate,calling out, kitten from the other apex thread don’t come in here and say I am calling anyone out. I am not. I am simply pointing out A counter. Not the only one but most likely the easiest and most effective.

I was asking all day why nobody was running decap engie when “the Apex comp” had absolutely nobody that could answer it (no condi-heavy class, no thief). That is on top of other rotational solutions to such a comp, that others have mentioned.

I think decap engie is a GOOD thing in its current iteration. It counters “bunker” comps hard, but has its own counters. It keeps teams honest, if people would run it. If teams run decap engie to counter a team with very little dps, it forces people to play more dps/condis, which makes them more susceptible to other comps. A team that normally had a decap engie could be easily dealt with by just sticking a thief/necro/condi engie to babysit and shut down that engie. Thus, counter-comps can balance the meta.

Having a simple solution to a comp people think is “cheese” is a great thing.

In this case, maybe teams just couldn’t come up with it right away, or didn’t have a player who could play decap engi well enough, so they just stuck to their guns. That is what happens when you have a tournament fairly shortly after a patch and someone finds the new big thing right before, teams who aren’t playing all the time just don’t adapt fast enough.

KPz has the better comp. APeX just executed better. I don’t think a decap engi could handle Axe/Sword | Longbow. Too much burning, torment and bleed on top of eviscerate.

JinDaVikk.7291:

Also don’t copy the meta. Learn from it but never copy.

Good call on the counter-comp. If people could learn this simple principle, skill levels in GW2 would skyrocket.

Although I do agree that axe-sword/longbow would be a significant threat to a decap engi. The engi would have to out-play.

Shockwave.1230:

KPz has the better comp. APeX just executed better. I don’t think a decap engi could handle Axe/Sword | Longbow. Too much burning, torment and bleed on top of eviscerate.

Yeap. I can testify to the fact that all a Warrior has to do is constantly get you standing in the AoE burning field and he doesn’t need to actually hit you to kill you. Especially if you’re an engie.

Everything has, and should have, a counter.
We hope people find it so we can adapt and create some interesting counter play.

If you think about it in terms of other successful eSports games, we’ll take the MOBA genre as an example, no team limits themselves to one particular set. As the compositions are chosen and champions are selected, counters emerge and it creates an interesting sort of sub-game based on the ideology of what the Japanese call “yomi”.

I want nothing more than for this community to realize that ‘meta gameplay’ is not based upon one single composition. What we did, and have done for even months prior to the tournament, worked so well because it, in a roundabout fashion, countered what everybody considered to be ‘the meta’. The typical team setup focuses on winning 1v1’s at far and spreading condition pressure throughout the middle and home nodes with one or two burst roamers. We countered this by putting in a talented player on a spec that can win virtually any duel to watch that single/double players’ pressure at our home point. We then focused on creating situations where we have the upper hand on the other 2 nodes. With the support roles in the game that for whatever reason people did not see or are too afraid to touch because it isn’t an allstar AP/AD carry type role, we took full advantage.

Our teamfights are hard to beat because we have a plethora of perfectly executed support and any situation we were not prepared for can easily be resolved by a quick rotation from one of the players as, with our comp, there is enough sustainability through hours of practicing mechanics in both 1v1 and 1v2 situations for a rotation to be communicated and executed in time to save that player and win the point.

It is not overpowered. There are counters. Threads like this make me very happy and I hope a good discussion will be had here regarding how to beat certain compositions.

Remember: there is no best way to do things. Your favorite thing to watch may be some bursty mobile stuff, and don’t get me wrong, we enjoy that too and even play it quite often, but what it comes down to at the end of the day is that ‘W’ next to your name in the tournament bracket. If this was a League tournament and you picked 3 AD’s and 2 AP’s for a match, you shouldn’t really blame the team that rolled 1 AP, 1 AD, 1 Tank, 1 Support and a roaming Bruiser and beat you, especially when they’re just playing their favorite professions they’ve played since Beta weekend to begin with.

Best of luck to everyone going forward and I hope you give us hell in the future.

Regards,
Heurix – Apex Prime Leader

This sort of thinking can only improve the quality of matches. I love Guild Wars 2 pvp because it allows for this kind of “game planning” and adjustments between each game of a set. I hope to see teams trying to out scheme each other, much like in real sports. Personally, I think the decap engy may be a counter to Apex. Tho I’d love to hear Apex’s thoughts on that :P. If you add a decap engy to KPz’s comp tho, what would you drop?

Thanks for the constructive thread guys but I can safely say axe/sword longbow CAN but in very very unlikely to kill any decent decap engi.
In my case ( as I know warrior) I won’t be killed by it.

Someone mentioned standing in the firefield…. why. Why would a decap engi stand in it? Once he has decap he can stay off point for 1 full firefield. Then the warrior ( minus zerker stance) will have 0 adren.

Basically save the block for only for pindown’d, dodge the evis ( quite ez) and stand off point if they make the mistake for longbow f1 and they’re damage output will severely drop. besides they only have 1 stability ( no lyssa anymore)..

Thanks guys for the nice replies!

JinDaVikk.7291:

Thanks for the constructive thread guys but I can safely say axe/sword longbow CAN but in very very unlikely to kill any decent decap engi.
In my case ( as I know warrior) I won’t be killed by it.

Someone mentioned standing in the firefield…. why. Why would a decap engi stand in it? Once he has decap he can stay off point for 1 full firefield. Then the warrior ( minus zerker stance) will have 0 adren.

Basically save the block for only for pindown’d, dodge the evis ( quite ez) and stand off point if they make the mistake for longbow f1 and they’re damage output will severely drop. besides they only have 1 stability ( no lyssa anymore)..

Thanks guys for the nice replies!

The Decap Engie can be outplayed but I do see the potential in it when it is played well.

My main belief though, is that any class with the proper amount of reflects can render most of their damage useless.

SgtJanitor.3164:

Everything has, and should have, a counter.
We hope people find it so we can adapt and create some interesting counter play.

If you think about it in terms of other successful eSports games, we’ll take the MOBA genre as an example, no team limits themselves to one particular set. As the compositions are chosen and champions are selected, counters emerge and it creates an interesting sort of sub-game based on the ideology of what the Japanese call “yomi”.

Get on mah Yomi level Heurix! Hehe love saying that.

It’s doable.

Apex isn’t brain dead enough to lose to a decap engie. They will adjust their build and just wreck that too. This isn’t a simple issue.

ryan is right, this issue isn’t going to be fixed by reintroducing a single build. there are many things that need to be considered and warrior, as always, is the standout here.

apex doesn’t run two warriors for no reason.

xantosnightwish.5438:

This sort of thinking can only improve the quality of matches. I love Guild Wars 2 pvp because it allows for this kind of “game planning” and adjustments between each game of a set. I hope to see teams trying to out scheme each other, much like in real sports. Personally, I think the decap engy may be a counter to Apex. Tho I’d love to hear Apex’s thoughts on that :P. If you add a decap engy to KPz’s comp tho, what would you drop?

Decap engi can go either way to be honest. The decap engi simply will not have the damage output to singlehandedly take out Chubbs Z / Day 1v1. There is far too much condi clear, burst heal and impromptu repositions / low cd stun breakers in the build for it to be taken down without mechanical errors on the elementalist’s part or a pretty kitten talented engineer.
The decap engi would thrive in the 1v1, but the point of the APeX comp is not “1v1s”. In the end, a rotation would be called after all personal sustain on that point has been relinquished and, without reliable stability, that engi would, in most cases, be trained down unfortunately.

A decap engi could, however, be an interesting beginning to an approach of several changes that could potentially counter this composition. I implore everyone to queue up and try new things to find what works best for them! As I stated before, there is a counter to everything, you just have to be willing to find it.

Regards,
Heurix – APeX Prime Leader

SgtJanitor.3164:

xantosnightwish.5438:

This sort of thinking can only improve the quality of matches. I love Guild Wars 2 pvp because it allows for this kind of “game planning” and adjustments between each game of a set. I hope to see teams trying to out scheme each other, much like in real sports. Personally, I think the decap engy may be a counter to Apex. Tho I’d love to hear Apex’s thoughts on that :P. If you add a decap engy to KPz’s comp tho, what would you drop?

Decap engi can go either way to be honest. The decap engi simply will not have the damage output to singlehandedly take out Chubbs Z / Day 1v1. There is far too much condi clear, burst heal and impromptu repositions / low cd stun breakers in the build for it to be taken down without mechanical errors on the elementalist’s part or a pretty kitten talented engineer.
The decap engi would thrive in the 1v1, but the point of the APeX comp is not “1v1s”. In the end, a rotation would be called after all personal sustain on that point has been relinquished and, without reliable stability, that engi would, in most cases, be trained down unfortunately.

A decap engi could, however, be an interesting beginning to an approach of several changes that could potentially counter this composition. I implore everyone to queue up and try new things to find what works best for them! As I stated before, there is a counter to everything, you just have to be willing to find it.

Regards,
Heurix – APeX Prime Leader

Err…the point of a decap engi wouldn’t be to kill chubbs, it would be to toss him off point until the engi full capped the point, which would be pretty easy to do…. however, apex could just outfit a warrior capable of killing a decap engi 1v1 on node with lots of stability…

Hello frands! Vee Wee here #1 Engi NA and world first rank 80!

The true counter to Apex is team Carried By Vee Wee [JK]. Unfortunately certain people refused us entry into the tournament and so congratulations Apex for winning NA ToL! Hopefully the next ToL won’t be shoddily run!

Wahoo! Bye frands!

infantrydiv.1620:

SgtJanitor.3164:

xantosnightwish.5438:

This sort of thinking can only improve the quality of matches. I love Guild Wars 2 pvp because it allows for this kind of “game planning” and adjustments between each game of a set. I hope to see teams trying to out scheme each other, much like in real sports. Personally, I think the decap engy may be a counter to Apex. Tho I’d love to hear Apex’s thoughts on that :P. If you add a decap engy to KPz’s comp tho, what would you drop?

Decap engi can go either way to be honest. The decap engi simply will not have the damage output to singlehandedly take out Chubbs Z / Day 1v1. There is far too much condi clear, burst heal and impromptu repositions / low cd stun breakers in the build for it to be taken down without mechanical errors on the elementalist’s part or a pretty kitten talented engineer.
The decap engi would thrive in the 1v1, but the point of the APeX comp is not “1v1s”. In the end, a rotation would be called after all personal sustain on that point has been relinquished and, without reliable stability, that engi would, in most cases, be trained down unfortunately.

A decap engi could, however, be an interesting beginning to an approach of several changes that could potentially counter this composition. I implore everyone to queue up and try new things to find what works best for them! As I stated before, there is a counter to everything, you just have to be willing to find it.

Regards,
Heurix – APeX Prime Leader

Err…the point of a decap engi wouldn’t be to kill chubbs, it would be to toss him off point until the engi full capped the point, which would be pretty easy to do…. however, apex could just outfit a warrior capable of killing a decap engi 1v1 on node with lots of stability…

That’s true, but as I stated, with “burst heal and impromptu repositions / low cd stun breakers”, you aren’t really going to be knocking that build off node any more than he knocks himself off in any other matchup.
But even disregarding Chubbs, there are many ways to counter that decap engi without changing the comp we are already running at all.

How to counter a wuss comp? That’s easy friends play like a wuss and run a decap, but tbh that comp it’s not unbeatable, they’re healing eachother blasting with the ele’s water field. If you can’t shutdown/ kill the ele, then your chances of beating them will be greatly reduced.

ArrDee.2573:

Hello frands! Vee Wee here #1 Engi NA and world first rank 80!

The true counter to Apex is team Carried By Vee Wee [JK]. Unfortunately certain people refused us entry into the tournament and so congratulations Apex for winning NA ToL! Hopefully the next ToL won’t be shoddily run!

Wahoo! Bye frands!

Wahoo! Farewell!

mesmer with portal who knows how to use it properly.

KPZ was close to a counter because they had a thief. But I think a better counter to Apex’s comp would be 2 thieves with 3 total CC bunkers. Something like:

1 banner bunker regen hammer mace shield warrior with battle standard
1 cleric support guardian with staff and hammer
1 full support staff ele
2 trickery thieves

2 Trickery thieves synergizes very well with all those CC’s because one can steal stability while the other can still be ready to steal it again / interrupt a heal if the person used a stun break. And the CC’s are everywhere with warrior hammer mace and shield guardian hammer 3/4/5 and staff 5, and ele earth 4/5 air 3/5 and water 4.

The synergy is even stronger when you consider that everyone on the entire team has low CD blast finishers for might, healing, and retaliation.

And with battle standard, ele glyph, 2 shadow refuge, and so much insane CCs, it’s going to be extremely hard to get stomps or rezzes against this comp.

It would still take a talented group of players to make it work well but honestly not THAT much. It would really just be a matter of coordinating CC+trickery bursts, fields+blasts, and abusing mobility of 2 thieves to stay 1 step ahead in rotations.

Simple answer. Because Engi as a class is inherently weak vs. CC Warrior builds at the highest form of play; its always been a hard match-up for Engi to go against a Warrior.

Do I seriously have to explain in detail? Like seriously? Just try using an Engi against any of the good Warriors, tell me how it feels like. I’m not talking about casual vs. casual, I’m talking about Pro vs. Pro.

NevirSayDie.6235:

JinDaVikk.7291:

Also don’t copy the meta. Learn from it but never copy.

Good call on the counter-comp. If people could learn this simple principle, skill levels in GW2 would skyrocket.

Although I do agree that axe-sword/longbow would be a significant threat to a decap engi. The engi would have to out-play.

We tested this extensively when Steamhawke first began the decap engi. We found that the only way a/s lb would beat decap engi was through the block bug (which wrecked the decap engi). But since the patch to the block bug, it is quite feasible for decap engi to handle this type of warrior. Granted, you probably can’t eat every guaranteed crit eviscerates either.

Eurantien.4632:

We tested this extensively when Steamhawke first began the decap engi. We found that the only way a/s lb would beat decap engi was through the block bug (which wrecked the decap engi). But since the patch to the block bug, it is quite feasible for decap engi to handle this type of warrior. Granted, you probably can’t eat every guaranteed crit eviscerates either.

Thanks, good to know. I’ve been away from the game for a bit so I’ve only dueled against an a/s lb build a few times (and never as a decap engi). I probably overestimated it considerably.