Guild Wars 2

Lighter.5631:

hooma.9642:

BurrTheKing.8571:

hooma.9642:

BurrTheKing.8571:

hooma.9642:

BurrTheKing.8571:

hooma.9642:

BurrTheKing.8571:

Arheundel.6451:

zone.1073:

The reality about healing signet is that many other classes have had this same effect for a long time, through Regeneration. All the engineers and elementalists who have 100% regeneration uptime are achieving the same sustain effect within their own class. Thieves have a version of this through their healing and condition removal from stealth. Same goes with guardians and their constant AoE healing.

The concept of healing signet’s sustain is nothing new. It’s new to warriors, but it has been done already. Why the shock and awe about warriors having this mechanic now is silly.

Stop your non-sense..you compare regeneration to the warrior healing signet?…Are you mad?
I should have like 2000 pts in healing power to match the passive healing of the signet.

Healing signet = 400 HP for sec
Regeneration = 130 +0.125 * Healing Power.

Same error that Arc made, you are comparing healing directly without taking other class mechanics into account. There are dozens of other things to consider such as: Evades, blinds, blocks, invuln, protection, stealth, clones, the list goes on. Warrior healing is the way it is because it lacks most of these other mechanics in any significant capacity.

i would suggest stop playing warrior and pick any non-fotm class and a good or decent build for them. then go soloq or teamq or whatever u like and see how it is to play against wars or team with > 2 wars and every war has 1-2 stuns on low cooldown, berzerker, healsig.

at some point u will notice u need 1000x skill to win against the war then he would need if you arent a mesmer or thief with teleports. all others class need to keep distance to win and even then its not easy as it sounds if the enemy know how to play.

I dabble with Engi and Guardian but don’t enjoy the playstlye as much, but I always make sure to bring along some sort of countermeasure. Just having Protection Injection greatly reduces the damage you take when you do get stunned.

Every high ranking team I’ve faced in TPvP doesn’t seem to have issues with lockdown Warriors because they make sure to account for it, something many SPvP/Solo players don’t do.

oh so u realize that its op at a certain level of skill? thx for the clarification, now devs could u please nerf that kitten?

I said no such thing, I said that the players in SPvP and TPvP are too stuck in their ways to try to counter anything. Up until now the meta has always been about being the thing to counter, not about countering.

its the same like bullsrush, haste + hundred blades. so it needs a nerf, it doesnt matter if some teams have no problems with it or not. the amount of posts should be a clear indicator of how broken the build is to a certain level of skill. risk/reward is not equal enough. i dont see any reason to defend that cheese.

If you had problems with Bulls + Frenzy + 100b then we have nothing to talk about balance wise.

u seem to has some really strange problems. i doesnt say i had problems with that. just as clarification. actual guys like u are the reason for this meta and the leaving players. u refuse to adjust a clear op class only because u has no problems with it. u just cant accept the viewpoint of other players.

nice changing topic there, bull frenzy 100b opppp,lol

school over? its the same topic. its all about level of skill and the impact of certain skills in different level. the amount of skill needed to play this build vs amount of skill to beat. sad ppl like u and burrking doesnt see it and accept it and try to defend clear cheese.

I can not believe people are still talking about warriors. Ok, it sucks to face one. But who cares. Only a hand full of people actually play the class to its fullness. Others are just tryhards looking for the most OP class to play at the time.

hooma.9642:

Lighter.5631:

hooma.9642:

BurrTheKing.8571:

hooma.9642:

BurrTheKing.8571:

hooma.9642:

BurrTheKing.8571:

hooma.9642:

BurrTheKing.8571:

Arheundel.6451:

zone.1073:

The reality about healing signet is that many other classes have had this same effect for a long time, through Regeneration. All the engineers and elementalists who have 100% regeneration uptime are achieving the same sustain effect within their own class. Thieves have a version of this through their healing and condition removal from stealth. Same goes with guardians and their constant AoE healing.

The concept of healing signet’s sustain is nothing new. It’s new to warriors, but it has been done already. Why the shock and awe about warriors having this mechanic now is silly.

Stop your non-sense..you compare regeneration to the warrior healing signet?…Are you mad?
I should have like 2000 pts in healing power to match the passive healing of the signet.

Healing signet = 400 HP for sec
Regeneration = 130 +0.125 * Healing Power.

Same error that Arc made, you are comparing healing directly without taking other class mechanics into account. There are dozens of other things to consider such as: Evades, blinds, blocks, invuln, protection, stealth, clones, the list goes on. Warrior healing is the way it is because it lacks most of these other mechanics in any significant capacity.

i would suggest stop playing warrior and pick any non-fotm class and a good or decent build for them. then go soloq or teamq or whatever u like and see how it is to play against wars or team with > 2 wars and every war has 1-2 stuns on low cooldown, berzerker, healsig.

at some point u will notice u need 1000x skill to win against the war then he would need if you arent a mesmer or thief with teleports. all others class need to keep distance to win and even then its not easy as it sounds if the enemy know how to play.

I dabble with Engi and Guardian but don’t enjoy the playstlye as much, but I always make sure to bring along some sort of countermeasure. Just having Protection Injection greatly reduces the damage you take when you do get stunned.

Every high ranking team I’ve faced in TPvP doesn’t seem to have issues with lockdown Warriors because they make sure to account for it, something many SPvP/Solo players don’t do.

oh so u realize that its op at a certain level of skill? thx for the clarification, now devs could u please nerf that kitten?

I said no such thing, I said that the players in SPvP and TPvP are too stuck in their ways to try to counter anything. Up until now the meta has always been about being the thing to counter, not about countering.

its the same like bullsrush, haste + hundred blades. so it needs a nerf, it doesnt matter if some teams have no problems with it or not. the amount of posts should be a clear indicator of how broken the build is to a certain level of skill. risk/reward is not equal enough. i dont see any reason to defend that cheese.

If you had problems with Bulls + Frenzy + 100b then we have nothing to talk about balance wise.

u seem to has some really strange problems. i doesnt say i had problems with that. just as clarification. actual guys like u are the reason for this meta and the leaving players. u refuse to adjust a clear op class only because u has no problems with it. u just cant accept the viewpoint of other players.

nice changing topic there, bull frenzy 100b opppp,lol

school over? its the same topic. its all about level of skill and the impact of certain skills in different level. the amount of skill needed to play this build vs amount of skill to beat. sad ppl like u burrking doesnt see it and accept it and try to defend clear cheese.

How is this same topic, you talked about how bull frenzy 100b is broken then suddenly you attacked him in person and it has nothing to do with bullfrenzy100b.

And?! you just said that bullcharge frenzy 100b needed a nerf no matter if its balanced or easy to counter or anything, just because there’s tons of noobs(without any clue) qqing over the forum they should be nerfed to the ground and they are broken as hell? what kind of logic is that.

Lighter.5631:

thats the whole point of it…and what are you trying to say exactly.

There are counters to other forms of healing – activated heals can be mitgated by poison and interrupted, regen can be poisoned, stolen or stripped. Healing signet and Adrenal health are highly resilient to poison thanks to Cleansing Ire, and can’t be interrupted/stripped in any manner.

Burr tries to downplay the power of AH, but it’s nothing to scoff at – the second tier healing of AH is roughly 20% weaker (IIRC) than shadow Rejuvenation, a grand master trait that requires being in stealth (Not doing any damage, not contesting points) to access – that just happens every 3 seconds for a warrior. I’m not claiming it’s broken, but Burr is trying pretty hard to downplay how powerful it is for a 15 point minor trait.

Lighter.5631:

hooma.9642:

Lighter.5631:

hooma.9642:

BurrTheKing.8571:

hooma.9642:

BurrTheKing.8571:

hooma.9642:

BurrTheKing.8571:

hooma.9642:

BurrTheKing.8571:

Arheundel.6451:

zone.1073:

….

Stop your non-sense..you compare regeneration to the warrior healing signet?…Are you mad?
I should have like 2000 pts in healing power to match the passive healing of the signet.

Healing signet = 400 HP for sec
Regeneration = 130 +0.125 * Healing Power.

Same error that Arc made, you are comparing healing directly without taking other class mechanics into account. There are dozens of other things to consider such as: Evades, blinds, blocks, invuln, protection, stealth, clones, the list goes on. Warrior healing is the way it is because it lacks most of these other mechanics in any significant capacity.

i would suggest stop playing warrior and pick any non-fotm class and a good or decent build for them. then go soloq or teamq or whatever u like and see how it is to play against wars or team with > 2 wars and every war has 1-2 stuns on low cooldown, berzerker, healsig.

at some point u will notice u need 1000x skill to win against the war then he would need if you arent a mesmer or thief with teleports. all others class need to keep distance to win and even then its not easy as it sounds if the enemy know how to play.

I dabble with Engi and Guardian but don’t enjoy the playstlye as much, but I always make sure to bring along some sort of countermeasure. Just having Protection Injection greatly reduces the damage you take when you do get stunned.

Every high ranking team I’ve faced in TPvP doesn’t seem to have issues with lockdown Warriors because they make sure to account for it, something many SPvP/Solo players don’t do.

oh so u realize that its op at a certain level of skill? thx for the clarification, now devs could u please nerf that kitten?

I said no such thing, I said that the players in SPvP and TPvP are too stuck in their ways to try to counter anything. Up until now the meta has always been about being the thing to counter, not about countering.

its the same like bullsrush, haste + hundred blades. so it needs a nerf, it doesnt matter if some teams have no problems with it or not. the amount of posts should be a clear indicator of how broken the build is to a certain level of skill. risk/reward is not equal enough. i dont see any reason to defend that cheese.

If you had problems with Bulls + Frenzy + 100b then we have nothing to talk about balance wise.

u seem to has some really strange problems. i doesnt say i had problems with that. just as clarification. actual guys like u are the reason for this meta and the leaving players. u refuse to adjust a clear op class only because u has no problems with it. u just cant accept the viewpoint of other players.

nice changing topic there, bull frenzy 100b opppp,lol

school over? its the same topic. its all about level of skill and the impact of certain skills in different level. the amount of skill needed to play this build vs amount of skill to beat. sad ppl like u burrking doesnt see it and accept it and try to defend clear cheese.

How is this same topic, you talked about how bull frenzy 100b is broken then suddenly you attacked him in person and it has nothing to do with bullfrenzy100b.

And?! you just said that bullcharge frenzy 100b needed a nerf no matter if its balanced or easy to counter or anything, just because there’s tons of noobs(without any clue) qqing over the forum they should be nerfed to the ground and they are broken as hell? what kind of logic is that.

it has a lot todo with 100b. bull+100b was nothing a newb was complaining about. but adding haste was clearly close the timeframe to react. a top player had never problems with 100b, but that doesnt changed the fact that combo was cheese and hard to avoid if u hasnt seen the war coming. so it got adjusted for the base.

this topic is the same. the forumthreads clearly show that this build is to strong, ppl can compete with this build with higher skilled players and dont risk enough for the reward. what some top players do has nothing to do with it.

but actual u are right. i stop the discussion now, u both can only think in black and white not realizing the world is colorful. i think u will notice that in the future the devs will shave this build slowly. that should be an indicator how wrong u both are.

evilapprentice.6379:

Lighter.5631:

thats the whole point of it…and what are you trying to say exactly.

There are counters to other forms of healing – activated heals can be mitgated by poison and interrupted, regen can be poisoned, stolen or stripped. Healing signet and Adrenal health are highly resilient to poison thanks to Cleansing Ire, and can’t be interrupted/stripped in any manner.

Burger tries to downplay the power of AH, but it’s nothing to scoff at – the second tier healing of AH is roughly 20% weaker (IIRC) than shadow Rejuvenation, a grand master trait that requires being in stealth (Not doing any damage, not contesting points) to access – that just happens every 3 seconds for a warrior. I’m not claiming it’s broken, but Burger is trying pretty hard to downplay how powerful it is for a 15 point minor trait.

That’s the whole point of it, don’t you get it? thats why they aren’t made of boon.
as of poison, poison is most likely the last thing to clean on your condi bar, and as a warrior, if you use your f1, you will probably get 2 condis off you every 8 seconds at max.
but what about the 8 seconds when f1 is on CD? not to mention rangers thief necro engi can apply constant poison and poison field.

and how is AH roughly 20% weaker then SR? AH heals 120 per sec at max and if you are actually using F1 skills, most of the time you will have 1 lvl of adre or 2 lvl but not for long because you are about to use f1 again. thats 41 per sec most of the time and 80 per sec.
and SR does 293 per sec.

@evilapprentice
i would suggest let them both live in theyre world. they arent open for constructive discussions. they try to defend a build by picking single skills and argue with them.

hooma.9642:

Lighter.5631:

hooma.9642:

Lighter.5631:

hooma.9642:

BurrTheKing.8571:

hooma.9642:

BurrTheKing.8571:

hooma.9642:

BurrTheKing.8571:

hooma.9642:

BurrTheKing.8571:

Arheundel.6451:

zone.1073:

….

Stop your non-sense..you compare regeneration to the warrior healing signet?…Are you mad?
I should have like 2000 pts in healing power to match the passive healing of the signet.

Healing signet = 400 HP for sec
Regeneration = 130 +0.125 * Healing Power.

Same error that Arc made, you are comparing healing directly without taking other class mechanics into account. There are dozens of other things to consider such as: Evades, blinds, blocks, invuln, protection, stealth, clones, the list goes on. Warrior healing is the way it is because it lacks most of these other mechanics in any significant capacity.

i would suggest stop playing warrior and pick any non-fotm class and a good or decent build for them. then go soloq or teamq or whatever u like and see how it is to play against wars or team with > 2 wars and every war has 1-2 stuns on low cooldown, berzerker, healsig.

at some point u will notice u need 1000x skill to win against the war then he would need if you arent a mesmer or thief with teleports. all others class need to keep distance to win and even then its not easy as it sounds if the enemy know how to play.

I dabble with Engi and Guardian but don’t enjoy the playstlye as much, but I always make sure to bring along some sort of countermeasure. Just having Protection Injection greatly reduces the damage you take when you do get stunned.

Every high ranking team I’ve faced in TPvP doesn’t seem to have issues with lockdown Warriors because they make sure to account for it, something many SPvP/Solo players don’t do.

oh so u realize that its op at a certain level of skill? thx for the clarification, now devs could u please nerf that kitten?

I said no such thing, I said that the players in SPvP and TPvP are too stuck in their ways to try to counter anything. Up until now the meta has always been about being the thing to counter, not about countering.

its the same like bullsrush, haste + hundred blades. so it needs a nerf, it doesnt matter if some teams have no problems with it or not. the amount of posts should be a clear indicator of how broken the build is to a certain level of skill. risk/reward is not equal enough. i dont see any reason to defend that cheese.

If you had problems with Bulls + Frenzy + 100b then we have nothing to talk about balance wise.

u seem to has some really strange problems. i doesnt say i had problems with that. just as clarification. actual guys like u are the reason for this meta and the leaving players. u refuse to adjust a clear op class only because u has no problems with it. u just cant accept the viewpoint of other players.

nice changing topic there, bull frenzy 100b opppp,lol

school over? its the same topic. its all about level of skill and the impact of certain skills in different level. the amount of skill needed to play this build vs amount of skill to beat. sad ppl like u burrking doesnt see it and accept it and try to defend clear cheese.

How is this same topic, you talked about how bull frenzy 100b is broken then suddenly you attacked him in person and it has nothing to do with bullfrenzy100b.

And?! you just said that bullcharge frenzy 100b needed a nerf no matter if its balanced or easy to counter or anything, just because there’s tons of noobs(without any clue) qqing over the forum they should be nerfed to the ground and they are broken as hell? what kind of logic is that.

it has a lot todo with 100b. bull+100b was nothing a newb was complaining about. but adding haste was clearly close the timeframe to react. a top player had never problems with 100b, but that doesnt changed the fact that combo was cheese and hard to avoid if u hasnt seen the war coming. so it got adjusted for the base.

this topic is the same. the forumthreads clearly show that this build is to strong, ppl can compete with this build with higher skilled players and dont risk enough for the reward. what some top players do has nothing to do with it.

but actual u are right. i stop the discussion now, u both can only think in black and white not realizing the world is colorful. i think u will notice that in the future the devs will shave this build slowly. that should be an indicator how wrong u both are.

thing is i never talked about the build being op or not when i was responding to you, only how flawed your logic is and there’s no argument in there but personal attacks.

Lighter.5631:

hooma.9642:

Lighter.5631:

hooma.9642:

Lighter.5631:

hooma.9642:

BurrTheKing.8571:

hooma.9642:

BurrTheKing.8571:

hooma.9642:

BurrTheKing.8571:

hooma.9642:

BurrTheKing.8571:

Arheundel.6451:

zone.1073:

….

…

Same error that Arc made, you are comparing healing directly without taking other class mechanics into account. There are dozens of other things to consider such as: Evades, blinds, blocks, invuln, protection, stealth, clones, the list goes on. Warrior healing is the way it is because it lacks most of these other mechanics in any significant capacity.

i would suggest stop playing warrior and pick any non-fotm class and a good or decent build for them. then go soloq or teamq or whatever u like and see how it is to play against wars or team with > 2 wars and every war has 1-2 stuns on low cooldown, berzerker, healsig.

at some point u will notice u need 1000x skill to win against the war then he would need if you arent a mesmer or thief with teleports. all others class need to keep distance to win and even then its not easy as it sounds if the enemy know how to play.

I dabble with Engi and Guardian but don’t enjoy the playstlye as much, but I always make sure to bring along some sort of countermeasure. Just having Protection Injection greatly reduces the damage you take when you do get stunned.

Every high ranking team I’ve faced in TPvP doesn’t seem to have issues with lockdown Warriors because they make sure to account for it, something many SPvP/Solo players don’t do.

oh so u realize that its op at a certain level of skill? thx for the clarification, now devs could u please nerf that kitten?

I said no such thing, I said that the players in SPvP and TPvP are too stuck in their ways to try to counter anything. Up until now the meta has always been about being the thing to counter, not about countering.

its the same like bullsrush, haste + hundred blades. so it needs a nerf, it doesnt matter if some teams have no problems with it or not. the amount of posts should be a clear indicator of how broken the build is to a certain level of skill. risk/reward is not equal enough. i dont see any reason to defend that cheese.

If you had problems with Bulls + Frenzy + 100b then we have nothing to talk about balance wise.

u seem to has some really strange problems. i doesnt say i had problems with that. just as clarification. actual guys like u are the reason for this meta and the leaving players. u refuse to adjust a clear op class only because u has no problems with it. u just cant accept the viewpoint of other players.

nice changing topic there, bull frenzy 100b opppp,lol

school over? its the same topic. its all about level of skill and the impact of certain skills in different level. the amount of skill needed to play this build vs amount of skill to beat. sad ppl like u burrking doesnt see it and accept it and try to defend clear cheese.

How is this same topic, you talked about how bull frenzy 100b is broken then suddenly you attacked him in person and it has nothing to do with bullfrenzy100b.

And?! you just said that bullcharge frenzy 100b needed a nerf no matter if its balanced or easy to counter or anything, just because there’s tons of noobs(without any clue) qqing over the forum they should be nerfed to the ground and they are broken as hell? what kind of logic is that.

it has a lot todo with 100b. bull+100b was nothing a newb was complaining about. but adding haste was clearly close the timeframe to react. a top player had never problems with 100b, but that doesnt changed the fact that combo was cheese and hard to avoid if u hasnt seen the war coming. so it got adjusted for the base.

this topic is the same. the forumthreads clearly show that this build is to strong, ppl can compete with this build with higher skilled players and dont risk enough for the reward. what some top players do has nothing to do with it.

but actual u are right. i stop the discussion now, u both can only think in black and white not realizing the world is colorful. i think u will notice that in the future the devs will shave this build slowly. that should be an indicator how wrong u both are.

thing is i never talked about the build being op or not when i was responding to you, only how flawed your logic is and there’s no argument in there but personal attacks.

if u arent seeing the logic my statement is true and no personal attack. clearly just black and white.

I sympathize a little bit with the OP. It’s kind of lame when everyone hates you just because of the profession you play.

But isn’t this whole thread a straw man? i.e. picking out the most uninformed arguments and standing them up to knock down?

Lighter.5631:

evilapprentice.6379:

Lighter.5631:

thats the whole point of it…and what are you trying to say exactly.

There are counters to other forms of healing – activated heals can be mitgated by poison and interrupted, regen can be poisoned, stolen or stripped. Healing signet and Adrenal health are highly resilient to poison thanks to Cleansing Ire, and can’t be interrupted/stripped in any manner.

Burger tries to downplay the power of AH, but it’s nothing to scoff at – the second tier healing of AH is roughly 20% weaker (IIRC) than shadow Rejuvenation, a grand master trait that requires being in stealth (Not doing any damage, not contesting points) to access – that just happens every 3 seconds for a warrior. I’m not claiming it’s broken, but Burger is trying pretty hard to downplay how powerful it is for a 15 point minor trait.

That’s the whole point of it, don’t you get it? thats why they aren’t made of boon.
as of poison, poison is most likely the last thing to clean on your condi bar, and as a warrior, if you use your f1, you will probably get 2 condis off you every 8 seconds at max.
but what about the 8 seconds when f1 is on CD? not to mention rangers thief necro engi can apply constant poison and poison field.

and how is AH roughly 20% weaker then SR? AH heals 120 per sec at max and if you are actually using F1 skills, most of the time you will have 1 lvl of adre or 2 lvl but not for long because you are about to use f1 again. thats 41 per sec most of the time and 80 per sec.
and SR does 293 per sec.

Is SR per second? I haven’t run a stealth spec in months, i thought it was every 3s (but thinking about it, you’re probably right – my bad, I rescind that comment). Bold for emphasis

If a thief is using SHbow for choking gas to apply poison to a warrior, the thief doesn’t have the DPS to pressure a HS+AH warrior. If he’s using dagger, he has to be careful to not get pasted, because meleeing any flavor of warrior is risky business in the current meta.

If the point of HS+AH is to be nigh uncounterable, that’s poor design. It’s fine is poison specifically doesn’t counter HS, but it still requires some way in which it can be countered. It can’t be interrupted, it’s highly resistant to poison, and the HPS is Excellent, especially when supported by AH – you don’t get to have all 3, everything has to have a weakness.

We haven’t even talked about condition cleanses besides Cleansing Ire. A well timed cleanse and Berserkers stance can produce 8-10s of uncounterable full HPS regen.

hooma.9642:

if u arent seeing the logic my statement is true and no personal attack. clearly just black and white.

if u arent seeing the logic my statement is true and there is personal attack. clearly just black and white

thanks for this awesome sentence of “can be used by any side but it has no clear point and doesn’t include any standing argument”

i guess you just showed your inability of arguing but saying pointless things. good day you too.

Lighter.5631:

hooma.9642:

if u arent seeing the logic my statement is true and no personal attack. clearly just black and white.

if u arent seeing the logic my statement is true and there is personal attack. clearly just black and white

thanks for this awesome sentence of “can be used by any side but it has no clear point and doesn’t include any standing argument”

more of this please. actual its easy to answer always in 1 sentence to contest all arguments but never has 1 argument by itself. troll?

evilapprentice.6379:

Lighter.5631:

evilapprentice.6379:

Lighter.5631:

thats the whole point of it…and what are you trying to say exactly.

There are counters to other forms of healing – activated heals can be mitgated by poison and interrupted, regen can be poisoned, stolen or stripped. Healing signet and Adrenal health are highly resilient to poison thanks to Cleansing Ire, and can’t be interrupted/stripped in any manner.

Burger tries to downplay the power of AH, but it’s nothing to scoff at – the second tier healing of AH is roughly 20% weaker (IIRC) than shadow Rejuvenation, a grand master trait that requires being in stealth (Not doing any damage, not contesting points) to access – that just happens every 3 seconds for a warrior. I’m not claiming it’s broken, but Burger is trying pretty hard to downplay how powerful it is for a 15 point minor trait.

That’s the whole point of it, don’t you get it? thats why they aren’t made of boon.
as of poison, poison is most likely the last thing to clean on your condi bar, and as a warrior, if you use your f1, you will probably get 2 condis off you every 8 seconds at max.
but what about the 8 seconds when f1 is on CD? not to mention rangers thief necro engi can apply constant poison and poison field.

and how is AH roughly 20% weaker then SR? AH heals 120 per sec at max and if you are actually using F1 skills, most of the time you will have 1 lvl of adre or 2 lvl but not for long because you are about to use f1 again. thats 41 per sec most of the time and 80 per sec.
and SR does 293 per sec.

Is SR per second? I haven’t run a stealth spec in months, i thought it was every 3s (but thinking about it, you’re probably right – my bad, I rescind that comment). Bold for emphasis

If a thief is using SHbow for choking gas to apply poison to a warrior, the thief doesn’t have the DPS to pressure a HS+AH warrior. If he’s using dagger, he has to be careful to not get pasted, because meleeing any flavor of warrior is risky business in the current meta.

If the point of HS+AH is to be nigh uncounterable, that’s poor design. It’s fine is poison specifically doesn’t counter HS, but it still requires some way in which it can be countered. It can’t be interrupted, it’s highly resistant to poison, and the HPS is Excellent, especially when supported by AH – you don’t get to have all 3, everything has to have a weakness.

We haven’t even talked about condition cleanses besides Cleansing Ire. A well timed cleanse and Berserkers stance can produce 8-10s of uncounterable full HPS regen.

yes, you are right, in fights, i either use short bow apply aoe poison constantly with aoe weakness and let other people do the job, or i go in burst around 1.5/3 of that warriors HP down and pressure it with blinds. but that’s just your choice.

and sure, a well timed cleanse and zerker stance can make you 8 sec immnu to condi = full regen, that’s why warriors can be off tank now paired with shout or banner(no damage at all). thing about 8 sec full regen, can’t you kit? i mean. thats 8 sec full regen with 60 CD and occupies 2 slots that probably won’t even give him more then 50% of its health and it doesnt any another healing skill. most of the other healing skills are lower CD then that.

hooma.9642:

Lighter.5631:

hooma.9642:

if u arent seeing the logic my statement is true and no personal attack. clearly just black and white.

if u arent seeing the logic my statement is true and there is personal attack. clearly just black and white

thanks for this awesome sentence of “can be used by any side but it has no clear point and doesn’t include any standing argument”

more of this please. actual its easy to answer always in 1 sentence to contest all arguments but never has 1 argument by itself. troll?

im glad that you said it yourself, so i don’t need to say it to your face..gg

Lighter.5631:

Arheundel.6451:

zone.1073:

The reality about healing signet is that many other classes have had this same effect for a long time, through Regeneration. All the engineers and elementalists who have 100% regeneration uptime are achieving the same sustain effect within their own class. Thieves have a version of this through their healing and condition removal from stealth. Same goes with guardians and their constant AoE healing.

The concept of healing signet’s sustain is nothing new. It’s new to warriors, but it has been done already. Why the shock and awe about warriors having this mechanic now is silly.

Stop your non-sense..you compare regeneration to the warrior healing signet?…Are you mad?
I should have like 2000 pts in healing power to match the passive healing of the signet.

Healing signet = 400 HP for sec
Regeneration = 130 +0.125 * Healing Power.

…my thief regen 356 per sec in stealth, its only Valkyrie amulet, and its not regenation.

Any idea what thief had to sacrifice to get that ?
Ow and any idea why they have to be in stealth to get it ??? if you find the answer you’ll know the downside for it …..

Now here’s are facts of what war has :

- spammable stuns

- normal passive healing that heals for more then any other healing skill on other characters can do.

- Tons of condition clears and blocks

- High immune uptime to condi’s and power based damage

- High base toughness , High base hp , High base damage

- F1 burst doesn’t punish for missing, it actually rewards the warrior for screwing up.
( on evade / dodge from enemy = small cooldown + no adrenalin depletion , and war’s the only class-mechanic that punished the enemy for being better the him)

- DOESN’T SACRIFICE anything for his builds, compared to how other characters have to sacrifice in there builds.

Clearly you and blurr are warriors , afraid of loosing your advantage toward other classes.
Been seeing you defend wars on a lot of topics, so its clear you know there is a problem and are actively trying to generalize it to try and keep it from being balanced out. Why else would it bother you so much what people say about warrior.

cheerz

kirito.4138:

Without any major changes from patches for the last few months

We have went from OMG Necro OP -> OMG Spirit Ranger OP -> OMG Warrior OP.

Ranger:
All spirits can now be launched, knocked down, and knocked back.
…now begin their recharge when the spirit dies instead of when the spirit is summoned

Necromancer:
Grasping Dead: This skill now applies two stacks of bleeding instead of three (PvP only).

not so much, but at least it helped to get them from OP to strong, so warrior shines above them and calls for a nerf…

BurrTheKing.8571:

I am posting this here as opposed to the Warrior forum because most of the complaints regarding Warrior is PvP related, also the most amount of misinformation about them comes from this forum.

Almost every day I see a new thread that claims something about the Warrior that is either exaggerated or just downright untrue. This is highly annoying because if anybody takes what this person says seriously, they may go on to spread this untrue information.

Here are some examples, I’ve removed the names because I am not doing this as a form of public shaming. I am using these as a few more recent examples of people saying things that are so easily disproved by anyone familiar with the class. In the case of the video it shows little more than a people auto attacking a guy and the second his health starts dropping he starts dodging and using shield block. More importantly, it was used to somehow prove that Warriors are OP in PvP, even though the footage is from WvW.

I only saw one case of extreme exaggreation. The rest looks like legit comments to me.

First Quote -
The guy mentioned Hammer and sw/shield. I’m an average player but even I would think the OP probably meant to say Hammer and Mace/Shield. I also think his definition of stun includes all form of crowd control. So with Hammer and Mace/Shield, you have 3 Stuns, 1 Knock Back, 1 Knock Down, and 1 Daze for a total of 6 CC. If you want to get technical, we can talk about rotation and how you can chain those abilities multiple times for 7-8 CC.

Second Quote- “their stuns up of like every 5 secs”
This is somewhat true with Hammer and Mace/X in a X/X/X/X/30 spec. Skull Crack wait 3-5 secs switch weapon then Earthshaker then chain #5 then #4 then switch weapon again for another skull crack etc etc etc. Not hard to do…Can you keep it up permamently? No, but you can’t deny the fact that the warrior is really good at chaining CC on short cooldown.

Forth Quote -
Warrior have ultra mobility – True without specing for it. They just need a GS or S/X
Crazy DMG in all builds – I agree this is a lie.
PERMANENT ultra healing regeneration 1100 hp evry 3 sec passive – Close but the value is 788 bare min. You can’t go below this number unless you use your healing ability.
4 SEC stun from mace evry 6 second lol what??? – Most likely it will be up every 8 secs but the stun duration has been nerfed to 3.5 max
100% crit% when ppl are stunned. – True, a warrior can build around this

Lighter.5631:

evilapprentice.6379:

Lighter.5631:

evilapprentice.6379:

Lighter.5631:

thats the whole point of it…and what are you trying to say exactly.

There are counters to other forms of healing – activated heals can be mitgated by poison and interrupted, regen can be poisoned, stolen or stripped. Healing signet and Adrenal health are highly resilient to poison thanks to Cleansing Ire, and can’t be interrupted/stripped in any manner.

Burger tries to downplay the power of AH, but it’s nothing to scoff at – the second tier healing of AH is roughly 20% weaker (IIRC) than shadow Rejuvenation, a grand master trait that requires being in stealth (Not doing any damage, not contesting points) to access – that just happens every 3 seconds for a warrior. I’m not claiming it’s broken, but Burger is trying pretty hard to downplay how powerful it is for a 15 point minor trait.

That’s the whole point of it, don’t you get it? thats why they aren’t made of boon.
as of poison, poison is most likely the last thing to clean on your condi bar, and as a warrior, if you use your f1, you will probably get 2 condis off you every 8 seconds at max.
but what about the 8 seconds when f1 is on CD? not to mention rangers thief necro engi can apply constant poison and poison field.

and how is AH roughly 20% weaker then SR? AH heals 120 per sec at max and if you are actually using F1 skills, most of the time you will have 1 lvl of adre or 2 lvl but not for long because you are about to use f1 again. thats 41 per sec most of the time and 80 per sec.
and SR does 293 per sec.

Is SR per second? I haven’t run a stealth spec in months, i thought it was every 3s (but thinking about it, you’re probably right – my bad, I rescind that comment). Bold for emphasis

If a thief is using SHbow for choking gas to apply poison to a warrior, the thief doesn’t have the DPS to pressure a HS+AH warrior. If he’s using dagger, he has to be careful to not get pasted, because meleeing any flavor of warrior is risky business in the current meta.

If the point of HS+AH is to be nigh uncounterable, that’s poor design. It’s fine is poison specifically doesn’t counter HS, but it still requires some way in which it can be countered. It can’t be interrupted, it’s highly resistant to poison, and the HPS is Excellent, especially when supported by AH – you don’t get to have all 3, everything has to have a weakness.

We haven’t even talked about condition cleanses besides Cleansing Ire. A well timed cleanse and Berserkers stance can produce 8-10s of uncounterable full HPS regen.

yes, you are right, in fights, i either use short bow apply aoe poison constantly with aoe weakness and let other people do the job, or i go in burst around 1.5/3 of that warriors HP down and pressure it with blinds. but that’s just your choice.

and sure, a well timed cleanse and zerker stance can make you 8 sec immnu to condi = full regen, that’s why warriors can be off tank now paired with shout or banner(no damage at all). thing about 8 sec full regen, can’t you kit? i mean. thats 8 sec full regen with 60 CD and occupies 2 slots that probably won’t even give him more then 50% of its health and it doesnt any another healing skill. most of the other healing skills are lower CD then that.

example ,

fight starts and lasts 1 minut ( 60 seconds , just incase)

- war getting healed for : +- 24000 ( healing signet )
- thief getting healed for : +- 16000 ( withdraw )
- other classes are doing around same as thief from there healing skills

no try to justify that 8000 health regain more on warrior.
DONT FORGET that war hasa average higher toughness / higher HP/ higher damage output combination then almost any other character.

NevirSayDie.6235:

I sympathize a little bit with the OP. It’s kind of lame when everyone hates you just because of the profession you play.

But isn’t this whole thread a straw man? i.e. picking out the most uninformed arguments and standing them up to knock down?

I don’t believe that i am attacking a straw man because the only people I am addressing here are the people who spread false information about the class which can lead to to others believing them.

I have no problem with people who make a factual arguments and don’t blow things out of proportion, but I haven’t seen many. The guys quoted are pretty much the average thread I’ve seen as of late. I don’t even believe these vocal few represent the PvP community as a whole, people are more likely to come here to complain about something they dislike rather than come here as talk about what they do like.

Void.4239:

Lighter.5631:

Arheundel.6451:

zone.1073:

The reality about healing signet is that many other classes have had this same effect for a long time, through Regeneration. All the engineers and elementalists who have 100% regeneration uptime are achieving the same sustain effect within their own class. Thieves have a version of this through their healing and condition removal from stealth. Same goes with guardians and their constant AoE healing.

The concept of healing signet’s sustain is nothing new. It’s new to warriors, but it has been done already. Why the shock and awe about warriors having this mechanic now is silly.

Stop your non-sense..you compare regeneration to the warrior healing signet?…Are you mad?
I should have like 2000 pts in healing power to match the passive healing of the signet.

Healing signet = 400 HP for sec
Regeneration = 130 +0.125 * Healing Power.

…my thief regen 356 per sec in stealth, its only Valkyrie amulet, and its not regenation.

Any idea what thief had to sacrifice to get that ?
Ow and any idea why they have to be in stealth to get it ??? if you find the answer you’ll know the downside for it …..

Now here’s are facts of what war has :

- spammable stuns

- normal passive healing that heals for more then any other healing skill on other characters can do.

- Tons of condition clears and blocks

- High immune uptime to condi’s and power based damage

- High base toughness , High base hp , High base damage

- F1 burst doesn’t punish for missing, it actually rewards the warrior for screwing up.
( on evade / dodge from enemy = small cooldown + no adrenalin depletion , and war’s the only class-mechanic that punished the enemy for being better the him)

- DOESN’T SACRIFICE anything for his builds, compared to how other characters have to sacrifice in there builds.

Clearly you and blurr are warriors , afraid of loosing your advantage toward other classes.
Been seeing you defend wars on a lot of topics, so its clear you know there is a problem and are actively trying to generalize it to try and keep it from being balanced out. Why else would it bother you so much what people say about warrior.

cheerz

Lol, im speechless, i have said countless time that I AM PLAYING a thief. 30 points in shadow arts, what, that’s why its better then 15 points AH, specially for my dp build, i have to be in stealth constantly with 3cd or 4 depends on modes thats a huge amount of passive healing for a squishy class that has a healing skill ready.

and do you know what warriors sacrifice for using their F1 skills? clearly, you don’t and F1 skills DOES GO ON FULL CD when missed.
and don’t sacrifice ANY THING? DO you have a single idea for a warrior to counter condi meta they need 2 utilities with 1 set of runes and 20 points in to defense and an offensive playstyle?

you don’t have an single ideal what you are talking about.

BurrTheKing.8571:

Plenty meaning one skill that makes you invuln to only physical damage on a fairly long cooldown and a block on mace and one on shield?

Armor and HP is not that impressive when compared to protection, Guardians has low base health but the other factors I mentions make them the toughest class in the game.

Little misinformation here. Invulnerability also affects condition damage. While invulnerable you still get damage from them, that’s true. BUT there are no new conditions applied. So you prevent the damage that would hit you later, that’s how conditions work.

Same story for block, blind, dodge and obstacles(positioning). The only thing that effects direct damage only is protection and toughness (and one or two “you get less damage” traits). But on the other hand, for condition damage we have minus condition duration and condition remove.

Oh and read the wiki, there are things like this explained :p

Void.4239:

Lighter.5631:

evilapprentice.6379:

Lighter.5631:

evilapprentice.6379:

Lighter.5631:

thats the whole point of it…and what are you trying to say exactly.

There are counters to other forms of healing – activated heals can be mitgated by poison and interrupted, regen can be poisoned, stolen or stripped. Healing signet and Adrenal health are highly resilient to poison thanks to Cleansing Ire, and can’t be interrupted/stripped in any manner.

Burger tries to downplay the power of AH, but it’s nothing to scoff at – the second tier healing of AH is roughly 20% weaker (IIRC) than shadow Rejuvenation, a grand master trait that requires being in stealth (Not doing any damage, not contesting points) to access – that just happens every 3 seconds for a warrior. I’m not claiming it’s broken, but Burger is trying pretty hard to downplay how powerful it is for a 15 point minor trait.

That’s the whole point of it, don’t you get it? thats why they aren’t made of boon.
as of poison, poison is most likely the last thing to clean on your condi bar, and as a warrior, if you use your f1, you will probably get 2 condis off you every 8 seconds at max.
but what about the 8 seconds when f1 is on CD? not to mention rangers thief necro engi can apply constant poison and poison field.

and how is AH roughly 20% weaker then SR? AH heals 120 per sec at max and if you are actually using F1 skills, most of the time you will have 1 lvl of adre or 2 lvl but not for long because you are about to use f1 again. thats 41 per sec most of the time and 80 per sec.
and SR does 293 per sec.

Is SR per second? I haven’t run a stealth spec in months, i thought it was every 3s (but thinking about it, you’re probably right – my bad, I rescind that comment). Bold for emphasis

If a thief is using SHbow for choking gas to apply poison to a warrior, the thief doesn’t have the DPS to pressure a HS+AH warrior. If he’s using dagger, he has to be careful to not get pasted, because meleeing any flavor of warrior is risky business in the current meta.

If the point of HS+AH is to be nigh uncounterable, that’s poor design. It’s fine is poison specifically doesn’t counter HS, but it still requires some way in which it can be countered. It can’t be interrupted, it’s highly resistant to poison, and the HPS is Excellent, especially when supported by AH – you don’t get to have all 3, everything has to have a weakness.

We haven’t even talked about condition cleanses besides Cleansing Ire. A well timed cleanse and Berserkers stance can produce 8-10s of uncounterable full HPS regen.

yes, you are right, in fights, i either use short bow apply aoe poison constantly with aoe weakness and let other people do the job, or i go in burst around 1.5/3 of that warriors HP down and pressure it with blinds. but that’s just your choice.

and sure, a well timed cleanse and zerker stance can make you 8 sec immnu to condi = full regen, that’s why warriors can be off tank now paired with shout or banner(no damage at all). thing about 8 sec full regen, can’t you kit? i mean. thats 8 sec full regen with 60 CD and occupies 2 slots that probably won’t even give him more then 50% of its health and it doesnt any another healing skill. most of the other healing skills are lower CD then that.

example ,

fight starts and lasts 1 minut ( 60 seconds , just incase)

- war getting healed for : +- 24000 ( healing signet )
- thief getting healed for : +- 16000 ( withdraw )
- other classes are doing around same as thief from there healing skills

no try to justify that 8000 health regain more on warrior.
DONT FORGET that war hasa average higher toughness / higher HP/ higher damage output combination then almost any other character.

do you know how to balance skills? you don’t just take every single skill of the same type and say oh this skill does the best its op nerf!

thieves whilring axe does way more damage then warriors ones and it also reflect projectils. should they nerf that too? no.

the problem with warriors is just how little trade off they have compared to majority of classes

and let’s be honest, the team that wins is not the one who killed/died most but the one that held points.. and wars are too good at it atm due to absurd survivability and CCs w/o trading off too much dmg…yes you may kill them eventually (if you manage to survive) but it takes incredibly long…right now fighting warrior feels like fighting bunker guardian doing close to zerker thief dmg

Lighter.5631:

Void.4239:

Lighter.5631:

Arheundel.6451:

zone.1073:

The reality about healing signet is that many other classes have had this same effect for a long time, through Regeneration. All the engineers and elementalists who have 100% regeneration uptime are achieving the same sustain effect within their own class. Thieves have a version of this through their healing and condition removal from stealth. Same goes with guardians and their constant AoE healing.

The concept of healing signet’s sustain is nothing new. It’s new to warriors, but it has been done already. Why the shock and awe about warriors having this mechanic now is silly.

Stop your non-sense..you compare regeneration to the warrior healing signet?…Are you mad?
I should have like 2000 pts in healing power to match the passive healing of the signet.

Healing signet = 400 HP for sec
Regeneration = 130 +0.125 * Healing Power.

…my thief regen 356 per sec in stealth, its only Valkyrie amulet, and its not regenation.

Any idea what thief had to sacrifice to get that ?
Ow and any idea why they have to be in stealth to get it ??? if you find the answer you’ll know the downside for it …..

Now here’s are facts of what war has :

- spammable stuns

- normal passive healing that heals for more then any other healing skill on other characters can do.

- Tons of condition clears and blocks

- High immune uptime to condi’s and power based damage

- High base toughness , High base hp , High base damage

- F1 burst doesn’t punish for missing, it actually rewards the warrior for screwing up.
( on evade / dodge from enemy = small cooldown + no adrenalin depletion , and war’s the only class-mechanic that punished the enemy for being better the him)

- DOESN’T SACRIFICE anything for his builds, compared to how other characters have to sacrifice in there builds.

Clearly you and blurr are warriors , afraid of loosing your advantage toward other classes.
Been seeing you defend wars on a lot of topics, so its clear you know there is a problem and are actively trying to generalize it to try and keep it from being balanced out. Why else would it bother you so much what people say about warrior.

cheerz

Lol, im speechless, i have said countless time that I AM PLAYING a thief. 30 points in shadow arts, what, that’s why its better then 15 points AH, specially for my dp build, i have to be in stealth constantly with 3cd or 4 depends on modes thats a huge amount of passive healing for a squishy class that has a healing skill ready.

and do you know what warriors sacrifice for using their F1 skills? clearly, you don’t and F1 skills DOES GO ON FULL CD when missed.
and don’t sacrifice ANY THING? DO you have a single idea for a warrior to counter condi meta they need 2 utilities with 1 set of runes and 20 points in to defense and an offensive playstyle?

you don’t have an single ideal what you are talking about.

Clearly you just showed you dont have any clue how spvp/tpvp works. And you failed the answer on what thiefs downside is and why they dont get heals or condi clears outside of stealth.
And sry my mistake by missed i meant dodged/ blocked/ evaded, but you being expert war i thought you would have known that i meant that.

Ow and btw war has it easy against conditions, try doing the same on other characters.

Here’s something for you to think about
1) – Other characters have to get 2 stun breaks at least cause of just 1 class " the war "
2) – Every character has to get 2 condi clears cause of every character

what looks more balanced to you ?

whyme.3281:

BurrTheKing.8571:

Plenty meaning one skill that makes you invuln to only physical damage on a fairly long cooldown and a block on mace and one on shield?

Armor and HP is not that impressive when compared to protection, Guardians has low base health but the other factors I mentions make them the toughest class in the game.

Little misinformation here. Invulnerability also affects condition damage. While invulnerable you still get damage from them, that’s true. BUT there are no new conditions applied. So you prevent the damage that would hit you later, that’s how conditions work.

Same story for block, blind, dodge and obstacles(positioning). The only thing that effects direct damage only is protection and toughness (and one or two “you get less damage” traits). But on the other hand, for condition damage we have minus condition duration and condition remove.

Oh and read the wiki, there are things like this explained :p

They claimed that Warriors had plenty of invuln, which they don’t. At least they don’t have it in the same way as Mist Form or Elixir S. Endure Pain and Zerker Stance make you invuln to one type of damage, but it’s not true invulnerability.

BurrTheKing.8571:

NevirSayDie.6235:

I sympathize a little bit with the OP. It’s kind of lame when everyone hates you just because of the profession you play.

But isn’t this whole thread a straw man? i.e. picking out the most uninformed arguments and standing them up to knock down?

I don’t believe that i am attacking a straw man because the only people I am addressing here are the people who spread false information about the class which can lead to to others believing them.

I have no problem with people who make a factual arguments and don’t blow things out of proportion, but I haven’t seen many. The guys quoted are pretty much the average thread I’ve seen as of late. I don’t even believe these vocal few represent the PvP community as a whole, people are more likely to come here to complain about something they dislike rather than come here as talk about what they do like.

Understandable. Still, I’d say the solution would be to highlight the most reasonable arguments and advocate for getting warrior into a better place. It’s hated for a reason; I’d attack that reason rather than the hatred itself. It’s possible to have top-tier builds that aren’t cheesy or skill-less. If warrior keeps those while losing builds that are understandably hated (not enjoyable to play or to play against), everyone will win.

Void.4239:

Lighter.5631:

Void.4239:

Lighter.5631:

Arheundel.6451:

zone.1073:

The reality about healing signet is that many other classes have had this same effect for a long time, through Regeneration. All the engineers and elementalists who have 100% regeneration uptime are achieving the same sustain effect within their own class. Thieves have a version of this through their healing and condition removal from stealth. Same goes with guardians and their constant AoE healing.

The concept of healing signet’s sustain is nothing new. It’s new to warriors, but it has been done already. Why the shock and awe about warriors having this mechanic now is silly.

Stop your non-sense..you compare regeneration to the warrior healing signet?…Are you mad?
I should have like 2000 pts in healing power to match the passive healing of the signet.

Healing signet = 400 HP for sec
Regeneration = 130 +0.125 * Healing Power.

…my thief regen 356 per sec in stealth, its only Valkyrie amulet, and its not regenation.

Any idea what thief had to sacrifice to get that ?
Ow and any idea why they have to be in stealth to get it ??? if you find the answer you’ll know the downside for it …..

Now here’s are facts of what war has :

- spammable stuns

- normal passive healing that heals for more then any other healing skill on other characters can do.

- Tons of condition clears and blocks

- High immune uptime to condi’s and power based damage

- High base toughness , High base hp , High base damage

- F1 burst doesn’t punish for missing, it actually rewards the warrior for screwing up.
( on evade / dodge from enemy = small cooldown + no adrenalin depletion , and war’s the only class-mechanic that punished the enemy for being better the him)

- DOESN’T SACRIFICE anything for his builds, compared to how other characters have to sacrifice in there builds.

Clearly you and blurr are warriors , afraid of loosing your advantage toward other classes.
Been seeing you defend wars on a lot of topics, so its clear you know there is a problem and are actively trying to generalize it to try and keep it from being balanced out. Why else would it bother you so much what people say about warrior.

cheerz

Lol, im speechless, i have said countless time that I AM PLAYING a thief. 30 points in shadow arts, what, that’s why its better then 15 points AH, specially for my dp build, i have to be in stealth constantly with 3cd or 4 depends on modes thats a huge amount of passive healing for a squishy class that has a healing skill ready.

and do you know what warriors sacrifice for using their F1 skills? clearly, you don’t and F1 skills DOES GO ON FULL CD when missed.
and don’t sacrifice ANY THING? DO you have a single idea for a warrior to counter condi meta they need 2 utilities with 1 set of runes and 20 points in to defense and an offensive playstyle?

you don’t have an single ideal what you are talking about.

Clearly you just showed you dont have any clue how spvp/tpvp works. And you failed the answer on what thiefs downside is and why they dont get heals or condi clears outside of stealth.
And sry my mistake by missed i meant dodged/ blocked/ evaded, but you being expert war i thought you would have known that i meant that.

Ow and btw war has it easy against conditions, try doing the same on other characters.

Here’s something for you to think about
1) – Other characters have to get 2 stun breaks at least cause of just 1 class " the war "
2) – Every character has to get 2 condi clears cause of every character

what looks more balanced to you ?

You are the one who have no clue in pvp what so ever. before stunwar, every class must have atleast 1 sometimes 2 stunbreaks already if you don’t then you are just some hotjoin random kid who think he knows everything. and why thieves don’t get heal outside of stealth? dude i stealth when ever i can thats 4 sec CD. even if you play SD thats evade spam, you rarely even get hit, even you do, you have instant cast evade heal that heals 45% of your heal with extreme low CD.

and no, please to argue anymore with your misinformed non sense, warrior missing F1 dont go full CD? what on the earth is that

Lighter.5631:

You are the one who have no clue in pvp what so ever. before stunwar, every class must have atleast 1 sometimes 2 stunbreaks already if you don’t then you are just some hotjoin random kid who think he knows everything. and why thieves don’t get heal outside of stealth? dude i stealth when ever i can thats 4 sec CD. even if you play SD thats evade spam, you rarely even get hit, even you do, you have instant cast evade heal that heals 45% of your heal with extreme low CD.

and no, please to argue anymore with your misinformed non sense, warrior missing F1 dont go full CD? what on the earth is that

( Still dont get it with thief do ya…. )

Yes they can evade a lot of attacks when they sacrifice a lot of damage. to bad there own attacks will be single target…
but non the less if thief messes up , he gets slaughtered.

Guess you dont even read the full comment even…..

And on a side not , in the past people sometimes used 2 stun breaks ( there choice )
Now you dont have a choice in the matter cause of war, if you dont have 2 stun breaks you wont be able to win the fight against a decent war.
There’s a big difference even if you clearly cant see it.

Void.4239:

Lighter.5631:

You are the one who have no clue in pvp what so ever. before stunwar, every class must have atleast 1 sometimes 2 stunbreaks already if you don’t then you are just some hotjoin random kid who think he knows everything. and why thieves don’t get heal outside of stealth? dude i stealth when ever i can thats 4 sec CD. even if you play SD thats evade spam, you rarely even get hit, even you do, you have instant cast evade heal that heals 45% of your heal with extreme low CD.

and no, please to argue anymore with your misinformed non sense, warrior missing F1 dont go full CD? what on the earth is that

( Still dont get it with thief do ya…. )

Yes they can evade a lot of attacks when they sacrifice a lot of damage. to bad there own attacks will be single target…
but non the less if thief messes up , he gets slaughtered.

Guess you dont even read the full comment even…..

And on a side not , in the past people sometimes used 2 stun breaks ( there choice )
Now you dont have a choice in the matter cause of war, if you dont have 2 stun breaks you wont be able to win the fight against a decent war.
There’s a big difference even if you clearly cant see it.

in the past, people have 2 stunbreaks, not by choice, people having stunbreaks are not by choice. and no SD don’t sacrifice damage for evades, only if you want to bring sacrificing traits.

and no i don’t fully read comments that are too long after all these non sense throwing everywhere.

To the OP, I was going to respond to you in another thread, mainly because your sentiments towards players is “Learn to Play” and you seem to assume that everyone that complains about Warriors at the moment doesn’t run with any stun breakers and is essentially a moron.

While I agree that Warriors CC can be counter-played against and it can TO A CERTAIN DEGREE, you can only effectively kite for so long, before everything you have is on CD, you have no more vigor and you get caught. Stun-Breakers are on a disproportionate timer to the CC a warrior can apply. Some professions do better than others, Thieves (S/D Evade Builds) and Mesmers are probably the best at counter playing a Warriors CC spam. Your answer to everyone seems to be “use stun-breakers” people ARE using stun breakers, it’s still not enough.

Warriors survivability is too high and this is purely down to Healing Signet and in some degrees Adrenal Health, but mostly down to that Signet. People have posted numbers to back this up, someone in another thread suggested a reduction in it’s base heal tick, but let it scale with healing power, so you HAVE to spec to get that extra healing, maybe at the cost of damage, it’s a good balanced suggestion. At present that signet heals for too much and just add’s to the problem.

I rolled a warrior alt, just too see what the fuss is about, I am in no way an expert in Wars or melee professions for that matter, I main Necro, Mesmer and recently Guardian for sPvP/tPvP. I do know the abilities of professions and would say I’m above average. I can literally lock down anyone and they can’t do much about it. The only professions I had issues fighting were S/D Evade Thieves and PU Mesmers. A ranger managed to kite me for a while using bow evade spam, but I eventually caught him and it was quite an easy kill once I pinned him down. The damage you can put out in what is essentially a bunker still surprises me. Against good players you still have the edge because of your passive healing and ability to continually chain CC/Knockbacks. Against inexperienced players and your average tPvP (solo Q) player, well this build is monstrous.

I think Warriors being left in this current state is severely hurting PvP at the moment, purely down to the number of warriors you see in PvP and just how overly-effective they are.

Nothing will put of a new player or someone trying sPvP for the first time more than coming across a seemingly unkillable Warrior that can lock them down with seemingly nothing they can do about it.

Warriors are Really hard to play. /thread.

This topic remind me when Ele was OP and Ele players were defending that thier Ele was not OP. XD

BurrTheKing.8571:

NevirSayDie.6235:

I sympathize a little bit with the OP. It’s kind of lame when everyone hates you just because of the profession you play.

But isn’t this whole thread a straw man? i.e. picking out the most uninformed arguments and standing them up to knock down?

I don’t believe that i am attacking a straw man because the only people I am addressing here are the people who spread false information about the class which can lead to to others believing them.

I have no problem with people who make a factual arguments and don’t blow things out of proportion, but I haven’t seen many. The guys quoted are pretty much the average thread I’ve seen as of late. I don’t even believe these vocal few represent the PvP community as a whole, people are more likely to come here to complain about something they dislike rather than come here as talk about what they do like.

Agreed. Usually when I see someone in game complain about warriors they tend to be very new players with very low ranks (below 15 generally). It’s also generally after I have stomped them repeatedly for making common new player mistakes (random dodges, bad builds, no stunbreaks etc). The funny thing is, not a single person thought warrior was overpowered until our heals were very marginally buffed. Rarely was the complaint even about the heals though. It was the stuns mostly with the occasional wah wah about the heal buffs. The only heal that got a big buff was healing signet, because nobody in their right mind used it pre buff except for the occasional PvE use.

Even now, many players STILL consider Healing Surge better under most circumstances. The only thing Healing Signet is really good at it outlasting low damage builds (if you use Soldiers Amulet), but low damage builds are going to have a problem with tanks of any class. If I was fighting any class with high damage, Healing Surge is the obvious better choice. Especially if said class can apply poison easily. Healing Signets counters are burst damage and/or poison.

Also, the people in this thread that keep comparing it to other forums of regen that are not that classes heals are hilarious. Those other classes have those regens and their heals, but you want to act like warrior has this regen plus his heals. When warrior uses Healing Signet IT IS HIS HEALS. Nobody even pops it because that minor amount of life it provides is like one hit worth of health from a damage class, if even. Better off trying to run to save your life than pop that Signet.

Pretty sure the developers know this, and hey, if they listen to the people who whine on forums unjustly on a daily basis.. I guess there is always Wildstar or my backlog of PS3 and PC games (about 50 games). lol

KumaTazZ.8054:

This topic remind me when Ele was OP and Ele players were defending that thier Ele was not OP. XD

Except, Warrior is fine. Read my above post instead of posting drivel meant to start arguments. Also, Ele was fine. They haven’t really been nerfed much at all other than RTL as far as I know. I think their condi removal got nerfed a bit and stunbreaks got spread out a bit, but other than that I don’t think a lot has changed. Then again I don’t pay attention much since I am not generally screaming for nerfs to other classes (and never have, even when warrior was considered one of the weakest in the game). Even post RTL nerf ele was fine, and I played warrior and thief. The only reason ele is considered weak currently is because the meta changed and the environment is not really suitable for them at the moment. As the meta changes, different classes will be considered strong. In a condi meta, warrior are considered strong since they are pretty effective at countering the main condition classes. Also, just a quick fyi for you. Any experienced mesmer will absolute stomp even the best of warriors. All skill being equal, mesmer wins the VAST majority of the time (90%+, the other 10% you may win if they happen to make a fatal mistake or panic).

Loco.4561:

To the OP, I was going to respond to you in another thread, mainly because your sentiments towards players is “Learn to Play” and you seem to assume that everyone that complains about Warriors at the moment doesn’t run with any stun breakers and is essentially a moron.

While I agree that Warriors CC can be counter-played against and it can TO A CERTAIN DEGREE, you can only effectively kite for so long, before everything you have is on CD, you have no more vigor and you get caught. Stun-Breakers are on a disproportionate timer to the CC a warrior can apply. Some professions do better than others, Thieves (S/D Evade Builds) and Mesmers are probably the best at counter playing a Warriors CC spam. Your answer to everyone seems to be “use stun-breakers” people ARE using stun breakers, it’s still not enough.

Warriors survivability is too high and this is purely down to Healing Signet and in some degrees Adrenal Health, but mostly down to that Signet. People have posted numbers to back this up, someone in another thread suggested a reduction in it’s base heal tick, but let it scale with healing power, so you HAVE to spec to get that extra healing, maybe at the cost of damage, it’s a good balanced suggestion. At present that signet heals for too much and just add’s to the problem.

I rolled a warrior alt, just too see what the fuss is about, I am in no way an expert in Wars or melee professions for that matter, I main Necro, Mesmer and recently Guardian for sPvP/tPvP. I do know the abilities of professions and would say I’m above average. I can literally lock down anyone and they can’t do much about it. The only professions I had issues fighting were S/D Evade Thieves and PU Mesmers. A ranger managed to kite me for a while using bow evade spam, but I eventually caught him and it was quite an easy kill once I pinned him down. The damage you can put out in what is essentially a bunker still surprises me. Against good players you still have the edge because of your passive healing and ability to continually chain CC/Knockbacks. Against inexperienced players and your average tPvP (solo Q) player, well this build is monstrous.

I think Warriors being left in this current state is severely hurting PvP at the moment, purely down to the number of warriors you see in PvP and just how overly-effective they are.

Nothing will put of a new player or someone trying sPvP for the first time more than coming across a seemingly unkillable Warrior that can lock them down with seemingly nothing they can do about it.

I would not call my sentiment “Learn to Play,” rather it’s “Learn to Adapt.”

Many of the builds you see in SPvP and SoloQ are all about offense, they bring little to no counter measures. Warriors on the other hand, have been buffed up to be the counter to these kind of builds. I can only assume that ANet hoped that in response to this players would then build against Warriors. This has happened for the most part at higher levels, but not so much in the modes most people actually play.

For some reason in hotjoin and SoloQ things haven’t moved on. You see people running the same builds they always have even though they know they’re weak to Warriors. No wonder you see so many Wars currently, it’s basically a buffet of free kills. It feels like this is less of a balance issue and more of a player mindset issue. They just want ANet to come along and nerf anything they have their pitchforks aimed at currently. I don’t think this is a health mindset, the meta should be driven by the players by this point in the game’s life.

Having a strong class/build can actually make things more interesting because it can become the new thing to beat. In the past there were builds that had few to no counters, but the current Warrior builds are nowhere near as bad. Just like GW1, Warrior is a force to be reckoned with, but has exploitable weaknesses. Of course, I’m referring to Mesmer. ANet has been hesitant to buff them too much vs conditions because they are a very, very strong class. Warrior keeping conditions, which are still strong, in check.

Now it’s the Mesmer’s turn to keep Warriors in check. They will all still be strong builds to run but they will have a obvious weakness. Right now that balance is out of whack due to there being so few Mesmers out there. Thieves can fill this role as well but Mesmer is practically built from the ground up to be Anti-Warrior.

If Warriors get nerfed and conditions don’t get brought down just as much we’ll be right back in the condition meta. Nerfing them the right amount is such a delicate proposal it makes more sense to me that they focus on adding more counters. Power creep isn’t that big of a threat if they focus on adding counters to specific builds.

Warriors need sustain nerf. I would not directly nerf the numbers themselves, seeing as warriors do need stronger healing to stay in the fight, I’d just change it so that you don’t get regen when you are not hitting people. Like gain regen (400 HP/s as healing signet passive) for 3 seconds after you hit an enemy, doesn’t stack, resets on each hit. That’d be fair imo.

OP, you have a point, but consider this. When a class is overpowered, here is what the world looks like:

- Some people exaggerate descriptions of the problem
- Some people deny the problem
- Some people switch to the OP class, making the problem worse
- Some people describe the problem accurately and ask for the nerf. These are the only people worth listening to, but are hard to pick out from the noise

The fact that misinformation exists – while inevitably true – is not the most important point, because that in itself does not spoil the game. Whereas the warrior being OP does spoil the game and should be addressed ASAP.

Silferas.3841:

Warriors need sustain nerf. I would not directly nerf the numbers themselves, seeing as warriors do need stronger healing to stay in the fight, I’d just change it so that you don’t get regen when you are not hitting people. Like gain regen (400 HP/s as healing signet passive) for 3 seconds after you hit an enemy, doesn’t stack, resets on each hit. That’d be fair imo.

I don’t see the problem with reducing the base HPS (300-ish? Just a guess, would need some testing) and increasing the Healing power contribution – warriors should have access to something like the current incarnation of HS…. when they make the same sacrifice every other class has to make when they get that kind of crazy healing, and take healing power in high amounts.

I don’t know if someone has already mentioned this, but this is exactly what has been happening in the Thief forum every day since closed beta, lol. Once a profession is deemed OP there is no end to the hilarious misinformation and outright lies that get thrown around about that profession.

According to most posts in the Thief forum, Thieves have uncounterable perma-stealth (wrong), uncounterable perma-evasion (wrong), extremely high mobility that combined with mega-ultra OP perma-stealth makes a Thief literally impossible to down (wrong), Thieves who are low on HP can stealth and go back to full health (12k+ heal in 5 seconds, wrong), and have the highest 100-0 burst in the game with the ability to do 10-15k Backstabs, and all of this with the same build.

Obviously the Warrior and Thief professions have 150 trait points and multiple weapon sets.

BurrTheKing.8571:

…

They claimed that Warriors had plenty of invuln, which they don’t. At least they don’t have it in the same way as Mist Form or Elixir S. Endure Pain and Zerker Stance make you invuln to one type of damage, but it’s not true invulnerability.

sorry, my bad, thought he has the normal invulnerability than everyone else has.

But that leads me to the question, was he initially designed that his weakness should be conditions. That would explain his high livepool, high regen and high thoughness. And now he gets a condition removal every patch, making him one of the stongest anti condition classes in the game, too now, without any change to the his other defense.

In my oppinion the problem of the warrior in the first month, was his ability to deal damage on moving targets, but that was never adressed/fixed, instead he got everything else buffed. Now someone found a hammer/mace and is benefiting of all those buffs.

An other point that leads people to misinformation is WvW and the PvP done their with PvE armor. The offensive stats in PvE are about 30% higher than in PvP, Which makes 3,3k condi dmg necros with 76% condi duration possible (because there is food and such things), even more with upcoming accended armor. And then people jump in here and talking about bad PvP balance. I think the stats should be matched to each other, otherwise a balance in all aspects of the game is impossible. Which makes those misinformation grow.

What makes them appear strong now it the synergy in their skills, there is no either this trait or that, every trait line is clear, and you have nearly no decision to make, what trait you should take. Ok, every one wants that 10 more traitpoints for his build, but overall, he has the most synergy in his traits.

Dont get me wrong, I too think, warrior is too strong, compared to other classes or at least its made them too easy to be that effective. He has disproportional high health, heal, armor and condi removes plus dealing high damage, which makes him a big thread in the current meta with nearly no counter builds available. (btw you were asked to post them on every class and didnt).
Maybe a team full of CC Warriors wouldnt win a game in tPvP , and they need someone that bursts the stunned people down, but their CC capability compared to their survivabilty and dmg is not balanced at all.

Kwll.1468:

Nice cherry picking. Because some foolish things are said about warriors doesn’t mean they don’t need to be to nerfed. My main problem with Warriors are too much damage with too much survivability. The stuns bother me as well but its not necessarily the idea that Warriors have them just that I believe access to so much hard CC is bad for the game. So explain to me reasonably why Warriors should be able to do so much damage and yet be fairly hard to kill at the same time. Conditions are fairly weak against them now and Healing Signet is a tad too good. Also, they are almost like the old elementalist in terms of escapability. If they want to run away most of the time they can.

Reasonably..because in one trait tree that is healing/toughness they have invested 30 points to get merciless hammer/adrenal health/dogged march/cleansing ire. If you use hammer and healing sig without 30 points in this tree, they are weaker than tap water. Any profession that invests the maximum amount of points into one tree should see benefit from that tree. The next 30 points are now invested in burst mastery and crit damage. With the remaining 10 points they gain unsuspecting foe. Add to this sigil of impact/para and you have a complete package. If anything this is an example of perfect synergised build. We all asked for synergy..necro’s and warriors got it. However when it comes to build wars, this hammer Juggernaut will pretty much always lose to mediation guardian, evade thief or even a sword/axe-longbow ranger/halting strike mesmer played in a sound fashion. Some builds are the counter to others. The same as this warrior build crushes some and gives them little chance, there is other builds that crush this one. Half of good game play is paying attention to who is going to outclass you and who you can walk over. You ask for reasonable. You got what you wished for. Sometimes one has to concede you just can’t stand on a node and duke it out with everyone. It was no different in gw1..anti melee necro and blind bot ele’s simply walked over every warrior build..they were designed for that sole purpose. This is another aspect of good play..live to fight another day..or die trying..sometimes it is better to not die trying and go look for greener pastures.

There are no problems with the info that is given.

The class is a 10 in all areas, there is no drawback to playing. It is undoubtedly the most overpowered class in the game right now, and quite possibly since this game has started.

To try and refute this is futile, and shows lack of understanding regarding PVP.

Someone said it earlier in the thread – as a non-warrior player, I base my specs around being able to survive longer when I face a warrior. NOTE: not smash a warrior, but stay alive for longer.

Having to build a spec like this, in conjunction with the other fact (also mentioned earlier) that there are – on average – 1.5 warriors per team, just points to the necessity of something having to be done.

Whether this is balancing the warriors a bit or bringing other classes up (which leaves more room for error I feel), it is just so clear that something needs to be done.

Sure, what I say here is going to be shouted down as a l2p issue, but if you have to be an elite player with the right spec to beat a warrior then that is even more evidence supporting the opinion that warriors are OP.

I 100% agree that some people do rage too quickly based on misinformation though!

CntrlAltDefeat.1465:

Reasonably..because in one trait tree that is healing/toughness they have invested 30 points to get merciless hammer/adrenal health/dogged march/cleansing ire. If you use hammer and healing sig without 30 points in this tree, they are weaker than tap water. Any profession that invests the maximum amount of points into one tree should see benefit from that tree. The next 30 points are now invested in burst mastery and crit damage. With the remaining 10 points they gain unsuspecting foe. Add to this sigil of impact/para and you have a complete package. If anything this is an example of perfect synergised build. We all asked for synergy..necro’s and warriors got it. However when it comes to build wars, this hammer Juggernaut will pretty much always lose to mediation guardian, evade thief or even a sword/axe-longbow ranger/halting strike mesmer played in a sound fashion. Some builds are the counter to others. The same as this warrior build crushes some and gives them little chance, there is other builds that crush this one. Half of good game play is paying attention to who is going to outclass you and who you can walk over. You ask for reasonable. You got what you wished for. Sometimes one has to concede you just can’t stand on a node and duke it out with everyone. It was no different in gw1..anti melee necro and blind bot ele’s simply walked over every warrior build..they were designed for that sole purpose. This is another aspect of good play..live to fight another day..or die trying..sometimes it is better to not die trying and go look for greener pastures.

It isn’t 1vs1. 1vs1 plenty of builds can destroy this build (used to play PU-mesmer, and that is a strong counter as well). It is in a team-fight where multiple stuns on a short cd backed up with UF is a really un-fun combination, which require little to no setup, low risk and a huge reward.
Right now ppl are taking BS (isn’t it?), but warriors have equally potent counters for the burst-meat while maintaining the sturdiness and burst.

If you really mean what you say … then other builds of other classes should be able to do the same, right? In many cases they can’t. I can give you dozens of examples of builds where this is just not possible. The reason is, I suspect, that if the synergy was allowed, it would be too strong. I can’t say if the solution is to buff other classes synergies or to remove a bit of warriors synergies. I do know which one I prefer, as I dislike power-creep.

PS: Should be noted, that I suspect the issue is less important in team-pvp. But I only do soloQ … and the occasional hotjoin. And these two places (yes, also in soloQ) it is a real issue.

Divinity.8041:

There are no problems with the info that is given.

The class is a 10 in all areas, there is no drawback to playing. It is undoubtedly the most overpowered class in the game right now, and quite possibly since this game has started.

To try and refute this is futile, and shows lack of understanding regarding PVP.

10 in all, eh? Show me plz top tPvP teams with warrior bunkers. Or some top setup with mandatory 2+ warriors. We all seen 2+ ele or 2+ necro teams when they were on top of OP list. So, where is almighty warrior teams?

Just because there are no top teams playing a bunker warrior means he has no good build to do so? What about regen-banner or shout warrior then? That’s definitely not a weak bunker.

The only class that is probably a bit stronger is a necro, but that’s because necros can’t run away

Fact is warriors have abilities for very strong (don’t want to say the best):
Condi, Diret damage, Support (banner, shouts), control (stuns/roots) and tank build (selfheal, endure pain, Berserker stance, …)

Warriors are a bit to strong in everything and i think they need a small nerf here and there. Don’t get me wrong, other classes need nerfes too, just to get back to a “normal level” again

Rednik.3809:

Divinity.8041:

There are no problems with the info that is given.

The class is a 10 in all areas, there is no drawback to playing. It is undoubtedly the most overpowered class in the game right now, and quite possibly since this game has started.

To try and refute this is futile, and shows lack of understanding regarding PVP.

10 in all, eh? Show me plz top tPvP teams with warrior bunkers. Or some top setup with mandatory 2+ warriors. We all seen 2+ ele or 2+ necro teams when they were on top of OP list. So, where is almighty warrior teams?

Dont think there are a lot of dedicated top tpvp teams left. A lot of the real competitive players left the game already. Guess why the majority of them left?

OP Necro patch " aka condi meta " ,
how did devs solf this?
By making even more OP warrior " aka Stun meta"

Resulting in an even more unbalanced situation in pvp.

It’s really not even worth responding here. I have better things to do than argue with misinformed and/or bad players about class balance. You can argue with them all day Burr and they will just continue to spout off the same trash over and over again. They don’t listen to common sense or reason. The perfect example is that thief that used to spam the warrior forums, think his name was “Xcalibur” or something. The guy readily admitted in his posts previous to the warrior forums that he was a new player and wasn’t very good at thief, but he was dead set on believing warrior was overpowered even though his build was one of the best at killing warriors.

BurrTheKing.8571:

Arheundel.6451:

BurrTheKing.8571:

Kwll.1468:

Nice cherry picking. Because some foolish things are said about warriors doesn’t mean they don’t need to be to nerfed. My main problem with Warriors are too much damage with too much survivability. The stuns bother me as well but its not necessarily the idea that Warriors have them just that I believe access to so much hard CC is bad for the game. So explain to me reasonably why Warriors should be able to do so much damage and yet be fairly hard to kill at the same time. Conditions are fairly weak against them now and Healing Signet is a tad too good. Also, they are almost like the old elementalist in terms of escapability. If they want to run away most of the time they can.

You pretty much just became a part of the exaggeration/misinformation crowd. These “cherry picked” quotes came from threads that had a good number of views/responses, that’s why I picked them.

They have decent survivability, but they can’t mid bunker as well as a Guardian (those shamans banner regen Warriors crumble under any good team because they lack protection, blocks, and invulnerability that Guardians have) they also have some good damage against stunned foes, but they can’t spike nearly as well as a Thief or even Ele without giving up a significant amount of survivability.

Also, the ability to run away in TPvP isn’t necessarily the best thing to do in a team fight. You know why top players prefer Hambow over Mace/GS, because with bow you can still apply pressure while retreating. If you just peel away you just left your team high and dry and while you may live that means nothing if the rest of your team dies.

But it was a problem with eles..so why is it ok for warriors to have even more mobility?

Ele’s mobility didn’t leave any real way for you to counter it because they could use Mist Form and then use Ride the Lightning and there was little you could do about it. With Warrior just landing a simple cripple halves their mobility, hit them with an immobilize during a Rush and there’s not much they can do about it.

There were also many other factors with the old Ele that made them have little to no counter, current Warrior meta has plenty.

The cooldown on skills like rush need to be increased. I think that is the bigger problem.

Warrior is broken though. It is currently the only class that can create an unkillable build in a 1v1 situation. True, they won’t kill the other person either, but it still isn’t right.

Ashanor.5319:

It’s really not even worth responding here. I have better things to do than argue with misinformed and/or bad players about class balance. You can argue with them all day Burr and they will just continue to spout off the same trash over and over again. They don’t listen to common sense or reason. The perfect example is that thief that used to spam the warrior forums, think his name was “Xcalibur” or something. The guy readily admitted in his posts previous to the warrior forums that he was a new player and wasn’t very good at thief, but he was dead set on believing warrior was overpowered even though his build was one of the best at killing warriors.

1) Warrior IS overpowered. I recognized that fact 3 months ago. That’s more than I can say for the rest who didn’t latch on until meta finally shifted 1-2 months later.
2) I said I wasn’t top tier with S/D, never said I wasn’t good.
3) looks like you have no idea what you’re talking about bro since everything, literally everything I’ve said have been regurgitated at least 10 times over in the following months. With stun already (slightly) shaved.